>>530246 The Bantu with their iron tools just had this need to move EVERYWHERE that didn't originally have them, and bring their tsetse fly resistant cattle with them. That's why the Khoikhoi have cattle.
>>530393 >White South Africans Really it was the Boers more than anything. Without the Afrikaner nationalism that caused Apartheid, you wouldn't have had the whole clusterfuck of terrorism that South Africa was dealing with all that time.
>>530235 Very simplified >>530246 There was more than one migration with more than one set of crops >>530247 No they aren't >>530256 They aren't tsetse resistant at all, they aren't even tsetse tolerant. >>530263 Khoisan have always been there
>>530165 The failure of Xhosa and Zulu languages to linguistically conceptualize and consider eurocentric concepts (objective time, obligation, precision, mathematics, deliberate long term foresight) essential to the maintenance and furtherance of sophisticated, capitalist societies previously overseen by European-descended dominant minorities.
>>530555 As even a third-language Zulu speaker, I can assure you that people do not use the same words for "number" and "numerous".
Sentiments such as gratitude and loyalty are common in Zulu language and culture. Perhaps the most common and clichéd idiom in Zulu is "Umuntu ngumuntu ngabantu", which means "one is a person through other people", and is the basic idiom underlining the idea of Ubuntu, which is common to many – not all, but many – Southern African cultures. It's such an ingrained idiom that it's almost an asinine thing to say, like invoking "the Golden Rule". Fuck, even "hello" (sawubona) translates to "I see you". Communication in Zulu and Xhosa (the two African languages I have knowledge in) is based on reciprocation – it's probably true for related languages too.
Honestly, who the fuck looks in a dictionary probably not even a proper Zulu dictionary, just an awful simulacrum of one on the internet, and tries to infer the mental and cultural state of millions of people from it. Racists are so fucking thick it makes my head spin.
According to this logic white people can only understand abstract concepts as "pulled-away taken-ins" and are thus incapable of grasping idioms on any meaningful level. Their closest word for "understand" means "to grab hold of."
The word "rape" used to just mean "to seize".
>It appears that the Zulu word for “future”—isikhati—is the same as the word for time, as well as for space. >Realistically, this means that these concepts probably do not exist in Zulu
It appears that the Latin word for "space" spatium is the same word as for time. Realistically, this means that these concepts probably did not exist in Ancient Roman thought.
>>530653 Well that's in the Sahara, while certainly the position of Mande within Niger-Congo is tenuous we know proto-mande is from the regions effected by the neolithic subpluvial given their root words include goat and cow.
Also why do you know Zulu in Kenya if Kikuyu and Luo would be much more useful?
>>530616 His argument reaches when it makes claims regarding morality and social functioning. His statements regarding mathematics, measurement, and linguistic precision are interesting if true.
Anon, are you suggesting that language is NOT a reflection of the culture that commands it's use and the social conditions in which a culture has developed? Why would you need words to deliberately discuss technology, numerosity, and measurement if you do not need to routinely employ such concepts like your life depends on it?
I am only making the observation that non-settled and settled people with minimal infrastructure and division of labor have a much better option when times get tough--they cut their losses, head elsewhere, and go about business as usual.
Settled, agrarian people in not having this option would necessarily be under pressures to develop alternative, ultimately culturally inscribed means of optimizing the limited resources at hand. This would necessarily and categorically imply a difference in how these people considered and verbally denoted how capital was mobilized and optimally utilized. Far and away, this was a problem seldom faced by subsaharan Africans to the degree that it impacted cultures emerging in less temperate climates.
Not them but >>530726 >Settled, agrarian people in not having this option would necessarily be under pressures to develop alternative, ultimately culturally inscribed means of optimizing the limited resources at hand. This would necessarily and categorically imply a difference in how these people considered and verbally denoted how capital was mobilized and optimally utilized. Far and away, this was a problem seldom faced by subsaharan Africans to the degree that it impacted cultures emerging in less temperate climates.
Bantu by definition are settled agrarians, agro-pastoralists sometimes but mostly settled farmers.
>>530716 >Also why do you know Zulu in Kenya if Kikuyu and Luo would be much more useful? Personal affection for the Nguni cultures. I live in Bongistan half the year now anyway. >>530726 >Anon, are you suggesting that language is NOT a reflection of the culture that commands it's use and the social conditions in which a culture has developed?
