Why do people hate it?
Just because it is beginner friendly doesn't mean its just for beginners. Many professionals use FL simply because the workflow is very efficient and some of the preinstalled plugins such as Harmor are great.
Young Chop uses FL studio and he's a god.
I guess there's outliers in every field though.
Because way too many 15 year olds just pirate FL Studio and shit out whatever they can make in an hour. This is why FL Studio has a reputation in my opinion
However for every hundred or so artists trying to push their shitty mixtape, occasionally you find good artists using FL Studio.
Really its the artist that makes music good, not the tools they use.
Because it's the easiest one.
Because it's the cheapest one.
Because it's the one that people pirate the most.
Because it's the one that all 12 year old "bedroom producers" use in conjunction with pirated massive to make shit-tier amateur music using ALL the presets.
It's kinda like how everyone blames mcdonalds for making americans fat, but their portion sizes are actually really miniscule compared to every other fast food chain.
They're just the biggest target because they're the most accessible one.
But can't this be applied to Photoshop as well? Photoshop has a horrible reputation among scrubby ass graphic designers, among social media for being blamed for fake content, among the beauty industry for doctoring photos and pressuring society. Yet it is still undefeated in the industry as a whole.
Photoshop has no competition at all.
Among DAWs, you can produce quality music with fl, cubase, logic, protools, reason, it doesn't fucking matter what you choose, they're all competent software packages.
What alternatives to photoshop exist?
GIMP? What a piece of shit.
>Why do people hate it?
I honestly don't even know what it is. Its got fl studio and I don't its like a little deformed orange is it about florida. Wait im reading.No one in the thread even knows and what the shoe for tell me
if you use *any* DAW, chances are your music is overproduced shit using gimmicky effects to mask your lack of creativity
I only use csound, puredata, analog synthesizers, and a four track reel-to-reel recorder because I actually know how sound works
People hate what they don't understand. I've used FL Studio since it was a simple beat creation tool, and the program has been rebuilt from scratch several times over. I've used cubase, reason, ProTools, Ableton, but keep coming back to FL because for creating electronic music it is a very convenient workflow. If you mostly do live music, Ableton is probably a better choice. If you use any other music program that handles VSTs, you can load the FL Studio program itself as a VST within that program, and use FL studio to load other VSTs and plugins that your DAW can't usually load on its own.
FL Studio is simple to get started, but can be very complex if you choose to use all of its advanced features. Most people I've encountered who hate it either have never tried it since version 1, or only use live instruments in their workflow.
If they bothered to try the latest version (v12) they would see it is a completely different interface to how it was in version 1, 5, 10 etc, and has far greater processing ability than in the past.
FL Studio gets a bad reputation for all the reasons listed before, but I feel that nowadays it's as good as the main competitors (if not better in some aspects).
The main advantage of FL Studio are IMO the native synths and effects, since many of them are high quality, unique, and easy to use.
Good thing they also sell them as separate VSTs so I can use them in Ableton and have the best of both worlds.
It's not the tools that makes good music, its the musician behind it. Fl is very beginner friendly yet can be very complex and powerful in the right hands. Shit, back in the day, people just used a drum machine and a turntable and produced quality and even completely new genres.
This thread is dumb because OP is asking for opinions to attribute value to something people can agree or disagree with, while pretending to post with authority. Also, association arguments don't prove anything. For example:
>FL most pirated daw, beginner friendly, and associated with newb producers/productions (probably due to population using the program vs quality productions made. Also fl is lightweight and easy to use right out of the box)
>therefore, FL is newb program xxxDD
>Logic used by big name producers
>therefore logic is best
Either people don't recognize ease of use vs population using it, and therefore greater statistical data to sway any argument, or most of these posts are b8.
Final verdict for OP: program is fine and quite powerful if you know how to use it. If not, that doesn't mean the program sucks due to your lack of knowledge.
FL12 best btw senpai
I see it on forums, Youtube, and various social media.
There are tons of skilled producers who use FLS, and I have nothing against it (I actually have it installed on my computers), but the community appears to be mostly filled with LE MONSTERCAT, LE DUBSTEP SEEMLESS kids.
Where do you find this high quality community of FL Studio users?
That was included with the forums I was talking about.
Grantad, it's well above the level of many other plaforms, but it's still full of children.
Not that the other communities are perfect, they are very far from it. But FL's one is very evident compared to others.
With such a large userbase, ur likely to come across shit posters way too often. I suggest finding a forum that is genre specific to your likes, and discuss FL and techniques with people with similar tastes
I know, but the shitposters (whether they are deliberately shitposting or not) are so many it seems like the bad apples are the majority of the bunch.
Also it doesn't help that FL is easier to learn at the beginning, so a lot of newbies start with it, and once they get better they switch to someone else, so you end up mostly coming across people who only just started because many of the good ones just left the community.
>Not 100% true for everyone.
I didn't say that.
I said "a lot of newbies", not "all newbies".
It basically means that a lot of people do it, sorry if I didn't explain myself correctly.
I use both Ableton and FL myself.
How do you find Bitwig? Do you think it still needs a few more years to have its shortcomings fixed, or it would be somparable to the other big names as a standalone DAW?
I hate it because the automation for the song sequencer is still cv-style and to me that is unforgivable.
However, It has an amazing multiband compressor, and sytrus can do 90% of what operator can, and harmor is an amazing synthesizer allowing you to turn rare pepes into sick sound bites a la pepe.
But fl allows you to install these as vsts so I'll use those and stay away from fl.
What did you post those videos for?
