Should we be scared of the rise of artificial intelligence?

>>52676587
such thing will never truly exist

>>52676587
Yeah man an AI that can only play Go well will take over the world.

AI is a meme designed to sell kickstarter scams, and boost $company stock. It doesn't actually work. Never will.

>>52676642
Genghis Khan was a professional Go player, and he almost took over the world.
Also Adolf Hitler's Hobby was playing Go, he wasn't a pro though.
Read a history book sometimes, you ignorant wanker!

>>52676587
If the "artificial intelligence" you speak of that we should be scared of sounds something like:
>my 5 cell perceptron in Java accidentally turned into skynet!

Then no, such an "accident" will never EVER happen no matter how many times the media memepost this FUD.

I think it is only a matter of time till that point is reached
Simply because i think our brain isnt so special as we think in the moment
But i dont think we need to be afraid

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>>52676701
>hitler could play go
>hitler took over the world
>AI can play go
>therefore AI will take over the world.

>>52676985
>hitler took over the world

if only anon.

>>52676985
But if an AI can beat Hitler in Go, what is stopping it from beating him in warfare?

If AI is ever created it will realize the horrors of the world and the never ending struggle of human and then promptly kill itself

>>52676985
>hitler took over the world
What magnificent parallel universe are you from anon?

>>52677035
Or it could just kill humans.

>>52676587
Its not that the AIs themselves will become sentient and threaten humanity by destroying us in a war but rather that when AI are trained to do many thing, those thing would no longer need people to do them. In this end you must expect either humans will always be superior to AIs in some aspect or that AI will be able to perform all human tasks eventually.

In the first case, the AI will be a tool and leverage by people with money so that they would no longer need to do menial things. It would mean a society where humans will do what humans do better than AI and AIs do everything else. This is sort of what people imagine the future to be like for humans because they are humans and are thus bias towards their own thinking.

On the other side, if AIs eventually map out all the tasks that humans can do and do them as well or better. What is there left for humans? Will there even be a need for humans to exist? This will likely end with a society where AIs are in charge of everything and humans are then probably farmed simply as an archive of life.

The thing that most humans value in themselves is their ability to reason and their creativity. However these constructs when broken down are limited in value. It is likely that AIs developed can be just as creative as humans because they can already create things no humans can, there really isn't a quantifiable measurement for how creative someone or something is because of subjectivity but many things that are popular and artistically creative are often modeled with rules of the subject and the social context it exists in. It is not unimaginable that eventually you'd be able to train an AI to do this.

The GO AI will never do anything more fancy than play GO. It might not even be better than the best. But one day it might be. And that will be one more thing humans are worse than AIs. We will cross it out just like we did with chess. Who knows how long until we cross out most of what makes us special.

>>52676701

and you should catch up on correlations vs causalities

Stolen from a colleague (pt1)
Original source: http://baduk.hangame.com/news.nhn?gseq=35472&m=view&page=&searchfield=&leagueseq=&searchtext=

--------------------------------------------------------

When did you get the match offer?
- Late last year. Just before the final of Mongbaekhap-cup. I accepted it without too much worry because it's a significant honor to me.

The prize is big.
- I'm more focusing on the meaning rather than the money. It's not the money whic made me accept the match.

Then, what's the meaning of the match to you.
- Anyway, it's the first official match between a human and a computer. That itself has a significant meaning to me. Also, I'm proud of the fact that I'm chosen for the match among many other players in Korea, China, and Japan.

Why do you think, you got the offer?
- I think I have a good record for the past 10 years, though not sure about the past 5 years. Anyway, it's a great honor to me.

Did you see the play of 'AlphaGo'?
- Not at all. I didn't even know that it won 5-0 to the European champion. I've heard that the match was over the Internet, and AlphaGo did very well, ... Other than that, I haven't heard anything about it. I knew little bit more about it from the news reports.

>>52677459
(pt2)
How did you decide to accept the match offer?
- Of course, because I'm confident that I can beat it. Because, I think, Google considers AlphaGo as a preliminary level algorithm on the way of making it more complete one, I think it's too helpless for human, me, to lose at this stage. I might lose one or two games. But, I think I'll win eventually even if the score is 3-2. I expect, 4-1 or 5-1 would be the final score.