Linguists see languages as grammars, systems of rules according to which people can form complex expressions (sentences, phrases, words) out of smaller, discrete parts (morphemes, phonemes). The more solid versions of the Sapir–Whorf hypothesis are about how grammar, not words, influence thought. People consciously invent new words or adopt foreign ones all the time, in an offhand manner without any effort, which enormously weakens the "they can't think X because they have no word for X" argument. People, on the other hand, rarely consciously invent new grammatical tenses for their language, much less invent new obligatory grammatical rules for things like evidentiality.
Besides, Bantu cultures are overwhelmingly agricultural and have been since their origin.
>>530743 Same logic applies. Even as settled peoples, they were not under the same pressures as other agricultural societies to intensively optimize the efforts of their labor. In a temperate climate, I am never too afraid of falling short in agricultural output because the opportunity to forage productively is abundantly clear, even if it is not my primary means of subsistence. In an intemperate climate, the costs of failing to accurately estimate and maximize crop/ livestock yields is much more dire and unavoidable.
>>530776 >they were not under the same pressures as other agricultural societies to intensively optimize the efforts of their labor Y'know aside from vermin, drought, and disease >In a temperate climate, I am never too afraid of falling short in agricultural output because the opportunity to forage productively is abundantly clear M8 africa was not like the nature documentaries
Those massive herds you see on the telly are the result of humans dying off in the late 19th century because of crop failures and cattle disease
For most of history nutrition was hard to come by until southeast asian and new world crops came
>>530776 So I don't think people who've never gone to Africa understand this but the majority of the farmers and historic populations in Africa have the same issues as temperate farmers historically in Europe.
There are in fact seasons, there is the need to store food, there is the need to increase fertility, there are rampant issues of sub-par soil, there are pests, crop failures and droughts.
Tsetse, quelea, striga among many other pests and parasites.
Historically we know crop failure and climatic fluctuations were a very common occurrence throughout Europe, we also know the limitations of livestock before modern breeding came about to increase output or the limitations of soil fertility before crop rotation became the continental norm.
>>530770 >People consciously invent new words or adopt foreign ones all the time, in an offhand manner without any effort, which enormously weakens the "they can't think X because they have no word for X" argument.
Sure, novel words or concepts for that matter will always be adopted if they provide some greater utility than previously existed in their absence. What is really the question here regards those factors impacting whether a novel element of grammar is found to confer greater utility. This is in large part determined by the culture itself--it's means of subsistence, climatic context, etc. Culture, language, and the cognitions they normatively permit reciprocally inform each other. As much as there is variability between specific languages, it is naive to assume that there is not equivalent variability in psycholinguistic preparedness to consider some cognitive schemas representative a specific, given language that is not the speaker's.
>>530555 What this author humorously fails to realize is that most of the "backwards traits" he describes natives typically demonstrating in his presence were likely in direct response to his own odious bigotry stinking up the joint. What a self-involved, delusional, racist twat.
>>530165 Ask Zulu king goodwill zwelithini "The official king of South Africa’s Zulu tribe has announced that that country was economically, militarily, and socially better under white Afrikaner rule—and that history will judge blacks as only having destroyed everything that they had inherited from the white government." Not trying to be a stormfag but it's pretty true, also whites are being discriminated and dislocated big-time in SA
>>531698 He is bitter over his loss of power, the White government gave the royal family the control over their people in the bantustans but as apartheid ended they've slowly done away win them.
His political part no longer rules the province and although he gets millions of Rand annually he is always in want for more.
His opinion is not one any should take seriously, he cares only of the acknowledgement of his prestige and he'd take it from anyone including a racist government that subjugated his people in a way he never experienced.
>>531867 >>531875 Well when you don't put funds for the non-white majority in regards to infrastructure, education or quality of life as well as pay non-white workers pennies on the dollar your nation would do well too
>>531853 Some white people thought seperating whites and blacks was for the better for both races(it probably was) and enforced it with good intentions. This is now the fault of all white people and all evil white crackas should be punished even if they had nothing to do with it. >People deserve to be treated like shit intentionally ever but only if they're white. You're not even leftypol anymore /Americanstyleliberalismandfeminismpol/ pls go
>>531911 Again, many didn't fuck them over. They don't just discriminate against whites who were adults during apartheid. It ended 22 years ago, you can never have even been born under National Party rule, but if you're white then you're officially racially discriminated against in employment by the state. So no, many don't fucking deserve in you pinko scum.
I would disagree they were "fucked over". The blacks of South Africa were far better off in South Africa than they were anywhere else in Africa by every measurable standard of living and at the end of apartheid they were essentially handed control of a world class country.
