>>52943581 >delusions of grandeur This happens only in shit universities.
In good universities for CS, the people who are towards the top of the class are the ones who are their for their interest in the field, who would be majoring in CS whether or not it would make them money in the future.
>the people who are towards the top of the class are the ones who are their for their interest in the field, who would be majoring in CS whether or not it would make them money in the future
These people rapidly develop a burning hatred of undergrad CS classes (and CS majors) and leave for the math and engineering departments so they can spend their class time actually learning material at a decent clip.
>>52947465 shit for real?? I just switched over from bio to comp sci cause I couldn't into chemistry maybe it's not to late to look into SE. I kinda hate my professors and TAs for class anyways and it's only the 3rd week
>>52947962 absolutely, assuming your SE program isn't a joke
it should require at the very least calculus 3, some form of linear algebra and diff eq on top of having regular computer science like data structures, digital logic, etc. With that core in mind, it will also have software engineering courses that focus on applicable skills, like understanding and building software requirements for a project, probably some project based course where you're expected to use semi modern tooling like git and some static analysis tools with some sort of semi agile setup, classes focused on unit testing / design, etc.
Anyone here doing medical school and programming on the side? I'd appreciate some guidance. I'm doing my thesis this year in a bioinformatics lab but how do I keep myself active in the bioinformatics field once I have to deal with medical school? Wait why the fuck am I asking /g/
>getting a B.S. in math and a B.S. in CS >the only classes I struggle with are math ones >CS I literally only need to study night before and get a better grade than most Of course it's undergrad math so I haven't even touched troo mathematics, and there are people who do it with hardly any struggle. Seriously though, reminds me of some math thread a few days ago and some dude mentioned he can explain how he got the closed function for sum(k=1 to n) of k^2 and some CS fag said "we all know how to do induction dude". >creating closed functions >induction lmao
>delusions of grandeur >making $100,000+ a year >quality money
It's like everyone who shits on CS majors are just mad because they're making bank???
I'm at a college where they don't even teach CS because the professors are all at actual universities like CU Boulder, CSU, and the University of Mines (Colorado) because those students have to actually have to TRY to get in.
>>52948696 >I can't imagine what kind of garbage CS program you must have been in. I had to study intensively most of the semester to get >80 grades, and then revise hard before the exam A decent one. It's probably more funded than the math and physics departments combined. There are good professors who challenge you, but they obviously have more emphasis on the mathematical aspect and overdo workload.
>>52943609 A* is actually an algorithm that operates on directed graphs though. Whether or not a given heuristic produces a correct solution, and the performance in doing so, are both theorems of graph theory. How is it not graph theory?
>>52949818 >>52949860 >>52949908 >>52949889 all this stuff totally depends on the engineering/cs programs in question. theres plenty of shite cs programs or ones that just teach programming. im sure there are many neato cs programs too.
Holy shit you kids are young. There's no difference between a CS degree or an engineering degree or an English degree or a basket weaving degree. You know your shit and get the job you want or you don't. Saying "this major is better than that major!" is like saying the band you liked in elementary school is better than some other band someone else liked. "BACKSTREET BOYS IS BETTER THAN N'SYNC" is all I'm seeing.
>>52943581 >ask CS student friend how's college >he says pretty boring >ask him what he's studying right now >he says some weird named algorithm >ask him what's the use of the algorithm, since I'm in a game dev school student (we learn about a lot of algorithms and theorems to detect collision and distance and stuff) so it might be useful to me >"god knows man haha "
>>52943581 I was in chemistry for a while. It's actually way easier than CS at the undergrad level, but that's not saying much since CS is easy too. Most natural science fields like chem, physics, bio, etc. pretty much guarantee that you'll be an academia cuck your whole life. Either you bottom out at the bachelor's level and get a shitty job as a lab tech for $40k a year, or you get a Ph.D. and your career revolves around writing research papers. I don't find that lifestyle to be appealing at all.
