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What does /his/ think of The Man in the High...
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What does /his/ think of The Man in the High Castle?

I haven't seen any of it, but the jist of it seems to be "plucky American underdogs being oppressed by mean old foreigner Nazis".

It strikes me this is kinda disingenuous, I really don't think America in the 30s/40s/50s would have had to have been forced to accept Nazism if the racism, anti-Communism and anti-Semitic/rich aspects were played up.
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Nazis in most, if not all alternate history fiction are cartoonesque, comic book villains devoid of any human qualities who talk about gassing Jews and Hitler saluting every 5 minutes. There's even a trope describing this shit: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThoseWackyNazis

And note, this is NOT a nazi apologist post. I feel very little sympathy towards them, but they weren't all Lex Luthors on steroids.
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I mean, the things the FBI were doing under Hoover, Patton wanting to join up with the remnants of the SS to wipe out the USSR, widespread acceptance of the superiority of the white race, McCarthy.

>>512658
No, I understand. There's a tendency to "other" Hitler and the Nazis as just being "crazy" or "monsters", and I think that's a very dangerous thing to do since it denies the possibility that a human, just like you and I could be capable of what they did.

That said, really whacky Nazis can be fun when they obviously bear no relation to reality, like Iron Sky or Hellsing Ultimate or Wolfenstien.
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>>512649
>>512658

Its a fucking novel bros. Which has recently been made a series.
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>>512649

>What does /his/ think of The Man in the High Castle?

Crap, both book and show. It's not even alt-his, it's just pure wank and ignorance. It's premise is that the entire U.S. was so abominably retarded that they managed to fail to fend off an intercontinental invasion by countries that had a smaller industrial output combined than they did.
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>>512674
Also this. Note that when other alt history authors like Turtledove or Stirling want to write something completely unplausible, they usually introduce some fantastic crap elements (aliens, asteroids, time travel etc) in order to make their story believable.
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I don't think a Nazi American state woudl call itself the "Greater Nazi Reich". For one thing Nazis never called themselves Nazis.

"Greater American Reich" would have been less cartoonish.
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>>512674
This

Especially when.they also accept that people just went with the occupation because lol and the USSR just collapsed

I promise you there would have been WOLVERINES style muh freedoms fighters in the countryside waging guerrilla warfare, and they'd provably be fighting alongside their unlikely battle brothers from the CPUSA. The former taking orders from the government in exile of the USA in Mexico and the latter from the Communist International from somewhere in Asia.
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>>512668
Yes, but I think it's emblematic of an arrogance among Americans that they must, necessarily, be the "good guys".

I mean, even IF there was a Nazi occupation of America I really don't think anyone in America would have given a shit about the Jews. The main source of opposition, I feel, would have come from the Communists or, actually, from the South (due to concerns over the power of the central government that fascism entails).
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>>512722
>Confederates vs Nazis

Holy shit, that could work.
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I think that it's a bit wank and a mindless read, but I enjoyed it none-the-less. 4chan's mentality of getting aggressively mad with the historically implausible is kind of childish.
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>>512722
Sorry, I should qualify that more, it's emblematic of an arrogance amongst Americans which then affects how they think about the past.

I mean, consider the mythologising of the Alamo.
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>>512747
Which also goes into the "we didn't lose the Vietnam war" meme.
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>>512722
>>512730

Interestingly enough many Confederates HATED the Germans because German immigrants were coming into the North by truckloads and pretty much given citizenship for fighting the South.
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>>512747
Not that I disagree, but are other countries any different? The Brits? The Russians? The Turks? Most cultures portray themselves as the "good guys", the one exception being Germans and nazism.
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>>512761
Yeah, but the Americans do it worse, mainly due to sheer almost bewildering amount of ignorance you can find in America over just about everything.
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>>512766
Again, the bewildering amount of ignorance of others is common to everyone, Americans are only the most scrutinized over it because their media dominates the world.
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>>512774
I think you yourself are suffering from this arrogance if you think the state of America is normal, and that American media really dominates anywhere outside of North America and parts of Western Europe.
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>>512780
I'm not American, that's the catch. I'm just observing the same behavior from all people and in fact you're the ignorant one if you can't see it yourself. It exists everywhere from Argentina to Poland. See >>512798

I'm sure that thread is yours as well.
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>>512774
I'm not going to deny "weird America" isn't a thing in the media, but most examples of "weird america" aren't American. Louis Theroux, for example.
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>>512799
>I'm """"" not""""" American.

Why can't Americans just admit their country has a problem?
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>>512808
You're beating a strawman m8, I'm really not an American.
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>>512812
>I'm really """"""""""not"""""""""" American

How do you explain Trump, then? Literally nowhere else in the Western world could that man even attempt to run for office without being laughed out the room; yet he's leading the polls in America.
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Take this shit and the other anti-America thread to /int/
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>>512820
Viktor Orban and Vladimir Putin just off the top of my head. Guys running on cheap populism and strongman bravado.
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>>512828
Both in democracies less than 30 years old, in countries that have NEVER had democracy before the 90s.

