> Windows 10 PC’s phone home even after privacy hardening
> Windows 10 telemetry network traffic analysis
A user on Voat analyzed the network traffic of Microsoft's Windows 10 operating system using a DD-WRT router and a Linux Mint laptop with remote logging and Windows 10 Enterprise installed on Virtualbox recently.
He turned off all privacy-related features during custom installation, and let the computer sit idle for eight hours straight afterwards logging network traffic.
In the eight hours Windows 10 made 5508 connection attempts.
> Here is the roughly 8-hour network traffic analysis of 5508 connection attempts of an unused, base install of Windows 10 Enterprise
>but hurr durr you can install leltsb edition and disable botnet with third party 'apps' and use hosts
Yeah, right, what else? Indians can use the loo?
Not only that, but in Windows 10 hosts file can be bypassed (Edge browser does that if you try to block bing.com).
This point has been demonstrated many times before. Winshills will defend it because they are either completely stupid or paid off.
If actually changing the privacy settings mattered I feel this would be less of a problem. But no, microsoft doesn't even have the decency for that.
>Block all connections
>list connection attempts
you guys are retarded, right?
the only test that makes sense is install it, set it up, log all the networking while passing through every request, because only that way you actually get the proper number of requests made by the os
But what if you just don't care about that? Seriously my browsing habits have changed nothing in the past 10 years. I'm still able to do the same thing I did back in 05 only now there is more shit to browse and linux distros have become more stable and simplier to use
Wait, there's more!
>He analyzed the network traffic again after 30 hours, and posted his finding on Pastebin (http://pastebin.com/raw/2V2Uz3uW) as a dump this time.
>After 30 hours of use, Windows 10 attempted to connect to 113 non-private IP addresses.
>He then decided to run a privacy tool for Windows 10, DisableWinTracking, and monitor network traffic again for a period of time to see how it affects the connections made during that time.
>DisableWinTracking is not the most complete privacy tool for Windows 10, but it enables you to make several changes related to privacy to the system including disabling telemetry, services, blocking domains and IP addresses, and uninstalling applications.
>After running the tool, he monitored the network traffic for another 30-hour period and noticed a drop in connection attempts (from 5508 to 2758) and a drop in unique IP addresses the operating system tried to connect to (from 95 to 30).
>It is likely that tools that programs that offer more options than DisableWinTracking reduce the numbers further.
>The takeaway from the test -- which requires verification -- is that Windows 10 will connect to remote sites regularly even if the operating system has been configured for privacy and the computer is idle.
>It is unclear why Windows 10 makes that many connections even when idle.
>Windows 10 users who don't want any of those connections to be made can use the researcher's recommended list of IP ranges to block in a firewall / router. Please note that doing so may impact functionality such as update checking and downloading as well.
>Not only that, but in Windows 10 hosts file can be bypassed (Edge browser does that if you try to block bing.com).
Just so you know, all Windows since XP do this. However, I've said before about this, it's not nefarious in the same sense that the rest of the tracking bullshit is. You can check for yourself in dnsapi.dll with a hex editor that the addresses are for windows update servers and microsoft's site. It's to prevent poisoning and redirection. I'm not 100% sure if Windows 10 expanded the whitelisted domains though.
But yeah, we've known for a while now that Windows 10 phones home despite being told not to, what's new? What I think the guy who did the test should have done though was to use a clean install of an unfucked version of 7 to compare an OS that is known not to actively spy on you
>inb4 NSA/CIA backdoors, not the same as active constant spying
to how much 10 does. Then the study would be a bit more credible. What I want to know without a shadow of a doubt is WHAT 10 is sending on those connections. Just textual data? Screencaps of your desktop? I've heard the latter before but I've yet to see any kind of concrete evidence of that. I'd believe it though.
Most big windows versions now have big problems, win 8 had that terrible metro interface that had to be fixed with external apps.
Win 10 has these privacy issues that have to be fixed with external apps.
So whats the difference from the past? The "big horrible thing" happened to change from interface thing, to privacy things.
Use tiny wall, use the anti telemetry programs and it should be fine, should it not?
>Use tiny wall, use the anti telemetry programs and it should be fine, should it not?
>Use tiny wall
Just a wrapper for WIndows Firewall. Trusting windows firewall (software firewall at that) to filter out M$ telemetry servers is just dumb.
>use the anti telemetry programs
>implying they work 100%
>comparing privacy concerns to shit UI
>An external firewall to your box and pre-approving new ip's? Is that even feasible?
Yeah, anyone with ddwrt/tomato etc can use privoxy/dnsmasq to achieve that
personally i think i might dual boot and freeze the HDD win10 is installed on (if it ever comes to that)
>What I want to know without a shadow of a doubt is WHAT 10 is sending on those connections.