>>52950595 This is also patently not true, chem majors at my university required no maths beyond calc II whereas CS majors require calc III, linear algebra, and statistics
>>52943581 because 90% of them are virgins who spent all of high school playing world of warcraft. they need something to cope with the fact that they're not as smart as the real engineering disciplines :)
>>52943768 Not OP, but a friend of mine already had a degree, and now they're doing comp sci. Right now they're working in some sysadmin capacity. I'm earning more than them. By the time they graduate and get that $100k job they so covet, I'll still be earning more than them. I've never cared about money, even when I was poor, and that seems to have worked in my favour.
>>52948885 >I taught myself law No, you memorised some paltry pieces of legislation relevant to your circumstances, and the specific court's procedures. A monkey could do that.
Furthermore, if you messed that up, you would look a total fool. Don't be under any illusion, you're not even as competent with the law as a first semester first year law student.
Can't talk for the anglo countries but CS (it's called Informatics here) most definitely has it's place in Germany. It's the main degree here if you're about to get into anything in this field. If it's cash you're after here, you should rather study "Wirtschaftsinformatik" which is kind of silimiar to your Information Systems. But I chose Informatics because it's what I like and I hate business adiministration.
>>52953412 >Does Wirtschaftsinformatik really earn you more? Yes, especially when it comes to higher positions. >>52953429 no, that's "technische informatik". "Wirtschaftsinformatik" includes lots of business administration.
>>52943581 >Why do CS majors have such delusions of grandeur?
Because computers are like video games.
They are the default hobby.
Everyone has a computer and plays video game in their youth. But autistic neckbeards who never leave their room and aren't smart enough to cultivate interesting hobbies just fall back on muh PC and muh vidya and muh animu
>>52953165 >So, you're going to CS just to get laid? And discuss FOSS? And drink beer?
I'm doing it because it's fun and it separates me from the code monkeys. A formal education is more rigorous than self-taught anyway. Tell me more about how you're a professional self-taught programmer in Microsoft™ India division telephone tech consulting.
>>52953364 >>mfw i could add 2 courses and end up having a full bachelor of maths
Not all math bachelors are created equal since everything pass differential equations is an elective. CS+math doubles always seem to take the high school level classes like naive set theory, number theory (the kind without algebra or analysis), graph theory (no algebra), combinatorics (no analysis), "advanced calculus" (their "analysis" done at the level of a rigorous calculus book like Spivak/Abbot), "algebra" (at Fraleigh/Gallian/Pinter crash course level), linear algebra, etc and avoid any real exposure to mathematics.
>The following computer science courses are required: >15-128: Freshman Immigration Course* >15-122: Principles of Imperative Computation** >15-150: Principles of Functional Programming >15-210: Parallel and Sequential Data Structures and Algorithms >15-213: Introduction to Computer Systems >15-251: Great Theoretical Ideas in Computer Science >15-451: Algorithm Design and Analysis
>Five mathematics courses are required. >21-120: Differential and Integral Calculus >21-122: Integration and Approximation >21-127: Concepts of Mathematics >One of the following Linear Algebra courses: 21-241: Matrices and Linear Transformations; 21-242: Matrix Theory; 21-341: Linear Algebra >One of the following Probability courses: 15-359: Probability and Computing; 21-325: Probability; 36-217: Probability Theory and Random Processes; 36-225: Introduction to Probability Theory
No automata and computability, no complexity theory, no architecture, no OS design, no compilers, no networks, no algebra, no analysis, no combinatorics, no graph theory, no statistics, no vector calculus, no diffeqns, no numerical analysis, no nothing. It's shit Jim. You have to sacrifice your elective courses to shore up your foundation.
They don't even have a CS program. They've recognized there's not enough there in underage and created a EECS program instead which is much closer to CpE than CS.
Similar to CMU: No OS design, no compilers, no advanced complexity theory, no networks, no algebra, no analysis, no combinatorics, no graph theory, no statistics, no vector calculus, no diffeqns, no numerical analysis, no nothing.
>>52949860 can confirm, my comp sci program is pretty math heavy, weakling classmates complain all the time about how we haven't been doing any gui stuff because they want to show off their cool java programming skillz
>>52956050 >A formal education is more rigorous than self-taught anyway.