To prove that FL users can be pros, or to show why it has a bad reputation?
Because all I see are barely competent producers who barely know what they're doing (especially Avicii).
(Long term wise maybe) compared to other DAWs no.
Debatable, but for a kb/m setup (or rather just mouse) it definitely is in comparison to Lamelton.
Everything else is true tho.
Very easy at that level.
You could always become a world-class producer and make that kind of stuff, only at a higher level, and that would be hard.
That stuff is just not very well produced, and it sounds obsolete. Like it was made 15 years ago with the limited technology of that time.
Depending on how much effort you put in, you can go from zero to that in 1 or 2 years.
I forgot to mention, as >>52692426 and >>52692442 said, all this without presets or samples, and if you use those it's extremely easy, as you would only need to use "ingredients" made by other people.
the thing about presets is most of them sound like shit when you put them in with other elements of a track and it usually sounds wrong unless you tweak the preset to something else
It depends on what presets.
If you download some freebies for Sylenth1 or Massive, you're obviously bound to get shitty amateur sounds, but if you get some big-name stuff, then, as long as you know what you're doing, you won't have that kind of problems.
Also, do you consider rompler packs as presets? Because there are many famous producers who use tons of Nexus and Kontakt pre-made sounds, which can sound extremely good and are made by someone else.
romplers are pretty much presets and you can control the parameters to a certain degree to change the sound
I like romplers for writing my basic parts and exporting the midi and replacing them with synth sounds that ive made
I have halion sonic and air xpand2 romplers
The highest point of my career was someone recommending my album to someone else on a random /mu/ rec thread, so I would say I'm unknown as fuck.
I make "experimental" stuff for a lack of a proper term, I just ignore genre conventions and do stuff that I like.
Ah, I see, thank you anyway.
I thought you were somewhat famous/successful in your field and wanted to ask a few question to a pro at that level, so I started to get excited lol.
I like that file you posted tho.
A lot, depending on which competitor you're compring it to.
Do you expect us to make a list?
Also it's not only a matter of how many features, but also how they're implemented.
There's a reason why people leave it once they gain experience.
Everyone seems to shit on it for being "too accessible" despite the fact that it's quite powerful. I think people are angered that shit producers tend to use it, but that's not a fault of the program.
It's because they need to be cool in front of their audience who thinks laptops are divided in Mac and everything else underneath.
There are also various practical reasons, such as an increased stability (so it's less likely to crash during a show than a Windows computer), and the fact that being the most "standard" computers in the planet, they're easier to replace and quickly set up anywhere in the world (another model would be way harder to find).
Also many of them are technologically illiterate and don't even consider the non-mac option, just like their "normie" fanbase.
All this has nothing to do with the kind of preference that someone would have regarding the choice of a tool like a DAW.
It's a false analogy.
frank jayfcee uses fl and he doesn't afraWETBACK
> Was the most lightweight, easy-to-pirate DAW in the early 00's
> Early 00's
> Amateur EDM "producers" and DJs made garbage music using the default synths/drums, and oversaturated the web with them
> Mid 00's
> Amateur Southern Hip Hop "producers" made garbage snap/ringtone rap using the default synths/drums and oversaturated the web with them
> Late 00's
> Amateur House/Dubstep "producers" made garbage music using the default synths/drums and oversaturated the web with them
> Amateur Trap/Drill "producers" made garbage music using the default synths/drums and oversaturated the web with them
ty for feedback. can you be more specific? i know effects wise probably sounds like baby's first synth, but is the actual note choice shit as well?
The melody wasn't bad, it was kinda catchy. You just need to work on your overall quality. Having just a single synth and some drums playing isn't a good idea. Try looking up some tutorials and get some new VSTs and sample packs.
Because the natives are complete fucking garbage compared to every other DAW.
Because at one point of time it had a 16 midi device limit.
Because the interface obfuscates plugin information constantly.
Because the sampler doesn't let you type in exact numbers to work with.
Because even in one of the recent versions, working with audio clips past 2048 measures would corrupt your project file.
Because writing custom scripts for midi controllers is awful compared to other DAW's.
Because they still haven't fixed timing issues with internal MIDI that causes industry standard plugins to desync and crash.
Because some of the natives still attempt to send MIDI commands at audio rate.
Because there wasn't even swing available in the piano roll until 12.
Because there is no easy way to access external MIDI processing.
>Because the natives are complete fucking garbage compared to every other DAW.
Are you talking about the plugins?
Care to explain?
I actually find most of them to be quite good actually.
Tell me one non-proprietary DAW that's comparable to the main famous ones that doesn't require a degree in engineering and excessive (and time-consuming) tinkering just to get a basic result...
Also, why does it matter if it's not free? What are the downsides of a DAW being proprietary?
You don't have to look any further than the equalizers it comes with. They're more limited in functionality and provide less information to the user than plugins released more than 10 years ago. Also it's been years and they still don't even have a DeEsser packaged with their software. Not everyone wants to throw a generic multiband compressor into their audio chain for something that could be taken care of in seconds with a dedicated plugin while giving better end results.
Fair enough... I use third party for those anyway.
What about the synths? For example Harmor is a beast and Sytrus is extremely useful for a lot of stuff.
Some effects are nice too. I particularly like Gross Beat and frequently use it in Ableton too when I'm stuck and want to try something random and unpredictable.
so you read that guys helpful advice, and all you got out of it was a jab at massive and Reddit?
whos the bator now?