Also, both in countries that are not in the West, at least arguably.

And even then, they don't come anywhere near Trump's level.
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>>512845
>both in countries that are not in the West
Okay then, Nigel Farage. And didn't Germany elect Adolf Hitler in a democratic election? Stop shifting the goalposts faggot.
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>>512747
All countries need their "mythos", anon. The USA is still a young country and they are still in the process of constructing theirs.
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>Greater
>Nazi
>Reich
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>>512820
>Literally nowhere else in the Western world could that man even attempt to run for office without being laughed out the room; yet he's leading the polls in America.

You're kidding, right? Europe is swinging hard to the right from east to west and establishment governments have been falling to pieces. Hell, just the other day there was a new story about how the new Polish government essentially gutted the state media apparatus for being globalist/multiculti/etc. shills and is re-forming it to reflect polish national interest. And then you have Hungary literally building a wall and Sweden Democrats becoming the largest party in the country by a sizable margin.

It's happening all over; Trump is just more crass about it and gets more airtime.
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>>512855
Again, even Hitler wasn't just as blindingly stupid as Trump is.

Plus, before Hitler came to power, there really wasn't anyone like him. I really think most folks in the 20s just couldn't understand what Hitler could do and how easy it was for him to do it. But we should know better by now.

Not to mention the utter catastrophic state of Weimar Republic. If Germany was strong and successful, like the US is now, it certainly would have been far, far more difficult for the Nazis to come to power, if not impossible.
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>>512747
>consider the mythologising of the Alamo

Russians mythologising 1612 (royal succession quarrel reinterpreted as Russian national struggle against the evil Polish invaders)

Poles mythologising Grunwald (clash of two regional powers reinterpreted as a victory of heroic Poles against the evil German oppressors)

Brits mythologising WW1 and WW2 (a power struggle of two great powers reinterpreted as jolly English chaps heroically defeating the genocidal war machine).

etc

It exists everywhere.
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>>512882
>Plus, before Hitler came to power, there really wasn't anyone like him.
Mussolini?

>Hitler wasn't just as blindingly stupid as Trump is
He's a billionaire, one of the best real estate developers in the nation with an Ivy League degree and a guy who managed to turn his name into a brand. He knows very well what he's doing when he's pandering to the lowest common denominator. But I'm sure some random retard on 4chan has the qualifications to call him "stupid".
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>>512881
Well that's my point.

Trunp is beyond crass, he's almost a parody, a character actor so deep he doesn't even know how to get back. At least in Europe they're at least of normal intelligence.

And even then, parties like UKIP are only managing to muster 20% of the vote. They aren't anywhere near to winning.
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>>512899
>ivy league degree
>had a billionaire father.
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>>512766
It's not due to ignorance (because holy shit are Brits, Turks and Russians wildly ignorant). It's because America is a propositional identity. America, and Americanism is first and foremost an idea.
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>>512906
Millionaire, actually. He turned his father's millions into billions.
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>>512889
But in Britain at least, it's questioned, very seriously.

Almost no one in Britain accepts WWI as anything other than an immense waste of life, and people are becoming more knowledgeable about things such as the Bengali famine.
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>>512915
>people are becoming more knowledgeable about things such as the Bengali famine

And you think this isn't taking place in America, especially considering how their university history teachers go full EVERYTHING WHITE AMERICANS EVER DID WAS EVIL with critical theory?
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>>512900
>Trunp is beyond crass, he's almost a parody, a character actor so deep he doesn't even know how to get back.
Or maybe his entire brand has been based on his brashness and he's keyed in to "fuck political correctness" as the best way to simultaneously attract the disenfranchised and get free press coverage. Just a thought. You don't grow a million dollars to ten billion dollars by being stupid.

>And even then, parties like UKIP are only managing to muster 20% of the vote. They aren't anywhere near to winning.
Except that that 20% is a staggering increase over their historical performance and the trend shows no evidence of stopping.
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>>512899
>Mussolini

Eh, so close it really wouldn't make a difference.

Even then, Italian fascism was very different to and far more gentile than German fascism.

>he's pandering to the lowest common denominator

Even if that's true (and his behaviour in Scotland when he tried building his golf course disproves that, I'd say) there's a hell of a lot more lowest common denominator in the US than in other countries.
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>>512936
>Even then, Italian fascism was very different to and far more gentile than German fascism.
Me ne frego.
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>>512915
>becoming knowledgeable
>Churchill dindu nuffin
>it was their colonial government
>never mind that it was completely powerless because it was in the middle of the war.
>or the brits fucking refused offers from canadians or americans to supply grain to the bengalis for free.
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>people are actually thinking Trump is stupid just because he acts abrasively and spouts maymays in public in order to attract voters
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>>512936

>Even then, Italian fascism was very different to and far more gentile than German fascism.