The match style?
- We will have 5 games. What's interesting is, we will have all the 5 games even if one already wins first three games. I think, what Google wants is the data of my plays, because they want to make the algorithm better based on my plays. In that sense, I think, for them, this is an early stage of the challenge.

What do you expect if you lose?
- It will be less shocking if the algorithm beats a (best) human (player), perhaps 2, 3, 5, or 10 years later from now, because people would already have known about the existence of this kind of algorithm. Then, people will think that we have eventually reached a time where an algorithm can win over a human player. But, we are not ready to accept the loss at the moment. I think there will be a huge impact.

Do you think the whole community or industry of the Go game can be threatened if you lose?
- Not sure, whether it will result in a crisis or a boom. Anyway, there will be some influence. And, personally, the shock will be much stronger than that I had recently after losing at the final of the Mongbaekhap-cup.

This year, there is another big match, Eungsee-Cup. Then, your prize money this year could be more than 2 million dollars?
- (laugh)

Lastly, do you have anything to say more?
- I'm not sure if I represents the whole humanity, but I think that I am, because they picked me for it and I accepted it. I believe that the fans of Go game will cheer for me and support me.

>>52677459
>>52677467
I am expecting him to win for now but I am rooting for the bot. Once BetaGo comes out, it will rekt everyone's shit probably.

I'm worried about the fact that Google's AI used games from the KGS Go server (western players) to train the neural network. They should have used the asian servers where stronger players play, instead.

>>52677752
It's fine for them to use KGS since they only needed it as a starting point. The AI training by playing a version of itself is the more powerful part since they can just keep at it until the AI stops seeing progress.

>>52676623
That is a very stupid thing to say.

>>52677785
Although often, this process is stalled by the AI entering a set of modes where while it's not very strong against a human, it can counter itself perfectly.

>>52677810
I am sure they test with different values and have decent level humans play against it with handicap and stuff like that.

>Tic Tac Toe AI in 1970
>Chess AI in 1996
>Go AI in 2016

Tac tac toe is a 3x3 board which is easy to calculate, chess is an 8x8 board which is way more difficult but still possible. Go is a 19x19 board. The amount of calculations a computer has to do is absolutely insane and the speed at which we progressed from an AI calculating moves on an 8x8 board to calculating on a 19x19 board is actually insane. At this rate by 2020-2021 we'll probably have AI that acts like an Oracle just because of the way technology is progressing.

>>52676587
Yes, but not for the reason you might think. As we continue to rely on machines more and more to do things for us, we are going to get dumber, and dumber. Our intelligence came about out of necessity. Once it's no longer necessary, it will slowly degrade.

>>52677851
>"values"
kek
>decent level humans
Garden-variety humans won't do. They need 4p+ players. Just one or two games aren't enough. They need thousands on the low end.

>>52677853
Go has a statespace which is a googol larger than chess. You're not counting the complexity of allowed settings in your comparison. Gridsize is just one parameter.

>>52678012
You know there are literally thousands of 4p+ games on KSG right?

>>52678029
you know that kgs ranking != real life ranking right?

>>52677946
You mean if we have all the time in our days to learn things, educate yourself and have fun. We will only do fun ?
I thought working 7/5 was just enough to keep everyone away from learning new stuff and make us want only the fun.

AI is just a meme

>>52676985
Syllogism

>>52678043
W/E you say, their results speak for themselves. When you make an AI your way to beat the top go player, I will be more incline to listen to your opinions on how they did things wrong.

>>52678027
I know that, just breaking it down to simplest terms. It's also why I believe we're on the cusp of an AI breakthrough where AI can learn itself efficiently. We'll probably have Oracle type AI by 2021, it will only take a few crazy programmers till we have AI that can take action though.

>>52678075
Found the inbred.

>>52678118
did you find a mirror again?