Okay fine, not ALL the natives are completely awful. It's just the design philosophy of FL, in my opinion, is to provide limited functionality and "pretty" visual output. I feel that they limit functionality or make it more difficult to find so it's harder for beginners to get overwhelmed and fuck things up accidentally. FL studio is the equivalent of trying to drive an automatic car at Le Mans. There's nothing wrong with driving automatic if you're just dropping your kids off at soccer practice. I tried to use Harmor for a few days, and just didn't like the UI flow. Sytrus is just another generic FM synth which is entirely superseded by FM8 or any other modern FM VST synth. For myself personally I use different DAW's depending on what I'm doing. so I'd like to think I'm more objective when it comes to DAW's.
The guy tells you to not play around with the DAW and watch tutorials instead, that's literally the opposite of anyone who actually knows shit would say. You don't build musical skill simply by reading in the same way you don't become a good painter simply by reading painting books.
His method is simply the fastest way to learn technical DAW stuff and do "acceptable" genrebabby Soundcloud crap.
Yeah, I got that feeling as well, and it's the thing I hate the most in FL.
After all there isn't one DAW that's superior in everything, and each one has its strengths and weaknesses. Using them when you need something that's done best on them is the master race choice.
I read it some time ago, so I may be mistaken, but I remember him telling youto do that in the beginning, and when you understand your tools, stop (or reduce) it and start spending your time on actual practice.
It has a ton of MIDI feature in its piano roll and its integration between plugins make it very easy to do things like resampling and manipulating audio, especially when you want to do resampling stuff. Going between Harmor and Edison is a very fast and fun way to make great sounds that wouldn't be possible in other DAWs.
Also the Patcher is insanely powerful.
>The difference between amateurs and experts is that amateurs just fuck around their DAW, while experts actually LEARN and practice with EFFICIENCY.
All he does is basically act all high and mighty because he read what sidechaining is and that's all that his "guide" is: decent resources for technical information.
The DAW is simply a tool, a means to an end which is creative expression.
If you don't actually practice and explore your own language you will be a tasteless Soundcloud fag that only emulates the current meme genre hoping to become famous when in reality the ones who become famous are the innovators.
He even recommends downloading Vengeance samples which is an obvious meme newbie mistake.
I just love to booger-up file names.....
What part of "guide for starting out" you don't understand?
Maybe you have no patience and want to become a successful musician right away just by knowing how to be creativ with the DAW without understanding it, while some people want to do all the nice things you said, but only after they have a solid grasp on how to use their tools.
If you started doing what you do today and almost only focus on practice, you will find yourself not knowing what you're doing. You'll basically be like Avicii in the video posted earlier (which is literally a joke in the community), while if you spent a few months getting good with the tools, you can start a bit later butyou'll have complete control over your creativity, not being limited by your ignorance of the tool, which by now has become an extension of yourself, instead of some software you can only grasp at a basic level.
Then you start to develop your creativity and all you've said.
Vengeance samples are good for generic cookie cutter music, which is good to make if you're just starting. Once they follow the tutorial and get more knowledge, they'll know what to keep and what to replace.
This is literally just a tutorial on how to be a newbie. It's not supposed to teach you how to be an innovator.
I used to produce in FL Studio until it stopped working. I was then forced to learn ableton, and holy shit the quality of my stuff jumped by an order of magnitude because I couldn't rely on the fancy good for nothing FL Studio presets. This was about 3 years ago now.
that's not saying much considering my stuff still sounds like shit
The only thing I can say FL has over Ableton is the piano roll. It's top notch, ableton's is super clunky in comparison.
anyway might as well share one of my tracks and get torn a new one.
let me point some things out first though
>The first minute and a half completely blows ass. I know this, I'm re-writing it. It was a kludge/jurry rig just to get SOMETHING in there.
>There is no transition at the end of the second part (about 4:03), I just haven't written it yet.
>The mastering/mixing also blows ass
Also pic related. Extremely cheesy but it gets the point across.
Does it work by drag&drop between plugins with complete compatibility in everything?
I agree that there are individual tools that are better in their specific fields, but this workflow (watch some Seamlessr videos if you don't know what I'm talking about) is very fun and useful to make new ideas on the fly, and the tediousness alone of using different third-party plugins makes the process worse.
Also nobody says we can't use other plugins. But this particular process is extremely smooth in FL.
Yeaaaah, about that.
What had happened was, I started off the song about a year ago as a one off, "fuck around see what happens" kind of thing.
Because I didn't wanna put too much effort into it I just used one of Ableton's built in mix/master presets.
Lo-and-behold, it turned into a full blown project. I KNEW I should have taken out the preset and done actual mixing, once it turned serious but me being the lazy asshole I am, kept on putting it off and here we are now.
It's going to take me an incredibly long time to re-mix/master it just because the entire song's dynamics are now built around that one preset. I fucked myself over there.
The technical information is fine but the problem is that he tries to dictate the practice methods and the creative aspect of it too like telling you his recommended VSTs and samples which is retarded since what he recommended just covers a narrow subset of electronic genres.
99% of "producers" follow these kinds of guides while being creatively bankrupt and having zero self-criticism because they followed a guide so it MUST be good, right?
Just open Soundcloud and you will hear thousands upon thousands of samey meme shit.
Starting wrong won't help you either, you have no reason to learn with Vengeance samples, it's literally herd mentality and I doubt most people would realize they are shit unless someone explicitly told them.
