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systemd bricking EFI mobos
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File: lennartpoettering.jpg (53 KB, 770x510) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2402

>Mounting efivarfs read/write by default can lead to accidental deletion of the EFI variables. It was already reported on Arch Linux forums, that running 'rm -rf' over a directory structure with mounted efivarfs did actually "hard-brick" some MSI notebook.

Lennart, being the massive faggot he is, thinks it's a non-issue and comparable to having /dev/sda access, despite the fact that wiping /dev/sda won't render your motherboard completely inoperable.
>>
>systemd
>any year
>>
Once again systemd confirmed for more Unix than Unix.

>If you aim the gun at your foot and pull the trigger, it's UNIX's job to ensure reliable delivery of the bullet to where you aimed the gun (in this case, Mr. Foot).

>Unix was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things.

What part of this bug report claims systemd is bricking laptops and not users being careless?
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>>52693226
>>Mounting efivarfs read/write by default can lead to accidental deletion of the EFI variables.
That would be true however the user mounted efivarfs rw. Has nothing to do with systemd.
>>
>>52693226
Lennart Poettering has marked every single issue ever reported by any user of his software as a non-issue that he will not fix.

This guy invented the term "works on my machine". His "I can do no wrong" attitude towards software development makes #/g/sicp and installgentoo.net look humble and open-minded in comparison.
>>
>I stuck a knife up my arse and now its bleeding
>someone needs to do something to make knives more safe for the general public
>>
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pic related is the epitome of poettering and all of his projects
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>>52693226
>running 'rm -rf' over a directory structure with mounted efivarfs did actually "hard-brick" some MSI notebook.
A user error in other words.
What does this have to do with systemd?
Are you one of those retards who want rm -rf to fail on / by default?
>>
This is PEBCAK on a massive scale, as OP even says himself the guy ran rm -rf.

Don't fucking do that.
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>>52693226
>My computer doesn't work after I deleted the operating system.
>>
Computer: What kinda command you want?
Him: Just rm -rf my shit up senpai.
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>>52693426
>Once again systemd confirmed for more Unix than Unix
>Once again
cuck detected
>>
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>>52694765
>>52694723
Under no circumstances should trashing a filesystem RENDER HARDWARE DESTROYED!
>>
>uefi
everything about it is shit
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>>52694811
>my motherboard is unable to boot after systemd automounted a critical EFI partition containing files unable to be reinstalled without having hardware flashing access to the motherboard
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>>52693226
Year of Linux desktop when?
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>>52694839
It seems more like a UEFI issue to me than anything else.
>>
>>52694858
Yeah i refuse to use it.
Every one on every machine is different and you have different levels of success with them.
Its funny what the "u" stands for.
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SystemD is a malware.
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>>52693226
Deleting efivars is like deleting the boot sector on an MBR disk. Easily replaced. NBD desu SENPAI.
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>>52694897
>my motherboard exposes an interface to an operating system to upgrade the firmware
>my motherboard's vendor failed to follow the EFI spec
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>>52693226
not sure what the bigger cancer is, UEFI or systemd
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>>52695789
Uefi by a long shot. At least systemd has technical merit, a moderate pattern of success, and an ability to fix problems in its implementations.

Uefi is a clusterfuck of Microsoft me-too-isms and retarded indians and Koreans pretending to be OS designers.
>guys, I have a great idea!
>let's make the motherboard mfgs known for their incompetence write an operating system that runs cryptographically signed driver blobs before booting the actual user-facing OS!
Just more genius from Microsoft as usual.
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>>52693226
That doesn't brick shit.
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>>52693226
Cant you just reflash the bios?
>>
which gnu's don't use D?

i've been holding out on the switch because of this retard (re: OP pic)
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>if you mount the device where the firmware is stored and then do the equivalent of rm -rf to that device then the device firmware will be wiped out
>this is somehow a systemd problem
Of course the people complaining about this use arch
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>>52698618
cant flash efivarfs again until you manage to get the board booting. Only solution would be the process the manufacturers use to flash it in the first place.
>>
Lenfart pooter on suicide watch
>>
>that running 'rm -rf' over a directory structure with mounted efivarfs did actually "hard-brick" some MSI notebook.
In other breaking news, Systemd will break grub if you run rm -rf /boot/grub.
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>>52694839
>Under no circumstances should trashing a filesystem RENDER HARDWARE DESTROYED!
Everything is a file. The Unix way.
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>>52693426
>People complaining that systemd obeys the fstab specifications that interrupts normal startup if a filesystem is missing and nofail isn't set
>People complain that systemd doesn't stop them from deleting EFI files
>People complain that systemd replaces a vast amount of unmaintained hacked together amateur software with a neat and consistent single vendor base like BSD
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>>52698642
Just use HURD.
>>
And this... Is why you don't use loonix. Even if the kernel was flawless, some smaller program is going to fuck you over. Hard.
>>
Lenny Pottery doesn't care about your shitty ricer distro.

If it doesn't affect Redhat's big money corporate customers it doesn't matter to him.

