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Lions and Europe
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You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

Thread replies: 93
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File: lion-05.jpg (173 KB, 1366x768) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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Just how and why did Europeans come to hold lions in such high regard? How did a animal not native to the continent end up being the symbol for kings and royalty?
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>>526171
>how
Lions historical range was pretty large so I'd imagine lions would have been relatively well known since prehistoric times

>why
Because they were an apex predator and look majestic
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Lions used to roam over southern europe until the Greeks and Romans exterminated them

Lions have lived in Europe since prehistory

Truthfully, the bear was more highly revered until the early middle ages
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>>526186
But lions in Europe were extinct by the time western Rome fell, and there is no proof that the lions in your picture look like the ones found in sub Sahara.

Wolf and bears are also apex predator,they also look majestic.
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>>526189
The bear was so highly revered that it's true name has been lost and we've been calling it "brown" for thousands of years.
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Because wolfs and bears were too common, lions were half-mythical animals.
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>>526214
I don't recall links between ursus and fuscus
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>>526192
wolf was a turkic thing since 4th century and bear was a slav thing since 15th century

also lions have that royal look about them that other creatures of colder climates just can't pull
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>>526189
>we wuz europeans
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>>526171
They are big guys, and pretty cute

and they like cardboard boxes just like house cats
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>>526192
Just because you don't know what a lion really is didn't stop anyone from using them as symbols.

Case in point when some Swedish king took home a dead lion and the one stuffing it had no idea what he was doing because all he had to go after was the emblems and shit that had lions on them.
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>>526459
Tigers are bigger
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>>526171

Cause Lions have been related to royalty since Ancient times, and medieval people had the Ancient stuff in high regard. And royal regalia comes from that age.
Pic related, made in the XVIII Century, the throne has lions at both sides, just like the throne of Solomon.
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>>526450
Did such a city truly exist under Roman rule? Wasn't Britain a backwater country that no one wanted to get sent to?
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>>526459
4 u
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>>526214
Talk for yourself, we call it urs here, comes from Latin
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>>526494
That's probably London.
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>>526534
L O N D I N I V M
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>>526494
yes, that is canterbury under roman rule

a backwater it might have been, but romans brought their luxuries with them to wherever they went

even in their garrisons there was running water, toilets, baths and temples. in roman colonial cities they built forums, libraries and theaters. they also had roads running from these cities all the way into rome and a working mail system.

colonial cities were built as such because rome planted retired veterans in these cities (to use them as garrisons in the fronties) and they were administered as small romes with their own senates and laws.

after the romans left anglos (being anglos that they are) dismantled most of these buildings to use the stones in their huts.
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>>526548
How much of the Roman population actually left Britain, and why would they leave if they've already planted roots and made it their home? Were these soldiers and politicians promised land back in Italy to get them to come back?

A complex question I'm sure, but am curious.
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>>526611
i don't know how many returned to rome, but here is how the roman rule ended in britain
>in early 5th century the roman emperor tells the british colonies that they are on their own due to increasing barbarian threats in the main land
>some roman-brits move back but some choose to stay
>the ones that choose to stay face barbarian invasions from saxons
>they hire some other barbarian tribes to fight them
>these mercenary barbarian tribes turn on them and sack&invade eastern britain
>romans slowly pull back to farther forts as the barbarian hordes advance
>finally all roman occupation is ended in britain, remaining romans were either enslaved, killed or integrated
>by late 6th century nearly all signs of roman occupation in britain were erased

picture related, probably faces of romans that stayed in britain to protect their homes
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>>526494

Map over Amphiteaters
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>>526171
>..How did a animal not native to the continent...
an european cave lion just do laugh over you from underground spiritual worlds.
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>>526698
>>526611

The Romans couldn't go home because they were home. Since 212/3 AD and the Constitutio Antoniniana, every freeborn man and woman in the empire was a Roman citizen. It is an oft repeated fallacy that the Romans 'left' or 'withdrew' from Britain c.410.

In 400 AD Augustine of Hippo noted that the Romans had made it such that all were now Roman - who could tell a Celt or an African apart, and who would want to? All were Roman.

As for the end of Roman Britain, c.410 so Zosimus (a late 5th/early 6th century pagan Greek historian in Constantinople - should give some idea of reliability) tells us that the emperor Honorius wrote to the poleis/civitates(?) of Britain telling them to look to their own defences.

Archaeology tells a very different tale - it seems that the ending of Roman Britain was a long and drawn out affair - some parts of Britain would still have been recognisably Roman as late as the 470s.

