>>52710028 CS (or I guess SE which is what all these "lrn2code" movements are actually trying to get people into) already has the lowest barrier to entry for anything that you can make a living from. Even impoverished poo-in-loos can do it, the only reason murrifats can't into is because they are both dumb and lazy, and you can't be both if you want to be a programmer.
High schools teaching people to code doesn't make them any more a computer scientist than high school chemistry makes people a chemist. All it accomplishes is introducing a useful, yet alien field to a whole new number of people and it's something that should be encouraged.
It's dumb. It's so dumb. The worst worst worst thing you can do to academics is give them a bunch of money all up front then when it runs out because these retards can't plan for shit and like launching all sorts of expensive projects at the same time and running out of money halfway the Government then says fuck this shit, it didn't work and moves on and everyone is worse off.
Only thing worse would be giving it to school because those retards will all run off and buy ipads and all sorts of useless technologies they don't need and somehow because it always happens, wind up getting sued out of the rest of it.
This is why we tell you to read SICP instead of some bullshit "lean C++ the east way!" tutorial. When everybody is a programmer, only the people who have knowledge beyond library jockeying and Designated-tier imperative babbling will be valued.
If you're wasting your time with Java, C++, Python, etc today, then you deserve whatever's coming next.
>>52711905 Computer Science requiring programming is just old-fashioned. Nowadays people use things like Facebook and Twitter much more than programming and therefore those should be discussed, along with ethical dilemmas such as what you can and can't say about minority groups like women.
>>52712017 That sounds more like a social sciences class. Personally, my public schools had "IT" classes that taught kids how to type properly and use Microsoft office. When in highschool, there was an "AP CS" class with some sort of psuedocode system and java I believe. Even that is more than what I honestly expect from public schools.
>>52711905 This. My intro to programming class was easy af. You could do a semester of lessons in a week and be pass with flying colors. The next year, nearly everyone with "genuine interest" failed advanced programming. It's a meme. As soon as shit gets tough, they'll jump ship.
>>52710028 >programmers are about to be lower than walmart cashier walmart cashiers are replaceable by anyone near by that can work a calculator programmers are replaceable by anyone world wide that can use google and is willing to work for less.
>>52712681 that's beacuse it was taught by a retard, for retarded children.
obama just wants there to be less retards. i think he believes if enough money gets thrown at the problem, maybe a few good people will slip out. and if we get another Dijkstra, or Turing, or Lamport out of it, that's a decent return on the investment.
This. And don't forget the large percentage of people who will try programming and find it totally boring. And the large percentage of people who will sorta enjoy it but never be motivated enough to obsess over it every waking hour for years so they actually stand a chance at getting a good job.
I think everyone who has an office job could benefit from a bit of programming literacy. Kinda like being able to do math is really useful every once in a while even if your job description isn't mathy at all. Being able to write short simple programs to automate common tasks will probably be pretty common in the future. Hell lots of people are doing that with Excel but they don't even realize it's programming. But I LOL real hard at the idea that a much greater proportion of the population will suddenly become 9-5 programmers.
>>52711683 I love to do engineering-social, mechanical, electrical, and computing. This isn't taught.
>>52711719 >>52710028 The best possible implementation of this is real programmers making languages like js and php but even easier like we do today, but even more simplified. Scratch level programming. Where CPU gets faster, code libraries can handle immense amount of generic garbage from IDEs. Like when fat fingers use dreamweaver now, creating redundancies and inefficiencies across the board.
These idiots will do nothing but drag and drop and have no real skill. I remember selling my xbox to buy shit laptops I had to hide from my family just to connect to the wireless across the street to grab a linux distro and burn it to a dvd just to dive in. I fucking did this with debian and had no backup of anything when I was 13. Friend said it was the hardest way of doing it.
Real ability comes from being in a do or die situation where if you fail there are consequences, thus forcing you to find a solution. That is what a programmer is. Not all this fucking pansie school shit.
>>52712681 >>52711905 Tbh this creates a great opportunity if done right. This money could go towards buying computer parts and kids assembling trial by fire, then building an OS trial by fire. I doubt any teacher would do this but jesus even a small fraction of that absorbed would give these kids core skills.
Not to mention that the lifetime of a computer is 5-10 years. If you bought every kid interested a small netbook or some sort of machine it would give them room to experiment and troubleshoot. Likely you could get each of these kids a machine and it would be time for a new one rather than passing it on to the next kid. Assuming universal schools system lets kids transfer with said machine.