If you don't like how something sounds solo before compression, you won't like it after. It's probably still better than 90% of what these people posting "advice" here are making though. Get some books, and try to apply the concepts as you read along. As much as it's overhyped, you don't have to use magic to learn proper mixing techniques. You won't regret it,
can you give a link to a video that specifically shows this?
faggot here. can you listen to this, i added two new melodies, are they okay or do they sound really generic?
i know the technical aspect of it sucks, just wondering about the musical side of things
You don't have to believe anything I say, but at the present moment your stance is more or less...
"I won't bother to try different methods because I like the first way I tried it."
But it doesn't dictate anything. He's just telling you how he thinks you should start to get a good grasp on things so you can later start to go on your way.
This was literally posted in response to OP not even knowing where to start.
It's not starting wrong just because it doesn't teach you to be unique and innovating from the start.
If you're starting to learn painting, you first learn how to operate a brush by painting mundane subjects, so that when you need to be creative you can rely on the experience you gained by training on those basic techniques that everyone uses.
Nobody becomes a great painter just by fucking around with a paintbrush without knowing what he's doing.
The guy's not telling you that this is what you should do in your career. It's what you should do if you don't know where to start.
If you're a /fit/izen, see it like StartingStrength. It's not supposed to be your program to be the new Mister Olympia, but it's just the road you take for the first months to build a foundation that allows you to start without being clueless and overwhelmed.
Literally every teacher is going to teach the generic and mundane basics to a clueless student. In any subject.
I really do need to learn how to actually mixing, up until now it's been "Does this make my ears bleed? No? Alright it's good" and I know it doesn't sound good but I legitimately don't even know how to start
I'll look it up, give me a few minutes.
I use 99% Ableton for everything since the plugins I like in FL are also available as VSTs. I was just listing some redeeming features in that DAW and this is one of the ways I use it and why I keep it installed.
Didn't say it's the only way it's possible, or even the only way I do it.
This is basically it. There are many variations of these techniques, sicne you can add plugins and do more complex stuff, but this is the gist of it.
He literally tells you to download Massive and Vengeance samples and stick with it in the first two posts, if that's not dictating then what is? There's a very strong bias towards EDM on all his posts and I very much doubt he ever wrote anything other than EDM.
If that's all you want to do then fine but you shouldn't take it as an "all-encompassing" beginner guide. The first book he links for example only has a very short chapter on music theory with literal babby-tier shit with a very strong emphasis on how you use it in EDM specifically.
Although this is kinda basic and could easily be done in other DAWS with no significant difference, it's important to remember that you can always mix the techniques together.
For professionals doing live performances, yes most of the reasons they use macs are technical. If you looked into it just a little bit, you'd know exactly why it's preferred in a live environment.
the melodies and the bassline are good, but that wacky beat, just kills it for me. maybe more of a "standard" techno beat would be better.
>He literally tells you to download Massive and Vengeance samples and stick with it in the first two posts, if that's not dictating then what is?
Also, you keep ignoring that everything he's saying is to teach you how to start. IIRC he even says it, that once you get good enough you can start to go on your own and find the resources you like.
>There's a very strong bias towards EDM on all his posts and I very much doubt he ever wrote anything other than EDM.
EDM is incredibly various and the complexity of some of the generes allow you to get a really good training that you wouldn't get simply by fucking around and doing experimental music that's nothing but shitty noise that you only convince yourself that it's good because you (since you avoided learning the basics) can't do better.
>If that's all you want to do then fine but you shouldn't take it as an "all-encompassing" beginner guide.
Just because you don't want to produce an EDM genre as your main thing it doesn't mean it's not incredibly useful to learn how to produce it.
You can always start doing different things after you do your "training years" with EDM.
I personally produced generes that I completely dislike, just to be an all-around better producer and it has helped immensely with the other generes.
>The first book he links for example only has a very short chapter on music theory with literal babby-tier shit with a very strong emphasis on how you use it in EDM specifically.
That's because he tells you to read it TO START learning about music production.
He doesn't tell you that that book is the only thing you need to be a good musician. He tells you it's useful to start.
i know very little about drums, and i have a very poor sense of timing. is there anything that can be done to fix this? or some resource that could break down what the drums are doing and why they are doing it?
or really any resource on the non-technical aspects of music, approached from a scientific perspective? when i listen to musicians, they all seem to talk about 'feeling' and 'emotions' and other such bullshit, but there has to be some mathematical basis to what works and what doesn't.
You are better off learning music theory from books without the EDM bias.
EDM is not the "base" of music like internet tutorials made you believe, it's simply a collection of very similar genres with a very specific goal in mind.
Again, the technical DAW info is fine, the "advice" disguised as absolute truth is not.
I specifically said that there are technical reasons, WTF?
I know about Mac's audio capabilities, CoreAudio, etc.
I'm not saying there are ONLY non-technical reasons. I'm saying that ON TOP OF THE TECHNICAL REASONS there are also a lot of non-technical ones.
Especially if you consider how technologically illiterate many of them are.
If you want to study how to work percussion in music, just get a book on it. Theory on percussion in normie music directly translates to how it's used in 99% of dance music. You will be recognizing the same patterns over and over again once you learn it,
>You are better off learning music theory from books without the EDM bias.
When you're first starting from scratch? Those resources are insanely easy to understand for anybody, and it's unrealistic to expect someone to advise in-depth reading material to someone who doesn't know anything.
The EDM bias is literally a negligible con, whan you factor in all the pros of easy beginner books like those.
>EDM is not the "base" of music like internet tutorials made you believe
But I don't believe that. You literally made it up.
I just said that it's incredibly useful to learn to produce EDM to get better at producing electronic music of any kind. I didn't say that it's the basic of music lol.
>the "advice" disguised as absolute truth is not.