How do you explain the mass immigration of blacks to South Africa if they were just being "fucked over"? The truth is a low wage is far better than no wage, and some freedom is better than no freedom.
>>531911 >thanks >Being this much of a feminist This is entirely about race. Also the white people where not intentionally fucking over black people, they thought it was for the better, and to be honest it was. Appartheid SA was safer better cleaner than todays SA. Let alone the fact that not all white people living in south Africa helpt the Appartheid regime. But according to you every white person in SA must pay for what they and their parents (even asuming you can oppress people from the moment you where born, people born in 1994 are at youngest 21, every white person under 21 is a big demographic) did before 1994 (wich was building up a decent African country for once) should be unconditionally punished??
>>531902 Shoddy and quickly created infrastructure was built to support over 80% of the population almost overnight of course irs faulty when the very communities they are going into are what were until recently overcrowded shanty towns.
Their economy is down because they already peaked in Gold and other minerals that make up only 6% of their GDP when it was once 21%.
If it weren't for their remaining minerals and especially their status as the world's platinum mine it'd likely be an even worse situation in terms of export. The long term is their economy is on a slow decline, they are dealing with finite resources to a growing population.
>>532009 >http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0001/000122/012289eo.pdf sorry this was supposed to go to
>>531951 >Also the white people where not intentionally fucking over black people
also >where not intentionally fucking over black people >they thought it was for the better
so were they or were they not intentionally fucking over blacks? "They thought it was for the better" implies that they were intentionally fucking over blacks but it was for the better. Are you saying that they(whites) were fucking over blacks for the benefit of their own group?
>>532020 >>where not intentionally fucking over black people >>they thought it was for the better You know there's no contradiction there, right? If they thought that apartheid was helping blacks, that it wouldn't then be considered "fucking them over"?
The country went down the shitter because half the population is uneducated poor people that will continuously vote for the "black" party even thought that party has shown itself to be incompetent and corrupt.
It "went wrong" when they allowed everyone to vote.
>>532027 ah okay, my mistake, 'they thought they were helping blacks' didn't cross my mind.
Why do you believe that they thought they were helping the blacks?
>>532038 >The country went down the shitter because half the population is uneducated poor people that will continuously vote for the "black" party even thought that party has shown itself to be incompetent and corrupt.
>>532060 >whites should be responsible for bringing civilization to the dozens of millions of mudhutters just because they're nearby
It's such a shame. If the whites had just stayed near the Cape, they could've created a white country and been like Canada, Australia, New Zealand. But they had to expand into the black areas and now they're tied to the Africans forever.
>>530165 >>530165 From what I remembered from a post about someone who lives there, it boils down to a few things.
When blacks and whites were finally equal under its new law (yea), the overwhelming majority (the blacks) started to fuel their anger towards the white people. Can't blame them, decades of prejudice can lead up to that. So of course they voted for people to represent based off their skin color.
But they started to focus more on diversity and giving the black man an advantage that they lacked heavily on several factors. Infrastructure is one, lack of anti-corruption is another, and lack of any real justice. To them, if anything went wrong, the blame was placed on the white man.
Corruption is at a all time high and people are too stubborn to realize it because "How can my brother take advantage of me? It's the white man's fault!" (Of course this is an exaggeration, but you understand my drift). Prejudice and racism is taking place again, only this time is towards the white folk ( I remember someone from the South African government tweeted something about killing all the white folk in S.Africa. I forgot to save the picture). Sure you may argue "They had it coming!". Personally, I don't believe it's good progressive as many would like to think.
Sum it up; corruption is at an all time high because of focus on diversity and a thirst for revenge, infrastructure is deteriorating, and the focus on removing the white folk that lives in S. Africa is the wool to cover the eyes of the masses that live there.
>>532113 >They had no right settling the land Might makes right, that's how humans have worked for all of history. The natives weren't using the land as effectively as the Dutch could. Besides, Cape was sparsely populated at the time and the current explosion in black population only occurred after the whites were already there.
>>532113 At that time pretty much only San sparsely populated the area where the Dutch settled, there was enough land for a small Dutch colony. Not only that but the Dutch didn't subjugate the blacks but traded with them. Only when the English came there was subjugation to the population (and the boers) but to be honest, they changed the country for the better. And you can't blame distant offspring for the subjugation their ancestors did.
>>532166 North Koreans have an iq of 105, are they doing well? Ants are able to govern themselves, so are bees. I agree with you that blacks are not good at governing. (Although historically they have in rare occasions governed themselves reasonably) but I don't think that's due to their iq. Is it really 70 though, it thought that was aboriginal level retarded, blacks are more like 80-90 right?
