Previously on: >>52464630 →
A thread for all Unix-Like Operating Systems, Macfags/OSX/Apple shit excluded.
All GNU/Linux, BSD, and other Unix users are welcome.
Intended for users of all levels, including absolute beginners.
There are four ways to try Linux, you can:
1) Install a distro on a VM (Virtual Machine/VirtualBox) for "safety purposes"
2) Use the Live ISO directly without installing anything, that way, you can get a "full Linux experience".
3) Dual-boot Linux with Windows/Mac (recommended if you want to learn more about Linux)
4) Go balls deep and overwrite everything with Linux (not recommended)
Before asking, please find the answers to your questions in resources.
Please be civil, notice the "Friendly" in every Friendly Linux Thread.
Understand that much of your software from Windows will be unavailable, although maybe wine can make up for it.
man <insert command here>
your friendly neighborhood search engine
What is Linux (or GNU/Linux, whatever)?
Babby's First Linux (What distro to choose?)
What software does /g/ recommend? (Please DON'T include the so called infographic [it's reddit-tier] -- refer all your recommended software here.)
Ricing on Linux (Make it good and functional or make it worse/puke-inducing like those at desktop threads)
A script designed to ease the transition from Windows to Debian
Check out this page for any updates on the OP
IRC No one uses:
That's basically what I was getting at, and why I posted it here instead of an Apple thread.
Which linux DE has the best potential aesthetically? Or a better question, which produces better results more often (because those with the most potential tend to have the worst results, they are used mostly by enthusiasts who have no aesthetic sense).
Did anyone here successfully create a bootable USB stick for open suse? I downloaded the ISO from opensuse.org (4.7gb) and put it on my USB stick
1) via unetbootin which didn't work. No idea why. I only saw
In the boot options
2) via sudo dd. Which actually worked but as soon as I clicked on installation it only said that the installation medium is missing.
Am I retarted? The second option worked flawlessly with Ubuntu 14.04.3 LTS
I'm on Ubuntu GNOME currently (14.04)
According to the /g/ ricing wiki page KDE (now called Plasma 5 instead of kde5) and Enlightenment are the best out of the box eye candy.
Gnome also looks nice imo.
The desktop threads mostly have tiling managers only from what I've seen though.
Why can't I add new cursors on Mint? I added the folder in /.icons but when selecting it, it won't change.
So, I'm using urxvt, and I randomly pressed Alt+L, which executed "ls".
I did the same thing in xterm, and I got gibberish, so I'm leaning towards this being a urxvt thing and not related to either bash or zsh (the latter of which I'm using).
However, for the life of me, I can't find any documentation saying that, by default, Alt+L does this. Nothing from urxvt, nothing from zsh or bash (which both say that Alt+L should make text lowercase). Obviously, I can play around with keyboard combinations in urxvt to figure out what does what, but it'd be nice if there were a list somewhere...
Hello Mates, Linux-Beginner here looking for some help.
I recently installed LinuxMint alongside Windows 8 on my machine. Windows is sitting on the SSD (which is /dev/sda), and the Linux Partitions root, swap and home are on a HDD (/dev/sdb/). I installed the bootloader on /dev/sda, which has been a mistake, because if i don't tell BIOS to boot from the SSD, the computer enters GRUB rescue mode (only when I last used Linux though, seems like Windows overwrites some boot files).
So my Question is: How do i reinstall GRUB and where do I place it?
When I was on Windows I used to ProTeX distribution to dowload MikeTeX and TeXStudio.
I liked TeXStudio because it had a retard proof compile button and it helped me with TeX syntax in addition to automatically downloading any packages I needed (though I rarely need new ones). It's biggest downside for me was it's bloated interface.
TeXstudio seems to be available for Arch. However, I was wondering if anyone knows any good alternatives. What do you guys use?
Trying to play Dragon's Dogma on Linux.
The torrented version worked, but I wanted to pay for it.
Steam wouldn't let me install the game, so I used steamCMD to do it manually.
Wine threw a couple of errors, so I installed lib32-mpg123, samba, and some other 32bit library.
Now when I dowine .local/share/Steam/DDDA.exe
I get no errors, but the app just doesn't run.
What do I do? Using Arch, by the way.
to the drive you want to boot from, i would use the ssd. type lsblk to see which partition is on which device and then use the one you want after the command they tell you in the manual.
I put LinuxMint on this laptop I had laying around. It's working find except for the trackpad is making it really hard to type on. I looked at the options for it and I don't see any for any sort of 'palm detection' or a way to disable it while typing.
Is there something I can download to make it not suck as much?
I share my 1TB HDD with Windows and GNU/Linux (both on a SSD). No problems so far, using it to store Movies and Steam games (in seperate folders for each plattform).
