[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y ] [Search | Home]
4Archive logo
I don't know shit about his internal...
If images are not shown try to refresh the page. If you like this website, please disable any AdBlock software!

You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

Thread replies: 47
Thread images: 3
I don't know shit about his internal reign of Japan. Was this guy a decent to okay leader with his domestic policy and control of the military? Should he had let his younger brother take the throne? Why was Japan dead set on having their emperor still in charge/royal family not touched o during the Allies call of unconditional surrender? Is he held in high regards today?

Was he MacArthur's bitch? Enlighten me /his/
>>
>>512037
He had a lot more to do with the war then they let on. They refused to surrender unless "the nation's continued existance was guaranteed", "the nation" meaning the royal family... the rest of Japan was still just property of the royals...

Anyway after the war they worked hard to make it seem like the Emperor and Imperial family were just innocent tools of the militarists and made sure they stayed in control... the US decided to help them with this charade because they needed Japan because they were worried about the USSR.

Sidenote: The Aussies wanted him killed and the cities of Japan removed, they wanted the whole of Japan just to be a big farm.. they were pretty pissed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrender_of_Japan#Supreme_Council_for_the_Direction_of_the_War

Some light reading 4 u
>>
>>512235
Did Japan have any hopes of restoring the royal family to its former status? I mean what's the point of keeping the royal family alive if in the end they aren't going to be in charge anymore except in name?

Also based Australians when it comes to having Hirohito hung.
>>
>>512037
>Was this guy a decent to okay leader with his domestic policy and control of the military?
Good lord, no. Hirohito might be the worst ruler in Japanese history.

>Should he had let his younger brother take the throne?
Absolutely. Hirohito's refusal to abdicate was the central act that deformed post-war Japanese political culture. Because of that, anything goes, and anything has gone, for 70 years.

>Why was Japan dead set on having their emperor still in charge/royal family not touched o during the Allies call of unconditional surrender?
Eh. It wasn't so much Japan, as a relatively small ruling group, which had invested in the institution (rather than the person) of the Emperor, the abstract qualities that they didn't find in the actual society around them. The Emperor WAS Japan, as far as they thought.
>>
>>512257
>>512235
Was he MacArthur's bitch though?
>>
In Japanese history, people used him as holy person for power game.
At WWII he could not be involved in politics.
However military used him for his hidden power.
Thanks to the United States. you guys allowed him.
If we lost him we had to do more brutal war, and Japan was no more Japan.
His ancestor made Japan and he is Japan and most of us still love him.
I know my English is so bad, Im sorry for that XD.
>>
>>512037
Bitch ass nigga loved Mickey. Visited Disneyland before dying.
>>
File: japanese_1.jpg (286 KB, 462x600) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
japanese_1.jpg
286 KB, 462x600
>>512037

Recommended reading: The Rising Sun by John Tolland.

The Emperor was largely a ceremonial office. The Emperor was a figurehead for the Japanese religion and viewed as outright holy by almost everyone to a degree that he never spoke or voiced his opinions on matters except in grave emergency.

Hirohito was groomed to be this ceremonial figure. Other Emperors, like Meiji, have taken a much greater interest in state affairs and actively dictated the direction where the country should go. Hirohito was not one of those Emperors. The will to fight and expand was that of the Army and Navy. They made their case, presented it and Hirohito, the aforementioned groomed figurehead, simply Agreed whenever the Ministers were unanimous. The country was ruled by a Prime Minister and his cabinet, elected by the Juchens (former Prime Ministers) and then presented to the Emperor who formally sealed the deal.

Technically, the Emperor COULD issue orders but he never did. Throughout WW2 he only made one order, towards the end of the war in one of the final Cabinet meetings, he stated that should the gathered ministers (google "The Big Six") not come to an agreement wether to fight on or surrender, he would order them to seek Surrender.

Hirohito never believed in the war. There were many who didn't. It shouldn't be said that he was a pacifist - the reason that he didn't want the war was because the Army had promised a quick conflict resolution in China and that resolution never came. Hirohito had very little faith in the armed forces of the Japanese empire.

There are many interesting anecdotes. In one meeting with the Emperor, when he first voiced his concerns over the war effort, it was such a shock to the gathered members to hear the Emperor speak and voice opinions that two of the ministers collaped "uncontrollably on the floor" at the sight of tears flowing down the emperors cheeks.
>>
>>512037
>Why was Japan dead set on having their emperor still in charge/royal family not touched o during the Allies call of unconditional surrender?

