Is anyone else here fascinated by pre-Russian Siberia?
>"Tall, green eyed, red haired" Yenisei Kyrgyz described by Tang Dynasty records
>Uighurs as pagan animist pastoralists before they became Muslim urban desert dwellers
>Gokturks, Rourans, Scythians (they were sacking Chinese cities before they went west), Black River Mohe, Jurchens screwing with the Chinese and conquering them every few centuries
What can /his/ tell me about it? Anyone got any good book recommendations? I've found material about this region particularly hard to come by. Also, any recommendations for books on pre-modern Central Asia?
It was one of the first big steppe hordes and as far as I know the chinese were eventually able to destroy them which made them go west and kill all the iranian steppe peoples in central asia claiming it for their own.
There are still plenty of people around like this. They weren't wiped out or anything. Ignorant people always assume they're "mixed" people, rather than unique gene pools of independently evolved phenotypes.
The Chinese actually did this with the Dzungars, they got sick of the fucking Dzungars cucking them all the time by raiding trade routes and dicking with China itself, so when they invaded what is now Xinjiang they literally gave a specific order to genocide them.
Apparently wiki even finally included an article about it recently:
"Qianlong had to issue his orders to carry out the "extermination" multiple times to the military officers since some of them were reluctant to carry out the slaughter, some of them were punished for sparing Dzungars and letting them flee such as such as Agui and Hadada, while others who participated in the slaughter were rewarded like Tangkelu and Zhaohui (Jaohui). The order to slaughter the Dzungars was distasteful to generals who were unwilling to carry out the massacres and they had to be continually ordered by Qianlong to slaughter them.
Young Dzungar men were especially singled out for slaughter by the Qianlong Emperor, loyalist Khalkhas received Dzungar Khoit women as slaves from Chebudengzhabu because the young men were killed on Qianlong's orders, and orders to deprive the starving Dzungars of food were given by the Emperor, Manchu Bannermen and loyalist Mongols received Dzungars women, children, and old men as bondservants while their Dzungar identity was wiped out.
The Qianlong Emperor issued his commanders with direct orders to "massacre" the Zunghars and "show no mercy". Rewards were given to those who carried out the extermination and orders were given for young men to be slaughtered while women were taken as the spoils of war. The Qing extirpated Zunghar identity from the remaining enslaved Zunghar women and children. Orders were given to "completely exterminate the Zunghar tribes, and this successful genocide by the Qing left Zungharia mostly unpopulated and vacant."
>dfw Qing dynasty saved Muslim Uyghurs from extermniation by Dzughurs
The Qings literally turned the boys of their opponents into women.
>Yaqub Beg and his son Ishana's corpses were "burned to cinders" in full public view. This angered the population in Kashgar, but Qing troops quashed a rebellious plot by Hakim Khan. Surviving members of Yaqub Beg's family included his four sons, four grandchildren (two grandsons and two granddaughters), and four wives. They either died in prison in Lanzhou, Gansu or were killed by the Qing government. His sons Yima Kuli, K'ati Kuli, Maiti Kuli, and grandson Aisan Ahung were the only survivors alive in 1879. They were all underage children at that time. They were put on trial and sentenced to an agonizing death if they were found to be complicit in their father's rebellious "sedition". If they were innocent, they were to be sentenced to castration and servitude as eunuch slaves to the Qing troops. Afterwards, when they reached the age of 11 years, they would be handed over to the Imperial Household to be executed or castrated. In 1879, it was confirmed that the sentence of castration was carried out, Yaqub Beg's son and grandsons were castrated by the Chinese court in 1879 and turned into eunuchs to work in the Imperial Palace.
>you will never tour the Russian Empire and see how it was before the collapse
>not touring an enormous inland territory during the 19th or early 20th century
>when land travel consisted of shitty horses, crappy primitive cars and slow as dick trains
I'm ok with that.
> In 1207 his eldest son Jochi subjugated the Siberian forest people, the Uriankhai, the Oirats, Barga, Khakas, Buryats, Tuvans, Khori-Tumed, and Kyrgyz.
East Asian Punishment for you.
>You fucked up = Your family fucked up.
But this is due to the fact that the Asians did expect sons to take up the conflicts of their fathers if they were men enough.
>you will never participate in an Ainu bear ritual honoring your ancestors before riding off with your friends to fight off the Japanese encroachers
xiognus weren't exterminated. a theory is that they branched into turkics, koreans and japanese after they got defeated by the chinese and got torn in a civil war
although there are people that dispute that, as its a theory based on linguistic similarities
You know how Russia has a bunch of little republics in the area? It would probably look something like that (although in their pre-Soviet relocation positions) with the remaining land split between them.
Would probably take until modern times to actually exert control. It's vast, relatively sparse and a hostile environment.
Even Russia does a pretty shoddy job of 'controlling' it. I wouldn't be surprised if parts flip to China in a century or so.
As for what we'd see PRE-1900s (where everything would change anyway)... A larger Mongolia with it's Mongolic brethren most certainly, and perhaps a Korea expanded northwards a little bit (power vacuums and all)... Otherwise I assume a patchwork of large states similar to Mongolia (i.e. few cities, largely nomadic populace)