Tell that to any PhD. The cookie cutter approach allows for easier mass instruction (public school) and differentiation rank based on a common test curriculum, but at some point one can only advance through guided but self teaching, to achieve a higher level of understanding.
>>52960494 >>52960638 Holy shit, is /g/ actually having a dick measuring contest about sciences and engineering? Everyone in this thread is fucking pathetic, there's pioneers that have affected the world in every field of science, stop acting like children and maybe one day you'll also contribute something to society.
>>52960736 What other majors out there are built around online communities where you can work on and contribute to projects while sitting on your ass at your own home, with no startup cost other than owning any computer?
1. Yes you can get very far with book learning alone without access to experts or the latest published research papers, to the point of being able to reach the cutting edge. See Ramanujan.
2. No, even if you are a genius and you manage to acquire the latest research papers, you will lack the background knowledge required to understand them. There are typically no books explaining cutting edge research, meaning you have to be in contact with the researchers to understand their research.
3. The fundamentals of CS and math are easy to learn but when proving theorems it is easy to make mistakes, this is where having fellow mathematicians and computer scientists comes in handy. If you insist on self-study and building on theorems that nobody else has checked be prepared to face the possibility of everything falling down later on.
>>52960931 >this is where having fellow mathematicians and computer scientists comes in handy. If you insist on self-study and building on theorems that nobody else has checked be prepared to face the possibility of everything falling down later on. Hence >>52960764
You can have your work critiqued and get advice by experts without any formal teaching
The subject matter is very easy to absorb. Read CLRS, Kozen, Arora & Barak, Patterson & Hennessy, APUE, Tanenbaum & Wetherall, the dinosaur book, the dragon book, TAPL, Russell & Norvig, Gang of 4 and the Mythical Man Month and you'll know more than most majors.
>>52961218 Yeah, I doubt the average person could understand even half of those on his own, you're clearly talking about intelligent people, it's definitely not 'easy' to learn CS on your own. You're greatly overestimating an average person's understanding of basic math, let alone calculus and discrete math
No fucking shit you need to have an IQ in the double digits to self-study. What he's saying that it's very easy for a reasonably intelligent person to learn CS on his own, which is only true for intro-level undergrad CS.
You can't get to the latest research by reading books unless you're creating a new field by yourself.
>>52961271 >You're greatly overestimating an average person's understanding of basic math, let alone calculus and discrete math >>52961433 >The average person can barely comprehend derivatives, retard.
Everyone who graduates high school in Europe learns calculus. Americans ≢ human beings
>>52961479 Nice try but I'm European, here people choose one of three 'directions' and you can avoid calculus, but even if you choose the 2 that include calculus doesn't mean you'll graduate having learned shit, teachers will just give you a passing grade.
>>52943581 Because dumb fucks that think they're king Midas think they can get a degree in CS and turn their class projects into gold flock to that major. >I don't think this will be League of Legends level of popularity, but it's definitely going to have competitions going - my dumb fuck stoner capstone partner
>>52961445 Anyone with a brain can prove every major theorem about generating functions over the course of a lunch break. Any longer and you'd have to be a retarded CS major or something. Math master race, 300k starting, enjoy being a codemonkey.
CStards think knowing academia buzzwords and abstract academia concepts that won't pay a penny in the real world are going to get them 300K starting when in reality the majority of them are facing 60K starting unstable code monkey careers.
CS at this point is just normals that fell for the "computahz are da fudure:DDDD" meme and have no actual clue about how to make a living.
CS was good ten years ago when infrastructure needed to be built and code abstraction was low to the point where there needed to be skilled experts for individual machines.
>>52943581 I dropped my shit when they said they learn more math than engineering or especially physics majors. Got a few friends majoring in physics. They have more math requirements depending on what they study than eng., for eng. it's mostly do it in your free time or take class if you want to get better at it or you actually want to understand certain courses better. Plus, your degree doesn't make you badass, you can be still fucking stupid with a physics degree (experience). You make a degree sound badass when you actually know what you're doing.
