>>531359 Just reminger, you shall do not try do a child from a mummy, do not attempt clone a child from dried mummy flesh, a faith to eternal life of ancient Egypt, land of Tameri should be not proved, Lord and Messrs of jew-serf should be rest in peace, et cetera and so on and so forth
>>531534 >>531551 I conflated written works with spoken language like ge'ez with the Ethiopian Orthodox church. However an oft read remark I see regarding the sole Coptic claim to ancient Egypt is that the language written or spoken is a mark of some supposed purity
>>532345 Do you know that Beja are therefore not native to Sudan and are Native Egyptians then? They've lived along the coast of the Red Sea and have taken up herding, what's so hard for you to understand.
>>532384 R1b isn't European, it's neolithic. >>532382 Modern borders do not coincide with ancient ones all the time and Beta are nomadic now. We also know a large population still reside in coastal Egypt and among the oasis of the south
>>532719 >I don't understand why everyone seems to think every conquest is concluded by genocide. Not everyone, just niggers. They believe that by the time the Fayum portraits were painted the original egyptians had already been genocided by greeks.
>>532771 No, they fled south, and the Fayum portraits are of Romans, not native Egyptians, I'm abit tired of people using those portraits as a weak argument of someone Romans being ethnically closest to Ancient Egyptians, biggest farce one would tell themselves.
>>533434 >>533424 >>533072 If you actually look up Afrocentricism in Academia you quickly realize it's merely a school of thought that counters this notion that says everything came from Arabs and is founded on archeology. >>532944 I have people in my family with that hair. Many Ethiopians and Somali do.
>>533556 >If you actually look up Afrocentricism in Academia you quickly realize it's merely a school of thought that counters this notion that says everything came from Arabs and is founded on archeology. I know that, but I'm in this forum were semantically it refers to Blacks claiming to be all people.
> I have people in my family with that hair. Many Ethiopians and Somali do. You're a stupid cunt, get a haircut, and fuck off.
>>534509 >Indo-European is southwest asian, No it's not, it's central asian you stupid nigger.
>The only European y haplogroup is I1, Oh great, you're one of those "MUH PURE UNADULTERED HUNTER GATHERER ANCESTRY" niggers. You do know that the original hunter gatherers of Europe were basically abo-tier in terms of intelligence and had dark skin, right?
But actually, a lot of Egyptians are just as close an ethnically the same. The only difference is they started identifying as Arabs due to Islam. So I'd say Copts are the closest because they identify as Copts (which is just Arabic for "Egyptians") rather than Arabs.
>>534521 Its foreign to Europe before the neolithic, it's therefore not European and likely Pharaoh's marker came from ancient neolithic protofarmers like Natufians or early farmers from the Middle East.
>>534730 Can't give you any right now, feel free to disbelieve if you want to.
But both peer-reviewed studies and amateur projects (and they are decent, generally) agree that peninsular and sub-Saharan admixture goes: non-Arabic speaking non-Muslim -> Arabic-speaking non-Muslim -> Arabic-speaking Muslim, which is exactly what you'd expect anyway.
>>534762 As I said, I don't care if you believe it. That's how it is though, the slave trade and the peninsular populations affected Arabic-speaking Muslims more than the rest; which is perfectly understandable.
What's funny is African Americans wouldn't even be related to the ancient egyptian's even if they were all black. African americans are from the west coast of Africa. It's like a bunch of Polish Americans trying to say they wuz the kings of Ireland 4 thousand years ago. Plus most African american's have white in them too.
>>533062 Afrocentrism isn't really popular anymore.
The only notable academic Afrocentrist was Cheikh Anita Diop, and people kind of respectively ignored his "Egyptians were all black mmmkay?" rambles due to the legitimately brilliant scholarship that he provided elsewhere.
You will be very, very hard-pressed to find a modern Egyptologist who claims something as self-assured and as presentist as "the Egyptians were black".
