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Why is it "the United States is"...
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Why is it "the United States is" instead of "the United States are" in grammar?

I have an American friend that told me that it used to be the second one, but it changed after the Civil War as the US centralized, possibly with political motivation. Is this true?

Painting unrelated
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They taught the same in my schoolbooks and I'm Dutch. Before the civil war the states were referred independently, you'd often find letters which said: we the states of New York, Massachussets, New Jersey etc. After the war it was referred as a single entity that was the federal goverment of the USA.
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>>516524
Idunno about that, but these two always trigger me:

>THE Ukraine
>The Czech REPUBLIC
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>>516524
I don't know about the whole political thing (could be, for all I know), but yeah, in antebellum writing, you normally see "these united States", " the various united States", and other such structures where the states in United States were understood in the plural.
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>>516524
These United States are
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>>516535
Yeah, but Czechia doesn't really roll off the tongue very well and just referring to it as Bohemia or Bohemia-Moravia is too antiquated.

As for the Ukraine, I realize the "the" is considered derogatory because Ukraine means "borderland" or something but it's such a hard habit to get out of.
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>>516541
>>516540
I'm a southerner from bum fuck nowhere and me and a few family members still say "are". It's weird to think I could be one of the last people alive in America that does it as a matter of habit in the future.
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>>516542
>Yeah, but Czechia doesn't really roll off the tongue very well
I think you need to just need to Czechia language privilege ya shitlord.
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>>516558
>they didn't go with "Czechnya" to cause maximum confusion after terrorist attacks
Pretty disappointing desu
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>>516542
>Yeah, but Czechia doesn't really roll off the tongue very well and just referring to it as Bohemia or Bohemia-Moravia is too antiquated.
The strange thing is that the name Czechs use themselves is Česká republika. Usually when you have "The Republic of X" in a modern context it's either because it's a socialist country (People's Republic of China/Korea) or when it's a dispute with said socialist country (Republic of China/Korea). However we don't have the People's Republic of Czechia and there isn't a serious dispute about it as far as I know.

Btw I'm on the wiki page right now, and it looks like most languages refer to the country as "Czechia" (or some such phonetic variation). The only languages that keep the "Republic" part are Czech, English, and for some reason Romanesque languages.
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>>516574
Yes, I'm aware, I've met Germans irl that say Czechia and I've seen other Europeans do it on /int/.

I lived very briefly in the Czech Republic and inevitably there was a drunken "what would the Czech Republic be called if it wasn't a republic" discussion with a Czech friend. He looked slightly revolted when somebody suggested Czechia. I guess it's just something that sounds adequate to speakers of some languages but not with others.
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>Galicia (Spain)
>Galicia (Eastern Europe)

What
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>>516547
So does it have political connontations?
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>>516608
>Vienna (Austria)
>Vienna (Virginia)
IT'S 10 BUILDINGS AND A TRAIN STATION VERSUS A FORMER IMPERIAL CAPITAL, STOP FUCKING UP MY GOOGLE RESULTS AND GET YOUR OWN NAMES
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>>516574
>Usually when you have "The Republic of X" in a modern context it's either because it's a socialist country (People's Republic of China/Korea) or when it's a dispute with said socialist country (Republic of China/Korea).
But that's like... not true at all... the French Republic, Federal Republic of Germany etc.

