The protestants contacted the Orthodox Church in order to determine whether they might merge together, but the Orthodox felt the need to "correct" the protestants on some of their theology, which the protestants didn't take too kindly to.
>>509077 Luther himself was a reactionary in temperament, disliking the spirit of the Renaissance. But his leading disciples were children of the Renaissance. The most distinguished of them, Philip Melanchthon, had been professor of Greek at Wittenberg and was deeply interested in Hellenism. His interest extended to the contemporary Greeks; and he thought that it would be valuable to establish a friendly understanding with the Greek Church.
The difficulty was to find out how to make contact with the Greeks. The only European powers in diplomatic relations with the Ottoman Empire were Catholic: Venice, France, and the Habsburg dominions. It was, he thought, through Venice, with its colony of Greek scholars, its Greek possessions and its lack of religious intolerance that an approach could best be made, particularly if a Greek scholar could be found there who was in touch with the East and had not joined the Roman faith.
But rather more than a year earlier he had received at Wittenberg an elderly Serbian cleric from Montenegro called Demetrius, who came with an introduction from James Basilicus. Nothing is known of Demetrius' early history. He was already an old man when he met James in Moldavia in 1558. Demetrius made an excellent impression in Lutheran circles. Melanchthon liked him; and Nicholas Hemmingius wrote in a letter that he was an old man of exemplary piety and admirable morals, whose claim to be a deacon was undoubtedly genuine, though the Lutherans could not check up on this; he was certainly full of erudition about his Church.
It's not really about fasting, it's about more fundamental theological questions. The Protestant movement was about figuring the Bible out for yourself and finding meaning in it to personally develop a relationship with God. Orthodoxy, well, as the patriarch said:
> And if any controversy in regard to Scripture shall have been raised, let them not interpret it otherwise than as the luminaries and doctors of the Church have expounded it. And in these let them glory rather than in composing things out of their own heads lest, through their lack of skill, they may depart from what is fitting.
In other words, "We've figured out all this shit already. If you have questions, ask us. Don't try to figure things out for yourself."
Here was a heaven-sent agent for achieving the desired contact with Constantinople. In order that the Orthodox might be properly informed about the Reformed religion, the Confession of Augsburg, which summarized Lutheran belief, was hastily but ably translated into Greek by a learned Hellenist, Paul Dolscius of Plauen, and a copy was given to Demetrius to deliver to the Patriarch together with a personal letter from Melanchthon, which barely touched upon doctrine but suggested that the Lutheran and Greek Churches had much in common.
Demetrius left on his journey late in 1559. Melanchthon died before an answer could have easily been returned, but his fellow-divines waited for many more months for news from Constantinople. At last they decided that Demetrius could not have delivered the letter. In fact he arrived at Constantinople at the end of 1559 and was received by the Patriarch, but the documents that he brought embarrassed Joasaph and the Holy Synod. A brief glance at the Confession of Augsburg showed that much of its doctrine was frankly heretical, but it would be undesirable to spoil relations with a potential friend. The Patriarch and his advisers took refuge in the favorite device of oriental diplomacy. They behaved as if they had never received the communication, which they carefully mislaid.
Demetrius waited for two or three months for a reply to carry back to Wittenberg. When none was forthcoming he did not venture to return to Germany. He moved to Transylvania, where he spent three years trying to introduce Lutheranism into its villages, encouraged by James Basilicus. After James' fall he carried on his propaganda in the Slav dominions of the Habsburg Emperor. The date of his death is unknown.
>>509113 But the NT itself says you can't figure the Bible out for yourself (2 Peter 1:20). So shouldn't they have at least been open to the possibility you need the Church, or did they consider Sola Scriptura to be infallible?
>>509173 The NT wasn't even written when Christ said that, though.
Also, don't conflate ῥήματι (the word used here) with λόγος. There's a significant difference.
>>509174 Philosophy that doesn't want people using the Bible to justify whatever they want by taking things out of context (context including time, place and cultural significance, as well as purpose and genre of writing).
>>509196 >Philosophy that doesn't want people using the Bible to justify whatever they want by taking things out of context (context including time, place and cultural significance, as well as purpose and genre of writing).
Sounds more like a philosophy that doesn't want people critically examining it for themselves. I'll have no part in something that can't be entirely my own belief, so thanks for bringing that passage to my attention and putting another nail in that coffin.
>>509241 If the Orthodox's Church's interpretation were subjective, then they couldn't resume contact with the Coptic Church after 1,600 years of separation, and then find they still have the exact same interpretation.
>>509285 That would be pretty sad, it would destroy the nuance of human language. Which is kind of important, seeing as there are double, triple, quadruple and even more meanings to a lot of the Bible.
Protestants didn't really want an "authentic" Christianity, they just invented some historical myth to justify themselves. No Christian in the early days of the Church would follow Protestant theology.
Catholics were much closer to Orthodox, whatever they thought about their practices.
>>509498 Shakespeare joked about it at all. In King Lear, the guy calls himself virtuous because he "does not eat fish" (a joke because Catholics ate fish during their fast days, whereas Protestants didn't observe fast days). That was also the joke about Falstaff being a glutton.
>>509149 You can't figure out the bible yourself, because you require the Holy Spirit to allow you to read it with a heart unhardened. That's what the verse is talking about, and it is made clear in context. It is not "you need to do exactly as this man in a silly hat tells you."
>>510150 It's the job of the man in the silly hat to safeguard the orthodox exegesis, so you people who think the Holy Spirit is working through them alone (which they might actually believe) can't come up with wrong interpretations and spread them as authoritative.
>>510231 >spread them as authoritative. There is no such thing as authoritative spreading, because there is no central authority to be authoritative (again, note the lack of silly hats) in the first place. At most, a bad interpretation can become temporarily popular by being appealing, but anyone truly connected to the Holy Spirit will quickly see the error, not partake, and repent if need be.
>>510246 Without authoritative intepretations or at least mechanisms to detect heretical or Orthodox ones, you practically created a landscape where we don't even know what the Divine Revelation is saying.
>>511651 Acknowledging you aren't sure what the divine revelation is saying is much preferable to being sure you are correct while actually being wrong. The early church(es) had pluralites of interpretations, which the later Catholic and Orthodox churches deemed as "heresies" rather than the reality of "people who disagreed with our own interpretation."
>>512291 The Early Church are quite consistent on what scriptures say. It is only the heterodox sects that squabble and have differing beliefs. Important issues of Faith such as the Eucharist, free will and the deity of Christ are pretty much agreed upon by the Church at the time. In contrast, we find different in Protestantism where squabblings over doctrine
>>512717 >The Early Church are quite consistent on what scriptures say. It is only the heterodox sects that squabble and have differing beliefs. Yes, because you define "the early church" as whichever one you personally believe in and classify all the other ones as heterodox or heresies, whereas in reality whatever you believe in was one of many "early churchES" whose beliefs got reclassified as heterodox or heresies by your church.
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the shown content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows their content, archived. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.
If a post contains personal/copyrighted/illegal content, then use the post's [Report] link! If a post is not removed within 24h contact me at firstname.lastname@example.org with the post's information.