Not him, but that has a lot more to do with Mussolini's power base being far less stable than Hitler's. Remember, when the war goes badly, he gets fired. That was a thing that could and eventually did happen to him. He wasn't in the position to impose mass purges.
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>>512936
You're backpedalling and moving the goalposts like a fucktard all over the thread.

>Viktor Orban
>UGH, NO REAL DEMOCRATIC TRADITION

>Hitler
>UGH, NOT AS BAD AS TRUMP (lol)

>Mussolini
>UGH, TOO CLOSE TO HITLER
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>>512907
I'd disagree with your point about other folks being as ignorant as Americans (in very few other places do a significant portion of the population genuinely believe the world was created 6000 years ago) but go on about this idea of propositional identity, explain what you mean by that.
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>>512933
>And you think this isn't taking place in America, especially considering how their university history teachers go full EVERYTHING WHITE AMERICANS EVER DID WAS EVIL with critical theory?

No, because huge parts of the population aren't even entertaining the notion.

There is an anti-intellectualism in America, it just isn't normal and you lads need to accept this.
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>>512935
>You don't grow a million dollars to ten billion dollars by being stupid

Yes you can. Of course you can, you just need to hire the right people to do it for you. Not hard in an economic boom and with millions of dollars.
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>>512972
In fact the very idea that Alamo shouldn't be celebrated and that the Texan settlers were unlawful squatters came from, you guessed it, America.
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>>512948
Exactly. Mussolini was not accepted religiously, his being in power was conditional on his competence.

>>512955
Please come back when you actually think up a counter argument to my disproving of your points.
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>>512955
And, no Hitler was not a stupid as Trump is.

Even for his later mistakes and bizarre behaviour at least he had the excuse of being on meth.
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>>513004
You don't have a point. You were refuted by several anons which you countered by moving the goalposts.

>>513010
Tell me how exactly is Trump stupid.
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>>512984
But there's also Americans who would literally regard having this opinion as "unamerican", or in other words as synonymous to treason.
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>>513021
>You don't have a point. You were refuted by several anons which you countered by moving the goalposts

Nope, literally just you anon.

So anyway, please explain to me how Russia is in the West; how the democracy of Russia and Hungary aren't only 30 years old and how there were facist leaders similar to Hitler who came to power in successful, stable countries prior to the 20th century?
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>>513023
So what, you're lambasting America for having a plurality of opinions?
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>>513021
>Tell me how exactly is Trump stupid.

The fact you even have to ask, holy shit.

The fact he thinks blocking an entire religion from entering the US is a viable or sensible solution, the fact his solution to the oil crisis was to occupy the entire Middle East and take their oil, the entire golf course fiasco in Scotland.

Not just the fact he's stupid but his almost delusional level of narcissism.
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>>512702
They don't in the book, the eastern US is just called the US, but it has a puppet president installed by the Nazis just like we installed hella puppets in the real cold war.

>>512674
IIRC the premise is that FDR was assassinated and the US didn't recover from the depression before the war, so didn't have a greater industrial output, so didn't win.
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>>513058
That's not a "plurality of opinions" that's insanity.
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>>513050
>literally just you

These posts:

>>512948
>>512939
>>512935
>>512907
>>512881
>>512859

are not mine

>how Russia is in the west
It could be if we define the west as European countries inheriting the Greco-Roman Christian tradition. It's not western European, however.

>how the democracy of Russia and Hungary aren't only 30 years old

That's an arbitrary bullshit criterion you introduced to the debate only after you got BTFO with specific examples. So yes, textbook goalpost moving.
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>>512674
>It's not even alt-his, it's just pure wank and ignorance
>It's not even alt-his, it's just like every other piece of alt-his ever
No way anon, really?
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>>513081
>these posts aren't mine

Well obviously, they're intelligent.

But even then, most of those either aren't incompatible with what I'm saying or have been disproven.

>the west as European countries inheriting the Greco-Roman Christian

So by actually moving the goalposts and tying a modern geo-political term to a thousands of years old similarity quite arbitrarily.

Why religion? It's A factor, but it's nowhere near the most important.

>arbitrary bullshit criterion

No it isn't. Young democracies are generally far less stable then established ones, and far easier to be taken advantage of by strongmen.

For example, most former Soviet bloc countries and "democratic" countries in Africa. America, obviously, isn't like that, just like it isn't as unstable (and again, as new to democracy) as the Weimar Republic was in the 20s.

Still waiting to be "btfo'd".
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>>513115
You're just making shit up at this point. The age of democratic establishment has nothing to do with it, Hungary went 20 years with electing perfectly standard democratic politicians until there was a game changer (I know what it was, do you?).

African and middle Eastern countries are a different case altogether, as their cultures are largely incompatible with democracy thanks to tribal and sectarian divisions, which don't really exist in places like Hungary.
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>>512718
You think Americans in 1945 were so much more fanatical than the Imperial Japanese that they wouldn't have surrendered after a couple atomic bombings? Plz
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>>513068


Which is again, retarded. FDR didn't wave a magic wand to end the depression. The main thing he did to end the depression was to get into the war, and the huge demand spike that it produced. The manufacturing capability was already there, there just wasn't in use.