>>532142 >>532158 It wasn't sparse, the Cape was controlled by several Khoe nations of herders who maximized their cattle and sheep herds on the available land and water sources.
>San There were no bushmen in the cape, their were Strandloopers who were cattleless Khoe on the coast but they were the absolute minority.
Might does not make right anymore than masses of migrants taking over a European nation and forcing natives to submit to their rule.
The "explosion" that you're speaking of comes from an introduction of Maize but if anything that only made Nguni derived populations more vulnerable. However the were still populace and by no means were they anything less than expanding farming communities. Especially when we have records of Xhosa at even the very edge of the summer rainfall zone.
The Dutch were actively subjugating the native populations, they did have racial preferential treatment and did practice slavery and the institutions that did disadvantage non-white populations.
Apartheid is the result of people alive today perpetuating the system and being unwilling to properly uplift the racial majority and those people are reaping what they sow today as they should.
>>532179 Botswana is an exception is the sense that it's basically a big diamond mine. It's a one party, one tribe state with the politicians being the traditional chieftains of the tribe. They get remittances in exchange of letting western companies exploit their natural resources.
>>532190 >North Koreans have an iq of 105, are they doing well? The average north korean probably lives a better life than the average south african...
Of course, north korea is an abject shithole (communism tends to do that). I never claimed that a population with a high IQ will automatically build a successful society : obviously, things such as culture are VERY important.
However, high IQ is a prerequisite. This is why south korea was able to successfully transform from a feudal society to an industrialized country in less than 50 years.
No african country will ever develop like south korea.
>Is it really 70 though, it thought that was aboriginal level retarded, blacks are more like 80-90 right? American blacks are 85. African blacks are 70. Keep in mind that that IQ is probably depressed by malnutrition, so you could expect their "optimal" IQ to perhaps reach 80.
>>532210 >North Korea >communism When will this meme stop, if you ask I'll explain but north Korea has nothing to do with communism for more than 30 years Iq is depressed by malnutrition Either north Koreans are naturally smarter than south Koreans, or the starving north Korean is a propaganda meme or malnutrition doesn't have that big of an impact. Since south Koreans don't have higher iq. Maybe the people enslaved and bought by Europeans to work in America were of smarter more docile tribes and where therefore enslaved by the more aggressive dumb affricans
>>532224 >When will this meme stop Oh shut up commie.
>Either north Koreans are naturally smarter than south Koreans, or the starving north Korean is a propaganda meme or malnutrition doesn't have that big of an impact. Since south Koreans don't have higher iq. South Koreans probably have a higher IQ. Do you have any proof that North Koreans have higher IQs?
>Maybe the people enslaved and bought by Europeans to work in America were of smarter more docile tribes and where therefore enslaved by the more aggressive dumb affricans No, it's because of their 20% white admixture.
>>532306 >Commie Fuck you I'm not even a communist you dipshit, the fact that it's about a country that's against the US makes it okay to lie about it? This has nothing to do with any opinions I have about NK(wich are not positive) >Prove that north Koreans have higher iq than south Koreans I never fucking said that, it's both 105 >White admixture That works as an explanation I guess, but what I said was just a suggestion to a possible explaition hence the maybe
>>532367 >Fuck you I'm not even a communist you dipshit, the fact that it's about a country that's against the US makes it okay to lie about it? I'm not american you fucking idiot. North Korea is indeed a communist state, whether you like it or not, you fucking lefturd.
>I never fucking said that, it's both 105 Prove that they have the same IQ then.
>>532380 >Lefturd Voted ukip and still somehow a leftist huh? >It is a communist country No it's not, not only has it never had communism as a form of (non)government. (it has never existed anywhere in a large scale). It has also removed all references to communism from its constitution. So it also doesn't have communism as ideal, the reason why people call the Soviet Union etc. Communist countries >Prove that it's the same Wealth and poverty of nations study Korea north: 105 Korea south: 106 I think we can both agree that these numbers are within reasonable boundaries to be called the same Can't link you to the pdf because I'm on my phone but you can easily find it online
>>532453 >Voted ukip and still somehow a leftist huh? You are redeemed.
>No it's not, not only has it never had communism as a form of (non)government. I fucking hate this argument. You know as well as I do that the doctrine of communism is to create a violent revolution and establish a dictatorship of the proletariat. Since the revolution and the establishment of the dictatorship have for goals to bring about communism, it is perfectly fair to label them "communist regimes".
>Wealth and poverty of nations study Well that's interesting.