Because they've got evidence for a historical "House of Yamato" going back at least 1500 years, with Emperor Keitai, and even more than that in myth and legend. Now, granted, given the intervening years of noble shenanigans and debauchery I'll guarantee you not a single chromosome is shared between Keitai and the current royal house, it's still a powerful idea for some people.

If you, a Japanese patriot, had westerners clawing at the door and demanding an end to the imperial rule you believe predates the Roman Republic, would you give it up so easily?

Granted, Hirohito absolutely needed to and should have abdicated.
>>
>>512685
everyone loves mickey you gigantic faggot
>>
>>512037
Japanese people don't ask themselves such questions. It is irrelevant what he was like. He was their Emperor.
>>
>>512768

I actually know a guy down on third street who doesn't. He's a proper cunt tho.
>>
>>512768
Nah, patricians prefer Donald.
>>
>>512840
>donald
>not goofy
Donald is for angry autists who curse the government every time they forget to fill out a form
Goofy is for people who have found peace with the world.
>>
>>512245
>what's the point of keeping the royal family alive if in the end they aren't going to be in charge anymore except in name?
I think it's more of a tradition/historical/cultural significance thing than anything practical. It's like some European monarchies where they hold no real power.
>>
>>512800
>Irrelvent
>He was their Emperor
>Don't ask themselves such questions.
Are you fucking with me? What retarded people wouldn't question their Emperor/Empress if they were a failure/doing poorly at their job?
>>
>>512257
>Because of that, anything goes, and anything has gone, for 70 years.
What?
>>
>>513286
Japanese
>>
>>512712
Tolland misses the boat a bit when it comes to Hirohito. He tends to go along with the traditional view engineered post-war be McArthur and Japanese politicians/court officials; that Hirohito was a figurehead and the war was the result of "militarists" in the Japanese armed forces, specifically the IJA. Rising Sun is a fantastic book, but given it was published in 1970 its hardly surprising it sticks to the recieved view of the Emperor as a good boy.

'Hirohito and the Making of Modern Japan' makes the opposite claim ‐ that Hirohito was educated from infancy in matters of military and modern political thought to live up to his grandfather Meiji and actively lead the nation. By the same token, he would never issue direct, obvious commands, so as to give an heir of peaceful inviolability. Politicians or generals might petition him for his blessing regarding a given issue, and he might make suggestions or probe them, but ultimately he would sign anything put before him, from further and further expansion into China, to starting the war with the US and the use of chemical weapons. Bix argues he knew full well what he was doing, and condoned the war/Japanese expansion behind the scenes whilst preserving his pacifist saintly image publically. This image would become crucial following the war, as it allowed Hirohito to remain Emperor, avoid punishment, McArthur to have a peaceful post‐war Japan and for the "militarists" like Tojo to be punished as stand‐ins for the Emperor, appeasing the vengeful American/Allied public.
>>
>>513286
What >>513654 says.

The Yamato Dynasty is the oldest dynasty in the world by dint of its Religious status. It wasn't like nearby Imperial China where a bad emperor can be rightfully removed. To touch the Yamato Emperor is to blaspheme the gawds.

If the Emperor fucks up, someone else is blamed. This was how Shogunates got replaced from time to time.
>>
>>514071

Sounds interesting. It wouldn't surprise me if that was the case. Even so, Douglas MacArthur needed him kept on as a figurehead to pacify the japanese population so there's noway he could have been removed anyway...
>>
Wasn't he just a figurehead?

Even Emperor Meiji didn't do a lot and the ones running the country were the Meiji oligarchs. The Meiji oligarchs were probably the biggest difference between the success of both reigns. As soon as they died out, Japan got weaker.
>>
>>512037
>Was this guy a decent to okay leader with his domestic policy and control of the military?
His biggest problem was going a long with warmongers who got them involved in WWII. It's kind of hard to blame him though, given Japan's success in the Russo-Japanese war, and the constant oppression they faced on the international stage in terms of becoming a world power. But yes, he had a fair amount of power, although the ideas didn't necessarily start with him, he was definitely complacent.

>Should he had let his younger brother take the throne?
Why should he?