Regardless of how isolation mode the U.S. gets, if they're in the war, they're going to ramp up, and ramp up quickly.

>>513106

Please, not all alt-his is idiotic. Granted, a lot of it is, but hardly the totality. If you keep it narrow and focused, you can have interesting discussions.

If Kesselring had been in charge instead of Rommel in North Africa, how much longer (if any) do you think he could have held on before the Allies were in a position to try something like Husky?
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>>513163

Considering that "A couple of Atomic bombings" aren't much worse in terms of death toll or city damage as "A couple of cities straetigaclyl bombed by 4 engine bombers", and that places like like Germany didn't surrender from being bombed by the Brits and the Americans, I think you're overestimating nukes.

And underestimating the fact at how badly fucked Japan was even before the bombings, what with being blockaded, their rail network smashed to bits, Tokyo firebombed, cut off from their oil and most of their troops, etc.

If Doolittle had a nuke or three, do you really think Japan would have surrendered in 42?
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>>513140
>The age of democratic establishment has nothing to do with it

Yes it is.

For example, just about every former Soviet bloc country and just about every "democratic" African country.

I really don't understand how you can seriously deny this.

>Hungary went 20 years with electing perfectly standard democratic politicians

Nice cherry picking.

>their cultures are largely incompatible with democracy thanks to tribal and sectarian divisions,

But you get that in the West as well. Look at Ireland.

And I think this comes back to looking at the age of democracies, I think you could very easily argue Russians just aren't used to democracy and that Putin uses a lot of methods and ideas inherited from the Soviet leaders to maintain power.

None of which explains why a reactionary moron like Trump is so popular in a stable, successful country like America.

Unless you don't think America is stable and successful.
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>>512984
But for the most part the Texas Revolution was caused by Americans settling in Coahuila de Tejas, who would often come with more money and materials than your average native Texan.
Many of the most famous figures are of this breed, and many of the Republic of Texas' new government was ruled by Americans.
Tl dr America started the Texan war for independence and I wouldn't be surprised if it was their first proxy war.
T. Dallas Texas
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>>513195
You think ex-Soviet bloc politicians are in any way or form comparable to African ones? Are you a fucking retard?

>Nice cherry picking.

Czech republic? Poland?

>Look at Ireland.

And northern Ireland indeed is a political clusterfuck that got literal terrorists like Gerry Adams an actual political position.

>reactionary moron like Trump

I don't think you know what reactionary means.
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>>513066
I would say that's grounds for him to be considered politically and socially unacceptable, not stupidity.
You seem to be using emotional judgement which is really what he wants considering it's his entire game-plan.
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>>513066
>campaign promises = what a politician actually thinks

Are you a 10 year old?
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>>513244
Likely underage and a yuro who just now found out that American elections decide how his life works out.
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>>512649
I didn't enjoy the TV series but the actual premise is interesting. Looking at the backdrop presented it makes way in a sense. Without FDR a string of weak presidents could have severely weakened the USA. Look at other states which have had a string of bad rulers. Also without the Pacific fleet which as he states is wiped out in pearl harbour and with a hugely declined industrial base it's conceivable the us fleet would have struggled to defend both the Atlantic and Pacific. The dividing of the US makes sense. Ie the japs ruling lightly via a puppet government called the Pacific states. As for the Germans they do seem kinda cartoonish but I felt it seemed to be hitler becoming more mad and everyone running with it. Even during the war hitler had cartoonish ideas.
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>>513228
>You think ex-Soviet bloc politicians are in any way or form comparable to African ones?

Yes, in both examples the democracy is unstable. The precise reasons WHY the democracy is unstable are different, and largely unimportant, but a significant and shared factor is the youth of the democracy.

>Czech republic? Poland?

Which ARE in the West, sharing borders with Germany and membership of the EU.

>And northern Ireland indeed is a political clusterfuck that got literal terrorists like Gerry Adams an actual political position.

So you agree with me.

>I don't think you know what reactionary means

I know what it actually means, but I wouldn't know what you think it means.
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>>513190
The strategic damage from the atomic bombings was not what compelled surrender, it was the demonstration that a single bomber could now do what used to take whole wings, instantly, and by implication, that it would be no great feat to erase a whole country in a week or two.
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>>513265
>Yes, in both examples the democracy is unstable.

There's quite a difference between a guy running on a populist platform and a guy who embezzles half the budget and then starts an ethnic cleansing. And in fact, populism is about as democratic as it gets.

>Which ARE in the West, sharing borders with Germany and membership of the EU.

And Hungary shares border with Austria and is a part of the EU as well, so? How is Hungary excluded from the west but Poland is not?

>So you agree with me.

Not at all you fucking moron. You implied that young democracies tend to be unstable, UK and Ireland have a long democratic tradition, longer than others in fact, yet it didn't prevent them from instability because the place was a sectarian clusterfuck.

