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Memes aside, what do you guys really think...
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You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology

Thread replies: 53
Thread images: 4
Memes aside, what do you guys really think of Zen and Polaris?
>>
current amd cpu 8370 is rougly equal to a 4670k i5.
intel 6700k is about 20% faster than both of those
Zen is supposed to be 40% faster than those.

Polaris is 14nm where pascal is 16nm, they will either be very similar or amd will beat intel because of being on a more effeciant node.

Also what people forget is that consoles running amd system will be easier to optimize the ports for amd pc setup. especially when dx12 fully kicks in.
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>>52674911
By the time Zen is out, Kaby Lake will be out, too.
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>>52674688
Polaris will be fucking awesome, Zen might be okay
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>>52674688
I'll start thinking about them when they're out and I can see some benchmarks
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>>52674911
>current amd cpu 8370 is rougly equal to a 4670k i5

Nope. Remember that AMD CPU is an EIGHT CORE CPU just barley equal to the i5 and thats in multi-threaded apps.

Blade and soul MMO runs like shit on AMD since its single threaded. Fucking entry level intel laptops run it better. Pathetic.

Single core performance? Well..... even if AMD does get a 40% improvement they'll still be behind lol.....
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>>52675453
we already know they're behind. their first 14nm is coming out all of the way in like october IF they're on time while skylake already came out last year. intel will have their second gen 14nm out by the time amd finally shits out their 14nm.
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>>52674911
you clearly know nothing
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>>52674688
they're cute names.
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>>52674688
Zen based chips will be a major source of revenue for AMD. The enterprise market with Opterons and big package APUs, then the consumer market with the Raven Ridge APU.
GPU sales are harder to gauge.

>>52675503
Broadwell Core M went into production sometime in early 2014, and were on the market by the end of year. Skylake is their 2nd arch produced on their 14nm process.
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>>52675453
>8 core
more like quad-core with HT
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>>52675633
>I have no idea what hyperthreading is
Get out
>>
FX 10970 Octa core 8Ghz and 800w and i3 still better lmao.
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>>52675656
cores are better than hyperthreading, protip
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>>52675656
>'core' definition.
at least intel has the decency to call it hyperthreading instead of a core.
>>
Since Zen will be SMT, what do they mean by making an 8 core cpu? Will it have 8 physical cores and 16 threads? Or 4 physical cores and 8 threads?

Did they ever say anything about how they have implemented SMT?


Also I am not to enthusiastic about polaris. I want it to be awesome but AMD is rather quiet about polaris' actual performance and rather talks about efficiency all the time. Kinda makes me nervous.
>>
>>52675971
Stop before you dig an even deeper hole.
Hyperthreading tags ops with registers and simulates another thread on an unoccupied ALU. AMD's Bulldozer family uses separate hardware integer cores.
Hyperthreading is a marketing name for intel's specific implementation of SMT. AMD's current chips are CMT, not SMT. They are not even remotely the same.
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>>52675972
SMT only has one meaning.

Summit Ridge is an 8 core 16 thread design.
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>>52676039
...AKA AMD is just copying intel at this point
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>>52675972
Polaris will probably be fine unless there's some huge fuck up in the fab or a lack of rops which is standard radeon trouble. But it will just be GCN on a new node, gcn3 made some decent strides with power usage (not as much as maxwell), so expect around 2x performance for the same amount of silicon. It'll go toe to toe with pascal most likely.
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>>52676128
Polaris is 4th generation GCN.
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>>52675401
/thread
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>>52674688
it's going to be good

but then again, the 300 and FX series are also good and everyone on /g/ is a total wintelvidia whore so no-one will care.
>>
Will amd's gpu drivers be good enough when polaris comes out for their gpu's to be somewhat close to nvidia's in performance, on linux? I heard they were currently terrible. I read a bit about AMDGPU making open sauce only drivers for their new cards, but I don't know if that will result in decent performance gains.
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>>52674911
You do know that console drivers/apis and pc drivers/apis are completely unrelated right? Dx12 won't make porting from console any easier, maybe even harder in the start, because it'll be new developers. Seeing as so many games are first made for consoles is already a sign that game companies are massive cunts, so I don't expect any improvements in terms of optimisation.
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>>52674688
My guess:

Zen will reach somewhere between 70 and 90% of Kaby's IPC with slightly higher power drawings, their top chip will be sold at slightly lower price points to Intel's offering, with a slightly debunked runner-up being significantly cheaper and serving as a budget option for enthusiasts. Competitive mid-tier offerings. AMD will finally be an option again, but they're not going to trump Intel.

On the other hand, their Excavator APUs might suffer from a potential success of Zen.

I doubt that Polaris will end up worse than where AMD is now, respectively to GCN vs Maxwell. At a best case scenario, it's going to beat Pascal on slight margins. Nvidia's likely not gonna do any experiments, but neither will AMD.

>>52675332
Doesn't matter much, as Kaby is going to be 14nm, so likely your usual 5-10%.

>>52675453
Predicted 40% on Excavator, you fucks on /g/ still cannot comprehend it and measure on Piledriver.

>>52676078

You imply this as a negative. AMD doesn't have the funds to do any experiments themselves.
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>>52674688
Vaporware
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>>52676039
Learn to read please, it's a definition.
A core operates at index 1 regardless of brand, hyperthreading operates at index 0.23, AMDs additional cores operates at index 0.5.
When you buy an Intel 8 core cpu you get an 8 core with hyperthreading. When you buy an AMD 8 core cpu you get a 4 core cpu with 4 semi cores.
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>>52675827
AMD uses fake cores tho.
>>
x86 is shit and should die already.
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>>52674688
Zen has potential to be interesting if they hit 'close' to Intel IPC but sell a CPU with more cores. An 8C/16T or even 6C/12T Zen CPU that OC's decently at the typical mainstream unlocked i7 price point could be a very compelling option.