>Why was Japan dead set on having their emperor still in charge/royal family not touched o during the Allies call of unconditional surrender?
Because they could. And unlike Germany, who still feels guilty to this day, it allows Japan a narrative of innocence. It's pretty obvious the surrender the US got was only unconditional in name, especially factoring secret negotiations. Japan was not able to keep it's holdings, but they were pretty much doomed when Germany lost and Japan lost Manchuria.

>Is he held in high regards today?
Not really. Actually, for most of Japan's history, the emperor was just a symbol of sovereignty, like the royal regalia, not actually the holder of power himself. There were only a couple of periods where the emperor held power.

>Was he MacArthur's bitch?
MacArthur was a weeb.
>>
>>512245
>I mean what's the point of keeping the royal family alive if in the end they aren't going to be in charge anymore except in name?
This is pretty much how it's been throughout Japanese history. Take the shoguns for example, and the emperor and his court basically acted like the papacy, offering legitimacy and crowning shoguns.
>>
>>513286
why do you think east Asians are stereotyped as being bug brained collectivists with the individual will of an ant?
>>
>>514620
->
>>514091

That might not be the case after ww2. I don't think that Americans, English and Australians really understand. Even when I was younger I could sense some of those old traits in older people that went extinct with the new generations and in the West they weren't really there since after first world war or so. World in mainland Europe and far Asia was different, people were strangely obedient to the higher ideas in general and duty, honor and those things that often caused blind following were still there. Individuality replaced the collective and that's a good thing.
>>
You should understand about very week and complicated political system of Imperial Japan.

In Imperial Japan , Emperor decide prime minister and control Army and Navy WITH SUPORT OF REPRESENTATIVES.

In Imperial Japan , Prime minister has very week power.
Prime minister could not decide Representative of Army planning and Navy planning.
They are decided inside of Army and Navy.
Prime minister even could not decide minister of army and navy without agree of Army and Navy. It means that Army and Navy has right of VETO to Prime minister.
Sometimes Prime minister named by Emperor is changed by Army. ( Navy did not use right of VETO)

Minister of Army has the biggest power? No.
Representative of Army planning was not Minister of Army.
Even Minister of Army could not make decision against common sense of organs of Army.

Militarism of Imperial Japan was consulted Militarism.
>>
>>514091
>To touch the Yamato Emperor is to blaspheme the gawds.
Interesting. So for the longest time the Imperial Family of Japan has been held in high regards without zero wish for change from the outside when they held power and fucked up?

Is this a culture thing?
>>
>>512477
No. If anything, MacArthur comes across as his bitch a bit. Hirohito, or at least the people around him played him like a damn fiddle, making him think he was so clever for his hackneyed 'insights' into the importance of the emperor.

>>513305
Japan has a deficit of political accountability in their political culture. This is the root of Japan's inability to grasp and relate to the problems of their past in a mature manner.

To meme it, Hirohito turned the Japanese into a race of Dindus. It's why even peaceful, leftleaning Japanese citizens treat the war as just something that happened, and a tragedy that befell Japan. Because if the guy who held absolute war making power isn't responsible for the war, how can anyone be?

>>514142
>Even so, Douglas MacArthur needed him kept on as a figurehead to pacify the japanese population
That was all MacArthur. The notion of the Japanese all clamoring to hold onto Hirohito came out of the same place as there being no Chinese soldiers south of the Yalu: MacArthur lived in a bubble of people who told him what he wanted to hear.

Even among people that wanted to defend the Kokutai, it was widely assumed Hirohito would have to abdicate, and probably face charges. Emperors had abdicated before. They had been punished for their actions in the past.

Not only was Hirohito's brother a popular choice, faith in Hirohito as emperor was so low that there was actually decent public interest and sympathy for a random shop owner who was the descendant of the Southern Court.

And that's just within the 'keep the emperor' opinion, which polled about 50% in 1945.
>>
>>517017
When it came to the occupation of Japan the Allied Powers should've appointed someone else other than MacArthur.

What's this story about a random shop owner? They were related to the imperial family?
>>
>>517017
>Japan has a deficit of political accountability in their political culture. This is the root of Japan's inability to grasp and relate to the problems of their past in a mature manner.
Ah, okay thanks!
>>
Do Japanese schools teach there kids about how awful there army was to civilians during ww2? I heard they don't
>>
>>516980
The Emperors of Japan most of the time were powerless. At times, they even faced poverty.

>>517664
They do.