>I know what it actually means

I don't think you do, but go on, amuse me with your definition.
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>>513236
>him to be considered politically and socially unacceptable, not stupidity

And the reason for this unacceptablity is just a good old fashioned basting of ignorance and idiocy.

>You seem to be using emotional judgement

How so?

>considering it's his entire game-plan

I really can't accept that he genuinely understands just how ridiculous he sounds, he's far too proud for that.

Now, Boris Johnson, that's a politician who cultivates a bumbling persona to lull people into a false sense of security.

>>513244
It's the fact the campaign promises are so extreme, so stupid, the fact he genuinely thinks these are sensible promises to make in the first place, even if he's just using them for support. Because he is going to have to at least try to deliver some of them if he wants a second term.

>>513252
Why are you samefagging?
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>>512960
Not that guy.

As an American, the only thing that makes me an American (speaking culturally, rather than legally) is the fact that I agree to be one and accept the rights and responsibilities that go along with it. It is based upon a set of values and an idea of governance rather than a shared history.
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>>513281

>The strategic damage from the atomic bombings was not what compelled surrender, it was the demonstration that a single bomber could now do what used to take whole wings, instantly, and by implication, that it would be no great feat to erase a whole country in a week or two.

Except that America already had wings and wings of bombers, which had already obliterated so much of the transport system that Japan was facing starvation come 1946 anyway.

The country was, for all intents and purposes, already destroyed. The nuke was a straw that broke the camel's back, nothing more.
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>>512960

Not even most Americans believe that the earth is less than 6000 years old. And I can easily find large numbers of people in other countries who believe equally retarded things.
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>>513321
I think this is a specifically American thing simply because America was the go-to place for all religious crazies all over Europe.
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>>513293
> a guy who embezzles half the budget and then starts an ethnic cleansing

Except that the guy who did that gains and retains support with a populist campaign, for example Idi Amin's and Mugabe's anti-imperialist, anti-western stances.

>Hungary

To be perfectly honest, I'd consider Hungary to be Western but I'm not sure if Hungarians themselves consider themselves Western. Considering the different language family, I'd assume not.

I'm also fairly certain the Russians wouldn't consider themselves as part of the West.

>You implied that young democracies tend to be unstable, UK and Ireland have a long democratic tradition, longer than others in fact, yet it didn't prevent them from instability because the place was a sectarian clusterfuck.

I didn't imply that, I stated it outright.

Even then, the fact most young democracies are unstable is a tendency, not a law of nature. Obviously, as ALL democracies were young at one point.

I'd point to South Africa as young democracy with problems due to it's age (specifically, the still present and still massive wealth disparity and the corruption of the ANC party) but problems which aren't going to cause the country to decend into chaos anytime soon.

>amuse me with your definition

"a person who holds political views that favor a return to the status quo ante, the previous political state of society, which they believe possessed characteristics (discipline, respect for authority, etc.) that are negatively absent from the contemporary status quo of a society."

For example:

>let's make America great AGAIN
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>>513303
Okay, pretty understandable, but how does it figure into this?

Would you say it necessarily disproves the notion that Americans are particularly ignorant about the past, or that they lionise their own country's past to a significantly greater degree than other nationalities?
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>>513321
Can you though?

Don't about 77% of adult Americans believe angels are real?

I really can't immediately think of something similar that's so widespread, if the poll's accurate.
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>>513321
those countries don't debate putting said stuff into their school syllabi
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>>513350
>let's make America great AGAIN

There's more to being a reactionary than just going to status quo ante. For example, if a Russian said they need to restore Soviet socialism, would he be a reactionary? I don't think so. America literally either never had a reactionary current in 250 years of their history, or at the very best it died out with the Royalists.

>I didn't imply that, I stated it outright.

Go on and tell me how come the age of a democratic establishment wasn't relevant in Ireland then.

As for African countries, Amin was mostly supported by Nilotic tribes, Mugabe by the Shonas, Taylor by the Americo-Liberians etc. Africa could go for the next 500 years with democracy and their people would still base their voting on tribal lines.
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>>513066
>The fact he thinks blocking an entire religion from entering the US is a viable or sensible solution
It already exists de facto, as an unwritten rule, although not in the exlusive manner Trump is proposing. I was outright told by an immigration officer that muslims undergo further scrutiny, even if you're a guy from the UK named Muhammad, you have a much worse chance getting into the US than someone named Mike.

Just check the visa rejection rates in American embassy in Kabul and compare it to I don't know, Prague.
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>>513399
>There's more to being a reactionary than just going to status quo ante.

Not really.

>For example, if a Russian said they need to restore Soviet socialism, would he be a reactionary?

It could be.

>I don't think so.

Your opinion doesn't really count for much in this case.

>America literally either never had a reactionary current in 250 years of their history

FUCKING LOL, SERIOUSLY?

>Go on and tell me how come the age of a democratic establishment wasn't relevant in Ireland then

Why are you trying to change the subject?