Gildas - conventionally dated c.540 but more likely (see Lapidge on his Latinity and Dumville for the destruction of the basis for the 540 date) in the late 5th century - tells us that a 'proud tyrant' (conventionally identified as Vortigern, but as easily Magnus Maximus or Constantine III) hired 'Anglo-Saxon' foederati to bolster the skeletal defence forces left in place after the continental adventures of Magnus Maximus and Constantine III, who revolted. Most probably Gildas is relating a famous episode of barbarian treachery which suits his narrative, when in reality much evidence suggests peaceful interactions between migrants and Romano-British (see the British names Cerdic and Cynric preserved in the early generations of the genealogies of the Kingdom of Wessex).
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>>526189
Lions were the only animals Templars were permitted to hunt, because they were seen as such a danger to people and animals that it was a public service to drive them away.
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>>526171
>>526171
Lions lived in Europe during the paleolithic but then got extinct for some reasons, maybe they were hunted out, there are cave paintings of lions even in England
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>>527250
No sorry it was in France, not England, but still., my point stands
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>>526727
This bullshit map is lacking the amphitheatre of Nora, Sulky and Olbia in Sardinia, the one of Nora can still be seen in good shape even nowadays.

Do the people who make these tard maps even bother?
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>>526483
and stronger
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>>526171
Most Europeans hold the Eagle in high regard, not many european nations have lions as insignia.
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>>527250
>got extinct for some reasons

Where ever white people go animals go extinct "for some reasons" then they import 10 different species for "sport".
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>>526727
How the hell are there such a small number of amphitheatres in Iberia?
Thats lacking information for sure. Iberia was one of the most populated and romanized regions of the empire outside Italy, next to Northern Africa and Southern Gaul
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>>526478
That's fucking hilarious
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>>526186
This map is depressing af.
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>>528091
In our life time we will most likely see the extinction of Bengal tigers and mountain gorillas.
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>>528098
I'd think mountain gorillas are pretty secure since they're a tourism cash cow.
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>>528100
There are only a couple hundred left in the world.
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>>528091
I heard that there are more lion statues than alive ones now.

Ironic and depressing shit
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>>526192

Just so you know, most eastern european pagan cultures held bears and moose in high regard.

>wolves

Nah, wolves actually killed livestock and were generally really harmful. No respect for them

>>526450

>slav thing

Not exclusively.
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>>528100
>>528107
>>528153
>capitalism

progress everybody
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>>528186

The Soviet union was the largest exporter of rare furs back in its day.
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>>528200
and?
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>>528212

Wanting to make money is not exclusive to capitalism.
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>>527491

Baetica, and Mediterranean part of the Tarracanonsis was. Which is where the maps shows the amphitheatres.
The rest of Iberia, while Romanized, was pretty appart from the Roman world.
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>>528091
Iberian Lynx in 1980
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mapa_distribuicao_lynx_pardinus_defasado.png
Iberian Lynx in 2003
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mapa_distribuicao_lynx_pardinus_2003.png

Distribution of Cheetah subspecies:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Acinonyx_jubatus_subspecies_range.png
The minor ones outside of Southern Africa all have less than a thousand individuals, which is less than Akbar the Great used to hunt with back in the 16th century.
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>>527273
That's a theater m8
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didn't it have something to do with St. Mark?
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>>528329
My bad, still there is a roman amphitheatre at Nora but it's not been excavated yet:

Verosimilmente oltre a queste tombe dovevano esistere strutture
funerarie più consistenti, se possiamo assegnare a questa funzione i
resti di un edificio in opus testciceuin. Certa è invece la presenza di
un anfiteatro, alla base del rilevamento della “Casa della Guardiania”,
le cui fondamenta misuravano m 34,50 x 28,50.

http://www.sardegnacultura.it/documenti/7_4_20060402093702.pdf
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>>526171
> How did a animal not native to the continent

Lions were native everywhere, except Australia and Antarctica.
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Any neat books on the history of lions or any other animal species?