They just avoid doing a Germany and staying prostrated for the rest of their history for things that happened before they were born.
>>
>>512235
Could you further explain to me as to why did the Australians wanted him to be killed?
>>
>>517664
UAS was more and more awful to civilians.
>>
>>512257
Pretty sure Hirohito's father was worse. Guy was literally retarded.
>>
>>519008
But he didn't do much, and civilian democracy thrived under his rule. By those standards he was a fine ruler.
>>
>>512235
>Sidenote: The Aussies wanted him killed and the cities of Japan removed, they wanted the whole of Japan just to be a big farm.. they were pretty pissed.

Wow, I never knew the Aussies wanted to do a Morgenthau on post-war Japan.

Funnily enough the Australian government actually complained when the British government abandoned the Anglo-Japanese alliance in the '20s
>>
File: U218257INP.jpg (99 KB, 800x486) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
U218257INP.jpg
99 KB, 800x486
>>519008
>>519032
Yeah Japan would've been the best place in East-Asia to live in under "Taisho Democracy".

it wasn't until the 30s when the military began flexing and the government had no control over the army when they occupied Manchuria. Japan's downfall lied in the way its government was organized. The Cabinet couldn't be formed without a Naval and Army minister and the ministers were appointed by their respective branches so if the Prime Minister was against increased militarization or pro-west then they would deadlock the cabinet and it would be dissolved.

The Empire's constitution was quickly thrown together and didn't really take into account the independence and insubordination of the armed forces to the civilian government.
>>
>>512245
Hitler was incensed when he found out the Kaiser was deposed and exiled.
I think its a symbolic thing.
>>
>>512245
>Did Japan have any hopes of restoring the royal family to its former status? I mean what's the point of keeping the royal family alive if in the end they aren't going to be in charge anymore except in name?
no idea.

frankly i don't know why England or those other european countries bother keeping their monarchy around either. do they really think their blood is more special than theirs? or do they keep them around for the tourist trade?
>>
>>521209
The former status of the emperor was a symbol of the nation of Japan, not an actual holder of power.
>>
>>512037
He didn't control the military whatsoever. The prime minister held most of the power.
>>
>>522002
>He didn't control the military.
>Constitution gave him power the military.
>He was the one to confirm orders.
>He ordered the surrender of all Japanese forces at the end of the war who went butt hurt and killed some POW's some even held out.

>>517950
Australia was going to be invaded by Japs and POW problems.
>>
>>517017
>That was all MacArthur. The notion of the Japanese all clamoring to hold onto Hirohito came out of the same place as there being no Chinese soldiers south of the Yalu: MacArthur lived in a bubble of people who told him what he wanted to hear.

You learn something new every day...
>>
>>521209

>frankly i don't know why England or those other european countries bother keeping their monarchy around either

That's because you're plebeian American trash who prefers buy to rule over born to rule
>>
>>522937
>Australia was going to be invaded by Japs and POW problems.
'We never had enough troops to [invade Australia]. We had already far out-stretched our lines of communication. We did not have the armed strength or the supply facilities to mount such a terrific extension of our already over-strained and too thinly spread forces. We expected to occupy all New Guinea, to maintain Rabaul as a holding base, and to raid Northern Australia by air. But actual physical invasion—no, at no time.' - Hideki Tojo

'Japan never actually planned an invasion'

The dozens of subsequent air raids on Northern Australia in 1942 and 1943 were mainly small and aimed to prevent the Allied air units based there from attacking Japanese positions. The Attack on Sydney Harbour in May 1942 had the goal of diverting Allied forces away from Midway Island prior to the Japanese attempt to capture it and the subsequent Japanese submarine campaigns off the Australian east coast in 1942 and 1943 were attempts to break the supply line between Australia and New Guinea during the New Guinea Campaign.[20] Moreover, the Japanese attempt to capture Port Moresby in New Guinea by advancing along the Kokoda Track and landing at Milne Bay between July and September 1942 aimed to capture the town to complete Japan's defensive perimeter in the region. Once secured, Port Moresby was to have been used as a base from which Japanese aircraft could dominate the Torres Strait and Coral Sea, and not to support an invasion of Australia.[21]
Thread replies: 47
Thread images: 3
Thread DB ID: 378635



[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Home]

[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Home]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the shown content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows their content, archived. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.
If a post contains personal/copyrighted/illegal content, then use the post's [Report] link! If a post is not removed within 24h contact me at [email protected] with the post's information.