>As for African countries, Amin was mostly supported by Nilotic tribes, Mugabe by the Shonas, Taylor by the Americo-Liberians etc. Africa could go for the next 500 years with democracy and their people would still base their voting on tribal lines.

Yet that didn't stop them from using populist messages to gain support outside these tribal groups, or as a means of gaining legitimacy.
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>>513549
>FUCKING LOL, SERIOUSLY?
Yep. America is even funded of anti-reactionary, revolutionary principles. The virulent hatred of the monarchy and aristocracy are its key tenets.
>>
>>513459
Nononono, he didn't say anything about subjecting them to more scrutiny, he said he would legally barr them from entering the country for an unspecified amount of time for no reason other than their religion, doesn't matter about anything else.

That's completely different from what goes on now.
>>
>>513559
That's what I meant by "not exclusive manner like Trump." If a partial exclusion can exist de facto, then an almost total exclusion can exist de jure.

Obviously, you'd still end up with muslims claiming to be non-muslim entering the country, but those would be a rare exception rather than the rule, even less so if it becomes a trend.

So yes, it definitely is viable and doable.
>>
>>512755
A lot of the Germans comming to the States were catholics aswell another reason for them receiving hate
>>
>>513579
True, the North as a whole really experienced a massive influx of Catholics in the 1860 and 1870s (Irish, Germans, Slavs, Italians). The south didn't see such an immigration pattern with the exception of perhaps New Orleans which was mostly Catholic to start with.
>>
>>513572
>viable and doable

Doable, perhaps, but not viable, the backlash would simply be too big.

And even then, it's still not sensible.
>>
>>512820
He could run in quite a few shitholes if Berkshire funded a cola sweatshop there or something.
>>
>>513604
Backlash from whom? America had strict immigration quotas for people outside of western Europe for decades, you didn't see the Chinese throwing a shitfit about it.

Moreover, how would the backlash manifest? UN diplomats saying they're "deeply concerned" can safely be ignored.
>>
>>513619
>Backlash from whom?

Just about every Muslim on the planet? Including the ones who're your allies? And the ones you're trying not to convince to become terrorists? And most other western democracies? And the Pentagon for putting national security at risk? And everyone in America who isn't radically right wing? And everyone who's going to have to pay for immigration services and the NSA to check whether or not people are Muslim, and then hold them until we can "figure out what's going on" as Trump put it?
>>
>>513619
Muzzies from the middle east get into america just fine right now.
They mostly veto folks from the subcontinent.
>>
>>513647
>implying it's the NSA who's doing the checks

You're so clueless it hurts.
>>
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>>513675
>he has to resort to nitpicking like this
>>
>>513688
Fuck off weeb.
>>
>>513619
> Backlash from whom?

The American public, mostly
>>
>>513647
So wait a fucking second. On one hand Americans are supposedly retards for supporting Trump, on the other hand, his policies would suffer backlash ... from Americans?
>>
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>>513702
>fuck off weeb is the best he can manage
>>
>>513721
Can you put on a trip please?
>>
>>513711
Nonono, American's aren't ALL retards. They just have more retards then most.

There are actually some normal ones.
>>
>>513647
Honestly nobody cares about desert goatfuckers. The only muslims who count are the Saudis and they're great buddies with Trump.
>>
>>513727
Surely not more than Sweden, come on.

>>513728
Pretty much this.
>>
>>513728
They won't be.

Attendance at Trump's UAE hotels and suchlike is down like 30% in a few months.

And what about when large numbers of the desert goatfuckers get together, buy a bunch of ex-Soviet weaponry and then take control of large swathes of Iraq and Syria...oh, wait.
>>
>>513734
>Surely not more than Sweden, come on.

In terms of sheer stupidity and anti-intellectualism? No, not by a long shot.
>>
>>513740
>They won't be.
What are you, some kind of nostradamus? Let me remind you that the Saudis remained US allies in the early 2000s despite the anti-mudslime rhetoric being much more fiery.

>And what about when large numbers of the desert goatfuckers get together, buy a bunch of ex-Soviet weaponry and then take control of large swathes of Iraq and Syria...oh, wait.
Honestly I support letting them do what they want and deporting every mudslime in the west to live in the glorious caliphate. Too bad I don't hold office.
>>
>>513745
>anti-intellectualism

Sweden literally has fucking social voodoo proponents masquerading as intellectuals
>>
>>513740
>They won't be.

They're entirely reliant on America for protection, the moment US pulls out of there and stops selling them weaponry, they are done. They might be dumb, but they're not dumb enough to commit suicide out of asspain.
>>
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>>513301
>>
>>513301
>>513756

>the samefag defense


Honestly at this point I'm not sure if this is an argumentation tactic to discredit the opponent, or if some people are genuinely retarded to the point they think everyone who disagrees with them is the same person.
>>
>>513748
>What are you, some kind of nostradamus?

You really don't have to be to see this coming.

