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GoT authenticity
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You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

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>Seven
>Kingdoms

How accurate is GoT really? Is it an accurate allegory for the real middle ages or is it just a good story with some faux-historian elements?
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>>528048

It's entirely accurate. The only differene is that the squid people actually had dolphis as their emblems, not squids. otherwise it's spot on. the dragons, the gladiator arenas, the large wall to the north - everything.

GoT is a painstakingly accurate recreation of later 11th century BC Munster area in Ireland.
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>>528048
Guns are conspicuously absent, for one
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>>528048
post a better pic faggot
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>>528048
Less hot lesbian sex but otherwise spot on.
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>>528048

Didnt you made a very symilar thread yesterday?
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>>528048
A Kingdom the size of a continent run in a feudal manner is kekworthy as fuck. It ought to be Holy Roman Empire tier at least.

Also it was grimdark as fuck and people practiced peasant levies.
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>>528328
Its an empire technically.
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>>528048
Dorne at least is obviously the Taifa of Al-Andalus
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>>528328
It is the Holy Roman empire. The Iron throne has very symbolic power but the Lord Paramonts almost function as separate kingdoms( The North, Westerlands, Reach, Dorne, Vale,etc...)
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>>528048
>acurate
No
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>>528380
Dunno m8, Targshits seem to have the run of the Continent for a good quite while.
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>>528048
The entire concept of winters that last multiple years is retarded.
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>>528048

It's just a good fantasy story with faux-historical elements.
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>>528416
They were the House of Normandy
>>528419
its magic yo'
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>>528373


Stark of the North = Romano-British / Scottish / Moscovy

Arryn of the Vale = Celtic Wales / Swiss

Tully of the Riverlands = Medieval English

Greyjoy of the Iron Islands = Viking Age Scandinavians

Lannister of the Westerlands = Renaissance Italy

Baratheon of the Stormlands = Tudor England

Tyrell of the Reach = Carolingian French

Nymeros-Martell of Dorne = Post-Reconquista Spain / Norman Sicily

Targaryen of the Crownlands = Byzantine Empire

Wildings = Roman Era Germanic tribes
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>>528440

>ive got a spear
>i can reach him from this roof
>fuck it im gonna jump
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>>528457
it's more like sword on polearm
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>>528456
well thats pretty much your opinion. I don't see how Starks are in anyways vaguely Russian.
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>>528048
>>Seven
>>Kingdoms
In early Medieval England, you had this period called the Heptarchy, in which the Anglo-Saxon land was divided in seven kingdoms.
Although the strength, importance and actual number of kingdoms fluctuated over time, it proves the scenario is very much possible.

The idea of multiple sovereigns uniting under one high king in time of needs was common in the tribal era of Europe, but the way this is utilised in GoT is more akin to feudalism, which would also be possible in theory.
The War of Conquest gives a good explanation of the way this system came to be: Aegon conquered five of the seven kingdoms, removing the Monarchs and placing loyal vassals of his own. Instead of entirely replacing the nobility with Valerian people, similar to what William of Normandy did, the Targaryens used local peoples as vassals, more akin to the Roman approach of client states I guess, but sloppier.
The North and Dorne came into Targaryen rule through diplomacy, which is why they kept their existing rulers. This lesser degree of authority that the Targaryens had in the ruling houses of these provinces could probably explain the huge cultural difference between the North, Dorne and the other kingdoms, although I still find it strange that these are so huge.

This part of the lore is not too far-fetched in my opinion.
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>>528507
>I don't see how Starks are in anyways vaguely Russian.

It's not that the Starks themselves are Russian, it's that I see the different regions in Westeros kinda more or less having elements of those cultures.
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>>528675
> although I still find it strange that these are so huge.