1- It's not disguised as absolute truth. It's just his opinion. You're free to disagree lol.
It's absurd to expect someone to believe his own opinion isn't the truth, because otherwise it just wouldn't be his opinion in the first place.
2- I've been reading forums and different resources (books, videos, websites, magazines, etc.), and almost everything that Samuel guy said is basically what the majority of the community says (except obviously the details, such as which synths and samples to download, etc.), so you're free to disagree with it, but just because you have a different opinion it doesn't mean his is complete nonsense.
Fruity Loops have become stale with very little new content or real change. For the price of $740 and the promise of free updates for life, there hasn't been significant changes to the DAW and its output of sound with the exception of minor interface revisions and plugins.
Working with a digital DAW also puts you at an extreme disadvantage for anything industry standard. Pro Tools and Logic (and by extension Garageband) all use skeuomorphs to match their analogue equivalents. You won't see any old sound producers using FL when they were trained on the original audio workstations.There's no reliance of trust with FL or even Ableton, since it's mostly the younger people that use them, but working in Pro Tools you can get mastery advice from the veterans that will tell you both what NOT to do, and the reason WHY you SHOULDN'T do it.
Good, now try to work in other people's studios and collaborate on projects while the only thing you can carry on you is a fucking laptop. Apple has everyone by the balls with how they've handled making sure almost everything audio related just plugs in and works in a few minutes, and by having their own standards for files and audio. I absolutely hate mac, their brand, and all their overpriced products, but nothing is worse than having to troubleshoot stuff for 20 minutes because normal laptops don't have any standards to work with. Even if some trouble arises with a mac, and the situation requires some configuration, because everyone else had the same problem on their mac too, they know how to fix it. It's a monopoly, and it sucks, but that's the reality. If you want to work with other people, it's almost always going to be easier while using a mac.
that video there has nothing but cropped snippits and not full length songs, so it adds a suckyness to it. but "hands-up" and "bounce" are great for dancing and working out + running. I listen to PsyTrance, so people think I'm a nut case.....
>almost everything that Samuel guy said is basically what the majority of the community says (except obviously the details, such as which synths and samples to download, etc.), so you're free to disagree with it, but just because you have a different opinion it doesn't mean his is complete nonsense.
So you are basically agreeing with me by saying those are his opinions on what he thinks is good.
It's presented in a tutorial format so people assume it's just "how it is done", that's what I'm disagreeing with and that was my initial point, especially since Vengeance is known to be complete shit by anyone competent so the solid technical information is muddied by creatively biased crap.
If you and your collaborator are using two different DAWs on Mac, you're still going to have the same issues working with each other as if you had different DAWs on different operating systems.
Also Everything uses WAV nowadays, and studio sessions are almost always done on one computer, instead of working on one song on two computers.
Online collaborations between different DAWs are usually done by exchanging bounced audio files, MIDI data, and synth patches. All things compatible cross-DAW and cross-OS.
many (if not most) hip-hop producers use Windows and AFAIK they don't have any problem interfacing with the studio equipment, so what are those issues exactly?
>Everybody is arguing about music production
>mfw i just use it to play some hammond and rhodes along with my blues
>So you are basically agreeing with me by saying those are his opinions on what he thinks is good.
Of course those are his opinions. What else could they be?
I also agree on most of said opinions.
>It's presented in a tutorial format so people assume it's just "how it is done"
That's just an assumption... I personally take everything that's posted by some random guy on a forum with a grain of salt. If you blindly believe everything you read on 4chan it's your problem lol
Also how wrong can he be? I mean, it's not like he's teaching people super-wrong stuff and no-nos like a troll... Maybe you think it's sub-optimal advice for a beginner, but it's not that terrible. Especially considering it's just his opinion at the endo of the day.
>especially since Vengeance is known to be complete shit by anyone competent so the solid technical information is muddied by creatively biased crap.
1- Vengeance isn't very good I give you that, but it's not that bad for a beginner who can't manipulate samples yet and needs some pre-processed generic stuff to get started.
I personally almost never use sample packs, so my opinion is kinda limited on this.
2- He wrote a ton of stuff and the things you're nitpicking are just some minuscule irrelevant details.
Ok that you don't agree on some things, but it doesn't mean the rest of it is invalid because of it, especially since it's just a little guide on how to start.
what are you tryingn to say, faggot? that music is just 'muh feelings' and only humans can produce good music cuz 'compuders don't have emotions!!11!' and other gayshit?
lemme guess, you think we have free will via some sort of dualistic connection to a 'soul'. topkek, jewlord.
Some of the snippets are barely tolerable I guess, but the rest seem like the most cliche horrid meme-EDM (memeDM) I've heard.
The music itself sounds pretty good (though the Death Grips sample might be a little too obvious or reminiscent). But as someone else said, the actual sound quality sounds fucked up, in a bad way, like I downloaded a really low bitrate MP3. I don't know if that's intentional on your part or what.
The whole song is just too simplistic and boring, on top of the production and quality seeming low. The bass and melody just aren't interesting to listen to on their own, nor do they seem to synergize well.
Electronic music can easily induce an emotional effect.
It's like this guy doesn't remember the heydays of PC firewire ports being only 300mbit. Everyone has tested their audio hardware with at least most of the macbooks. They haven't tested it with every last single Acer, Travelmate, Extensa, Aspire, Gateway, Asus, Zenbook, Dell, Alienware, HP, Lenovo, Thinkpad, and Toshiba laptop released.