Just don't forget to install NTFS 3G (if it's not included in your distro i. e. Arch), or you'll be wondering, why you can't write to NTFS partitions.
>They told me I would only need 100 GB for my root partition.
>They forgot to tell me Arch installs literally everything in that partition.
>2 days in I'm only halfway done installing all the tools I need for work and I'm already on 20% used.
Now that I've fallen for this troll is there anyway to fix it without deleting everything? Can I just use dd to get more space or will it destroy everything?
You forgot one of the alt options many of us use
5) Keep your desktop computer as windows/mac for proprietary software/gaming use, buy a thinkpad and go balls deep with it
Windows desktop and Linux laptop is a great alternative to dualbooting for anyone with a few hundred bux to spare.
Pic related is my old battlestation from 2014 with my linux mint thinkpad in the middle. I have since moved things around to be better, but you get the idea. Good method for someone who doesn't want to potentially ruin anything on their main pc.
Depends on what you do for work. I'm a CGI freelancer and must have access to Zbrush, which needs a good desktop GPU to run properly. Trying to do /3/ related work on a laptop is aids.
I'm on Antergos and I think I've made my computer all unorganized trying to virtualize stuff to use FL Studio and play more Steam games.
Should I just wipe and do a clean install of windows 7 and then Antergos? I've followed every guide I could find on installing FL 10/12 and it doesn't work, and I've tried to install some apps directly through playonlinux and they also don't work/start.
Things like TeXlive alone take like 1GB. Python2+3 with zero shit added other than scipy is another 1GB for me.
What do you use your OS for? Making dank minimalist dektop pics or do you only develop in a few light install langauges or something?
>Python2+3 with zero shit added other than scipy is another 1GB for me.
>What do you use your OS for?
...Stuff? Web browsing, video watching, music listening, program editing, sometimes gaming with WINE, torrenting.
Rougly 80% of the academic world is still using Python 2.7 and refuses to port to 3, so everyone has to use to collaborate basically.
I have no idea what will happen when support ends in 2020. Probably rebellion.
Hey, I just moved to Debian from Ubuntu, and I can't seem to find any packages in aptitude. Like, even with firefox, it says package not found. I triedapt-get updatebut it didn't do anything. Any help?
unless you've enabled nonfree repos then anything proprietery, closed source or even just trademarked/copyrighted will be unavailable. it's retarded but that's what they call freedom
I've heard that you can customize almost any distro, so what are the real differences between them then?
Excluding ease of install and preinstalled software, what attributes should I be comparing the distros with? All I can think of is package managers.
no it's retarded to use an inferior program over a superior one because of ideology
I'm not sayin all closed source is better than open source but use the best fucking tool for the job man, and if you're that paranoid just decompile the program and read the source, not that you'd understand it
>just decompile the program and read the source
Maybe you should try knowing at least a bit about what you're talking about before you advocate a side in a controversial issue.
Communities also function as tech support and resources for past answers. You might not need it, but it's nice when it's there and relevant to you.
Also, distros might have certain preferences for some things: where config files are stored, how man pages are set up, etc. Things like init systems might also be of interest. Whether the distro is rolling-release or point-release might matter, along with whether there's long-term support for a system that doesn't jump on feature-upgrades.
Thanks. What distro doesn't use systemd these days anyway? The stable vs rolling release is another great point though, looks like the major difference between distros is just how they deal with getting you software.
I'm convinced that you're not even a programmer, or if you are, all you know is either Java or Python.
Today I issued usermod -l <newuser> <olduser> to rename my account, and then changed the home directory. I chown'ed -R name:group my home directory, and now pulseaudio keeps shitting the bed. Only ONE program can generate audio now, and unloading the module-something-cork does not fix the problem.
you'll have hard time filling 100G for everything besides /home, unless you install lots of games or something (not including steam games, steam installs games under /home)
yes, you can move/resize partitions if need be, though it's recommended to backup beforehand (if something goes wrong the volume will probably be fucked, you'd need to be pretty unlucky though)
so I want to be able to use my x220t as a tablet more and want to remap one of the buttons on the screen bezel to open gnome's caribou on screen keyboard, but I don't know the command to open caribou... anyone able to help me out?
>Have a look at the config of pulseaudio.
Nothing's changed... I deleted the dotfile and a new one has since been generated. It still doesn't work.
>Changing a username with Linux is bad practice.
Yup, I am aware of that now. It shouldn't be the case though.
You're telling me games are installed in /root too? What the fuck? I don't play games, but people should be recommending at least 1TB on the root partition.