My understanding is that originally, the story was supposed to be set on a roughly Britain-sized island but as GRRM continued working on it, it got bigger and bigger until Westeros became a continent about the size of S.America.
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>>530153
Technically, Beyond the Wall is over half of the continent, so the Seven Kingdoms are less than half of South America.
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>Implying anyone here knows anything of GoT's themes

George R. R. Martin drew a lot of inspiration from British history, in particular the War of the Roses. He has stated that he has very little to do with any other form of European history as it doesn't interest him.

>Lannister = Lancaster
>Stark = York
Pottery.
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>>528048
>How accurate is GoT really?
It's way too big for the number of political subdivisions it contains.

Europe is smaller and held dozens of small kingdoms at an equivalent time period. Feudalism is ill-suited to nations of a similar size to what we see today.
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>>530153
>painfully obvious English Isles
>painfully obvious continental Europe and Asia amalgam
>peaking out of North Africa amalgam

1-888-COME-ON-NOW
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>>528048
The books do a good job showing some of the most dramatic/terrible aspects war and politics in the middle ages. I.e. Powerful king dies and the whole country degenerates into civil war for the next generation, and the peasant class getting screwed by all sides during wartime. I like the atmosphere and think despite alot of cheese, it does give the reader a good feel for feudal culture
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>>528114
Please.
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>>528457
That's Mango for you

Wait until you read the hentai
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>>528419
not if the planet is part of a binary star system and orbits both stars in a highly complicated orbit, then seasons are random lengths of time.
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>>530237
>then seasons are random lengths of time
but complimentary, which also is shown in the show.


So if summer if 5 years long, winter will also be 5 years long, if the next summer is 2 years long so will winter, etc.
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>>530205
>Europe is smaller and held dozens of small kingdoms
isn't that because of the geography which facilitated fragmentation? Mountains and rivers and forests everywhere? What about a place of similar size but more varied geography like say China, was that as fragmented during its feudal era?
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>>530237
There's no astronomical explanation, GRRM says the weird seasons are magic and will be explained at the conclusion of the last book (ie, never).
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>>530153
Essos looks like Anatolia
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>>530205
>It's way too big for the number of political subdivisions it contains.
see:
>>530217

get to the more populated, and coincidentally more explained, areas and the map is literally covered in petty fiefdoms.
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>>530237
Except there's no mention of 2 stars.
However an irregular variable star would produce similar effects.
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>>530254
>There's no astronomical explanation

Not canonically, it's a fan theory that was actually mathematically proven by some collegefags with way too much time on their hands. Something about orbits under those circumstances being completely, and for all practical purposes, unpredictable without computers.
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>>530237
Gurm has confirmed that the seasons thing has a magical explanation, though.
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>>528048
it's portrayal of knights is pretty accurate as far as their status in feudal society is concerned.
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>>530278
post above yours.

>Gurm has confirmed

I don't give a fuck, I'm not trying to say what caused X but explain that X isn't actually all that retarded as

>>528419

Thinks it is, fuck, why the hell do I have to spoonfeed this explanation to you twats?

Guy thinks something is a retarded quirk of bad writing

I explain it actually isn't at all and can in fact happen IRL all you need is a few astronomical conidtions and I get no less than 3, count them

>>530254
>>530265
>>530278
Three faglords chyming in to tell me what their fat cockdaddy sez about it.

Fuck him and fuck the 3 of you.
>>
Books use dated research and views from the 80s as facts, and some things that only seem to exist in myth in real life, such as the tradition of the First Night or the existence of Shieldmaidens, are real in Westeros.

Show is a complete disgrace:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsioCjw6130
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>>530292
And yes, I mad.
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>>530298
More retarded than mad, really.
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>>528048
seven kingdoms is england, the wall is hadrians wall, first men are native britons, andals are saxons, valyria is rome, valyrian conquest is norman invasion and currently the continent its in the war of the roses era

