>>52604198 >including the pointless remake and the horrible series with the first one >fucking every-character-is-a-walking-stereotype-but-in-a-minority-report-setting Pass
Watch GitS uno and play Shadowrun Dragonfall if you need a quick cyberpunk fix. Somehow, there aren't many good films with a nice cyberpunk setting, they're usually just "technology!" and include nothing of other themes.
>>52610439 Snow Crash was interesting, and I'd say it fell just a few inches shy of being too descriptive in technical details. Being too specific is what the Blue Ant trilogy did to a fault, and thus aged rather horribly.
Neuromancer is timeless in a sense that it tries to describe the experience and implications of the technology, rather than the technology itself. Replace the almost-fantastical description of what it's like to dive into the net with any modern near-future equivalent (jacking in Matrix style, beaming in like in Tron, etc) and you still have a very vibrant work that isn't too ugly to glance at.
>>52611227 I found the prose in Neuromancer to be too disjointed. I get that it's because the narrator is a fucking junkie who's high on some kind of drug all the time, but it gets really annoying to read.
This fucking movie. In hindsight, I daresay it's pretty damn cyberpunk as hell.
It takes place in near-future with all of the present day moral conflicts intact. There's technology everywhere, from fully automated as-seen-on-brochures houses to full blown androids. But the world outside of the tiny, bubble is grimy and dark both physically and morally.
>>52610758 It's written like it's for 12 year olds but full of 80's references they wouldn't get. No real audience but very slow 30-40 year olds. At least that was my take on it when I was forced to read it for my freshman year of college
What the fuck am I even reading right now. That shit is about a centuries-old galactic empires on some far-flung, made up planets. It is literally the exact opposite of everything that makes up the cyberpunk genre.
Quick reminder that Blade Runner and Akira are not cyberpunk. They're both excellent and have a similar aesthetic to cyberpunk, but they are not cyberpunk. Blade Runner is tech-noir and Akira is dystopian science fiction.
>>52617210 Buddy, Blade Runner is one of my favourite films but that doesn't make it cyberpunk. I'll explain why below.
>>52617233 Put simply, it doesn't have any "cyber." A very important element of cyberpunk is the oppressive society dominated by computer technology. Artificial intelligence, cybernetics, computers, the internet (cyberspace). The Replicants in Blade Runner are bioengineered, they are not androids and they do not posses artificial intelligence. All the artificial animals like Dr. Tyrell's owl are bioengineered "clones" as well.
It's near future tech-noir with a grimy low life setting. It's got "punk", but it doesn't have any "cyber." To say that Blade Runner wasn't a huge inspiration for the cyberpunk genre would be a flat out lie, but in and of itself Blade Runner is not cyberpunk.
Funnily enough though, Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sleep is quintessential cyberpunk novel. Even if the genre didn't exist when it was written.
>>52617364 Yeah, it's actually a bit of a plothole. Maybe. The film explicitly defines the Replicants as "A genetically engineered creature composed entirely of organic substance." And Ridley Scott has gone on record and said they are entirely biological in nature.
Whereas the andys in Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep were more like cyborgs. Or Terminators. They have biological parts, but are also mechanical.
>"Roy Batty was an evolved... He wasn't an engine. If I cut him open, there wasn't metal, he was grown... and then within twenty years you get the first bill not passed in the Senate where they applied for replication of animals, sheep and goats and cattle and animals and they turned it down, but if you can do that, then you can do human beings. If you go deeper into it and say 'Yeah, but if you are going to grow a human being, does he start that big and I've got to see him through everything?' I don't want to answer the question, because of course he does... Ash in Alien had nothing to do with Roy Batty, because Roy Batty is more humanoid, whereas Ash was more metal." Quote from Ridley Scott.
It's weird, but Blade Runner in and of itself does not contain the elements that make something like Neuromancer or Ghost in the Shell "cyberpunk", even if it's source material does.
It has the aesthetic, but that's about it. And even then that's largely because cyberpunk borrows a lot of it's aesthetic from Blade Runner.
>>52617510 I'll add that some people like to call Blade Runner "proto-cyberpunk". Among other things like Asimov's Robot series, Naked Lunch, and other Philip K. Dick novels.
The word "cyber", and the genre cyberpunk itself, was born from Gibson's Neuromancer. And the proto-cyberpunk is essentially works of science fiction that predate the genre, but served as influences and stepping stones towards it.