I'll backup and resize, thanks.
you can only dissassemble a binary (all you get with closed source programs), this is not remotely the same thing as source code, you can make small changed if you know the binaries' target architecture well and can figure out where and what to change, which is no easy feat without debug symbols (typically stripped out) or comments (only exist in the source)
i'm not even a programmer and i understand how silly that is
1. does running the game like this work in windows? keep in mind the steam version likely has steam integration and/or copy protection intact, which may not exist in the pirated copy (pirated copies are often easier to use with wine, as many copy protection systems don't function properly in wine)
2. what is the output you get?
>Check in /etc/group if your old nick is not used.
Not used.uid=1000(anon) gid=1001(anon) groups=1001(anon),7(lp),10(wheel),14(uucp),18(audio),19(cdrom),27(video),80(cdrw),85(usb),100(users),35(games),440(plugdev),441(scanner),1000(guest)
1) I don't have windows, so who knows. The pirated version works, however. The copy I'm currently trying to get to work is the copy I paid for. Steam wouldn't let me download it because blah blah unsupported platform, so I used steamCMD to force it to think my platform was Windows - this version is completely integrated with steam.
2) Heh. Here you go.[pied@piper ~]$ wine .local/share/Steam/DDDA.exe
/ and /root are two different things, /root is the root users' "home" folder
games installed with your package manager typically go in /usr or /opt
you can split off potentially-large folders like /var and /opt to seperate partitions if you need to at any time
my /, not including /home, /var and /opt is about 8G, this is my main, 4 year old installation of arch (xonotic and enemy territory take ~1G of that, they're in /usr)
my /var is 14G, 9.5G of which is used by emby (a media server)
my /opt is 24G, with borderlands the pre-sequel taking 11G and shadowrun hong kong also about 11G
you can relocate individual items as well, i could move those big games elsewhere and replace them with a symlink, for example
you might have better luck running the windows version of steam in wine, and launching the game from there
if the game uses resources from steam, it might expect steam to be avaiable/running
> install grsecurity
> configure pax
> restrict mprotect kills Palemoon
> try to execute file from terminal
> says "killed"
> no verbose option
> no other data
There's gotta be some way of working this one out... Paxctl claims the executable file doesn't have any extended attributes that would be relevant.
that won't solve my sound issues, will it?
as is, the pirated version doesn't play any sound
making a dual boot solely for the purpose of the occasional game i want to play is super agitating
try cd .local/share/Steam/; wine DDA.exe
>if the game uses resources from steam, it might expect steam to be avaiable/running
This. If steam doesnt find the api files, the game usually stops at some point or doesnt start at all.
you could copy the cracked steam api dll and game executable over, but then you'll end up with exactly the same thing as the pirated version (note that this is generalized, unless you get the crack seperately you won't know exactly which files were modified in the cracked version, and it might not even be the same version/patch level of the game)
closest i've got is a partial translation of hatsune miku: project diva for psp
didn't touch any code, just swapped out text from the games' binary (as well as editing many images containing text)
I have a laptop with switchable graphics. It's an AMD APU and a dedicated ATI graphics card.
When I dosudo cat /sys/kernel/debug/vgaswitcheroo/switch
Is 'DynOff' the same as 'Off?' I ask because my laptop runs hot and the battery life sucks.
Which DE has the best power management/lowest consumption? I want to do a minimal install of Ubuntu on my laptop.
> wanted to pay for it
> pay for it
Generally if you run steam in your wineprefix you can install games to it.
try making a wineprefix, installing steam to it, and installing games normally from steam wine.
WINEPREFIX=~/.whatever WINEARCH=32 wine ~/.whatever/path/to/exe
So if I'm reading this correctly, you already have Windows installed, but want to have a VM inside of it that uses the external as its storage device? Should be easy enough with Virtualbox and Virtualbox extensions
I'm an idiot newbie.
I read http://www.linuxatemyram.com/ and it says not to worry about anything except free -/+ buffers/cache:.
However according to the ramnode graph I'm using a shitload of RAM although the bar seems to agree with linuxatemyram and free-h that I'm not actually using that much.
Who do I believe? Is it ok to increase the RAM allocation of one of the programs I'm running or will I cause something to explode?
I'm gonna need the VM on the portable drive so the host computer doesn't need it installed. This may be a problem with drivers and such though. I need to do this because I don't actually have a decent computer of my own, and instead use other computers.
You'd be better off installing your stock OS, complete with bootloader on the drive.
Then you just plug it in, restart the computer and change bios to boot from the drive.
Locked BIOS could get in the way, but as far as i know only businesses or schools use that shit.
People rarely password lock the BIOS, whereas installing a VM is gonna take ages and require admin.
