>"How did a small backwater nation at the end of the

I'll agree but we should say that we owe it to greek and christian philosophy both, they have been intertwined from the beginning.

>>531830
8===D

>>531830

I like how you started off with Christainity and Judaism and then switched straight off to Christainity, while posting a picture of a mosque. Also, skipping over enormous intellectual, military, political, etc. events and just chalking it up to 'Christainity' while demonstrating nothing of the sort.


4/10 personally enjoyed, despite knowing it was stupid.

>>531830
It was a stroke of luck that those two caught on. It could've been any of the dozens of religions people concoct while under duress.

>>531839
>and then switched straight off to Christainity
But what you don't realize is that Christianity and Judaism were basically the same thing until this century. It was Christians who made all of that Old Testament art and it was Christians who believed the Old Testament stories such as Job, Noah, Adam and Moses.
>Also, skipping over enormous intellectual, military, political, etc. events and just chalking it up to 'Christainity' while demonstrating nothing of the sort.
Economic example: Christians weren't allowed to charge interest and commit usury so they payed Jews in the middle ages to do it for them.

Buddah > Jesus

>>531830
God exists. Religion is stupid.

>>531872
See this is the point, there WERE hundreds of little cults all around the Roman empire. Buddhism and Hinduism was already known. But these never took off, they never became the national religions, adhered to by the vast majority.

So what then? Why did this man Jesus Christ become so famous and his teaching and the culture he lived in became the basis for all morality for the 2000 years?

>>531880
>But what you don't realize is that Christianity and Judaism were basically the same thing until this century.

Except for the myriad differences in theology, ritual practice, general belief, and how it dealt with outsider,s especially outside religions, yeah, I guess they were pretty similar.

>It was Christians who made all of that Old Testament art and it was Christians who believed the Old Testament stories such as Job, Noah, Adam and Moses.

And they believe in them in a radically different fashion than Jews did. The role of Satan in Job is very different in the two faiths. The importance of Moses is radically so. Et cetra.

>Economic example: Christians weren't allowed to charge interest and commit usury so they payed Jews in the middle ages to do it for them.

And how does that imply a European advantage over the generally non-Judeo Christian rest of the world?

How would the Milan forge not have developed (and thus its consequent enormous role in armor manufacture, giving Europeans a huge advantage over the rest of the world that was never really responded to) if Europe remained pagan? Would they have suddenly stopped developing mathematically in the 15th century onwards? Did religion create the improvements in sailing vessels that allowed exploration into the Western Hemisphere and long range trade with places like India and China without going through a dozen, probably warring polities?


Blithely going into reductionist mode and crediting it all to Christianity is retarded.

>attributing the accomplishments of men to God

sounds like your typical christcuk

>>531880
Christianity and Judaism have never been the same. Jews and Christians have rejected each other from the beginning of Christianity as a Jewish heresy until recently, when interfaith dialogue became somewhat popular.

>>531904
>Except for the myriad differences in theology, ritual practice, general belief, and how it dealt with outsider,s especially outside religions, yeah, I guess they were pretty similar.
You're comparing modern Christians to modern Jews. The two are completely different. Jews observe the Talmud today but in Jesus time they did not because it wasn't yet written and finalized. If a Christian from the middle ages lived in Israel around the time of Jesus, he would be considered a Jew by his belief system.
>And they believe in them in a radically different fashion than Jews did. The role of Satan in Job is very different in the two faiths. The importance of Moses is radically so.
Again same situation, people in the pasts beliefs in these figures was more in line with ancient understandings than they are today.
>Did religion create the improvements in sailing vessels that allowed exploration into the Western Hemisphere and long range trade with places like India and China without going through a dozen, probably warring polities?
Religion created societies which allowed men to seek the good things in life instead of killing one another hoping to please their various barbaric gods.

>>531930
In Early Christian times, Jews who were known as Christians were still Jews and proudly made it known they were. This was the time when being a Jew was considered being of a distinct ethnicity and not merely a religious label as politically correct people will have you believe today. What you must remember is that Jesus was considered the Jewish messiah by these people and they were simply advancing their understanding of the Jewish faith through Jesus teachings.

>>531949

>You're comparing modern Christians to modern Jews.

