>>52930746 Nah I think liberals are spineless pussies. But I also think conservatives are gigantic cunts. I think everyone except government is against the Patriot act. But the average person doesn't want to think about it.
Ignorance is bliss. What was the point of your thread? This seems like politics.
>>52931152 But wait, there's more! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm5Je73bYOY
>>52931160 It's not the jews as people, so much as it is the fact that they've become synonymous with the oligarchy that's fucking over our country. They control the corporations, they control the media, and they increasingly control the government.
I would describe myself as "economically liberal, socially conservative"
austerity policies are universally failures, welfare and health care and other social safety nets are absolutely necessary for a functioning society, capitalism is only morally justifiable under tight regulation and control, but boy do I not want to be around Liberals and their identity politics and victim competitions
>>52931241 Being socially liberal doesn't necessarily equate to engaging in gender politics and all that garbage. I'm socially liberal and couldn't give a shit about gender politics. There's parts of socially liberal policy that are just common sense, like ending the drug war, legalising or decriminalising certain substances, permitting gay marriage, stuff that hurts nobody.
>>52931292 I would be happy for my tax money to go to sexual reassignment surgery, counselling and support groups for those struggling with gender identity, etc. I don't want deal with the neoreactionary distraction tactics used by liberals to keep the lower classes estranged from each other, in order to protect the status quo. I would not call myself a feminist, but I believe that their aims and works are admirable, when taken in totality. The thing is, a lot of people have taken revolutionary dialectic and tried to fit it into a fundamentally bourgeois lifestyle and that's where you end up with neon-haired screaming competitions achieving nothing but social posturing. There is real work to be done on our social system, and it is not being achieved by facebook like campaigns and outraged op eps on gawker outlets.
>>52931372 No you're not, you're putting your money into a giant pot and allowing qualified doctors to send it wherever its needed. If the doctors decide that gender reassignment deserves some infinitesimally small fraction of that money, then whatever, there's more important things to worry about.
>>52931361 It absolutely is >>52931372 bullshit. Gender dysphoria is an absolutely real condition, and over and above that, it is every person's right to look whatever way they wish to; the only reasonable limit is set by what amount can be conscionably expended on granting this to them. For example, a person with disfiguring—but non-disabling—burn scars on their face, could reasonable request "cosmetic surgery" to reduce the impact. A person with a large birthmark under one eye could reasonably request a procedure to deal with it. A person who wishes to appear female could reasonably request a surgery to make them appear more female. This is not the sort of issue I am addressing.
>>52931462 That's simply untrue, and even if we granted the claim that capitalism is the only functional method of distribuition, it would still only be ethical to perpetuate so far as it served the people. It is unacceptable, from any civilized viewpoint, to coerce someone to enrich another. Note that this is distinct from compelling a person to contribute to a social system that provides for the welfare of any who require it, despite what free-market zealots would have you believe
>>52931496 You can have a y chromosome and exhibit male physical characteristics, and still wish that this was not the case, as a result of mental pathology or personal preference, and it is reasonable to provide support for someone who exhibits soundness of mind and wishes to alter said characteristics if they cannot provide it for themselves.
>>52931565 Yes, provided they were necessary, or were low-risk/low-cost enough so as not to compromise a more necessary procedure. Degree of necessitude would have to be assessed on a case-by-case basis, of course, but I have nothing against cosmetic—even purely recreational—surgery
>>52931659 Gender Identity Disorder is defined in the standard psychology/psychiatrist handbook DSM IV as a disease. Why shouldn't it be treated the same as any other illness, despite having been hugely politicised by socially conservative people?
>>52931659 Sure it is. Why not? So long as they are of sound mind while making the choice, or suffering from an intractible condition that prevents them from being satisfied with their appearance, why shouldn't support be provided to someone who wishes to alter their body?
>>52931691 we certainly do—we acknowledge that they experience those perceptions, and give them coping mechanisms to deal with them, and if a medical procedure could reduce the intensity and frequency of those delusions it would be unethical to refuse it to them if they requested it while in a stable frame of mind.