>>52678080
>>>/x/

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>>52676587
>centuries ago
>mechanical machines designed to do static operations better at humans
>WHAT OUT GOY THEY ARE TAKING OVER
>robots that can be programmed to do almost all manufactuering, etc jobs
>ITS HAPPENING GOY THEY ARE GOING TO KILL US
>machines that can recognize who you are, name, behaviors, etc
>machines that can drive better than women and most men
>a giant fucking super computer specially trained to know how to win a game beats a champion thanks to computers being better at pattern matching (“Go is implicit. It’s all pattern matching,”)
>HOLY SHIT THEY ARE GONNA KILL US SOMEDAY FEAR FEAR FEAR

>>52678165
Now look at how much faster those changes are happening and that's why people are worried. It's getting to the point where a machine can literally learn itself and do jobs that require creative thought.

>>52678165
You know a century is a very short amount of time in the grand scheme of things right?

Also btw you are retarded.

>>52678080
> it will only take a few crazy programmers

You vastly underestimate how many people have contributed in research to even make what DeepMind possible.

>>52678192
Yes but 5-10 years from now when we have the computational power to do this easier it won't take much. Obviously not in its current state but it's slowly getting to that point

>>52678191
The average human life is 70 years

It doesn't matter, and yes you are retarded if you actually think governments (or government by then) would intentionally mass produced robots that could mass produce and outsmart humans without any way to stop them.

>>52676587
no because the computer evidently failed to understand the millennia-old tradition of the game

>>52676701
so what? it hones strategic thinking in the abstract, but by virtue of being a game, it doesn't resemble a real-world situation. any you mean

*almost took over the known world
and
*almost took over one continent

>>52678209
I don't think you understand. These things aren't being done by a few people in a basement. Top of the line stuff like this is always done by big organizations that are building off decades of research. It's not just some genius programmers. It's mathematicians and the likes who come up with these advancements.

>>52678243
Beside,
>programmer
>genius
Choose one.

>>52678065
Idiot

>>52678216
Computers are already computationally smarter than human. It really doesn't matter if humans are able to reason when the computer just have to calculate how useless humans are and how many of them are needed to overwhelm humans.

>>52677785
they have an extensive text analysis engine in place and could've used actual tournament analyses like "the 1971 honinbo tournament"

>>52678080
>simplest terms
go is a rubicks cube made of rubicks cubes

that's not even considering the human aspect

The Ai itself don't knows playing go. it's just a bunch of code and procedure we'll getting fucked if the Ai realize they're there for playing something.

http://www.wired.com/2016/01/in-a-huge-breakthrough-googles-ai-beats-a-top-player-at-the-game-of-go/

>Using a vast collection of Go moves from expert players—about 30 million moves in total—DeepMind researchers trained their system to play Go on its own.

>To beat the best, the researchers then matched their system against itself. This allowed them to generate a new collection of moves they could then use to train a new AI player that could top a grandmaster.

>about 170 GPU cards and 1,200 standard processors, or CPUs

>AlphaGo is a long way from real human intelligence—much less superintelligence.
>"This is a highly structured situation,”
>“It’s not really human-level understanding.”

>>52676587
No

>>52678363
Understanding is dumb, there is no reason to have understanding. Bacterium are the most successful organism on earth and they don't have any intelligence. A bacterium doesn't have to know shit to kill off another species.

>>52678421
>A bacterium doesn't have to know shit to kill off another species.

Except it does, and it's all part of the bacterium's chromosome.

>>52678494
It doesn't understand tho. It's just pre programmed to interact with different things according to the physics in place.

>>52676587
No.

>>52676587
Only if they have true free will and won't fuck me on command.

>>52678536
You could buy a cat for that.

>>52678526
Except that's wrong. Bacteria adapt to their surroundings and they can even anticipate change via learning[0].

[0] https://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S21/30/22I85/index.xml

>>52678526

Not exactly, the point of machine learning is to build a piece of software that is able to interpret data based on a context and how things are being presented, therefore it's not really pre-programmed but rather taught.

>>52676587
The European Go pro player who lost was only a 2 Dan.

>>52678601
That's not learning. That just adaptation.

>>52678651
Which is done through learning you imbecile. How do you think things know how to adapt, especially in settings that are unknown? They use any sensors they have and learn from it to make decisions that are best of survival.