Haplogroup E1b1b is the one of the main and native Haplogroups in North and North East Africa, this corresponds to the geographic presence of Afro Asiatic languages. During the Bronze Age there was a presence of Haplogroup J bearers in the Canaan and seeping into Egypt and likewise it is likely there was a seeping of Haplogroup E1b1b into Mesopotamia if not already present in the Canaan. Intermingling of these peoples likely occurred in these areas probably among the less affluent social classes such as the nomadic Bedouins while the ruling aristocracy living in the fortified city centers probably preferred to keep a purer gene pool. Given the probability that bronze metallurgy was introduced to Egypt by Mesopotamians, it's not unreasonable to imagine a scenario; with variance throughout history, where a ruling class with Caucasian/Mesopotamian genes ruled over a native Afro-Asiatic majority (and whose to say that arranged marriages didn't result in the opposite taking place among Sumerians or elsewhere in Mesopotamia.) The Huteimi and Solluba tribes in the Arabian Peninsula are believed to be the remaining descendants of the Paleolithic hunters who existed in the area before the spread of Semitic peoples in the Arabian Peninsula. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huteimi
>>539440 >Hutemi were conquered by Cushitic and Nilo-saharans Source? I would attribute the Cushitic element in southern Arabia to contact and trade across the Gulf of Aden. You have the first evidence of South Semitic language speakers arising in East Africa around the 8th century B.C. Mehri and Soqotri are classified as South Semitic languages meaning they are likely related to the ancient languages of Saba' and Hadramawt.
>>539461 The important thing is that they were likely there before the people that would later become prominent in the area. It also points to the reason for the current genetic make up of the Near East being a mixture of Haplogroup J and E1b1b with higher presence of J outside of Africa and a higher prominence of E in Africa.
>>539583 Which one? If Afro-Asiatic languages originated in the Near East why are most of it's families found in Africa? Also you have a universal presence of Haplogroup E1b1b among all Afro-Asiatic language speakers, the same can't be said for Haplogroup J which includes both Afro-Asiatics and people from the Caucuses.
>In particular, M173-bearing chromosomes in Europe are considered to delineate an ancient expansion from Asia during the Upper Paleolithic, ∼30,000 years ago (Semino et al. 2000; Underhill et al. 2001b; Wells et al. 2001). It is quite reasonable to hypothesize that an ancient Asian gene pool was the source of both the European (haplotype 117b) and Cameroonian (haplotype 117) M173 chromosomes. The fact that haplotype 117 is rare or absent in Asia (P.A.U., unpublished data) or the Middle East (present study), suggests that a large portion of its microsatellite diversity in Cameroon accumulated within the African continent after the proposed back-migration event, probably as a consequence of a population expansion. The coalescence age of the African haplotype 117, which we estimated as 4,100 years (95% CI 2,400–8,060 years), could thus represent a date for such an expansion and a lower limit for the time of entry into Africa. The occurrence of the latter event may not necessarily be recent.
>The occurrence of the latter event may not necessarily be recent.
>Although anthropological evidence indicates recent movements between western Asia and Africa by pastoralists (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994), the phylogeography and diversity patterns of M173-associated lineages suggest an earlier demographic history. The absence in northern Cameroon of Y haplotypes affiliated with the recolonization of Europe following the Last Glacial Maximum, as well as the subsequent Neolithic transition (Semino et al. 2000), is consistent with this interpretation.
Cool bro, thanks for sharing, honestly. This thread is goddamn toxic but this makes the most sense.
Old reliefs give kings really sharp facial features somewhat similar to Europeans but it just seems too far-reaching an assumption. They had negroid priestesses everywhere in their reliefs and papyri, I'm not sure how important it is to really distinguish race at that point. Some say that the Ethiopians had hints of Egyptian culture in theirs, and even though it's possible that the two were mildly peaceful, it's also possible that skirmishes led to Egyptian art getting taken back to Ethiopia.
>>539943 >"Happily the face, which had been plastered over with pitch at the time of embalming, did not suffer at all from this rough treatment, and appeared intact when the protecting mask was removed. Its appearance does not answer to our ideal of the conqueror. His statues, though not representing him as a type of manly beauty, yet give him refined, intelligent features, but a comparison with the mummy shows that the artists have idealised their model. The forehead is abnormally low, the eyes deeply sunk, the jaw heavy, the lips thick, and the cheek-bones extremely prominent; the whole recalling the physiognomy of Thûtmosis II, though with a greater show of energy."
Art of Egyptians is not based on their physical reality, they are idealized forms.