>>52931678 Because you don't treat a mental illness which makes some people believe they are Napoleon by having them go through surgery to make their body fit their distorted self-concept. You treat that with pills and therapy.
>>52931691 >>52931712 We treat them using the generally accepted treatment protocol which is medication. The generally accepted treatment protocol amongst medical professionals for GID is surgery. If there was medication that made GID go away, I'm sure that would be prescribed instead.
>>52931678 It should be treated as other illnesses not > we are so proud of out for coming out > here we can chop off your Rick and balls so you can pretend to be a chick > please tell me you don't think that is a normal thing to remove your sex organs
>>52931710 But we sure don't call them jesus and slay our firstborn children in their honor. What you're suggesting is reinforcing the delusions instead of supplying them with the treatment they need to make them stop (in this case antipsychotics).
>>52931712 What if they want to look like napoleon, even after going through therapy and treatments to deal with their self-perception as napoleon? Is there anything necessarily wrong with providing a napoleon costume to them, if it makes them happier and more comfortable in their daily life?
>>52931744 No, because that requires us to do harm to others. That would not be justifiable. However, if they wished to dress like jesus, and wear long hair, so long as this choice was made of sound mind or because it alleviated their symptoms to do so, that would be fine.
>>52931846 >That doesn't exist for GID Yes it does. It's called stop pretending a person with a Y chromosome is a woman. The number of gender changes is exploding exponentially. You can't honestly believe that there were originally this many closeted people out there, were you? It's an acquired social habit that's now spreading like wildfire.
>>52931897 >You can't honestly believe that there were originally this many closeted people out there, were you It's not really for you or I to determine that. The best person to determine that is the one that's doing it now, a psychiatrist with a medical degree. It's great that you have an opinion about how prolific diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria or GID is, but it's completely irrelevant.
>>52931930 No, it's entirely relevant. Look at the increasing numbers of people having this procedure done vs the historical indications of how many were unsatisfied with their born gender. There were not originally this many closeted people, ergo transgenderism is a transmissable social disorder like drug addiction.
>>52931989 >There were not originally this many closeted people, ergo transgenderism is a transmissable social disorder like drug addiction.
That's an absolutely ridiculous conclusion to come to. There's so many other factors that have changed - there wasn't even diagnostic criteria for gender dysphoria until the past decade or so, how could we possibly know how many people were out there with it without being able to diagnose it? The procedure has also become far more sophisticated, it's equally possible there were many diagnosed individuals were out in society, but unwilling to seek treatment due to low quality of surgical outcomes. I could go on all day. Picking one possible conclusion because it agrees with your biases is ridiculous.
>>52932028 I fail to see how that's a better explanation given that it relies even moreso on supposition to support your biases towards advocating for this disorder.
Let's look at this another way: there's a similar psychological condition known as "Body Identity Disorder," though not nearly as widespread as GID because it doesn't have groups advocating for it. People with BID decide that arbitrary parts of their body are not actually part of their true selves and seek to have them removed through surgical means. This is considered a serious psychological condition because it causes the sufferers to perform self harm through body modifcation and mutilation.
Now, is gender modification not a form of self mutilation? These people are cutting entire organs out of their bodies and replacing them with cobbled together bits of fat and skin. They take hormones which their body isn't designed accept at the biological level, introducing medical problems like severe risk of blood clots and also personality changes. That is not healthy or natural.
>>52931734 That's not true. Psychiatrists do not recommend sex change to GID patients. That's why the decision about hormone medication is delayed until close to puberty. They are hoping that by that time GID patients will have grown out of their distorted gender self-concept. Which happens in most cases, patients just grow out of their delusion and accept they're just ordinary homosexuals.
Isn't the whole transgender thing really sexist? I mean, I never thought of gender until it was invented a few years ago. Before that, gender was a less confusing way to say sex. I have boy parts => I am a boy. Now it has something to do with how you feel or act? How is this different from a school yard bully calling me a pussy or a girl or something when I refuse to help him beat up other kids? Even if you want to wear a dress, you should be confident enough that you are a dude who can wear a dress. Making him a woman takes away all that is special about him. A woman who is good at business and succeed in a mans world, would not be called a man, that would take away some of her accomplishments. And why are these people targeting children? Being a child is confusing enough, suggesting to someone impressionable that they have to take hormones as soon as possible or they will miss their window to look like the other gender is a cruel form of abuse.