>>52714268 Not that person, but sometimes parents are weird man. Mine got me a computer at a young age. But I definitely knew people growing up who had parents that greatly restricted their access to computers/the Internet.
>>52714268 I dont like to post many details especially from a nonmasked IP but to say the least, my family was very christian & old fashioned in influence. 90% of the people in my town would rather me play video games about basketball and shoot hoops than do something technology related.
I now get paid handsomely and have lots of tech & do not speak with one half of my family.
Relating this to the thread as to keep on topic, my own experiences have shown that usually lack of money and interior to personal life creates a struggle that causes young men to stray towards programming and tech. To explore, to achieve real, hard earned greatness, to escape an otherwise shitty reality that video games cannot financially fix long term. I'm 19 now. My colleagues work with me to learn three new languages a week and train in cisco and other enterprise tech. I literally define myself by learning something new and applying it real time in production.
>obesity rate around 40% for all americans >almost 20 fucking trillion dollars in debt >education system gone to shit with constant budget cuts >colleges turning into commercial businesses Yeah, what America needs right now is more pretentious teens who think they can hack after learning how to make a few simple scripts.
>>52714437 Hmm... Obesity. That is funny. Yeah man, these people eat. Not sure if you starve yourselves over where you are, but it sounds like we are enjoying ourselves. We don't have to make everyone live to our standard, just check over the fence to make sure our neighbor has enough. Louie CK has a skit on how white people are evil. Watch it, laugh, and calm down.
>education mandatory implied >requirement to be skinny or in shape required, regardless of persons happiness >mentions economics but fails to see that everything is a business and about the bottom line, like 'ideally' we are not about churning out a statistic on some page that needs to go up (IE graduation rate) and how that correlates Old world detected. EU and these other countries have come far but not that far.
Kids have the most time. While you are compiling your newest code, they have enough time to fuck around on your network and find holes. I remember a friend of mine took out our district's domain controller and later did some social engineering to get an email to a computer teacher who had elevated privileges across the domain.
>>52714784 Yes. How does this affect you strongly on a daily basis? It is not my preference. But when I go about my daily life it doesn't affect me in any form, lesser or greater.
Do what makes you happy. Everyone has a poison, be it drinking, smoking, over indulging, etc.
Humans are stereotypical creatures, but not linear. Right now, you are choosing to make the worst of what I am saying rather than trying to wrap your head around the change of perspective I am trying to enlighten you on.
Relating this back to thread; I see a lot of good engineers and programmers in the field, however they are moody. They do not work well in teams, and are condescending. If we want youth to embrace computer technology, then how are they supposed to become even slightly skilled when our own community cannot communicate respectfully.
>>52714978 Family member, I'm dying. I have a BMI of 37 and already might have high blood pressure. I shed tears at dinner sometimes because all I eat is steamed rice with a small meal and a liter of water to wash it all down. But I keep my diet up because I don't want to end up like my aunt who died of heart problems at 47.
Being this fucking fat isn't good for us, stop trying to justify it.
>>52713004 The UCs call the major CS. What's the technical difference between it and software engineering, other than that coding is working with a language rather than actually using the scientific method?
>>52715154 I never justified it. I am trying to tell you we shouldn't be judgmental of those who are obese. As stated with the "looking over the fence to make sure our neighbors have enough". Where do you think this money should be going then? It seems as though you have a place in mind for it rather than "code". >>52715095 Experiences > gloating. All we have is experience, right? I want to flesh out more conversation than derailing it. >>52715167 Picture me how you will. Like Stallman adopted a god complex, I've adopted the view that we are just containers. If the porn industry, which currently leads the tech industry, can merge with the rise of VRs, then we won't really have to move. I imagine us having something that attaches to the crotch, going on virtual tours for history classes, and this 4B investment funding a program similar to that described in Ernest Cline's "Ready Player One".
>>52714229 >implying 98% of children won't just browse Facebook and watch Netflix on their free computer
Like seriously, how naive are you? My hs had 4 tiers of comp Sci (honors, Ap, data structures, and operating systems). The kids in operating systems were too fucking lazy and impassionate they would ask the kids who actually did things on the side to do their watered down projects. How do you expect kids with no desire to even join a comp Sci class to explore computers when at least I personally have seen people go four years without giving a single fuck?