I get why pure CS fags think that way though, most of them don't know shit and they're too stupid (mostly) to actually do a research with heavy math (and they can't into physics or engineering), so all they do is call REST APIs at work (cause they only get the shit jobs) and cry on 4chin. CS ed. is mostly a joke too. Their calculus is joke tier compared to engineering/physics calc. Only a few discr.math and algo. courses are worth something.
>>52943581 CS is okay I guess. I did that and philosophy.
Most of the mathematics in CS is much simpler than the formal logic courses I chose to take for my philosophy degree (which was ~70% of my philosophy electives.)
It was just really jarring seeing how differently the faculty treat CS students in comparison to the students in philosophy classes though. All the CS profs treated us like we were idiots.
Also, if you think CS majors suffer delusions of grandeur, you haven't met the stereotypical self-aggrandizing philosophy majors. The CS majors are pretty tame by comparison, but definitely more socially stunted.
>>52965364 Holy fuck. I only looked at the loop and at first I didn't notice half asleep. Then I saw the name of it and realized what it does. I almost died from the realization that iq can be negative. I'm sure there's some fucking asshole out there deliberately making these cs major memes to kill people.
>>52943581 About to graduate and I have 100k job lined up in Texas. Probably gonna move to Washington in a couple years and try to get 130-50k. CS is fucking easy if you're not retarded socially or technically.
>>52966383 I mean if you don't know what you're doing it's not bad but think of it this way. The teacher has to deal with hundreds of other shitty kids with no know-how who don't initialize them and have things fuck up as a result.
>>52967774 >https://www.cs.utexas.edu/undergraduate-program/academics/curriculum/courses >The old curriculum had eleven CS courses that students were required to take, leaving little time for electives. The new curriculum has only six >Programming 312 Introduction to Programming OR 312H Introduction to Programming: Honors 314 Data Structures OR 314H Data Structures Honors >Systems 429 Computer Organization and Architecture OR 429H Computer Organization and Architecture: Honors 439 Principles of Computer Systems OR 439H Principles of Computer Systems: Honors >Theory 311 Discrete Math for Computer Science OR 311H Discrete Math for Computer Science: Honors 331 Algorithms and Complexity OR 331H Algorithms and Complexity: Honors >Math M 408N: Calculus 1 M 408S: Calculus 2 SDS 321 or M362K: Statistics & Probability (3) M 340L or SDS 329C: Linear Algebra (3)
>>52962310 If anything it's all the other STEMfags who come and cry on 4chin, just look at this fucking thread that's posted every other day. Also, who are you kidding, CS has easily the best job opportunities than any science. Enjoy being a cuckademic the rest of your life.
>>52968041 >Fall 1 Calculus I Intro to Proofs and Abstract Mathematics Physics I Chem I or Bio I Intro to Programming Technical Writing
>Spring 1 Calculus II Matrix Algebra Physics II Chem II or Bio II Digital Logic and Automata Data Structures Problem Solving and Heuristic (Seminar)
>Fall 2 Vector Calculus Physics III Electrical Engineering Fundamentals Computer Architecture Algorithm I Combinatorics and Graph Theory I Unix and System Development (Seminar)
>Spring 2 ODEs and Dynamical Systems Probability and Statistics Mathematical Logic Parallel, Distributed, and GPU Programming Operating Systems Numerical Analysis I Debugging and Source Control (Seminar)
>Fall 3 Abstract Algebra I Real Analysis Modern Geometry Algorithm II Programming Languages and Compilers I FPGAs, Microcontrollers and Driver Development Documentation (Seminar)
>Spring 3 Abstract Algebra II Combinatorics and Graph Theory II Numerical Analysis II Systems and Signal Analysis Computability and Complexity Theory Compilers II and Type Theory Database Theory (Seminar)
>Fall 4 Complex Variables and PDEs Algebraic Number Theory Computer Graphics and Image Processing Linear and Convex Optimization Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning Internet, Networks and Communication Systems Professionalism, Ethics, and Conduct (Seminar)
>Spring 4 Randomized and Approximation Algorithms Computer Vision, Control Theory and Robotics Computer Security and Cryptography Quantum Computing Software Engineering Essentials Macro and Micro Economics Personal Grooming and Hygiene (Seminar)
>>52968510 Yes, a CS major should know something about each of those areas.