>Let me remind you that the Saudis remained US allies in the early 2000s despite the anti-mudslime rhetoric being much more fiery.

Bush never did ANYTHING like Trump's proposing.

>Honestly I support letting them do what they want and deporting every mudslime in the west to live in the glorious caliphate. Too bad I don't hold office

So, rather like the US's approach to Germany prior to WWI and WWII. It'd only last until they attacked you, and they would.
>>
>>513647
>Just about every Muslim on the planet?
The majority of Muslims already hate everyone who isn't a Muslim. What will saying "Sorry, you can't come in if you're a terrorist" change? We already do this anyways.

>Including the ones who're your allies?
We have no Muslim allies. We only have puppet regimes. The shenanigans in Syria (And basically the entire history of U.S. involvement in the Middle East) are proof enough that the U.S. does not need to give a damn what the people of the Middle East want.

>And the ones you're trying not to convince to become terrorists?
Why should I care what some dune coon in Bumfuckistan thinks? If he can't act like a grown up and not associate with known terrorist groups he's not getting in. Ergo, his opinion matters zilch.

>And most other western democracies?
You mean the Western Democracies that are themselves considering doing the same? If anything, the U.S. doing it would set precedent it's perfectly fine to drop the "letting terrorists into our nations is a moral duty so we can make up for our sins" dribble.

>And the Pentagon for putting national security at risk?
Not letting terrorists into the country does not put national security at risk.

>And everyone in America who isn't radically right wing?
This is a position supported by large numbers of people in the United States. They just preface it with "I know it's racist, but...". Do not take IT'S THE CURRENT YEAR man as an indicator of what Americans think.

>And everyone who's going to have to pay for immigration services and the NSA to check whether or not people are Muslim, and then hold them until we can "figure out what's going on" as Trump put it?
We already do this. It's called the United States Citizen and Immigration Services. They're the ones who handle immigration. Adding an extra question to the forms one has to fill out and saying "Get back on the boat" will cost nothing. The cost is negligible, even with Trump's economic plans freeing up money.
>>
>>513764
>You really don't have to be to see this coming.
Oh so it's "common sense"? Just like it's "common sense" according to you braindead lefties that letting in a million refugees into Europe will have absolutely no impact on the frequency of islamic terror attacks? Kll yourself.

>Bush never did ANYTHING like Trump's proposing.
He started a fucking war in the middle east.

>So, rather like the US's approach to Germany prior to WWI and WWII. It'd only last until they attacked you, and they would.
ISIS are a bunch of desert goatfuckers, I highly doubt they even have a single fighter aircraft. If they try to lift a finger they would get annihilated. Heck look how fucking scared of Israel they are.
>>
wew this thread got derailed fast
>>
>>513749
>Sweden literally has fucking social voodoo proponents masquerading as intellectuals

And most folk understand that it's nonsense, unlike in America.

>They're entirely reliant on America for protection
>this is what Americans actually believe

Mate...just...no. You're so, so wrong.

US is as dependent on Saudi Arabia's influence over the Middle East as the Saudis are on the US, if not more so.

The US lose Saudi support, the US loses the Middle East, it loses a key counter weight to Iran, it loses the most significant ally in the region, and ally who can simply go to the UK, Germany, Canada, China for its weapons.
>>
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>>513756
>>513762
>he thinks he can just remove the (you) with MS paint people will believe him
>>
>>513784
Saudis literally have only American military tech and Americans guard their airspace, they aren't worth shit othewise. America pulls out of there and SA is open game for Iran and their buddies.
>>
>>513788
So, in essence, you think all the people in this thread disagreeing with your shit are the same person? Is that's what you're saying?
>>
>>513174

Unless of course a division went into the US that was great enough to keep it from going full strength.

Russia has beaten back many invaders but has also succumbed multiple times in battles. Just because the US can devote itself fully to war once doesn't mean it was destined to again. Imagine if something like in Crimson Skies happened.
>>
>>513788
>MS Paint
>Iphone screenshot
>>
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>>513800
>>513788
Meh
>>
>>513766
>The majority of Muslims already hate everyone who isn't a Muslim

Not even going to justify that with a response.

>We have no Muslim allies.

Yes you do.

>Why should I care what some dune coon in Bumfuckistan thinks?

Because then they become terrorists...which is BAD...

>the Western Democracies that are themselves considering doing the same

There aren't any.

>Not letting terrorists into the country does not put national security at risk.

But not any Muslim into the country would massive hurt the US' opinion amongst Muslims, and lend credence to what Islamist groups say, that the US hates all Muslims, thereby radicalising more Muslims.

>This is a position supported by large numbers of people in the United States

And opposed vehemently by equally large numbers, so what?

>We already do this. It's called the United States Citizen and Immigration Services. They're the ones who handle immigration. Adding an extra question to the forms one has to fill out and saying "Get back on the boat" will cost nothing. The cost is negligible, even with Trump's economic plans freeing up money.