As for Polaris, as a 290X CF owner I have essentially lost all trust and hope for AMD drivers. It could very well be very nice hardware, but I'm nearly certain that software support will be crap, both from AMD's side (especially in DX11 which is going to be quite relevant for a few years still) and from game devs' side (since almost all of them seem to deeply enjoy getting spitroasted by NVIDIA).
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>>52676408
Its nothing but desperation pulled from your ass in order to safe face.
Multicore scaling for the BD family is north of 80%.
Stop posting, you tech illiterate retard.
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>>52674911
Console and PC APIs aren't the same. Also, by the time DX12 fully kicks in Polaris will be old news and another 1 or 2 graphics card gens would have gone by.
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>>52676446
nice buzzwords educate yourself.
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>>52676443
Summit Ridge isn't competing against mainstream i5s and i7s. They're competing against the i7E line, Summit Ridge is HEDT not mainstream.
The chips aren't going to clock high without TDP making significant jumps unless you're dealing with a binned quad core part.
>>
zen is our only hope.

>>52676443
>if they hit 'close' to Intel IPC
They aren't gonna be very close, maybe sandy or ivy level ipc.

>even 6C/12T Zen CPU that OC's decently at the typical mainstream unlocked i7 price point could be a very compelling option

Note really, it needs to be 6c/15t for the cheap i5 price and 8c/16t for the high end i5 price. They need to have 12c-s to compete with higher i7s. Otherwise they are gonna suck.
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>Totally
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>>52674911
>Also what people forget is that consoles running amd system will be easier to optimize the ports for amd pc setup.
>MGSV was designed for mainly the PS4 console
>PC port uses NVIDIA GameWorks
Yeah no, people will only switch their rendering engines to use bullshit over-tesselaters for money.
>>
now that the dust is settled, which is objectively the best used intel cpu that is cheaper and better performing than anything AMD releases ?
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I really hope that AMD starts closing the IPC performance gap with Zen but I'm afraid they won't and they'll just fall further behind. We need some good competition in the CPU market. atm the only thing AMD has going for it is low prices.
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>>52676590
Oh yeah, obviously. Zen is going to have the exact same IPC as Excavator, there won't be any performance uplift at all.
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>>52676147
I know and the 3rd generation already mode some decent improvements in general, even if it was by getting rid of fp64 though.
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>>52676614
Here is your reply?
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>>52677061
The post was satire at best.
Honestly if you didn't pick up on the sarcasm, I worry for you.
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>>52677090
Sorry, the influx of autism on /g/ recently makes it really difficult to figure out baits. :^)
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>>52677156
It was the perfect response to a horribly stupid post. There might be something wrong with you.
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>>52677156
In any other circumstance I would completely agree with you.

Let's just write this one down as a one-off and act like it never happened. For your own sake.
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>>52676463
It doesn't matter that the API differs. What matters is that similar optimizations have similar effects on both platforms (i.e. some optimizations can actually harm performance on one setup and not the other, another optimization can have virtually on effect on one platform and provide a significant performance boost on the other, and so on).
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>>52676428
No, they're real cores. It's just a frivolous lawsuit that pretends otherwise (and got BTFO completely).
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>>52677280
Yet that is not happening currently, precisely because of API differences (DX11) and some design differences as well. APIs may get more similar, but the design differences will remain, most notably the fact that the CPU and GPU do not share the same physical memory on PCs.

Currently AMD is often struggling to provide good performance in a lot of console ports, while NVIDIA is often ahead. Their drivers are frequently late and subpar, be it because of DX11 overhead, Gameworks, insufficient resources or even incompetence, AMD isn't reaping any benefits on the PC front because of the console hardware.
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>>52677377
That's because of the likes of gameworks and nvidia-aligned cross-platform engines.
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>>52677421
The post I initially quoted said that AMD having the consoles means easier/better optimization for AMD on PC. But that does not happen, it is not a real thing. It doesn't even matter why, it's not something that you as a person who would buy an AMD card can benefit from. It's not real.

Theoretical possibilities aren't practical advantages.
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>>52675453
Each module (there are 4 of them in the 8350 and 8370) has two cores. The two cores in each module share the same L1 and L2 cache with the entire module. Windows registers it as 8 core, yes, but it's really only 4 cores.

The same goes for every AMD FX chip. The quad cores has two modules with two threads per module. The two threads in each module share the same L1 and L2 cache pool.

The 6 core AMD FX chips have three modules, with two threads per module; again, each module sharing the same L1 and L2 cache pool between both threads in each module.

Also, you need to quit talking out of your ass. I have an AMD Phenom II X4 965 and I run Blade and Soul just fine with no stuttering at silky smooth frame rates. I didn't have my frame rate counter on, but I know it didn't drop anywhere below 45 FPS, and that's with a fairly old GeForce GTX 670.

The Core i5 only thrashes the AMD FX chips on certain games. Some games it's the other way around, with the AMD FX 8350 taking chips such as the Intel Corei-i5 to school, but you never hear any talk about that. Fanboys only want it known when Intel dominates. That being said, there is only about a 20% difference between an FX-8350 and a Core i7-4790k. To say AMD would still be behind if they get a 40% improvement is just talking out of your ass.

AMD went with a new microarchitecture with the AMD FX (and APUs) chips and it didn't succeed as well as they hoped for. Now they're going back to a traditional multi core architecture and I can guarantee you things are going to be a lot different with the AMD Zen. Unless you of course are forgetting that AMD is going back to their roots with the Zen processor.

Also, do not forget 2001 where Intel struggled to keep up with AMD. http://www.anandtech.com/show/835/11
Thread replies: 53
Thread images: 4
Thread DB ID: 476135



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