I'm interested in the history of human interaction with cats and dogs, specifically.
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>>526171
The burgundian dukes had lions at their court.
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>>528091
It's the way of things innit. North America used to have cool shit like giant sloths and then humans arrived on the scene.
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>>528098
>and mountain gorillas
Not the gorillas!
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>how did a animal not native to the continent
How's life in america lately?
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Because, as is usually with white men, the female lion does all the hard work while the male lazes around. Thus the lion is the perfect symbol of patriarchy and oppression of women, which came so natural to the kings of old.
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>>528186
You would feel more comfortable in reddit.
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>>529595
>the female lion does all the hard work while the male lazes around.
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>>529617
>implying their wives weren't working harder, taking care of the children AND being beaten by their alcoholic slaveowners
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>>528173

>>529493
These are only on my to read list, so I don't know how good they are but here you go

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1150497.The_Sacred_Paw

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1177122.The_Fox_and_the_Jewel

http://academia.issendai.com/fox-index.shtml
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>>529623
There are people who actually think like this.
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The Bible.
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>>526483
Funnily enough, in Chinese and by extension, East Asian Bestiary, the Tiger is the King of the beasts.

This is due to
1) Mythological reasons
2) According to the Chinese, it literally says "King" on its forehead. The Chinese character fir King (Wang) is "王" is often depicted on traditional Chinese depictions of Tigers.
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>>526171
Leader in lion skin an archetype. Stone age classic.
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>>528153
>WE NEED TO PRESERVE ANIMOLS

Literally fucking why? There are far more extinct than extant species already.
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>>526171
and African archetype
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>>531635
> There are far more extinct than extant species already.

nice irrelevant point bruh.
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>>531649
Nice emotional attachment to something utterly irrelevant.
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>>531635
Because elder should care about junior, strong should care about others.
Humanity is not a virus, we should care about Fauna and Flora, we, humanity remember we was (or is?) part of Fauna too.
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>>531653
>implying the argument is emotional
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>>531655
Species come and go all the time, that's just how nature works. If anything preservation for the sake of preservation is not only unnatural but completely pointless.
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>>531671
>the thoughts of lions vanishing is depressing so we have to prevent it

That's completely emotional.
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>>531679
The preservation of apex predators for the purpose of controlling the overpopulation of herbivores further down to food chain is emotional.
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>>531686
who the fuck gives a shit about dumb shit animals you liberal cuck pussy?

I bet you're the type of liberal bitch that idealized living in huts and being a hunter-gatherer like Natives.
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>>531701
Nice stawman, i'm a STEMfag you nigga.
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>>531703
*strawman
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>>531703
whats that gotta do with u bring a tree huggin bitch, bitch?
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>>531714
Because i'm not? you stating this literally means nothing.
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>>531703
> Nice stawman, i'm a STEMfag you nigga.
Statistical speaking you are a liberal bitch who want to live in a hut because of "muh environment".
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>>531758
Statistically speaking you are someone who knows nothing about statistics.
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>>526171
because they're lazy, they do nothing all day, their females do all the work and in the end they come up to eat what they caught... they're only good to fight other animals.
so they're pretty much all the principles of imperialism embodied in a single animal.
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>>531701
>who the fuck gives a shit about dumb shit animals
People who want to keep the ecosystem in balance? People who want to ensure the future of the human species on earth?
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>>529617
believe it or not, life was as wife or childrenn was as bad as those working down under.
it was probably the worst time to be poor in england - you and your whole family (including the kids as soon as they could walk properly) would pretty much be enslaved and work all day in miserable conditions just to get enough money to buy some bread and not starve at least for another week.
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>>528186

Cluelessness everybody.
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>>531701
They keep herbivores in check, which prevents soil erosion that could threaten agricultural land. Agricultural land can be used to grow food or cash crops to sell for money. Money can be exchanged for goods and services.
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>>527463
Wherever people go
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>>529572
THANK YOU BACK-SNAP GORILLA
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>>526492
It's always mostly either lions, tigers, bears, dragons and phoenix's
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>>529595
>Because, as is usually with white men, the female lion does all the hard work while the male lazes around. Thus the lion is the perfect symbol of patriarchy and oppression of women, which came so natural to the kings of old.
You mean the male lion does all the hard work, protects and leads his pride, has invented nearly everything if import and use in the Sahara, created the codes for for the law, order and safety of any successful civilization as well as the foundations and principles atop which all successful civilizations are created, run and built, etc. While all the female lion has to, at most, do is birthe and raise and take care of a couple of cubs for the few beginning years of their lives. But yeah that's so 'oppressive' and 'patriarchal'. Get out of a history and humanities related lion taxonomy board withh your historically inaccurate and debunked/disproven victim olympics
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>>529623
yes. one sex is always right and noble, the other is always wrong and oppressive. every person. everywhere. all the time
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>>531635
Because life is rare?
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>>533693
It's not?
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>>533698
Unless SETI actually yielded some results or Opportunity found some fossilized microbes then it is.
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>>526727
The Roman "Empire"is overrated.
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