>>52617350 I believe you're mixing up cybernetics with the cybernetics of computer science. This is an easy mistake, due to the ambiguous 'cyber-' prefix that gets prefixed to many fields of studies within computer science. But mind you, cybernetics is much larger than computer science.
Cybernetics is the study of systems by means of technology. Systems, whether they be mechanical, biological, computerised, sociological, psychological, you name it. Systems, each within their own discipline, can all be studied by the use of technology. Sadly, the media tries to link it all to mainly computer science fields.
>>52617755 I wouldn't call windup girl cyberpunk, it's imo biopunk, granted blade runner is way more cyberpunk but I genuinely think that cyber perhaps refers more to a computer based technocratic dystopia, which I believe blade runner is.
>>52617755 >>52617745 >>52617510 You're not supposed to take the name literally. Cyberpunk does not mean "punks and cyberstuff". There's a guy who claims it comes from a title of a short story he wrote but no one ever cites him
Cyberpunk is not a genre as much as a cateogry of settings characterized by social wealth inequality, social degeneracy, and ubiquitous high-technology. You can call that the punk and the cyber if you want to, but cyberpunk does not necessarily imply a focus on criminal low-lives and computer-tech
>>52617755 I'll admit, my usage of the word is distorted by Ghost in the Shell using it to describe prosthetic and mechanical bodies.
Nevertheless, the mechanical-electrical part of cybernetics can't be ignored. It's a very important half of cybernetics. The Replicants in Blade Runner however have more to do with biology than cybernetics, they're grown not built. The film doesn't go in depth into the workings of a Replicant and their origins, so it's difficult to say what extend the "design process" is. Are they psycholigcally programmed from scratch, or are they imprinted/brain washed shortly after birth? Who knows.
The common misuse of cybernetics to refer only to computer science probably comes from Neuromancer popularizing the word and coining the term "cyberspace" in the early 80s which would later become a household term for the internet.
>>52617926 That's way too narrow compared to what cybernetics is, which is where the the 'cyber-' prefix stems from. However, this seems to be what most people seem to favour due to the media.
>>52617932 >>>52617755 (You) I'm not claiming 'cyberpunk' equals 'punks and cyberstuff'. I'm discussing the etymology of cybernetics, which is much bigger.
>>52617942 >Nevertheless, the mechanical-electrical part of cybernetics can't be ignored. It's a very important half of cybernetics. Of course it can't be ignored, but keep in mind cybernetics is larger than just mechanical and electrical engineering. But I think we already agree on this.
>The common misuse of cybernetics to refer only to computer science probably comes from Neuromancer popularizing the word and coining the term "cyberspace" in the early 80s which would later become a household term for the internet. Yes, this is one such example the common misuse of cybernetics can be attributed to.
>>52619969 Psycho Piss had a really cool premise and world, but they fucked everything up. Akane's retardation infuriates me to no end.
>Hurr I can change Sybil! >Oh shit Subil has been orchestrating some nefarious plots in foreign countries so it can spread it's power >Better do absolutely nothing useful and tell Kogami that he should turn himself in so he can be executed
>>52620937 >>52621121 What makes cyberpunk special compared to other types of fantasy/science fiction, is how real it feels. Ghost in the Shell (1995) takes place 11 years from now. Where Lord of the Rings and Legend of the Galactic Heroes take place in a world I could never hope to see, Neuromancer feels like it's only a couple decades off.
Hell, in the 90s people thought cyberpunk was here already. Just look at Mondo 2000, that magazine was cyberpunk as fuck.
>>52617350 So what ? "Neon-punk" ? "Skycrapper-punk" ? "Noir-punk" ? That's bullshit: In the years that this movie was created no-one would have say that Personnal-Computers would be so democratized like it is now.
>>52622251 >In the years that this movie was created no-one would have say that Personnal-Computers would be so democratized like it is now. Perhaps you should look at when Neuromancer was written, then? Or Burning Chrome? Or maybe just put any thought into what you're saying? If people didn't think computers were going anywhere in the fucking 80s, we wouldn't be where we were today. I mean Christ, computers weren't invented in the 90s.
Anyway, since you didn't actually read my post I'll reiterate. It's tech-noir, but more broadly Blade Runner is dystopian science-fiction.