>>52968594 You misunderstand, I'm saying all undergraduate CS programs are garbage. To cover the full core of CS and have room for additional electives would require at least 5 years and is just not possible.
>>52946186 Truth If you honestly think cs is the only way to make big cash please an hero I've met people who make 100k+ on jobs that most of you consider "below" you Honestly if you want some good cash in preparation for your degree you should learn a skilled trade and make some before you go to school, the paper isn't everything
Why all the hate against CS? It's the easiest way to make big bucks if you are not thick, and not to mention you get to travel. >born in 3rd world >learn me english >worked in UK already >working in yurop now >can blow up money like nothing Does any other major offer this?
>>52972064 Yeah I read it but the piece of paper you'll get will say computer science not computer engineering, and since companies focus on what your paper says when entering the workforce, I want to make sure they understand I didn't just take electives on it but majored completely.
My 'Applied Computing' degree in the UK was basically a software engineering course with networking, some algorithms I can't remember and practical skills and other shit tacked on.
Haven't had a problem finding a well paying job and work for a software company based in California now.
The computer scienTISTS (basically the people in this thread) in the US office built most of our bankend that is an absolute clusterfuck of shit that me and the other in UK are have to write from scratch again.
>>52972100 >Yeah I read it but the piece of paper you'll get will say computer science not computer engineering Literally no one except /g/ cares
>and since companies focus on what your paper says when entering the workforce Wrong
Companies focus on what classes you took, what projects you have done, where you've interned, what you did for extracurricular activities etc.
>I want to make sure they understand I didn't just take electives on it but majored completely. Your approach to college/uni is upsetting me. Why would you care more about a fancy degree on a piece of paper than actually doing something worthwhile and something you can be proud of?
>>52943581 >study maths at uni >my classes are in the same building as cs classes >sometimes i'm working in a lab and a cs class is taking place in the room >literally 90% of the students are niggers and pakis
>>52972136 Because I'm not in the US and here you're judged on what degree you have and years of work experience, we don't have major software development companies and I'll probably have to work on computer system maintenance in a bank or something of the sort.
>>52972212 >Because I'm not in the US Neither am I
>and here you're judged on what degree you have and years of work experience The degree is literally a piece of paper. You are judged on work experience, yes, but you do realise that what you do during your time in college is considered experience too?
>we don't have major software development companies and I'll probably have to work on computer system maintenance in a bank or something of the sort. Computer science is not a degree in software development. No serious employer thinks this.
I have a degree in computer science (because of all the computer science math), but all my electables are basically hardware courses. I currently work as a hardware engineer and I spend more time doing Verilog and using oscilloscopes than programming.
>>52950674 >do undergrad in chem >lab tech at a research startup during last year >graduate and don't get accepted to grad school >over next 3 company blows up and scales up massively >make 400k year as director of operations
for some reason i still feel like a babby for not having a PhD
>Containing exercises and materials that engage students at all levels, Discrete Mathematics with Ducks presents a gentle introduction for students who find the proofs and abstractions of mathematics challenging. Containing exercises and materials that engage students at all levels, Discrete Mathematics with Ducks presents a gentle introduction for students who find the proofs and abstractions of mathematics challenging.
BECAUSE THIS IS NOT HOW WE TEACH ON /g/! HERE WE THROW INSULTS AT EACH OTHER! CALL SOMEONE A GAY NIGGER WHO SHOULD RETURN TO SPACE IS HOW WE SAY "Hello!" HERE!
>>52968025 >CS has easily the best job opportunities than any science. Indeed. Basically most degrees have better job opportunities than a pure science degree. So if you want good job opportunities then sure CS is one way to go. >Enjoy being a cuckademic the rest of your life. I don't know where you get that.
I wasn't talking about job opportunities there though. Lot of CS grads can't actually program (on a competent level). So they get shit tier jobs if they get any. You mostly have two choices either do the math part academically or in the industry(most grads are way too stupid to even understand some of the more complex algorithms) or get into the industry as a programmer. The job you get depends on how good programmer you are though. Most grad guys are doing exactly what I wrote there: calling REST APIs all day and writing "business apps". All that shit is fucking boring. In fact the problem with pure CS is that it's boring and very narrow-minded compared to engineering (especially when you study something interdisciplinary). At least for me it is.