>>532466 >Hate this argument I understand that it's reasonable to call countries who have as goal to establish communism communist regimes. But like I said, North Koreans don't have that ideal anymore, and haven't had for a long time, you wouldn't call Russia communist because it once had that ideal, then why call north Korea communist? North Korea is nothing more or less than a very totalitarian family dictatorship. It fits absolute monarchy better than communism
I know where anon got that number, it was a guesstimate they made because no one has access or info to Mk. The number 105 as extrapolated by taking the mean average iq pf nk's neighbors (sk. China and japan)
How you people so gullible you believe a backwards meme country lie nk can have an iq of 105
If you don't believe me just use Google to look it up. Outrageous whatppl believe without a source.
>>532466 > Since the revolution and the establishment of the dictatorship have for goals to bring about communism, it is perfectly fair to label them "communist regimes". OK, can you point to the point in time where absolute political power in North Korea was in the hands of the laborers?
>Because the current north korean government is a direct continuation of "communist" north korea. So the current government of the UK is Jacobite?
>>532449 >Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Claiming Africans are technically mentally retarded (IQ <80) is an extraordinary claim but I've never seen any extraordinary evidence for it.
>>532500 If you implicitly agree that "communist" North Korea wasn't really communist (hence the scare quotes), why would you call its successor state communist after it dropped even the pretense of communism?
Is Cambodia communist? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_People's_Party
>>532521 If a backward meme country like China can have an IQ over 100 (remember that much of the population lived and starved under Mao or were raised by people who did, and it wasn't much better than India or half of Africa until a decade or two ago) then North Korea can have an IQ over 100 as well.
>>532555 Oh, sorry, let me recommend you a dozen books on the ruling party and ideology of Cambodia. In six months after you've read them all, you can perhaps formulate an informed opinion on the subject. Of course I trust you will make a new thread and link me to it when you feel confident enough to express yourself.
http://www.geni.com/projects/Family-Familie-Oppenheimers/8211 >This is the story of Sir Ernest and Harry Oppenheimer, South Africa's gold and diamond magnates. For more than half a century their influence has been felt in every corner of the world, and at every level of society, since their enterprises are at the roots of the world's economy. Yet strangely, this is the first time their story has been told"
https://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-7735575.html >from The Economist - 1989: >AN AURA of power enshrouds the Oppenheimer family. And the impression of wealth and power is no illusion. By any measure, the Oppenheimers are the Rocke-fellers, Morgans and Gettys of South Africa all rolled into one. Anglo American, the holding company which the family created and still guides, is vast. It is at the centre of the world's largest mining group, producing a fifth of the non-communist world's gold. Anglo also has a firm grip on the platinum market and towers over the South African economy with interests in industry, farming and finance. De Beers, its sister company, controls the world diamond market.
>>532597 >Comparing china under mao tto china of today? Comparing modern china to 'modern'' nk? You may not be aware of it, but IQ tests were performed in Maoist China and it didn't show a depressed IQ compared to other East Asian countries, even though the standards of living and access to information were much worse. If Maoist China and the regime that succeeded it could produce a population with an IQ above 100, why couldn't North Korea? The point was that there was no great difference between Maoist China and North Korea that could explain a large IQ gap back then. Furthermore, the North Korean ruling elites as well as "middle-class" bureaucrats and officers enjoy perfectly decent standards of living and are trusted with more information than the peasants or gulag residents who weren't going to be taking any IQ tests anyway.
One is now something inbetween fascist and stalinist regime that will implode if there is no constant aid from... its neighbour: a corrupt oligarcho-collectivist shithole with a fuckload of slave labour veiled as a pseudo-socialist country that uses communism as means of controling slave population.
I have no idea why China is so "Ro-ro-ro, China stronk", or why people think it is, when most of its economic growth is on paper and they are soon going to have a demographic implosion. Oh, and dont start wit environment...
BTW, do they still talk about Tian-an-men or whatever is its name thing there or about how many died under Mao? No? Shit country.
>>532597 1% of Koreans beat all countries except 3 You're making it really easy for me >Dprk shills Yeah because talking about the intelligence of a certain ethnic group is really propaganda for a country who wasted all that potential, only showing how much they suck that they can't get a nice country going with those human resources. >Ipad That explains your thought, Apple ™ users are well known for logic ™ and unbiased thinking ™
>>532190 Government institutions do matter, but characteristics of the population like time preference and intelligence do form a ceiling of economic potential. While NK is certainly impoverished, what African country could even dream of developing rudimentary atomic weapons like NK has?
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