of course there are a lot of additions in the universe and magic and shit but this is the gist of it
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>>530292
I have no idea what you're on about but fuck you too, buddy.
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>>528456
Stark of the North = house of york, Scottish lowlanders/northerners
Arryn of the Vale = Medieval English rulers of Wales, mountain men are kind of like welsh guerrillas
Tully of the Riverlands = Medieval English, the twins and Freys are basically robber barons hinting towards the Rhine but it is mostly Martin's imagination of an alluvial region
Greyjoy of the Iron Islands = viking heritage but a shadow of their former selves, more like the victual brothers with their own islands, medieval era pirates
Lannister of the Westerlands = Medieval English, lancastrians in a mountainous region with gold mines, mostly martin's imagination
Baratheon of the Stormlands = Medieval English, kind of like the northern kingdoms of medieval spain, constantly at war with the andalusians
Tyrell of the Reach = Carolingian French
Nymeros-Martell of Dorne = like an al-andalus that oriented towards northern europe and converted to papism/the faith of the seven
Targaryen of the Crownlands = normans
Wildings = various tribes celts/picts/lapps/slavs/germanics, thenns = finns

fix'd
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>>530196
I've heard the exact same idea before. Where did you hear it as I can't remember
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>>528507
You realize that the Rus were Scandinavians, right?
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>>528416
Dragons helped. 150 years of mounting problems and frequent wars later...
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The entire thing is just a grimdark version of the Wars of the Roses. Why grimdark? Because unless you have the misfortune of being one of the combatants or have a battle happen on your doorstep, you could go through the entire thing without it affecting your daily life beyond it being King Edward on the coins now instead of Henry, good king Harry's son. There was nowhere near the mass slaughter, reprisals and generally brutality you see in other civil wars.

The city of Coventry openly supported Warwick and provided troops and supplies to help him overthrow Edward. You know what Edward did to Coventry as punishment? He took away their ceremonial sword and only gave it back after they paid a huge fine and swore not to be naughty again.


You can see direct parallels of characters and historical personalities (or popular perception of those personalities).

The Mad King = King Henry, insane, though much more a case of mental breakdownstate and depression than psychopathy
King Robert = King Edward, heroic young warrior king who usurped the throne then became a fat, drunk whoremonger
Edward = Richard III (Yorkist apologist version), Northern lord obsessed with honour and chivalry who tries to hold the kingdom together after the old kings death but is stabbed in the back
Cersei = Margaret of Anjou, obsessed with protecting her son and his claim to the throne, with elements of Margaret Beaufort added too.
Joffrey = Edward of Westminster, bloodthirsty little shit, possibly a bastard
Daenerys = Henry Tudor, exile with a claim to the throne, gathering support and troops to invade, plus elements of other pretenders, Edgar the Aetheling, Perkin Warbeck etc.

Battle of the Blackwater = Siege of London, ships sail up the river and attack
Battle of the Bells = St Albans, fighting in the streets of a town, with church bells ringing as signals

Plus plenty others.
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>>530341
Add to each of these

>some other stuff pulled from all kinds of places so that nothing looks like a copy/paste with a different name
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>>530526
Aegon VI Targaryen (read A Dance with Dragons) is definitely Perkin Warbeck
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>>530341
*dothraki= Finns
All meming aside though, the idea if the Arabs in spain had actualy converted to Christianity is interesting.
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>>530588
It's sort of like Genghis Khan if he had failed.
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>>530588
>>530641

I see the Dothraki as a cross between Mongols and American Plains Indians.
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>>530341
much better. To add to this

>North of the Wall
Picts and Scots during Roman rule of Britain
>Valyria
Roman republic
>Old Ghis/Slavers Bay
Carthage
>Braavos
Venice
>Yi-Ti
China
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>>528328
it sort of is. After the dragon's died off the crown actually had very limited authority and are entirely reliant on good personal relations with the powerful lords in each kingdom. And its the same deal inside each kingdom
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>>530927
>American Plains Indians.
because of all the rape, right?
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>>530982
Ever heard of the Comanche?
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>>530982

Like the American Indians because of the Dothraki’s refusal to adopt civilization (beyond weapons) and build an empire, yet like the Mongols in have a more or less unified society coving a huge area.
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