>was it not in Ethiopia that Horus had gained his first victories over Typhon?
It is my opinion that, when Egyptians fought foreigners, they saw it as fighting lesser reflections of themselves, in some kind of spirituo-mystical conquest in tandem with a real one. Divination, if you will.
All throughout that article it mentions that Ethiopia and Egypt were bitter enemies, along with Egypt and Syria. You're telling me that they once had a king who basically would have to have descended from southern Africa, with whom they always had bitter rivalries? Keep dreaming.
>>540096 I'm implying that there is no way a man of Ethiopian descent was King. The only black men of that time were being watched from afar by the King; in the first article you posted it specifically says the King kept his eye on the *race* of southern Africa.
Elsewhere also there are depictions of the King destroying invaders from Cush, all of whom were black. The Egyptians were highly nationalistic, and never even let Greeks into their land, despite being intellectually equal.
Thuthmose III may not have even been related to Thuthmose II, and they were both appointed King in a period of crisis, after the reign of Hatshepsut. Thuthmose III attributed numerous inscriptions to his predecessor when none were appropriate.
Thuthmose III's reign led right into Akhenaton's reign, and his reign was so bad that Egyptians destroyed his inscription everywhere, synonymous with the most damning action for a soul in the afterlife.
To say that all Kings in Egypt were "exaggerated" in their artwork just because one King decided to make his mark in his own selfish way, does not mean it was tradition, as you implied in your original post.
>>540124 You're speaking as though Egyptians had no shared ancestry with surrounding populations and also we know King Tut and most other mummies do not share features with the generic aesthetic of statues or reliefs.
Thuthmose III was a builder, his accomplishments were centered around the support of great architectural and artistic works and I have found no significant works that question his paternity with any certainty and he was not appointed after hatshepsut, he was Co-regent for 20 years before taking over from his power hungry stepmother.
In the end he erased much of her presence and is also not responsible for Akhenaton, the has nothing to do with his reign.
>>540175 Not enough to be straight up black, no, I doubt it.
You missed the point of bringing Akhenaton up, that time was a time of temporary decline, of which Thuthmose II and III were a part. Considering whether or not Thuthmose was black is irrelevant because he was a shit King to begin with, apparently.
>>540360 No they dont. Egyptians identify as Egyptian. Arabs are anyone from the Arabian Peninsula (and even then a Bedouin would probably laugh at you because you're confusing those city folk for the true Arabs, the Bedouin)
>>540622 Well, that is not entirely accurate..........
> The name is derived from the name Aodhán, which is a pet form of Aodh. It can be used as a masculine or feminine given name. The personal name Aodh means "fiery" and/or "bringer of fire" and was the name of a Celtic sun god (see Aed)
> Celtic sun god
There are many names that are "native", especially family names.
>>540361 >>540360 Coptic diaspora is responsible for perpetuating this meme. They want to distance themselves from Arabs and paint themselves as special snowflakes so they claim the " we wuz pharoes n' shit and Muslims are all Ayyrabs "meme.
>>545226 Skin color denoted social status, health status, and sometimes age in many painted Egyptian works. Not actual skin color. You can see this by the changing skin tones of Amenhoteps mother from one to another going from not married to married to having a son to death
>>545919 If we're going by art alone, there's also ones like that depicting blacks in a position of power. On top of that art is what Afro-centrist use to implicate Egypt had black kings and queens. Which is why art alone can be a bit shaky when talking about certain civilizations.
Pic-related, is the most common image use, though Egyptians did have wigs. I'm using this to emphasize, niggas be trippin.
>>545943 That sculpture is clearly a person of Cushitic affinity. Due to the various shifts throughout history; there's no telling how many ethnic groups can be found among Egypt's rulers ie. Asiatics, Nubians, Persians, Greeks, Romans.
>A carving of a Nubian captive adorns the handle of a walking stick recovered from the tomb of King Tut. The placement of a Nubian captive on King Tut's walking stick is typical of Ancient Egyptian imagery which often depicts kings in their role as conqueror.
>>536208 Genetic analysis of modern Egyptians reveals that they have paternal lineages common to indigenous North-East African populations primarily (Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco), and to Middle Eastern peoples to a lesser extent—these lineages would have spread during the Neolithic and were maintained by the predynastic period.
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