Were gnostics just scientologists of their time or was there

Which Gnostics are you talking about?

>>527259
>Were a extremely vague group of people with radically different views on Christ, salvation and God just a monolithic cult that is obsessed with gaining money and power or was there more to it?
Even to this day, christfags are still spreading lies and slander about gnostics

>>527259

no but hubbard ripped off a lot of gnostic mythology and just turned it into bad sci-fi/occult texts

>>527259
Scientology barrows greatly from Thelma, which in turn itself barrows greatly from forms of gnosticism. Scientology is still bullshit, but some of their practices are interesting. I wish they were so obviously a scam, because they stand a chance of becoming mainstream if they were so fucking stupid.

The main difference between scientology and gnosticism are end goals. Gnosticism says (generally) that there is a duality and you have to escape the material world and the only way to do that is through some form of hidden knowledge and power. Scientology says we are all plagued by spirits and our goal is to purify ourselves and become "Clear". Though the focus on higher levels of initiation and doctrinal secrets prevails they are very much two very different ideologies. Gnosticism is of course a blanket term for a fuck ton of different beliefs, from jewish gnosticism to hellenistic gnosticism, hermeticism, gnostic christianity, and so on. Some of them were even utterly satanic in nature. Gnosticism was generally viewed as a fringe mystery cult. Scientology is viewed as a scam and even though it is a mystery religion it really doesn't hold much prevalence in society. Scientology doesn't even have as much of a cosmology as gnosticism had. Gnosticism had a plethora of gods and goddess other forms had emanations of god, or a hierarchical structure. Scientology has it's ayy lmao stuff but outside of alien spirits and reincarnation the concept of gods and angels are left up to personal belief.

>>527285
Apologetics textbooks even today cover Gnosticism and why it's heretical lies.

1800 years since they wiped them all out and they're STILL mad.

>>527314
Probably because in the modern age anyone has access to Gnostic texts, the history of early Christianity, etc. Plus new findings and scholarship are always being made in the field, and never in a way that seems amicable to the Church's version of the story.

Depends.

Some Gnostics believe in Jesus as God and God Beyond all perception, above the material world.

Gnostic means "having knowledge" primarily about the archons/false (or bad) creator gods.

Some Gnostics believe in Jesus, and just accept the possibility that the True God didn't make the imperfect world / man.

Other Gnostics actually exalt the Archons and use them in ritual magic, and defy the Highest God in order to use the lesser entities for their own witchery.

>>527314
>>527332
True but they are like beating a dead horse already at this point of time. Plus phrases like 'secular gnosticism' gets invented and tossed around to blame everything christians think is wrong in the West on gnosticism really confounds me. Gnosticism seem to be the religious boogeyman to christians

>>527334

some had the logic of calling upon the highest to command or commune with lesser powers, this was also a large part of western magic and hermeticism, the idea that you call upon the authority of god to perform magic, and that the outcome depends on the will of the most high alone, which basicaly is kind of the vill with a capial V in systems like thelema

>>527356
>Gnosticism seem to be the religious boogeyman to christians
It was probably their biggest threat (outside domestic issues like Arianism). I mean one of them was a hair away from becoming Pope.

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>>527378
Sure sounds good when you read it outloud.

>Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons

>>527394
True but Gnosticism was esoteric in nature and could never be monolithic like Christianity (part of their charm desu). Plus Christainity inherently could never co-exist with other religious was what made see Gnosticism as a threat in the first place.

I think it is kinda ironic in some ways that Gnosticism was the Abel to Christianity's Cain. Even thought Cain was admired by gnostics...

>>527459
Gnostic, I think Abel is a good kid, Cain kills Abel.

The line of Cain is cursed with murder.

Not all Gnostics admire Cain, those are the ones where the Talmud and New Age come from.

These are the ones that crucified Jesus.

>>527471
>These are the ones that crucified Jesus.
Are you saying Gnostics crucify Jesus?

>>527505
Not all of them. Because Gnostic is just an attribute to someone's belief.

The "gnostic" is essentially "knowing" of the demiurge/archons.

The difference is applications, a Gnostic Christian is different than a Gnostic Jew, a Gnostic Freemason, a Gnostic Thelemite.

Gnostic just means "you know" about the Archons and creation of matter to some extent more than the basic theology.

Some people summon Archons (which can embody humans beings, which means the Jews and Romans were likely to be possesed)

Other people know about the Holy Spirit, but you have all the secret society groups which blaspheme against the Holy Spirit by their ritual practice.

>>527356
>Gnosticism seem to be the religious boogeyman to christians

Maybe because it's sort of become a catch-all term for "things the Church" doesn't want you to know. In lots of modern media, gnosticism is presented as a cooler, hidden form of Christianity, and lots of people have started using it as a vague term for some mystical religion they see as a more correct version of "the Truth" that's been hidden by organized religion. I see that kind of shit on this board all the time.

It's pretty reasonable that there will still be commentary about it, since it's become babby's first reaction against Christianity.

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>>527285
Gnostics = / = gnostics. I have to admit that I don't quite know the difference, but it is huge.

>>527471
>Pharisees
>gnostic

>Talmud
>gnostic

What?? These are like the literal opposites of gnostics...?? Although maybe they are Gnostic? Tyrannical usurer-priests who believe all people outside their tribe to be cattle, don't seem very gnostic to me. I thought gnostic with a lower g only applied to Christians who believed that Buddha and Zoroaster also revealed real spiritual truth...?

>>527895
I mean Gnostic as in "having knowledge", primarily the belief if Spirit VS matter, and knowing about the demiurge / different creation myth.

It's hard to explain. Pharisees Talmud Jews are "gnostic" in the ensemble they know about Archons / Demiurge and use ritual craft the whole bit. They hated Jesus, and they even worshipped Molech and stuff, and a lot of the magical systems came from the lineage of Cain and Thoth from the Babylonian Talmud

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>>527915
Oh that's very interesting, I remember seeing a video where the qur'an talks about this.

I always thought that Christian gnosis = Buddhist jnana. Which of course completely different from the what the Pharisees were about.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jnana

>>528073
The main difference between Jesus and Buddha is the nature of metaphysical. Jesus mentions the Spirit, and Buddha is helping the awareness of the mind

That's pretty cool though it's like the same thing in another language

>>528101
Well they are cognate words after all, as is "know".