>>52974179 You have valid points but my point was that if you want to be a programmer, you need a CS degree, there's no way around it, maybe in America you don't but there's no way you'd find a job without one, no matter how good you are.
So, yes, lots of CS grads will be lost after they get their degree because they're either too stupid or they haven't worked on their skills by themselves and expected to get good just by going to school but that's pretty much the same for any science and eng.
>>52975057 >So, yes, lots of CS grads will be lost after they get their degree because they're either too stupid or they haven't worked on their skills by themselves and expected to get good just by going to school but that's pretty much the same for any science and eng. Agreed. >You have valid points but my point was that if you want to be a programmer, you need a CS degree, I can mostly agree with that too. I'm from Europe though and looking around here a CS degree is not a must, but a related degree is. Although a CS degree tops it. With a related degree you need a lot more effort and a company which can actually think.
>>52975182 >>52975057 Oh, shit. What I forgot to add is that "my problem" is that CS doesn't weed out incompetents as much as engineering does. I see this at my uni, but others from other unis say this too. Seeing the curriculum of the programs I can see the difference. For CS the Mathematical Logic, Formal languages, Complexity theory, Automata Theory and related classes are the ones usually making students shit themselves, but because they usually ask them to solve some well-known type of problems they can pass it. On the other hand in electronics and digital electronics laboratory you need to make a report and actually design a circuit and build it and debug it. Calculus is also lighter for pure CS guys. In signal and systems course you need to be able to open a fucking book and review the required math from calc in depth and learn math which wasn't covered there that much to actually understand the topic so you can pass the exam. Control theory heavily builds on sigsys too. In microcontroller lab. you can't copy-paste from stack-overflow you need to actually program the device and you need to read the circuit diagram to see how it's connected. All in all CS usually misses the real do this yourself kind of classes or when it has them it's not taken seriously enough.
>>52975758 What does it matter? /g/ is almost entirely teen and early 20's NEETs and college students, not employers or people with any sort of real world experience under their belts. Threads like these are just like the "I'm gonna join the military" circle jerks of 17 year olds where they argue about which branch is tougher.
>>52976377 >They care. They care that you have A degree.
They don't care about the KIND OF degree, which is why they always write "Candidate must have the equivalent of a BSc/MSc in Computer Science, Computer Engineering, Software Engineering, Mathematics, Electrical Engineering etc"
>But CS math is watered down compared to CpE math. This meme is seriously becoming tiresome.
Also, thank you for replying to a post I made 5 hours ago.
>>52977678 >implying undergrad CS majors are on par with PhD mathematicians
>>52978306 >Not sure if trolling are actually this stupid
Those higher-level CS courses are a JOKE. There's barely any math in CLRS, there's barely any math in Sipser, there barely any math in any book CS majors claim to be "basically just fucking applied mathematics".
>inB4 more ad hominems because you can't accept the fact that CS isn't a super special snowflake degree that any other STEM major could learn it in less than a quarter of the time it takes CS majors to.
Dude, just let the delusional compsci majors live in their own dreamworld. Everyone else knows how incompetent they are so there is no need to waste your breath arguing with them. If they could learn, they wouldn't be compsci majors in the first place.
>>52943581 No-one who spent more than a year in CS would claim it involves particularly hard maths, but it's still ahead of code monkey SE. Why do EEs and other STEM majors spend all their time crying about CS?
>>52947992 >Introductory texts are pathetically trivial Top patrician analysis there
>>52950303 That looks like a pretty typical course at a Russell group Uni yes
>>52953671 They're the retards everyone else in the course hates. If you actually like CS it means you like algorithms, information theory, discrete maths etc. not "making muh vidya wtf are quarternions lel"
>>52957947 >>52960647 see >>52960660 Self-taught programmers seem to just teach themselves syntax and implementation and don't give any thought to what they're doing beyond "does it compile?"
>>52960494 "Computer Scientists" are the first to admit that the name is retarded
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