Question, how do you expect that to be answered? Scenario:
1. It's encrypted.
"Well since I have no way to know for sure, then it doesn't prove anything."
2. It's not encrypted.
What are the fucking odds of this?
i think there are some programs like deepfreeze, desu i havent actually tried/test but i am thinking about ways where i will have to address this in the future
i might just offload my general computing to a nuc or ramdisk it up, either way its going to be a lot of work and the earlier i isolate the OS from everything, the better
I just wonder what the ultimate solution could be to fix this problem. I wonder if we are going to be forced to buy a program for that since the problem requires so many man hours and effort to fix, while MS may make new vectors of attack daily.
An external firewall is not that expensive, nor that hard to use.
But we really need somekind of commercial, fool proof way to fix win 10.
Depends, there's probably some money to be made selling a Win 10 telemetry blocker ... probably.
Literally snake oil, who knows, but it's pointless, afaik the battle is already lost(people just don't seem to care) as windows would maybe pack the patches in everyday programs ala dx9 libraries with games.
Whats so hard about it? All you need to do is to find out the "normal" connections of windows, like the timesync connecting and ugh... actually nothing else?
and block out every other IP/domain that it tries to connect to? Have a bunch of different windows computers running in some lab, automate whatever things they want to connect to and add it to some giant blocklist that you distribute to your program?
I would stop using it if there was actually a good alternative for vidya. Perhaps if valve stopped being such cucks and made a good leenux thing for vidya I would switch over. But right now the only option I have is damage control, for many people thats the only option actually.
Show me the results after using Spybot anti Beacon, disablewintracking, and having Peerblock enabled with Microsoft servers blocked. Cause that's what I have and I feel 100% tracking free unless proven otherwise.
Just get W7 really.
When I built my pc as soon as I finished installing windows I downloaded blockwindows and some other thing I forget what it's called but it's similar.
It runs like new every day
I've never even updated it once
Windows 7 with updates uninstalled and disabled. This is from this morning's boot. After boot it's basically silent with no other connection attempts to Microsoft Corp made.
Now imagine doing that for more than one PC.
>and block out every other IP/domain that it tries to connect to?
>"normal" connections of windows
Win10 has a torrent like method of obtaining patches over LAN.
Also how do you figure out what's a normal connection? A lot of the traffic is encrypted, and a lot of the processes are "hidden" in svchosts.
And no matter how hard you block stuff, if MS pulls something like GFWL then what do you do?
>not play video games
I have these blocked and never saw any W10-related garbage.
Easiest way to sandbox Windows so it can't spy on everything you do, is to install it inside a virtual machine. You open it when you need a program for Windows and you close it when it's no longer needed. Do all your other stuff in Linux, especially browsing which usually has all your passwords and credit card numbers and such easily compromised. You don't want to write those inside Windows.
It's reached the point where sandboxing doesn't even help.
They don't just gather what you use, how you use it matters too.
So the OS has to be somehow abstracted from what you want to work on(if you deem it important enough to conceal).
Short of completely cutting off it's connection to the internet, it seems very painful to do in the long run.
Couldn't you just setup a web proxy and blacklist all other non-lan traffic? Then selectively whitelist non-web stuff you need to use e.g. steam.
I wonder how it gets the data for its apps, especially it's live times that give you news, market & weather updates, how mail clients regularly check for emails, how automatic update checking works?
It can't possibly be those things, I'd have no reason to go after Wincucks.
>no discovery about WHAT it sends
Which is worryingly enough. M$ refuses to disclose it too. If they collected only telemetry what would be the reason for M$ to keep this detail private?
They act like if the shit was open source they would be able to audit the code and put their mind at ease. But in reality, they would let someone else audit it for them and if they heard what they want to hear, they would agree with it.
People here think that if windows went open source they would be able to find the backdoors and stupid shit they claim exists, when in reality if people couldn't even find the glaring bugs in the linux kernel for fucking DECADES, how the fuck do you think you will find anything in the windows kernel?
No one here has the ability to truly audit something so complicated anyways, they just wait for someone to tell them what to think.
>if it's encrypted, then what exactly is the issue?
there's something in the water that you're drinking.
and if that isn't the source of your problem, then your parents breed retards.
>We need 100% disclosure.
read the privacy statement and the EULA. they tell you exactly what data they collect
>there's something in the water that you're drinking.
And that is only through certain 'app store' bullshit programs or whatever they are called, and lots of it like the writing stuff is for shit like tablets. Pretty much all of that is standard shit anyways for something that would set calendar dates for you and shit you fucking mongol.
That shit has NOTHING to do with telemetry, which is what cannot be 100% disabled and is what images like OP represent
>Use tiny wall, use the anti telemetry programs and it should be fine, should it not?
Anything on software level is pointless.
>An external firewall to your box and pre-approving new ip's? Is that even feasible?
Whitelisting should do the trick.