>he thinks it's enough to just ask them

If you're not going to carry out checks, what's the point?
>>
>>513813
Came here for a thread of Man in the High Castle and all I see if the MIDF. Fuck off Ahmed
>>
>>513779
>Oh so it's "common sense"?

Not really.

>Just like it's "common sense" according to you braindead lefties that letting in a million refugees into Europe will have absolutely no impact on the frequency of islamic terror attacks?

Nice "BUT WHAT ABOUT-ism".

>He started a fucking war in the middle east.

Yeah, very specifically against a single country and dictator. Not against all Muslims.

>ISIS are a bunch of desert goatfuckers, I highly doubt they even have a single fighter aircraft. If they try to lift a finger they would get annihilated. Heck look how fucking scared of Israel they are.

And yet, here they still are.

Even then, what Trump's arguing for would only pour petrol on the fire.

>>513781
I know, right? :/
>>
>>513819
Seconding this. Camel fucker pls go.
>>
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>>513800
>>513805
>he thinks if he just keeps doing it people will change their mind

>>513803
You can get painting apps.
>>
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>>512649
>Americans in the 30s/40s/50s would have accepted National Socialism because they hated international socialism

Nigga what?

Anti-rich in the United States?

There are no poor in the US, only depressed millionaires

Socialism, national or otherwise, is completely anathema to the American way of life, particularly in the 30s-50s
>>
>>513793
And then once Saudi Arabia's gone, there's nothing to stop Shias from focussing their strength on Israel. Good job.
>>
>>513819
>>513836
I'm the OP, blame these idiots who can't accept Trump's a complete ass.
>>
>>513805
>remove it first time and noone believes you
>Just do it a second time
>>
>>513847
Sure thing Mamadou, it's all me. This whole thread is just you and me.

Are all muslims this brainfucked by default or is it just you?
>>
>>512874
>le smug confederate philosopher face
>>
>>513849
Well, didn't Joe Hill have a following?

I think to say socialism was an anethema in the US pre war is an anachronism brought about by the red scares in the 50s.
>>
>>513860
Mohammed, pls leave. *tips Aloha Snack bar*
>>
>>513830
>Even then, what Trump's arguing for would only pour petrol on the fire.
Everything which causes muslims to die is fine by me
>>
>>513876
so for example nuking of usa?
>>
>>513866
>Well, didn't Joe Hill have a following
Who?

>think to say socialism was an anethema in the US pre war is an anachronism brought about by the red scares in the 50s
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_scare
There were prewar red scares
>>
>>513830
>What Trump's arguing for would put wood on the fire.
How? If the Muslims don't come here then they can't do anything, retard. Trump is also anti-war which is good.
>>
>>513830
>if you ban us from your country, we will get mad and start some bad shit

Which is exactly why you're getting banned.
>>
>>513860
I'd rather blame your mental illness that can't accept people have different opinions.
>>
>>513881
>There were prewar red scares

Yeah, because there was real pre war support.
>>
>>513905
People can have different opinions, but your opinion does not trump reality, as Trump seems to think.
>>
https://youtu.be/2FPrJxTvgdQ
>>
>>513880
How would that cause mudslimes to die??

No but nuking of every single population center in the middle east would be a good start.
>>
>>513925
>The Daily Show
CURRENT YEAR
U
R
R
E
N
T

Y
E
A
R
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>>513928
Like Tel Aviv?
>>
>>513925
Is this supposed to be comedy? Why are they clapping like seals?
>>
>>513934
Considering that's the heart of the responsibility for Islam and refugees then yes.
>>
>>513909
Don't you think it would still be stamped out but the same ferocity? The Socialist party never got more than 1% of the vote
>>
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>>513925
>Uganda be kidding me
>>
>>513934
Why not.

I was more thinking of Cairo, y'know the places with more than 10 million muslims?

Why are you acting stupid? Or maybe you are indeed stupid? It would explain why you're a mudslime.
>>
>>513949
Has ANY third party in the last 100 years gotten more than 1% of the vote?

Just curious.
>>
>>513955
>that back to Reddit pic
>>>/b/
>>
>>513965
Ross Perot
18.9
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1992
>>
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>>513979
>your pro-Muslim comments
Also, that was in the comments section and should prove how cancerous Liberalism is on every aspect of society.
>>
>>513983
Interesting.
>>
>>513999
FYI independent is a political party it doesn't just mean he has no party
>>
Giving a little bump, I've just started watching this too
>>
>>512881

>Sweden Democrats becoming the largest party in the country by a sizable margin

Not yet they aren't. S and M are still larger.

Numbers in polls December 22nd 2015:
S: 25,3%
M: 22,3%
SD: 20%
>>
>>512722
>it's now arrogant to believe you have the moral high ground over a ethos that calls for the destruction of an entire race
>If there was a Nazi occupation, no one would care about the Jews.
>I know it's one of the core tenants of the National Socialist doctrine, but I'm just gonna ignore that for my own interpretation of this scenario!
>>
It's shit.
Thread replies: 166
Thread images: 16
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