>one person sampled audio years back
>everyone now uses those samples
>implying anyone knows how to do anything in that industry
>implying studio equipment for hiphop producers isn't bought as part of a set from one or two individual companies
Ad hominem aside, there are quite a few problems that arise when interfacing with physical equipment. Everything on OSX is intercepted on the operating system level and treated as generic HID compliant devices, and then get routed by CoreAudio for output . When two devices don't work, you just install a kext file that is blank and then any application that would interface with it will detect it on the application level. Devs for these apps (except for Logic, because Apple is really screwing their pro line) end up including these compatibilities after reaching out to the companies that provide equipment - this results in frequent updates any time there's a significant workflow disturbance.
Windows is a mess in terms of compatibility that usually requires two installs of individual drivers, and then a third driver pushed out by one or both parties so that the two devices would work together in tandem. A lot of searching for shit that is buried and should just work right out of the box. Combine this with the fact that Windows still doesn't have a specific standard on interfaces with high bandwidth-throughput (Apple has had everything from USB, to FireWire, to Thunderbolt), you start to feel latency on older, dropped-support devices.
If your initial goal with music is not feels or wanting to tell a story and instead you want to emulate other shit you hear and potentially get money doing it then music was never for you.
I touched on that point in my original post (pic related).
Also, usually any good non-Mac laptop (anything that costs like a macbook) would be good enough, and usually people carry an audio interface with them.
Doesn't ASIO solve those problems? Serious questions, I honestly don't know.
Convoluted workflow, at least for me. I resample a lot and every time I want to make an audio clip unique it adds a new channel thus creating more clutter and forcing me to manually assign it to a new mixer track. It's a nuisance. In Live I just copy the audio clip I want to resample, change it to my liking, Ctrl+T and drag it to the new track.
Well, I wanted the song to sound really jilted and clipped, it's supposed to be like "end of the world absolutely fucked"
but then there's also
which is completely unintentional, and NOT what it's supposed to sound like. It's supposed to sound fucked in a good way.
I just need to sit down and... re work the entire song. It's gonna be like pulling teeth but it'll worth it.
Music evokes feeling and emotion. It always has, since pre-historic times. Specific rhythms and sequences of notes and how they're adjusted in volume and frequency have been made in history to represent those feelings and emotions.
If you're scoring a movie, you need to have the footage on screen and the music your making cohesive to deliver a satisfactory product. You tap into the history of, and techniques of, a particular emotion in order to make a scene just right. A chase scene to opera is humorous, a fight scene to tribal music is visceral, a death to carnival music is either absurd or offputting.
Same thing goes for just the music industry - what emotion is a person going to be at, and what emotion will they want when they listen to your piece. If you honestly can't tell how a person is supposed to feel when they listen to something really house-y or trance-y, then you have no idea who your target audience is and have music that fits no one in particular.
Music theory is the study of how music functions mechanically so you can analyze all of the music of the past and apply their technique to future work. If you want to learn how to convey an emotion, start with listening to and dissecting older pieces. Find their rhythms, find their scales.
lmms is a joke
I wish it wasn't the case, but it's...
it's like, if Ableton was a porsche, FL Studio a rice box asian import, LMMS would be pic related
FL is limited to 9 plug-ins per mixer track. Ableton is limited to the capacity of your rig per track. Also instrument racks and audio effect racks give a whole new depth to sound design.
If it's your own studio, you can use whatever works for you and it will be fine. You can always sit through some basic troubleshooting to get yourself comfortable with whatever software or hardware you have. Even though it seems like I'm shilling for Mac, I personally use a custom workstation running Win7 for my home studio. It's just so much less of a hassle to use a macbook once I hit the road, and to everything prepared as if everyone else will have a mac.
If you meaning "cookie cutter" or "all sounds the same", then you are correct. most of them use the same samples/sounds and in about 6 songs of that genre ... I've heard the exact same break/drop/bridge in each. same producer? cookie cutter formula?
There's only so much you can do in a given genre before someone bitches about it belonging to a different genre.
Take Dubstep. When I first heard it. I thought; that's nothing more than Hardstyle or DnB with a wobble bass in it.
IMHO all music is to some extent "memed".
ASIO is proprietary, it's custommade and owned by Steinberg. Licensing ruins compatibility, any DAW has to be specifically made to ASIO specifications in order for it to work. If you don't, well then Steinberg just says fuck you.
This is the source of most issues with DAW incompatibility, a dev will have to search for an alternative if they can't afford or don't want the license.
In theory ASIO is a wetdream. But in practice, it's just a fuckton messy.
Also, a thing to note is that while ASIO does provide a foundation for people to build shit on, they do fuck all to actual device interoperability. ASIO only bypasses the original Windows sound kernel to give low latency and accurate output. It does nothing to actually make the device work with other devices.
ok guys, newfaggot again.
I already read TL:DR music.
pls recommend me at least your top 10 music theory books to pirate and learn from.
>why people enjoy fun things
It's catchy music.
I also like this:
I don't want to make complex jazz or classical shit, I just want to make cheap easy catchy garbage for fun.
>fun is bad
I also could name I love stuff like arrival of the queen of shiba of handel but that's not music I want to compose.
It's like saying why people would enjoy a spoon of sugar.
I just use a windows VM on my macbook so I don't have to change anything for my personal projects. It's incredibly gimped compared to my workstation, but it's more than enough to keep working. If you're doing anything live, you want to be using OSX.
Here's an example of the kind of clipped, distorted sound I was TRYING to get.
I guess it's just not working out, huh. That's disappointing, I really liked it.
However, when doing an A/B comparison between the song and mine, I can tell it's super way over the top on my track.