The only good thing I can see they have done is pushing for more unisex toilets in public. I really don't care about that, but if it makes someone less awkward, let them.
>>52931526 Then name a system that has worked and has left room for prospering industries and not Fucked everyone into poverty. Also >unethical You mean immoral. Its highly ethical to make money off of misfortune.
>>52932230 It's really mostly about homosexuals trying to escape the usual social stigma by changing sex and so blending in with the environment. After all, it's harder to be a man than it is to be a woman and on top of that faggots get extra hardship. So the easy way out is to pretend you're a female and so not be expected to go thru the usual hardship of becoming a grown man. Secondly, I suspect it also has to do with self-fetishising your body giving you enhanced pleasure, so there's also the fetishistic component which we know it's hard to eradicate.
>>52931526 >to coerce someone to enrich another Nobody forces you to do anything. You don't have to spread wealth if you don't want to and you don't have to take wealth from anybody you don't want to either. True free markets are the most natural economic system for humankind.
>>52932389 >True free market is a oxymoron >Free markets are regulated markets. In a true free market regulations would be minimal regulation and hopefully government wouldn't pander for money. Thats not a result of the free market but of a corrupt government.
>>52932418 >hopefully government wouldn't pander for money So basically a true free market is impossible, because this will never happen. Even with publicly funded elections you can't stop a government from trying to gain an advantage through seeking private money. That's unless you legislate that it's illegal, and who controls the legislations? The very people you're trying to legislation. A pure free-market unfettered by government regulation is fantasy.
>>52931160 >>52931152 Israel is America's worst friend. No country have attacked America more times unprovoked than Israel ( stuff likt the USS Liberty incident where Israel attacked and killed 100+ US soldiers in a attempt to get USA involved in the war. They tried to pretend they were egyptian, but the US soldiers on the boat recognized it as israeli so it was leaked out. And the Lavon Affair where Israeli Mossad agents in Egypt tried to kill American tourists and bomb American schools in a attempt to blame it on the muslim brotherhood, but they got caught in the act, the participants later got a medal for their work (in 2007 or somehing) even if they did not murder as many americans as intended.)
And Israel is completely devoid of any moral consideration. It is a country founded on theft and all politics is about how to get away with more theft.
>>52931329 >Universal healthcare is all or nothing, at least that's how its implemented around the world. You don't pick and choose which parts you want to fund.
Not here in norway I don't think. sex change and other cosmetic nonsense is not covered. You might get pills if you are judged insane enough to get hormone replacement, but that's it. You won't get a mangled penis so you can call it a vagina.
Agreed. Obama hasn't done anything but expand the Patriot Act and if it weren't for their reckless disregard for boarders and multiculturalism we would hardly need the patriot act in the first place.
Don't even get me started on these SJWs trying to control and censor everything and Bernie Sanders commies trying to steal money form hard working American citizens and giving it to people who haven't earned it and don't deserve it. Liberals are the worst people in the world.
>>52932354 I think it is separate from sexuality. The fetishistic part is definitely there and I can sort of understand that part. Dressing up is really something that boost your self esteem.
I don't question the action to wear a dress. I question the need to be called something you are not. People should fine with who they are. If they are a man who like girly things, be that. But why change the definition of gender? It reduces people to a label and perpetuate the notion that people should act a certain way to be "real men" or "real women". It enforces gender stereotypes and uses them to define people rather than letting people be.
>>52932490 Except traps think once they change their sex, nobody can tell they aren't really women. So they kinda live entertaining that dream of becoming a woman both from a social and sexual point of view. Needless to say that rarely happens as dreamed.
>>52932871 Gunna need some source because I can't find any medical reference to treating GID. I searched online, what i find is all about transitioning out mitigation (like cross dressing but not sec reassignment) and psychotherapy for the transition/mitigation.
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