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Which "The Great" was most worthy...
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You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

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Which "The Great" was most worthy of the title?

Which one was least deserving?
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Cyrus. He accomplished so much
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>>498589
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>Least deserving
Antiochius.

>Most deserving
Napoleon.
>>
How many -the great- are there anyway?
Frederick the great
Charlemagne (called Great over here)
Alexander the Great
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>>498589
Karl
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>>498838
Off the top of my head:

Alexander
Antiochius
Pompey
Mithridiates
Alfred
Charlemagne
Cnut
Peter
Catherine
Gustavus
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>>498803
Who the hell calls Napoleon "the Great"?
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>>498838
Constantine.
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>>498989
Yeah Nappy is just Nappy. It's obvious who we're talking about when there's no Roman numerals behind the name.
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>>498803

to my knowledge the Seleucid ''empire'' consisted largely of Antioch by the time rome got involved
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>>498989
Everyone should. Napoleon did a hell of a lot more than most of the other " Greats ".
>>
Most deserving is undoubtedly Constantine.

Least deserving is a tie between Peter and Catherine.
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>>499250
It's a higher honour when your name becomes a reference point.
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>>498838
>Charlemagne (called Great over here)
No need. Charlemagne is a portmanteau for "Charles the Great".
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>>499250
>>499272
This desu. You don't need to explain which Napoleon you mean, but then there's a dozen something famous kings named different variations of "Charles"
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King Alfred the Great of Wessex
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>>499273
So why is germany called "Allemagne" is magne means "the great?"
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>>499264
Catherine was worse. "The Great" was actually the title she was given during her lifetime. It's the very definition of a meme. Only her lovers had a better life under her rule. That is before she changed them for new ones.
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>>499326
Magnus.
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>>499031
Nah when Antiochus rose to throne they still had pretty much the whole package still intact.
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>>498589

this is funny
you totally think war is some honorable shit because you have no fucking clue of the reality behind it.

much of human history has been a sin
somehow the monarchy has manged to do whatever they wish to the people and idiots like you just accept it

virtually all "wars" are criminal acts the rich are doing to the poor
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>>498589

/thread
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Based Justinian
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>>499444
read the secret histories by procopius
if even one thing in there is true
i dont think he deserves that title
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>>498589
>Least deserving: Peter the Great of Russian Empire


>Most deserving: Napoleon, Emperor of the French
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>>499444
He overstretched the Empire to an insane degree and was partially responsible for it being reduced to just Anatolia and the Balkans in the coming centuries.
>>
>that absolutely useless leader who called himself the Great

Who is it?
>>
Obama The Great
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>>499326
Charles le Magne (contracted into Charlemagne) = French for "Charles the Magnificent"
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>>499326
It's based off the Germanic Allemani tribe which the Franks had a lot of contact with. So in that case Allemagne doesn't mean anything, it's just the way it's written.
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>>499584
It's closer to Charles the Great.
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>>499326
>>499596
In French, "gne" is pronounced "nyuh"
At the baginning, "Allemagne" was more like "Allemani", but then the "i" was removed and "gn" was added to keep the "nyuh" sound that doesnt work with just a "n"
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>>499596
>Germanic Allemani
*German tribe. Germans really should be called Teutons, that would make everything so much easier.
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>>498589
Peter
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>>498589
>most
Charlemagne

>least
Catherine II
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>>499730
Germanic tribe
German tribe makes no sense, by the time the German people were a thing, they were no longer a tribe
The Alemanis were a Germanic (=/= German) tribe, which (centuries later) gave its name to the German people in some romance languages
They werent Germans, they just happened to be chosen by a few languages to describe the newly born German people in the 9th century
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>>499912
>Catherine II
nice bait
destroyed poland with mere politics, stabilized country and was huge patron of arts
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>>500138
>destroyed Poland with mere politics
>tore apart a dying nation by making an agreement with other big guys
>Frederick did the most of it anyway
Wow such an achievement.

>stabilized country
Yes, because 18th century Russia became such an administrative heaven, didn't it?

>lose a war because you fuck a horse and die
>"great"
>>
>>500220
frederick did nothing, she shown compassion toward this little guy and his useless country because they both were prussian
catherine was beloved of the people because she defeated biggest rival and killed the her useless predecessor, thats why she's great.
>>
>>500320
>catherine was beloved of the people because she defeated biggest rival and killed the her useless predecessor, thats why she's great.
I'm pretty sure it's because she fucked everyone in Russian politics and was great in bed.
>>
I think Alexander is definitely the person most deserving of the title 'the great'. He smashed his way through every army from one edge of the known world to the other, often while hugely outnumbered. And in doing so he brought down the greatest empire the world had seen up to that point, an empire which encompassed between a quarter and half of all the people on the planet, and at the end of it turned greece from a marginally important backwater into the source of a culture that would dominate europe and western asia for a millennia.