>Block all connection attempts
>Shocked when windows retries multiple times to validate install
Why is this supposed to mean anything to anyone with half a brain?
The problem is not the fact that the OS desperately tries to reconnect to each IP, but rather the amount of unique servers it tries to contact. How much of a dumb panjeet you've got to be not to realise that you're only hurting yourself with that attitude of yours?
>over 2000 connection per day
>just for validating product
It does if the retard configured the firewall to drop all connections. What do you do if 4chan doesn't load? You keep reloading. Kind of what windows does. "Oh shit I can't access MS servers. REFRESH REFRESH MUST ASK NSA IF THEY ARE UP"
>I torrent my games and tv shows
>I show those companies who's the boss
>tfw use Win10, stock Android, Chrome, Skype, and Google
So what if they use data to make their products better and assist law enforcement in catching criminals? The only way this would affect you is if you're doing something illegal, which is probably the case for a lot of people here. Quit fapping to pizza and you'll have nothing to worry about
Even if the number is zero, it doesn't matter.
Software developers need usage data to make their products better. That's why Chrome and Windows are actually good, whereas freetard software like Linux and Firefox is garbage and barely works.
Because windows updates, windows store, onedrive and he still had telemetry enabled. You need to remove the service to be sure and change group policies. After uninstalling windows store, disabling onedrive, removing telemetry services and updating group policies the only connections I get to MS are to their update servers after the initial shit after install are taken care of.
>A user on Voat analyzed the network traffic of Microsoft's Windows 10 operating system using a DD-WRT router and a Linux Mint laptop with remote logging and Windows 10 Enterprise installed on Virtualbox recently.
>He turned off all privacy-related features during custom installation, and let the computer sit idle for eight hours straight afterwards logging network traffic.
>In the eight hours Windows 10 made 5508 connection attempts.
Reposting from the last time this bullshit, fabricated Voat post got posted here by gulible idiots who believe anything they read:
I read TFA, the guy is an idiot and screwed up the test.
He configured the router to drop all connections. So Windows tries to access Windows Update, and it fails. So it tries the next server on the list, which fails. Strange, the interface has an IP address, try the next one...
Windows also has this thing called the Out Of Box Experience. It's been there since at least 98, probably before. The first time you log in, it runs a few things so you can choose your preferences and set important stuff up. If you ignore it, it will carry on looking for updates from the Windows Store, updates for live tiles in the start menu etc.
Every OS enables a load of crap by default. This is not surprising at all.
Unlike the guy in TFA, I bothered to do this properly. If you disable everything and don't use Windows Store apps then the only traffic is to Windows Update.
This is what happens when your source is a Reddit knock-off full of people who found Reddit too civil.
Well then they should let us see what exactly is it that they are collecting and doing. They should also let them actually get patch notes instead of forcing updates we don't even know nothing about.
Why you say? Well, if they've got nothing to hide, then there is nothing to fear, of course. After all, isn't that how it works for us?
Have you actually spent anytime looking at the windows system directory and some of the filenames in there? Use windows for a day or two and look at the recently modified and created file list and log files? Event viewer and scheduler? Default services enabled and running?
It's absolutely astounding, but now that it regularly beacons the mothership a bit frightening. I hear tell they are basically telling you in the waiver you click off on during install now, they will scan your files and they own everything you do on their OS. The free upgrade? Obviously the user is the product now. But hey, that goes for near everything "tech"today including this place.
We are certainly not in Kansas anymore, apparently not even in Redmond, maybe a Mormon bunker in Utah or Pajeets chop shop in the big Poo?
>1. It's encrypted."Well since I have no way to know for sure, then it doesn't prove anything."
Not that anon, but I suppose I'll find out in a few days.
> 2. It's not encrypted. What are the fucking odds of this?
Slim to none.
>anon, install windows 10 enterprise. No telemetry! :^)
>So what if they use data to make their products better and assist law enforcement in catching criminals?
They actually use your data to blast you with ads. And they earm a shit load of money from doing so. Keep in mind that this already is a paid product, not a free one where you could easily overlook this aspect.
>Question, how do you expect that to be answered? Scenario:
Well, that's the whole problem here. It's plausible deniability on their part. That's what sucks about closed source software.
Friendly reminder that you do not have superuser/root access in windows.
you are only able to modify what they want you to be able to modify.
>Malware, short for malicious software, is any software used to disrupt computer operations, gather sensitive information, gain access to private computer systems, or display unwanted advertising.
Windows 10 is malware.
>Wincucks desperately trying to "privacy harden" their proprietary shitware, thinking their efforts mean anything when they're dealing with a blackbox OS that can change itself independent of their will
remember how dx11 was supposed to be a huge deal?
reality is you can make a modern, amazing looking game on dx9, or you can not use directx
new versions of directx have no point other than to try to force people to use new versions of windows.