>>52715313 >not giving a fuck Yeah, that's the issue some people have with making education free. My hs didn't have CS (at the time I was there), but it did have art, and art supplies are super expensive yet kids waste them all the time, and the district isn't allowed to charge shop fees anymore.
>>52715280 >I never justified it. I am trying to tell you we shouldn't be judgmental of those who are obese. Not him but we really should be judgemental. Being obese is a bad thing, if we stop stigmatizing it people will start to think it's a-ok.
It sounds like curbing this interest into the investment needs to be incorporated.
>>52715393 >>52715329 I can agree with the learn the hard way lesson. Perhaps if you can't make it through the bullying and stigmatizing, you dig your own grave. I was leaning more towards an assist/support/encourage role by giving these kids a friend they probably don't have.
>300lb kid used to get on my bus and had no friends, was an outcast and mlp fan >took 10 minutes to talk to him one day and he had a shit family >slowly encouraged him to come hang out around town more and meet up which got him out of the house more which got him out of a bad house and on his feet.
Maybe if I was obese I could relate better. I don't know. It is arrogant on the face of it for me to offer strategies for obesity, but this is unrelated to thread. I fully admit to being arrogant on the topic of obesity. But if you don't at least try to change it for the better than how are you in any way contributing to better the situation? >>52715419 Not hard as fuck, but there is definitely close-minded guys working in this particular sector. Stereo-typically speaking I think we have a bad reputation. We should really strive to be role models for these young kids and encourage them to make good code, and grow the community, instead of being scared >>52710325 that our community is growing.
How about we man the fuck up and get these young minds to come in, do things properly, and respect the science? So what if only 5% graduate or become successful? Can you imagine the wave of influence this would have worldwide? Unions if we felt necessary, and better inventions worldwide. It is a stretch, but the kids are going to need netbooks/laptops for most google docs that they submit anyways (assuming your local district is using that monster)>>52715313
>>52715522 I don't want to sell too hard on this idea, but if we had more young folk to do programming, we may be able to assign them tasks and confidently hand the industry over in 20-40 years to the newer crowd that we taught.
My gut reaction tells me that there would need to be fore-thought here. Likely this is a press release for Oh-bummer to say he 'tried', for some promise to a large corporation or donar during presidential election. Bottom line at its finest. Really though, the planning on trying to steamroll kids into this would have to include a lot of advertising and sponsoring. Like including code in easter eggs in games or services. Also it would need to be predefined where these kids would work in ten years, and what is the end goal? Do we want kids to be able to write some scripts native to whatever OS they are using? I can see this being a good thing. Maybe it would call for a universal terminal industry standard.
What does 4B look like?
Lets assume every high school has an avg 1000 students per batch investment. Here is the breakdown assuming volume purchasing:
1000 students * 26407 public hs=26,407,000 That 26.4m * 250 per assumed thinkpad = 660,175,000. So what the fuck, are these kids getting macbooks? And what, interchangeably the populace probably generates an extra 100 kids per 6 months? Essentially my numbers are low, but it seems a tad high at 4B to operate a large populace of kids with tech.
>>52715866 What does it look like to get something similar underway in these times? >>52716038 Interesting. Actually I remember this from a class back in highschool. That is awful. The teacher just wanted to hangout with the students like this >>52711905
>>52710028 What if this whole #lrn2code #hackaday crap is just the antithesis of computer illiteracy? Like, from a big business standpoint; if most of your jobs are done by machines then the only humans you'll need are ones to fix the machines. Instead of making it seem like "Come and fix your replacements, wageslaves" they'll make it seem like "I'm such a leet haxor i can install the McDonalds Linux Distro." We shouldn't oppose Obama's plan for the reason that people are getting into our hobbies, we should oppose it because he's trying to make shekel grubbing easier for the big goys up top.
>Trump thinks that the STEM (people in the fields of science, technology, engineering and math) shortage is a malicious myth. "We graduate two times more Americans with STEM degrees each year than find STEM jobs, yet as much as two-thirds of entry-level hiring for IT jobs is accomplished through the H1B program,"
>Consequently, Trump proposes to raise the minimum wage for foreign H1B hires to "force companies to give these coveted entry-level jobs to the existing domestic pool of unemployed native and immigrant workers in the US, instead of flying in cheaper workers from overseas",
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