Other people called 'the Great' tend to be important largely only to their own country's history. And they just tended to speed up processes rather than totally change the game. The Franks would probably have kept expanding in western Europe without Charlemagne; Russia would probably have wrested control of the baltic from sweden eventually without peter. Without alexander Greece might have gone on to dominate western asia minor, but there's no way in hell it would have ended up founding cities in Afghanistan. Alexander was the only one who completely flipped the world on its head. The only individual historical figure who is even comparable is Genghis Khan, and his creation had considerably less staying power; China doesn't have any Mongolian relics in its culture today, a mere 800 years after Temujin came along, whereas the very name of the board we're discussing this on is derived from 'history', which is a word of Greek origin.
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>least deserving

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_known_as_The_Great

probably all the Thai/Siam ones considering that they seem to attach "the great" to all of their rulers
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>>499479
>Napoleon the Great
Who?
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>>498872
>Mithridiates
>"The Great"

Pontus is a joke
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>>500220
>win a war because your opponent dies
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>>502103
>winning a war with your opponent still alive
not much of a win desu
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>>502134
>All these Peter the great haters

>Turned Russia from an backwards shithole into a european power
>Defeated the Swedish Empire
>Build the Russian Navy (in a country that didn't even have any access to the coast at that time
>Turned the Russian Army from a semi-modernized clusterfuck into a modern european-style army
If it wasn't for Peter Russia would propably have ended upo the same way Poland did.
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>>503162
You're completely right. I wish Poland had such leader that would reform the country.
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>>498589
Most Alexander followed by Charlemagne

Least Catherine

Literally nothing that other Czar didn't do
>>
>>503162
Peter the Great first emperor of the Russians >>>>>>> Catherine "der große" who killed an autistic german fag to get into power

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wojI4sQO5M0
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>>503206
Cathrine is kind of problematic.
Basically she wanted to reform a lot of the social inequality in Russia but rolled it back because of the quarrels of the French Revolution.

To be honest (and to refute my previous point) Peter isn't even that great (like most 'the Great's are really). A LOT of the stuiff that is attributed to him had massive groundwork by his predecessors. For example the Army already DID have european-style units, just not in the quantity that Peter would later institutre.
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>>498742
This, also Alexander. Nobody else.
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>>499444
The greatest cuck maybe
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Mostly for the disproportionate ammount of butthurt that powerful women create on board.
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>>503228
Peter conquered Siberia
Reformed the aristocracy and turn it western
Created a navy based on the Dutch navy (he even built ships to learn how to)
Created a totally western army
Sweet warm ports at the black sea
Defeated the turks at the peak of their power
Proclaimed the Russian Empire
Founded Saint Petersburg and build a shack him self

Now what did that german lucky princess? she was friend with Voltaire and now she is a beam of enlightenment in Russia? fuck off
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>>503251
>Berenguela la gran puta
Fixed
>>
Why does Alexander get so much credit for defeating an empire that had already been beat down by a plague and 200 years of war under poor leadership.

Alexander didn't even build an empire, he left a trail of destroyed cities with almost no effort to administrate the conquered territory. He was a total psychopath.

His 'empire' collapsed immediately after his death.

Literally just Alexander the Great at murdering Persians
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>>499403
This is not a place for such normative bullshit, regardless of any merit your words may have.
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>>503270
He liberated greek cities who suffered under the persian tyranny, also he rekt the biggest army in the world.
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>>503270
exactly, for some reason everyone thinks Alexander did positive stuff but everyone also says that Genghis khan was bad
they were two sides of same coin, genociding people for no reason
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>>503277
>persian tyranny

Propaganda mate.
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>>503293
So proskynesis was just a propaganda move?
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>>503303

Alexander was a weeb, he loved asian shit
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>>498803
Stop bullying Antiochos already. Took back the east, took asia minor, thrace and koile syria putting Ptolemies on suicide watch crying to Rome. Just lost thrace and asia minor to the romans who cares anyway. His heirs barely paid what Rome wanted and they didn't care. If he knew the Romans would go apeshit in Greece he would have taken more men in the first place and would have fucked Glabrio with a sarissa. He was great.
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>>503253
>Reformed the aristocracy and turn it western
A process that started under his predecessors, but 80% of the work was Peter, I'll admit
>Created a navy based on the Dutch navy (he even built ships to learn how to)
100% Peter
>Created a totally western army
Like I said the Russian Army when peter came to power was like 60% European-style troops (who would often be used ineffectivly and thus perform sub-par) , All the important groundwork was already done by his predecessors. Peter had the choice to keep the level or modernize the army further. Considering his bad aquintance with the Strel'tsy (the traditional Infantry) who also started to become somewhat like the Janissaries, one could argue that he may have only wanted to weaken their influence.
>Sweet warm ports at the black sea
>Defeated the turks at the peak of their power
After getting rekt during the crimean campaign and then going for Azov. Still a Victory but not as great as it could've been.
>Founded Saint Petersburg and build a shack him self
A lot of St.Peterburgs beauty would come later and it would still struggle with Moscow over beeing the actual capital

Not saying Peter wasn't great but his military accomplishments and Reforms are somewhat overrated.
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>>498589
Jay Gatsby.
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theres only one
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>>503333
Quads confirm the greatness of the Seleukid dynasty!
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>>499681
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, what I've been using for most of my life is \char-le-mayn\ or something close. Is my name.
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>>500682
>genghis khan or Alexander the Great are historically important

When will this meme die?