>The strange thing is that the name Czechs use themselves is Česká republika.
Also Česko. There is a vocal minority which opposes the word for some reason but it is literally the exact same treatment other countries - such as France and Germany from the above examples - get. Německo is the "short" form for Germany, for example, even though Germany is in fact the Federal Republic of Germany.
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>>516524
"The United States are" but also "The US is".
There's your difference
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>>516592
I think the biggest problem is with the pronunciation. The hard -chi- bit is just awkward.
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>>516622
>Německo is the "short" form for Germany, for example, even though Germany is in fact the Federal Republic of Germany.
.. or indeed Spolková republika Německo in Czech, to be perfectly clear. Heck even Slovakia is literally the exact same thing - Slovakian Republic (Slovenská republika), but refered to as Slovakia/Slovensko.
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>>516610
I certainly don't mean it as such and I honestly didn't even realize I did it until like two years ago. I think people should just get over the political aspect and move back towards "are", which sounds infinitely cooler and less strange. That's not a battle which is even going to occur, let alone be won, though. Most Americans don't even know there was a change.
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>>516608
One is from Gall/Kall/Calleci with a hard sound. The other is a h/kh/ch sound originally. Blame English transcription/possibly Russian pronunciation (they cannot into H).
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>>516622
Nobody says the French Republic, and the Federal Republic of Germany is a remnant from exactly the type of dispute mentioned above.
Anyway unlike the BRD or the Slovakian Republic that are extended names, the Czech Republic is the actual nominal term for the country, the one you'd see in the UNGA, in the atlas, etc.
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>>516641
Yes, that is the entire point - all those other countries are the exact same case as the Czech Republic. They are not just "France", they are indeed the "French Republic".

Except only the Czech Republic keeps being the Czech Republic in English for some reason.
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Shouldn't it be The Federated States of America?
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>>516648
Not him but you have a fair point. Another example would be America commonly being called the USA while Mexico up until recently I believe was also a "Unite States of" but got no such treatment.
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>>516653
The Federal Republic of North America

Sounds third world as fuck
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>>516662
*United
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>>516663
Of course it does, it involves Mexico.
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>>516648
Of course. The point was it's a bit weird since no other European country gets this treatment.
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>>516653
How can states be united?
If it's united than it's no longer plural.
And why are states even in the title? Nobody carries diplomatic relations with Georgia and Virginia and California.

Fuck this Masonic shit tbqh.
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This thread made me realize I unconscious say "The United State is" whenever I use is instead of are.
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>>516677
>If it's united than it's no longer plural.
collective plural, collective singular.
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>>516669
Well, at least in American coverage of sporting events they still give Russia its full "Russian Federation" title. Also in German at least it's almost always Großbritannien instead of some variation on "United Kingdom", which doesn't seem to be used at all really in other languages. Also in German nobody ever says "Der Vereinigten Staten von Amerika" or even "Der Vereinigten Staaten", it's always just Amerika or USA spelled out with English letters.
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>>516683
V-S-A! V-S-A! V-S-A!
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>>516683
>Well, at least in American coverage of sporting events they still give Russia its full "Russian Federation" title
It's because of Soviet shit probably. Remember, Russian Federation is a relatively recent name. They're basically saying "it's Russia but not THOSE guys lol".
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>>516677
The US should always have been more of an EU style setup, honestly (Probably a little more centralized). Peaceful enough for no wars or diplomatic backstabbing but loose enough for some healthy competition and for more vibrant and strong regional cultures to develop.

Also, the CSA was shit but I think secession for any previously independent state that voluntarily joined the union should be allowed. The thirteen colonies, Texas, California, and Hawaii should be free to do as they please but anything else is just running off with stolen territory that the fed paid money for.
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>>516689
>you will never hurl beer cans and holler at the TV from the couch during the Olympics with a bunch of American rednecks who think the Russian athletes are Soviets
Why live
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>>516626
You know that it would be spelled Chekhia, right?
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>united
>arab
>republic
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>>516699
>preferring the Articles of Confederation
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>>516706
My mom's side of the family is from the south, and are fairly intelligent people but they are absolutely geographically retarded, watching the Olympics with them is a serious riot. These are people that I need to put on subtitles for when we watch British movies, ffs

They not only think that the Russians are commies but also most of eastern Europe and places like Turkey and the Netherlands.
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>>516524
>Painting unrelated

Fucking saved though.
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>>516711
I'm not quite sure what your point is.
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>>516720
Not very well versed in it since to be honest the last time I did any meaningful research on them was for an 8th grade project, but it did not actually sound that bad. The one part that really needed to go was the states conducting their own foreign policy, I'm pretty sure with things like Pennsylvanian-Italian Free Trade agreements and Floridian-Portuguese Mutual Defense Pacts going on things would get hairy pretty quickly.
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>>516732
That it's fairly easy to say "-hia". I agree however, that if it was "-chia", it might've been hard.
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>>516542
>As for the Ukraine, I realize the "the" is considered derogatory because Ukraine means "borderland" or something but it's such a hard habit to get out of.