If a corporate sysadmin goes around rm -rf ing random filesystems he doesn't understand and bricks some hardware it's safe to say he deserves to be fired.
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>>52698757
Noob detected
>>
>>52698726
I've reviewed these issues and determined that they don't actually exist.

I'm closing this thread and marking it as WON'T FIX. Feel free to re-open it so I can close it again later

- lennart
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>>52693226
Shitty EFI implementation by MSI is at fault here.
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>>52698757
the average linux user never needs to touch /etc/fstab
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>>52698715
kek
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>>52693226
>uefi motherboards
I fucking hate systemd like any other sane person, but jezus christ uefi is like handing a kid your gameboy with pokemon blue and expecting him not to overwrite your save. Just use fucking bios.
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>>52693226
why would you mount EFI as writable in the first place?
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>>52693226
As much as he is an enormous arrogant faggot, this is an EFI problem. It shouldn't be possible to hard brick a computer through software this easily.
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>Arch
>Uefi
>MSI

Pottering did nothing wrong
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>>52694765
To be fair, it's not yet in general knowledge that this sort of thing could happen.

Most linux users have in some part of their life nuked an installation with rm -rf / on the living system and considered it harmless as all the data hsa been backed up.

Now all tutorials need extra don't do this -paragraph.
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>>52696946
Actually I'm pretty sure uefi was more Intel's doing than microsoft, but ok
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>>52693226
>Mounting efivarfs read/write
This is stupid, but is that a default action from systemd, or do you actually have to change fstab for that to happen by default?
>It was already reported on Arch Linux forums, that running 'rm -rf' over a directory structure with mounted efivarfs did actually "hard-brick" some MSI notebook.
>running rm -rf on an efi partition
OH GOD THE SYSTEM DOESN'T STOP ME FROM EXECUTING PERFECTLY CORRECT COMMANDS THAT WOULD REMOVE SOMETHING I'M TELLING IT TO REMOVE

Arch users in a nutshell everyone.
>>
>>52693226
Poettering's monster rears its ugly head.
>>
>if you erase critical firmware, shit breaks
WOW
>>
>>52693226
what linux distro doesn't use systemd?
what UNIX OS doesn't use systemd?
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>>52700923
dumb drakeposter
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>>52700751
it's writable by default

but it's under /sys, in general you shouldn't be fucking around under /sys, there's plenty to fuck up in there

only root can write to it, as you'd expect

you can also set it to mount as read only, if you can't trust yourself not to go around erasing shit under /sys
>>
from what i read, erasing efivars shouldn't render efi unusable, the msi board's efi implementation was non-standard
>>
>>52701574
lots of non-standard UEFI-implementations floating around, as it seems.
this is why we can't have nice things.
>>
>Locking this one. Note sure which peanut gallery site linked this...
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>>52694839
>rm -rf on efivarfs
can you grasp how stupid this is?
>>
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>>52698715
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>>52694663
srs question how do u get past this level
>>
>>52701028

nope never happened to me, but I accidentally did "chmod -R 777 /" once
>>
>>52694839
Tell that to MSI.
Seems like it's their fucking fault for not implementing a secure way of restoring uefi configuration
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>MSI ships hardware with no way of restoring the firmware
>But it's systemd's fault because POETTERING IS AN ASSHOLE
>>
>>52701028
>Most linux users have in some part of their life nuked an installation with rm -rf / on the living system
No, they haven't because that would be a pretty retarded thing to do
There is no circumstance under which you need to do that
>>
Give me a distro with no systemd
>>
Has there ever been a motherboard manufacturer that didn't make ass software and firmware ?
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>>52694897
The first thing i need to know is why the fuck are important mobo files not read only with a hardware jumper to make them read-write?
>>
>>52693226
who in their right fucking mind would mess with EFI files?

Also,
>SJWhub
>>
>>52702051
true, they're not very good at it.
especially when it comes to following specifications.

while i agree acpi is a mess but good lord that's what you're getting paid for.
manufacturers disregarding acpi standards is one of the reasons why battery life sucks donkey kong on loonatix
>>
>>52694920
when wayland is finished, gnu dmd the standard init and guix the standard package manager. and then it would probably be the year of the GNU desktop.
>>
>>52698642
GuixSD, funtoo, debian if you know what you are doing, arch can do it if you know what you are doing but it's not supported.
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>>52702343
normies will never ever care about the window manager, the init system or the package manager
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>>52702436
i agree about them not caring about the init system but they do care about their package manager and the WM/DE. just look at all of those people memeing apt-get as soon as someone mentions linux of jacking off to how sleek unity, kde or gnome can look. sit a normie in front of KDE and he will most likely love it. people used to play around with themes in windows aswell back in xp.
>>
>>52702495
window manager and desktop environment are different things
Usability is the main concern and that's obviously all in the DE
No normie has ever cared about the packet manager. There just has to be a normal-friendly gui frontend for it (probably by just surfacing gui applications and resolving dependencies in the background)
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>>52702562
they are related however. and X is not very stable or secure at all.
you can only make a unified frontend for GNU/Linux package management if everyone uses the same package manager.
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>>52702051
Msi
>>
>>52702752
not true at all
you just have to write the reewrite the code that links the gui with the package manager, which shouldn't be too much work in a well designed program
>>
I'm no fan of systemd, but this is more an EFI problem than a systemd problem.