Bootcamp Windows is just Windows. Apple just made drivers for it so that it works as intended (except for Bluetooth).
It's just Windows, so everything from >>52697472 and >>52697187
>This is the source of most issues with DAW incompatibility, a dev will have to search for an alternative if they can't afford or don't want the license.
Are you talking about the DAW developers? If so, you just need to use a DAW that supports it and you're fine for that aspect, no?
Thanks, but I wanted to know how incompatible would a Windows installation on Mac hardware (with proper drivers) would be in a studio setting.
Like if I brought that Macbook in a recording studio to work with someone, would there likely be some sort of significant problem?
Wait, if pictures are simulations of visions, movies and games are simulations of lives, what is music supposed to be a simulation of? It's a bunch of sounds, but more sounds isn't the same thing as a bunch of dots that make a picture.
Maybe a chocolate and strawberry cake is too complex to make to justify the effort neded to learn baking it, so the lazy option, if you're not interested in making your own, would be to settle for something simple and eat the cake that someone else made.
If music producer A and music producer B want to collaborate, but music producer A uses a DAW specced to ASIO, and music producer B uses a DAW specced to some other standard, both of them cannot use each other's files. Music producer B is forced to switch his workflow to go work with music producer A, and learn a completely new DAW. When you have a DAW that uses a different audio interface protocol but is just as comparable in terms of usability and quality, it's not fair to get bullied into forking over more money just so you can work with another person.
Usually this stuff is supposed to happen on a calendar, and that's where collaboration ends full stop and nothing comes of it.
For the DAW developers, anyone that uses ASIO treats everyone else (non-ASIO protocols) like trash. This is primarily the reason why most Windows DAWs are just so damn expensive - the end user ends up paying the cost of ASIO licensing.
Play around with when in your process you bitcrush. It will change for each sound when you want to use it. The order of stages for signal processing can make a huge difference. Most the crazy bass sounds you hear are just people playing around with resampling and vocoders, and clipping out parts they like the sound of. I really wasn't joking about using Guitar Rig for this stuff either.
the most generic, uploaded, remixed techno song ever
and also my favorite when I was in middle school
I'll admit, it's still pretty catchy.
I don't give a shit if it's beethoven 4 movement of the nine symphony or the terra theme.
I love catchy memorable music.
I have listened bach fugues, can't feel a shit, same as shit like jimmy hendrix.
can't feel nothing.
I just listened an aerosmith album, couldn't remember anything and felt generic as fuck.
>have shit tier PC (intel celeron 430, 3GB RAM, geforce 8400 gs, gygabyte 32M)
>windows 10 is slow as fuck (99% cpu use and 2GB use without anything open)
>install windows 7 (99% cpu use by scvhost, follow guides that say how to solve and fail)
>install pirated FLStudio
>Shit tier performance, worse than windows, empty menus
Le use wine anon, wine emulates windows software.
Fuck this linux meme, installing windows XP.
That's because you simply can't appreciate the depth of those kinds of works.
It's like a child watching a painting and seeing a bunch of dudes drawn really well, but a cultured adult who knows about the insanely complex process necessary to create such artwork and knows about the context of the subject and what it means, could even cry just by looking at it.
You're simply an ignorant who can only like simple stuff like children.
I understand the complexity of a fugue, at least in intelectual terms.
still don't feel a shit.
It's my taste, I simply find memorable music, well... memorable.
I rather hear paparrazi from lady gaga than generic classical symphonies by mediocre composers.
This is funny because Nobuo Uematsu was heavily inspired by 70's western rock bands.
Not saying you SHOULD like Bach or whatever but if you think catchy memorable music is not a huge part of classical music theory then you don't know shit.
Quit the EDM act and focus on this shit, everything is practically laid out there for you esp. if you're using FL. Forget the EDM scene for it may be be easy and all. But **It's not your Main Goal** I'd advise you not waste your time. Check in to an artist named Zirconst He pretty much went through your goal and used some EDM stuff in the process.
But if you're trying to make memorable melodies then why exactly are you putting FF music as one of your goals?
You say it like being memorable is something objective.
Nothing against cheesy pop music, but I personally find Bach more memorable than the average pop song, and this would have never been the case if I hadn't start making music myself and learning about music theory.
It just boils down to how your brain perceives certain features and what makes an impact on you.
>The mere concept of collaboration and figuring shit out.
When you have someone using DS on a Asio based file, it goes straight to DA and this especially doesn't matter if all the content is just .wav or .flac audio files.
The only time where this would even matter is if someone has heavily intensive Steinberg shite or just heavy audio processing shite in general like Serum or Diversion.
If you're a good producer, you can make good music in any DAW, but you're most efficient at whichever one you're most comfortable using. If you jack off on /g/ and argue about DAWs all day, you probably make shit music.
Yeah, there's a difference between fuzzy or glitchy and whatever you made. I don't know enough about audio to really say
It's pretty tough to say. I have almost no production experience myself and only know a tiny bit of music theory. I couldn't articulate it. Try the /r/edmproduction subreddit, they seem to be very helpful and full of some competent people.
What I can say:
The melody sounds bad. It basically just repeats itself the whole song with minor changes. And the synth used to generate it is very cheesy and just doesn't sound right or good.
I don't have a great ear for picking out parts of music, but the bass is really boring and sounds like it's closely following the melody. It should not do that and probably do the opposite. It might not be doing that though, as I'm not good at judging those things. Check out http://www.secretsofsongwriting.com/2011/09/30/using-bass-lines-to-craft-a-better-song-melody/
Yeah but you'd probably go to a real forum or community full of talented and competent people to debate it, not /g/.