"Ukraine" is more like borderlands in the sense of frontier. "The" is considered derogatory because it implies Ukraine is just a territory with no actual peoples living there.
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>Byelorussia
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>>516754
Isn't it derogatory because it suggests that it's merely a province of you-know-who?
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>>516758
That too, obviously.
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>>516754
"The" is derogatory because holodomor confabulists said so. When sponsored by the CIA.
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>>516524
Dutch here, but I learned that one refers in plural form to enitites like sport teams and nations in UK english, and in singular form in US english
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>>516748
I... I still don't get your point. All I said is that Czechia, as it is pronounced - check + ee + a(r) [as in austral-IA] - sounds awkward.
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>>516781
UK style englishes use the collective singular and collective plural more. US englishes use the collective singular most.
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>>516734
I'm interested if there are any weird stories involving states conducting foreign policy before the AoC was revoked.

On an unrelated note I believe there was a French embassy or at least consulate in Texas before it joined the US and Texas did open diplomatic relations with at least a few countries.
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>>516677
The States do send representatives to foreign nations. Usually they're economic and are state govt advocates for important state industries etc but still. Georgia had what is effectively its own import export agreement with Colombia for a while
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>>516873
Got any sources about this? That's really bizarre and interesting. I thought that sort of thing was expressly forbidden by the constitution.
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>>516524
>>516729
It's a splendid painting
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>>516524
Cause The United States is one country
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>>516896
Then change the name to just America. The US is not meant to operate like it's just another centralized European-style nation state, it's meant to be a union. If the states are going to just be provinces why continue the facade of being a union?
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>>516903
I've never seen the US as anything other than one country with provinces called "states" t.b.h

maybe it's different if you're from the US.

Australia, Brazil, India etc they all have states, yet most people would consider them each a single country
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>>516917
Going into what country means is just semantics, you would have to be autistic to not call the US a country. The difference is that states are much more important in America than in other countries (or unions). The difference is that in the US independent states came together and formed the union, whereas in other countries it's usually more of a case of a central government taking control of territory and then dividing the land into states to make administrating them as easy as possible. To put it more simply the US is formed from the bottom up whereas other federations or unions tend to be formed from the top down.

It's more comparable to the countries within the UK, then say, Brazil or Mexico.
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>>516931
Yeah which is why Australia took 30 years to federate.
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>>516917
They show individual US states on most world maps where I'm from, they don't really do that with any other countries. I think US states are in a weird sort of limbo situation where they are different and autonomous enough to be looked at differently from provinces in other countries, but too much the same to justify being completely separate or thought of on the same terms as EU countries.
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>>516937
EU vs US sports events are always amusing because of that. There was this bowling thing I saw at the pub and when a Dane or something was taking his turn it showed his name and a little Danish flag, and then it wold be Steve from Wisconsin's turn or something and it would show the Wisconsinite(?) flag next to his name.
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>>516535
How many states validate the republic status for you Anon?
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>>516608
Fun fact: In the Caucasus Mountains there are two regions called Albania and Iberia, entirely unrelated to the European regions.
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>>516662
Mexico isn't the United States of Mexico, it's the United Mexican States.
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>>516524
If you name a child "Peaches", she would still be singular. "Peaches is a girl".
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>>517982
That might be a bit of a false equivalency.
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>>516535
Somebody post the giant bunny one
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The countries name is

The United States of America

When refering to the country as a single entity, you use is.
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State rights are dead, so now itd be nice to have an actual country name.
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>>516683
>Großbritannien

We Norwegians also say that(Storbritannia), if you say the "United Kingdom" in Norwegian to anyone in Norway they have no idea what you're talking about.

Same with the U.S desu. Everyone here just says USA, and not the Norwegian name for America(De Forente Amerikanske Stater).
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>>516524
Because the individual states are united into a single entity, and thus are referred to as such. The United Nations, for instance, is also a single organization.
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>>516524
It was also called These United States instead of The United States.
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