No, I'm comparing ancient and medieval Christainity to contemporary Judaism. I'm looking at the beliefs in messianism, the beliefs about conversion and prosletyzation, the manner of sabbath observance, their thoughs as to what sin was, and what they thought the the interaction between God and Man

>Jews observe the Talmud today but in Jesus time they did not because it wasn't yet written and finalized.

You have no idea what Judaism is, do you? Like, at all? You do realize that a good chunk of the Mishnah, the foundation book of the Talmud, is statements of Rabbis who were around before Jesus, right? That Hillel came up with several of the Jesus statements, like the golden rule one, and a good deal before?

> If a Christian from the middle ages lived in Israel around the time of Jesus, he would be considered a Jew by his belief system.

He would be considered either a pagan idolater or a heretic, what with the whole rejection of the Jewish belief of the Shema and venerating a false messiah as a god.

>Again same situation, people in the pasts beliefs in these figures was more in line with ancient understandings than they are today.

Once again, a swing and a miss. You see it all the way in the New Testament that there's a Christian belief that Satan is in opposition to God. No such concept exists or has ever existed in Judaism, where he's an angel in God's service and occupying a role of kind of a prosecuting attorney.

>Religion created societies which allowed men to seek the good things in life instead of killing one another hoping to please their various barbaric gods.

Are you seriously claiming that Christainity didn't lead to religious conflict? Are you retarded? Religion creates an in and several out groups, and formalizes their differences. Christianity no more or less so than others. Where the fuck do you think all those heresy stamping wars came from?

>>531962

>In Early Christian times, Jews who were known as Christians were still Jews and proudly made it known they were

And they were looked down upon and in many cases prosecuted by other Jews for their heresy/apostasy.

>>531898
Morality, lol. Are for real or just trolling?

>>531974
>No, I'm comparing ancient and medieval Christainity to contemporary Judaism.
Doesn't sound like you are.
>statements of Rabbis who were around before Jesus, right?
According to the Talmud, a book which says Jesus is boiling in Hell in a vat of Semen. What evidence do you have that the Talmud, any of the talmud was written before Jesus?
>No such concept exists or has ever existed in Judaism
Except, the entire New Testament talks about Satan being an evil force and the people who wrote that were Jews themselves. Where did they get the idea?
>Are you seriously claiming that Christainity didn't lead to religious conflict?
Christianity made European nations who had been fighting for centuries unite together and drive back the muslim invaders. Such a thing had never happened before.

>>531976
Until the tables turned and it was the Jews who were the ones being looked down on.
>>531987
Is this a comment? Do you disagree with something I said?

>>532035

>According to the Talmud, a book which says Jesus is boiling in Hell in a vat of Semen.

Actually, it doesn't say that. It says that a man who performed a necromantic rite (forbidden) reported that. Given the structure of the Gemara, it doesn't "Say" anything.".

>What evidence do you have that the Talmud, any of the talmud was written before Jesus?

You should read what I said more carefully. It's a compilation of earlier statements. Many of the Mishnaic rabbis are from a period far older than Jesus.

>Except, the entire New Testament talks about Satan being an evil force and the people who wrote that were Jews themselves. Where did they get the idea?

Probably from the same place they got the idea that Jesus was God, which certainly isn't Jewish idea. And it's not like they were isolated; by the time the NT was written, you had pretty extensive contact with both the Hellenic and Roman world, so you have all sorts of avenues for new ideas.

>Christianity made European nations who had been fighting for centuries unite together and drive back the muslim invaders.

There weren't any nations in those periods, just feudal conglomerations. And they didn't "unite together to drive back the Muslim invaders" Tours was a pure Carolingian expedition. The stopping of the Arab thrusts through Turkey was done by the Byzantines, alone. Unity, especially religious unity, had nothing to do with it.


And if they had been "fighting for centuries", well after the introduction of Christainity, it can't really be said to be the catalyst of their unity.

>Such a thing had never happened before

Are you stupid? Peoples have repulsed invaders since the dawn of time. And Christianity created its own sets of in and out groups invading each other. The Lollards, the Arians, the Hussites, and there was that whole big thing around Luther's teachings that culminated in the 30 years war.

>>532039

>Until the tables turned and it was the Jews who were the ones being looked down on.

Yes, but it demonstrates that even in the earliest periods of Christain existence, there was a notion that they weren't Jews, at least not "proper" Jews.

And you can see from the NT writings, especially Paul's stuff, that there was a pull away from Judaism, almost from day 1.