You have the obvious, you can't use FL Studio project files with Ableton (file extensions aren't the same)
But you also have the issue of ASIO and non-ASIO created outputs. ASIO produces outputs that are bit-perfect, meaning that are numerically identical to the input (for midis and for live recording), which can then give a more accurate sound for when you start using those recordings in a track. non-ASIO created outputs typically aren't bit perfect and cut off some of the information.
Because the differences of these outputs, using a specific effect or plug in will net a different result when used on an ASIO version of a DAW versus a non-ASIO version of a DAW. Something like a phlanger effect will sound different on the high or low end in a separate DAW, because the audio used as the source loop or track has different information. This is why you don't mix and match DAWs, because you want things to stay consistent while mixing.
This highlights the difference between indie and professional sound/music producing, at least on the Windows platform. This shit doesn't exist on Mac.
>not understanding the basic principle
>not understanding that because there's all of these different protocols, the lack of standardization is a fucking mess and it makes producing music on Windows a fucking mess
>you can still do it
>but you're going to have a much harder time
wow, didn't knew bach was then a hack.
this must mean it's shit.
posting music I enjoy:
as you can see I could listen pretty much any genre and will enjoy a song as long as the song has a memorable melody.
bro, this is memorable as fuck.
>You have the obvious, you can't use FL Studio project files with Ableton (file extensions aren't the same)
In those cases you usually bounce audio to wav and exchange that, along with midi files, synth patches, etc.
The other issues are nearly imperceptible, and are almost never actually an issue, since when producers collaborate in person, they usually use one computer on which they both work on the song, and maybe other computers to try ideas individually, etc. but the actual work on the track is made by a single computer, so there incompatibilities are a really rare scenario anyway.
Preferring music because you can identify the melody easily is a completely opinionated viewpoint. Some people like complexity, some people like simplicity.
If you're trying to make music, you need a fundamental understanding of the complex to understand what you can and need to do to make something simple.
If you want to make EDM that is simple and sounds good? Learn how everything works, learn how people have made other songs in other "eras" of music, and then apply it to your own work. This way you can consistently make earworms instead of making one earworm song after dozens of shitty ones.
Never said that memorable melodies are cheesy pop. I was talking about the Lady Gaga song you mentioned.
Any genere and any complexity level can have memorable melodies. It obviously doesn't mean the song is shit. It just means it's very simple to appreciate.
It's wrong to have a strong opinion over what I enjoy in music?
I just love melody and the emotional impact of it.
don't give a fuck if it's bounc3 shit or bach.
he implied that cheesy catchy melodies is the mark of an amateur.
>my favorite collaborating producers do it one way
>everyone must do it the exact same way
Let's make something perfectly clear, now that things are digital, music production has become streamlined so that if there is a collaboration between thousands of different sound engineers and music composers, everyone is working on their own personal station. Work isn't a 9-5 job, it's an around the clock thing.
Don't try to tell me that two producers are only ever going to work on one computer, when you can get a team of hundreds working on hundreds of their personal computers on something for a film's sound.
Fair enough, sorry. I was talking about all sessions of producers of normal songs I've seen in videos, pictures, television, etc.
Other industries might be different for obvious reasons.
Also you need to be less angry Anon. We're having a regular discussion and you're being very aggressive for no reason and it makes you look like an angsty teenager.
That sums up the whole thread.
Or buy a cheap piano keyboard and follow Youtube tutorials. Honestly, if you're unable to learn the piano from the thousands of Internet guides, videos, and cheatsheets out there, with a piano in front of you, you're probably not cut out to play or make music anyway. Spending money on a teacher seems like a waste.
its like you didn't even read my post faggot
I literally said that except instead of youtube a music theory book
having a teacher is great too because they teach you proper technique for playing and youre less likely to develop bad techniques
Assuming things are done a particular way because you've seen it is a huge fallacy.
The industry has milked the "you can do it" thing way too far to the point where people actually detriment from that attitude. Newbies that start out get fired because they make these fallacies and assumptions.
There are three paths in every field of work; the hobbyist (homebrew and otherwise unheard of), the faker (who does just enough to make it look like it's professional when it's really just a clusterfuck), and the professional (you do it by the book because you've got standards, and you want to futureproof everything)
I did the same thing with guitar and it did take fucking forever to feel comfortable playing the right way
I was basically 13 and wanted to "shred" kek and skip all the important shit
>Assuming things are done a particular way because you've seen it is a huge fallacy.
Well, it's not like I start believing that everything I see is actually the opposite of normality.
This doesn't make sense.
If I constantly see something, then I'm going to assume it's normality and not that I'm just incredibly unlucky and I've only seen a lot of a rare occurrence by luck.
>The industry has milked the "you can do it" thing way too far to the point where people actually detriment from that attitude. Newbies that start out get fired because they make these fallacies and assumptions.
So I've been lied to?
All those videos, social media posta, and everything are actually a small part of what secretly happens in real life?
>There are three paths in every field of work; the hobbyist (homebrew and otherwise unheard of), the faker (who does just enough to make it look like it's professional when it's really just a clusterfuck), and the professional (you do it by the book because you've got standards, and you want to futureproof everything)
Since we were talking about macbooks used in live performances in the first pace I thought the whole discussion revolved about those kinds of electronic musicians, who as far as I know are mostly in your "faker" category, since they're basically bedroom producers who get popular and start working in big studios and such.
Maybe you started thinking about other parts of the music industry, but the conversation wasn't about that from the beginning.