Blade Runner helped shape cyberpunk's aesthetic, but it was not cyberpunk itself.
>>52622329 >muh cumpootahs >reviewing security footage and suspects dossiers on a computer >computers in the dashboards of cars >using a computer to test for human responses >one of the main characters is an autist who programs robots in his spare time
You know what other seminal cyberpunk work also didn't have a computer in every scene? Neuromancer
>>52622836 I love Blame and the rest of Nihei's works, but Blame is set a bit too far forward in my opinion. The book which he drew some of his inspiration from was also set too far forward (The Galactic Center Saga) to really be considered cyberpunk as well.
Back a few years ago when cyberpunk general was a recurring thread on /g/ I found a link to a very interesting essay about something the author called "the matrix". When entities (governments, corporations, even NGOs and charities) stop existing for their original purpose but only exist because it is in their "programming" to exist simply for the sake of it. Examples would be the way companies are legally bound to maximize shareholder profit at any cost after they become publically traded, or how Greenpeace isn't about rational environmental protection, bur rather making anything they can into an ideological enemy in an attempt to stay relevant. They become machines whose purpose is self-perpetuation rather than whatever the original purpose was
Another /g/-related example is Mozilla blatantly trying to out-Chrome Chrome for dem user numbers and fucking up everything FF was loved for
>>52607968 Man I used to love GITS:SAC, but after watching the original film it doesn't even come close for me! The world design, cinematography and art/animation is on another level. Modern shit doesn't come close
>>52624945 holy fuck is that Düsseldorf? I'm a Brit who worked there for a while. I would go down to the river bank, along this path, and do cardio every day by kicking a football against the wall up one of these ramps under a bridge. it would come rolling back down, and i used to try to keep it going for as long as possible, deliberately kicking it to the side to make it harder to change. i used a specific ramp as it was the widest and cleanest, and the one in this video looks eerily similar.
>>52626019 The artist for the posters is actually some guy named Martin Ansin.
I dont know a damn thing about him other than that he supposedly said he'd release non foil ones. But I read that on red its while googling and searching my heart out for a non-signed, non-foil variant.
>>52618138 Romantic novels also shouldn't mean books with kissy bits and turgid members, but it does.
Are you arguing that the genre misrepresents its etymology? Cause that's dumb and not how language works. A sophomore is a wise fool in the greek, but it really means that someone's in their second year of a four year schooling.
>>52623854 Reminds me of the Feds in Snow Crash since I've been reading it lately.
The US government no longer exists in any form beyond the purpose of information brokerage, a-la nsa. They try so hard to keep up appearances and the illusion of integrity and service to the country despite the fact that they've downsized their facilities to a single office park and sold off washington into being a private tourist attraction.
>>52624111 The intro is utterly trash. Not even funny enough to be satire, really, but it gets better. He loses the job immediately due to the incompetence of fast food employees and their adherence to the all-holy three-ringed-binders of franchising.
Basically turns into cyberpunk dan brown after a while. Make of that what you will.
Still better than Gravity's Rainbow, aka Farts: The Novel.
>>52624230 I'm the anon who said it was better and more fun. The 'more fun' is more about it being playful (the protagonist being named Hiro Protagonist, the rat-thing dog heaven allusions, etc). I enjoyed that stuff, but I say it's better because Gibson's language and pacing is clunky as all get at, not because Snow Crash is more fun. They are two separate thoughts.
Also, this has turned into a pretty damn good thread. Every now and then /g/ pleasantly surprises me.
Am I the only one who loves New Rose Motel? The other Sprawl short stories get more acclaim, being about hackers and low-life gangsters, but I love New Rose Motel for showing the mercenary/corporate side of Cyberpunk that is often overlooked
>MJ12 was originally founded as a SIGINT agency serving the illuminati in the 20th century >the illuminati itself was lead by powerful members of the elite of 20th century capitalist society. some were public politicians and businessmen. others were less public >during the cyber bloom of the early 21st century, the old men had grown lazy and lost their edge. they didn't realize the importance of the internet and relating technologies >this resulted in bob page, current leader of MJ12, to grow increasingly more powerful and increasingly more frustrated with the incompetence/inaction of his peers >in the end he staged a coup. MJ12 ousted the illuminati and took over its assets
There you go, OP. Greatest cyberpunk backstory. Let us not get into how HR shat all over the universe, because HR is not cyberpunk
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