(as an aside, in your post up here>>532035
if you want to claim that the Mishnah's composition post-Jesus means the notions themselves are post-Jesus, then you'd have to, by the same logic, note that Paul's epistles are older than the Gospels, so therefore Paul predates Jesus; which would be utter nonsense.)

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Jesus has always been a metaphor for saintly conduct as a protector and not an instigator. Why idolize him if you're not willing to become him?

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>While at the same time other religions were demanding their followers to sacrifice their children and worship fire and use magic to protect you from evil spirits. But Christianity and Judaism were teaching about virtues, charity, love, faith, the things which ease suffering and make communities strong.

>>532063
>there was a notion that they weren't Jews, at least not "proper" Jews.
I don't know where you get that idea from. Seeing as that being a Jew in ancient times was an ethnicity and not a religious label. People couldn't "convert" to judaism in ancient times. You were either born a Jew a descendant of Abraham or you weren't Jewish.

>>532105
just another christian revisionist thread, move on.

>>532112

>I don't know where you get that idea from.

The whole ostracism and persecution thing. Which part of that is hard to grasp?

>. Seeing as that being a Jew in ancient times was an ethnicity and not a religious label.

Completely untrue, given the sectarian divides in Jewish society (Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes) which one moved to and through via belief, not birth.

>People couldn't "convert" to judaism in ancient times.

Who are Jethro, Ruth, and Antipater the Idumean? I mean fuck, it got a lot of flack even at the time, but John Hyrcanus of the later Hasmonean dynasty was forcibly converting pople in the provinces he conquered.

>You were either born a Jew a descendant of Abraham or you weren't Jewish.

Please get a basic, basic knowledge of history.

>>532157
>Completely untrue, given the sectarian divides in Jewish society (Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes) which one moved to and through via belief, not birth.
Those are more political persuasions seeing as they lived in a theocracy.
>Who are Jethro, Ruth, and Antipater the Idumean?
Irrelevant people
>Please get a basic, basic knowledge of history
That's why I'm here :^)

>>532197

>Those are more political persuasions seeing as they lived in a theocracy.


Which is why the totally secular client kings were in charge (or at least as in charge as the Romans allowed them to be) during the ministry of Jesus.

And a lot of their political divisions were based in differing religious doctrine. There's no direct political power struggle involved in questions of law such as what properly constitutes a lulav, which had the Sadduccees and the Pharisees at it for literally decades.

>Irrelevant people

The founder of the Jewish court system, an ancestress to David, and a Hasmonean king were irrelevant people? Who exactly counts as relevant then?


>That's why I'm here

One doubts this. But if you're seriously interested, go skim through the Mishnah, and then pick up Josephus's antiquities.

>While at the same time other religions were demanding their followers to sacrifice their children and worship fire and use magic to protect you from evil spirits. But Christianity and Judaism were teaching about virtues, charity, love, faith, the things which ease suffering and make communities strong. And what are left with today?

This is one of the reasons why people laugh at christfags

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/religious-parents-offended-by-harry-potter-on-school-syllabus-as-it-trivialises-magic-a6775516.html

>>531830
I think the Greeks did more than what Christianity has ever done for humanity.

>>532296
And by Greeks I mean philosophy.

>>532281
To be fair, I'd be offended to see Harry Potter on a school syllabus.

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>>531830

Your entire argument is a list of the things you admire about Christianity, which you attribute to Abrahamic religion's success. If anything you've given a rather convenient analogy for Abrahamic religion's militant application of non sequitur.

>>532316

Kek, true that.

But if fairness the headline is a bit misleading, the books is just in the library stock, not the syllabus, if you read the article.

And I assume that your problem with it isn't that you believe in witchcraft.

>>531949
>Religion created societies which allowed men to seek the good things in life instead of killing one another hoping to please their various barbaric gods.

Excuse me, what? Europe remained in a damn near constant state of war even after its Christianization. Plenty of it was religiously motivated too (the crusades against the Cathars and the 30 Year War spring to mind).

>>531830
>While at the same time other religions were demanding their followers to sacrifice their children and worship fire and use magic to protect you from evil spirits. But Christianity and Judaism were teaching about virtues, charity, love, faith, the things which ease suffering and make communities strong.

Buddhism? Zoroastrianism? Manicheaism?

>>531898
A couple of emperors converted and then the meme started.