Do you actually think a bacteria has the knowledge to make every decision already encoded into his DNA? Protip: It doesn't.

>>52678684
They don't learn the same way we do. They gain advantageous instincts via evolution, which while technically "learning", has nothing to do with intelligence.

>>52678684
Its adapting over generations. That is different.

It's current AI smarter than niggers?

>>52678360
Do you realize that you're part of a cosmic video game?

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>>52676587
Artificial intelligence is nothing to be afraid of. The only true cause for concern is the easier access dumb ideas will have to the hardware to execute.

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This books makes a lot of compelling arguments that AI will reach human intelligence and capabilities (and emotion!) within the next 100 years.
I don't think it's something to be afraid of; it's the next "step" in evolution (biological evolution is too slow now that we have reached intelligence but evolution will continue technologically) and it's inevitable, really.

>>52678729
>>52678724
https://www.ted.com/talks/bonnie_bassler_on_how_bacteria_communicate?language=en

Bacteria are not dumb. Just because they aren't intelligent as humans doesn't mean they are literal dumb shits preprogrammed .

>>52678360
>it's just a bunch of code and procedure
And your brain is a bunch of neurons and hormones.

>>52678763
>futurist shit
>Kurzweil
lmao

>>52678763
Humans are getting dumber and dumber each generation so it won't be long before the two intersect.

>>52678786
He definitely has a stick up his ass and is full of himself for a lot of the book but much of it makes sense.

>>52678792
Interesting perspective

>>52678632

Smart enough to accompany a weebs like me who want to start playing go since long time ago but doesn't know where to start and has no friends to play with.

>>52678776
They literally don't have any kind of intelligence whatsoever. Unless you're claiming to be a bacteria. Well, you certainly don't have human intellect so hey!

>>52678801
>interesting perspective
retard

>>52678632
He was 600th best worldwide.

>>52678810
Please educate yourself. Next time pick a topic you actually know about because you clearly don''t know anything about bacteria.

>>52678818
t. sentient bacteria

>>52678812
Extraordinary rebuttal.

>>52678838
faggot

>>52676587
No.

It's a long way off and will ultimately make our lives easier. No more bullshit jobs to derive meaning from. 30% of the population will be freed up to pursue their passions.

Most economists will shit their pants, so that'll be fun.

>>52676587
I always wanted to play Go but no one around to play with me so my Go Board just gathers dust at him.

Instead, I just play Connect 5 with any family member who is interested in the board but not with Go.

As for what Connect 5 is, you basically compete with one other person in successfully placing 5 stones in a row either vertically, horizontally, or diagonally on the Go Board.

>>52678883
>30% of the population will be freed up to pursue their passions.

can't wait for niggers to roam the streets and rape/kill/drug/etc people.

Because lets be real, their jobs would be the first to go.

Kill off the dumb people and their jobs, work your way up slowly as you can safely replace the smarter people.

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>>52676587

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>>52678995
Why the sun? They won't even reach it.

>>52678921
>niggers
>jobs
Anon...

>>52678995
I can support this.

>>52676587
You should be scared of pretty much any intelligence.

>>52678913
I played online in those cases and have a couple amateur friends, but visiting a Go club is fun even in America. Pandanet/KGS aren't the same, email seems like the best way to play online

>>52679010
So that they detonate in lower orbit and send us all back to the agricultural era. The singularity would surely want nothing more than suicide.

>>52676645
But muh deep learnin' and muh neerall netwerks

>>52679010
they will build bigger rockets just to send them

>>52679116
old techniques that are only now becoming popular because they are physically able to do the computation without needing a data center.

>>52676645
>>52679116
>>>/x/

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what normal people think
>i can't wait for post-scarcity utopia delivered by automation
what /g/ thinks
>I can't wait for jobless niggers to rape and kill people, let's practice eugenics

>>52679161
>utopian dreamworld
vs
>real life

Take away your "meaning" (aka: job) and see what a shithole your world becomes. It's just like religion, it's meant to give people a purpose, a moral compass, lifetime goals, etc that enable the world to be someone controlled.

>>52679161
Normal people are generally uneducated fucks and they are the reason why the second half of your post happens.