>Alexander the great is the source of Greek culture
Lol

>other people called "the great" tend to be important only in their own country's history
Lol

>history is of Greek origin
>implying the Greeks had anything to do with that
>implying it wasn't because Latin and French scholars decided to use the term
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>>503995
>genghis khan not important
>killed about quarter of world, took many centuries for persia to repopulate lands he genocided
>his empire raped most of muslim world back into stone age
>>
>ctrl+f 'Gregory'
>Phrase not found

Shameful, /his/. No respect for the man who defined the Papacy, the Church as we know it, and most of Western Europe for the subsequent 500 years?
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>>504029
>his empire raped most of muslim world back into stone age
And even bigger meme. Considering that the Post-Mongol years of 1400's-1600s was like a second Islamic Golden age of sorts under the Ottoman/Safavid/Mughal Empires.
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>>499479
>Least deserving: Peter the Great of Russian Empire
>Modernized Russia
>Created Navy
>Defeated Sweden
>Founded new capitol
>Centralized power
>>
>>504267
Most people in his are memers who use ad-hoc attacks and spout as much shit as they can.
>>
It was not part of their blood,
It came to them very late,
With long arrears to make good,
When the Saxon began to hate.

They were not easily moved,
They were icy — willing to wait
Till every count should be proved,
Ere the Saxon began to hate.

Their voices were even and low.
Their eyes were level and straight.
There was neither sign nor show
When the Saxon began to hate.

It was not preached to the crowd.
It was not taught by the state.
No man spoke it aloud
When the Saxon began to hate.

It was not suddently bred.
It will not swiftly abate.
Through the chilled years ahead,
When Time shall count from the date
That the Saxon began to hate.
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>>503194
Agreed, she basically just did what Peter had been doing, and took all the credit.
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>>499584
It's from the Latin version of his name
Carolus Magnus
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>>499584
In American we just call him Charlie the Man
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>>503815
Your name is Charlemagne?
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>>504345

poem is gay/10 and has bad cadence too.
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>>498589
Most deserving: Alexander, hands down

Least deserving: I know it's a meme, but gotta go with Catherine

>>498803
>Napoleon.

This Napoleon meme needs to die. He lost the entire French and Spanish fleet, he shat on the republican values by proclaiming himself emperor, he lost just as many soldiers as he killed in battle - all in all 3 million, and in the end he lost everything he had gained.

In the end he fucked half of Europe up and changed nothing. It's like the head-of-state version of the wolf of wall street.
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>>504415
Yeah.
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>>504560
What does it feel to be named after one of the greatest christian heroes in an infested kebab country?
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>>498589
Frederick William, Elector of Brandenburg
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>>504763
should elaborate: he was called the great elector because he pushed the Brandenburg from a minimal power to a rising star and was the base by which the Prussian Empire came to be
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>>504718
It sucks. People think it's a girl 's name.
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>>504393
Charles good boe
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>>498838
Sejong.
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>>498751
Top kek
>>
Constantine, just in how his decisions shaped the entire world to this day.
>>
Alex, dude kicked Persian ass
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>>503375
I mean compared to the majority of other leaders in Russian history he did very well.
>>
>>498838
Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden
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>>498856
XII?
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>>499493
A balancing act could have been struck had his immediate successor just kept paying people off, and even that wouldn't have been as big of a problem had the plague not hit the empire. Not his fault.

Invading Spain was pretty pointless however. Should have done something about the Avars while they were smaller, then they could have handled the Slavs better.
>>
>>499469
You mean he really was a headless demon who killed a trillion people? Tbh pham I'd call someone like that 'the Great'.
>>
What have I done? If this is a victory, what's a defeat then? Is this a victory or a defeat? Is this justice or injustice? Is it gallantry or a rout? Is it valor to kill innocent children and women? Did I do it to widen the empire and for prosperity or to destroy the other's kingdom and splendor? One has lost her husband, someone else a father, someone a child, someone an unborn infant.... What's this debris of the corpses? Are these marks of victory or defeat? Are these vultures, crows, eagles the messengers of death or evil?

t. Ashoka Maurya
>>
>least
Catherine
>most
James K. Polk
;_;7
>>
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>>510030
>tfw no epiphany on the field of battle
>no going turboautismo and creating a peaceful realm that stretches from sea to sea.
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>>504767
this. he laid the foundation for Frederick II's greatness
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>>503279
Because alexander's legacy was hellenistic middle east and egypt.

Timuchin's was burning baghdad
>>
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