EFI is a shitshow. Nobody ever does a proper standard EFI setup. MSI have this efi brick. HP won't let you dual boot anything with Windows.
I miss the old MBR BIOS. It was so fucking magnificent compared to this EFI wank.
>>
>>52701667
He knows
>>
>>52701992
ubuntu 14.04, slackware, gentoo...
>>
>>52696946
Don't be selfish, share that hate with all the companies responsible.
>>
>bricks the motherboard
That's just retarded. I can't wait until the NSA uses this if the already haven't. And you faggots are defending this.
>>
Post Your Fucking Face When Hitlering is the one behind all the shilling on /g/
>>
doesn't every motherboard these days have a jumper or button to recover from a bad bios flash?
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>>52703598
rekt
>>
>>52703598
That's exactly what I do when the circle jerk has arrived. Listening to the non-contributing internet mob is great way to wreak a project.
>>
LENNART CONFIRMED ON SUICIDE WATCH
>>
>>52702343
>when wayland is finished, gnu dmd the standard init and guix the standard package manager. and then it would probably be the year of the GNU desktop.

When will binary compatibilty be a thing?
Can Adobe port Photoshop easily (to make an obvious example) ?
Until then no Linux on the desktop.
>>
>>52703925
>Can Adobe port Photoshop easily (to make an obvious example) ?
It won't happen.
Adobe is shit at doing stuff properly on the software side.

Microsoft had spent millions of dollars on Adobe so they make sure their creative suites work properly on Windows.
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>>52703967
>Adobe

It was just an example.
I meant that porting a big professional applications shouldn't be a pain in the arse.
Could be AutoCad instead of Photoshop, but it's the same problem.
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>>52700785
This isn't an EFI problem either. MSI just fucked up their implementation.
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>>52693226
>blaming systemd for giving root too much control
You are the problem
>>
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How is it possible for an operating system to brick a motherboard? Isn't the firmware safetly tucked away in EEPROMs?
>>
>>52703925
It's been a thing for ages. Static link your own libc and don't depend on rewriting GPL kernel interfaces and you're good to go. X11 and libgl both have it as well so you can interact with a GUI too.

What you don't get is to take advantage of the GPL interfaces in the kernel and userspace, since those have the luxury of being easy to modify and thus expect consumers to be easy to adapt. It's GPL after all.

What you could do is release LGPL desktop and driver plugins for your software so it can interact with userspace, but still be modifiable by packagers and maintainers. But people like adobe have no interest in cooperating with the community of any platform, especially one whose users are on average significantly more technically competent.
>>
>>52701992
alpine linux
debian and arch can also be 'unsystemded'
>>
>>52704583
Uefi is a clusterfuck of bad design and worse implementation, all in the pursuit of boot-time trust from vendors who don't know how to safely store a password.
>>
>>52701992
install gentoo
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>>52698757
Do you have any idea what you're even talking about?
>>
>>52704731
>It's been a thing for ages

Maybe, I haven't used Linux for ages.
But Linus himself seems to agree with me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PmHRSeA2c8&t=5m57s
>>
>>52698757
LMAO
>>
>>52705093
Linus forgets that programs like alpha centauri still work just fine. He's bemoaning userspace and how they obviously aren't as smart and forward thinking as him, and how packagers have rules about their packages.

This has nothing at all to do with vendors, since they'll release their own package or repo or installer with no regard to the maintainers. If the vendors want to deal with maintainers, they should release interface libraries that interact with GPL on its own and can be rewritten for each distribution.
>>
>>52705231
Dude, it doesn't matter whose fault it is.
The point was that getting binaries to run on Linux is a pain in the ass.
That's why companies like Adobe or Autodesk don't touch Linux with a 10 foot pole.
Do you think they don't want the marketshare?
>>
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Lennart is a giant cunt but so are the people at MSI it seems. Maybe he should go to work with them so he can. . . you know...
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>>52693226
zozzle at you all being misguided by ignorance, linsux. double zozzle.
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>>52698642
void linux
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>>52693226
and this is why no sane person bothers with linshit on a desktop PC
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>>52698696
ayy
>>
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>>52703839
>>52703598
>>
>>52693226
I just use Gentoo on all my systems.
>>
>>52701491
he is right tho
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>>52701353
retard
>>
protip: Premium desktop motherboards got dual bios / bios failsafe measures.

Normal desktop motherboards and laptop BIOS (even ROG, Sager, etc), got no protection.

So yeah, this is FUBAR.
But hell, who the hell would even use systemd in the first place anyway?
>>
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Tried to deploy a new Gentoo install.

welp.
Thread replies: 111
Thread images: 14
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