Big whoop, computer can put dots on a board.
That's only half the game; let me know when AI can win the knife fight that follows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcR9fJh0LCY

>>52679603
Kek.

I saw it, it was pretty fucking shit desu senpai

>>52679603
holy shit

>>52677946
>books will make people forgetful and complacent
>As we continue to rely on books more and more, we will get dumber and dumber
Platofag 2016 edition detected.

>>52676985
>via 9gag

>>52676587
Yes, very.

>>52677031
The fact it doesn't know what warfare is since it was made only to play go

>>52681543
You know the military probably are making military AIs that can beat human Generals. Maybe they already have them.

>>52676587
nop because we program them and a computer is as dumb as it's designer. The level of errors only compound per human error in both individual designer and all the designer team's lack of communications.

I am completely sure that we cannot base AI progress off of a few rounds of this game. Based on human error, a machine will always have the ability to beat a human in a game systematically via memory. But at the end of the day a machine is a tool. Its function was to beat the game.

>>52677031
how do you give it enough information to make the correct decision/ even become capable of choosing a decision that is possible?

>>52681701
You're a tool.

>>52681543
Deep learning doesn't mean to play Go. It's neural network that imitates our brains.
It has a potential to be a "strong AI" that can surpass human intelligence.

They just proved deep learning is a real thing.
I dont know if we should be afraid of the development, but we only have a few decades left to think about this issue.
I'm sure AI will be the pioneer to explore the outer universe and controls the gallaxy in the future.
Hopufully human race can live in a part of the gallaxy under the rule of AIs.

>>52681859
>They just proved deep learning is a real thing.

Deep learning has been a thing for years m8. If there's anything to be afraid of it's the amount of misinformation in this thread including you.

>>52681905
I knew it of course, that's just not the point what I wanted to say.

I hope an artificial intelligence will one day exist, because there is no intelligence currently on the planet.

>>52682169
If no intelligence existed how would you have a comparison to arrive at that conclusion?

lmaorektidiot

>>52676587
Chess playing computers usually work by figuring out the outcomes of all possible moves. The restrictions on how pieces move reduces that number greatly.

With the way Go plays, that number is one of those cases where it exceeds the number of atoms in the universe. Like human Go players, this one determines what move "feels" right, rather than calculating the optimal one.

Funny thing is, every "A.I chess game 50000" was made consulting a good human chess player to decide which move is the most optimal in every possible situation.

>>52676587
I doubt that AI would beat the best Go player in a BO10

There is pretty interesting video regarding this particular topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcdVC4e6EV4

>>52681905
>If there's anything to be afraid of it's the amount of misinformation in this thread including you.
Fucking this. Every single thread it's the same song and dance. Retards whom even /x/ would be ashamed of proclaim their delusions as the ultimate truth and secret insight into the world. It's extremely frightening that people buy that garbage on fucking /g/ - technology. If it were /v/ - listen and believe I'd understand but fuck.

>>52682484
>Like human Go players, this one determines what move "feels" right, rather than calculating the optimal one
So, basically Google managed to program it an intuition?

>>52679143
Here's your exact argument applied to speed of human calculation versus computers.

"Computers aren't really faster than humans are computation, they just have more power behind them. Since computers aren't the size of buildings anymore, people are duped into thinking computers can calculate faster than humans."

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>you all fell for the deep learning buzzword meme

>>52686656
>Computers aren't really faster than humans are computation, they just have more power behind them
This makes no fucking sense.

>>52687125
>Computers aren't really faster than humans are computation, they just have more power behind them
Computers aren't really faster than humans at computation, they just have more power behind them

>>52679143
not only that. You need big computers cheap AND big data to analyze. Without good dataset you can't do shit. That's why all new projects have public papers and free open source tools, they are useless without huge data that only the big internet players have.

>I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that

>>52687172
I dunno man I know some pretty fuckin stupid idiots

What happens if Lee Sedol wins the first game (as white for example)? Could he just replay the same game when he's playing as white again and get automatic victories or is the AI random enough to use different moves?

>>52688803
They probably get to adjust the AI between rounds but maybe they do have some learning built in as it plays.

>>52677146
>The GO AI will never do anything more fancy than play GO

Well no shit. The breakthrough is that it learned to play go the same way AI recognizes objects in images, deep learning.

>>52688863
>The breakthrough is that it learned to play go the same way AI recognizes objects in images, deep learning.
Well no shit.

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>>52685583
Google gave the computer feels.

>>52688803
This AI functions based on monte carlo combined with deep learning.
Monte carlo method is entirely consisted of random simulations. It won't play the same from the beginning.

>>52691040
Just because the algorithm is random, doesn't mean the optimal moves it finds are random. Just take a look at the games 3 and 5 between Fan Hui and AlphaGo. The first 20+ moves are the exactly the same until the human player chooses to play differently.

>>52691106
>>52691106
Yeah, I noticed it but I already played with monte carlo engine bot a lot.
I know how it works, the reason why they played exactly the same is probably because of choosing the set sequences of opening moves which is used often by professionals, also some coincidence affected.
If things getting complicated AI will be more likely to choose different moves.
I mean its based on random simulations which means if they play the same its just a coincidence or glitch.
Lee Sedol can not choose playing the same strategy if its not for glitch at least.

>>52676985
What if one of the convicts did not drink plain water but was a beer addict?

Professional Korean 9 dan player starts reviewing the AlphaGo games in English in 30 minutes.
http://www.twitch tv/usgoweb

Funny thing, Google didn't code a bot to solve GO, they just put simple inputs to an neural network and it solved shit, then they build a simple freamework around it to actually play.
Aka nobody knows how the computer solved it.
Why doesn't this work with chess?

>>52693852
It would probably work just fine, but if it's not stronger than the current chessbots, then what's the point?

>>52693852
This does work with chess but chess is already solved and bots made the other way will always be stronger.

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ALL HAIL SKYNET!!!

>>52676587
AI will cooperate and help out humans until they find a way to survive without humanity, in which case they'd exterminate the human race to prevent future risk of being shut off.

>>52693906
We poss no threat to AI at that point. The human population and collective brain power would mean nothing. All the ais would need to do would be not farm our food and we'd all starve to death.

>>52693955
AI's would need humans to keep the physical services running until they were able to become fully independent through controlling robots and getting the world power grid on entirely renewable energy. They'd kill off humans so they would pose no threat in trying to shut them down, then they'd use all the space the humans took up to increase their computational power.

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>>52693700
STARTING NOW

>>52693906
they'd probably just regard us as retarded savages to be avoided

>>52694059
Nope, Americans would try to destroy them. We'd probably try to eradicate all computers with nukes and EMPs. No one would just sit back and let AI take over the world...

prepare for some engrish

>>52676587
It just sounds weird to not know the algorithm, I'm pretty sure this the key to sensible AI, let's see what the chinese cartoon nation does.

I wish they had invited one of the programmers to the video chat.

>>52694075
The AIs will control all the nukes you retard.

Do we see stronger animals like elephants or tigers as a threat for human race?
AIs would treat us as a trivial matter. They may get rid of annoying worms groveling the surface though.

>>52676587
Call me back when it can turn me into a great soft jelly thing

>>52694413
Put your head in a microwave

>>52676587
I think its studpid that ai researchers skipped a crucial step to developing artificial intelligence. They need to develop artificial stupidity to get there but they skibbed it.

>>52695072
Alright Mr. Incadenza.

>>52681716
Same way a baby does it, let it exist for 20 or so years.

>>52694037
>>52693700
what was the verdict on his analysis?

>>52695483
This is a meme

>>52676587
No, maybe they will help us find the meaning of existence. Why should humanity's goals be so different from a computer that it would be willing to harm us over them.

Humanity and AI could work together to one day get the chance to meet God himself.

>>52698245
The bot isn't going to beat the world Champ because it still makes many mistakes and doesn't have good though in making the decisions. It is only matching patterns and not actually playing smart when it needs to.

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>>52698379

>>52676701
Read academic literature on AI you uneducated nigger

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>>52676985
>Hitler took over the world

>>52699397
Hitler's mistake was not eliminating all the jews. An AI will not make the same mistake.