I have never used a linux distro where I wasn't able to see a preview of the image I was uploading.
> not organizing your pictures folder
Gonna shamelessly re-ask this question.
>A thread for all Unix-Like Operating Systems
>Macfags/OSX/Apple shit excluded
This will change ownership, so the original user won't be able to access it. If you don't care about ANY other user accessing it, just use chmod to add read/write/optional execute to others:
sudo chmod -R o+rwX /home/arch
I could have the permissions and the directory round the wrong way, not on Gnu/Linux atm. Try this if it doesn't work:
sudo chmod -R /home/arch o+rwX
> macfags come in shilling their bullshit problems
> get called out
> thread derailed arguing about the fact that iOS and OSX are technically Unix-like OSes
It's for the good of the community. Macfags have their own threads.
I don't really have much right to judge on that front. I had something like 2500 pictures all in one folder before I decided to spend two days putting them all in specific folders.
Create a new group, arch_and_user or whatever, then chgrp recursively on /home/arch. Make sure the group permissions are the same as the user permissions, and you are good to go.
Not really, it's more annoying when you have to do it for smalls groups of people like this example.
Simply making a group so 100+ people can access the same folder is actually pretty efficient.
Because if you wanted to share a folder with dozens of people, doing on a per user basis is fucking retarded.
Even if you have the list ready, you'd have to use it every fucking time you want to add another folder to the share.
Instead, you make the group ONCE, then just use the group name if you want to add more folders to the share. Easy.
> Linux Newfag
> Fall for install Gentoo meme
> Stumble blindly through process for 12 days
> End up having to pore over tons of documentation
> learn a shitload about Linux
> finally get it to work after starting over and spending three days
Anyone else /schoolofhardknocks/ here?
Haven't heard of it, I bet it's shite. All those "linux for windows users" end up being more buggy and have a worse experience than real distributions. Use something common, like Debian or Mint or CentOS, not some tiny weird project like Zorin.
Managing the groups is still easier when you keep the list of who is in each group separate from which group can access each folder.
It may well mean you need to have "supergroups" that are nothing but combinations of smaller groups, but that's what scripts are for.
I've never heard anyone talk about managing large network environments on windows without swearing a lot.
>>52483919mikurok@mikurok-main ~ % ls -la file
-rw-r--r-- 1 mikurok mikurok 0 Jan 18 13:08 file
mikurok@mikurok-main ~ % sudo chown :users file
mikurok@mikurok-main ~ % ls -la file
-rw-r--r-- 1 mikurok users 0 Jan 18 13:08 file
For some reason I am unable to install transmission on my CentOS 7 server. I get this errorError: Package: transmission-gtk-2.13-1.el6.x86_64 (epel)
Error: Package: transmission-cli-2.13-1.el6.x86_64 (epel)
Error: Package: transmission-daemon-2.13-1.el6.x86_64 (epel)
Error: Package: transmission-common-2.13-1.el6.x86_64 (epel)
Error: Package: transmission-gtk-2.13-1.el6.x86_64 (epel)
How can I resolve the dependencies
Picking a distro because it's similar to windows is never thi right decision. And not one of those attempts at similarity have been good. Pick a "real" distro, something in the top 10 on distrowatch, if you want any hope of getting help and support from users online.
Entirely depends on the perms, if a folder's contents has been given assigned to a group, the folder itself won't necessarily be deletable by group members.
It's up to whoever is maintaining the system to keep a track of whatever shares they've setup and their locations so they can see what is or isn't being used.
In most cases, I'd guess that the same scripts used to make the shared folders could be easily modified to delete them and clear the defunct groups too.
Nobody in their right mind does this shit manually on a large scale.
Because i like the CHOICE of what software i want to install, and how it reacts with my system. If i want to use closed source to fit my needs, im going to chroot it and limit it from accessing all of my machine(something you cant do in windows)
ALL of the linux source code is constantly being audited by third parties not associated with FSF
Right, but you need those deps, so find out how centos allows you to get those deps, find them in a third party repository or compile them your self and install them ahead of transmission.
That's kinda the point about using a libre operating system, you get to choose what libre and non-libre components you use with it.
Sticking to only FOSS software is by no means bad.
But if you're only doing it because you think so much as touching a single proprietary program somehow takes away the "freeness" of every other program you use, you probably need stronger meds.
Turns out reading man pages is a valuable skill.
for referencepaxctl -c palemoon/*
no -r option so I had to manually go into every subdirectory and execute that command, substituting the folder name of course.
Then I repeated that process withpaxctl -m
Worked like a dream.
Install Grsecurity, guys. There's no downside.
> inb4 tinfoil hat
This fixes a bunch of glaring security issues that should logically have been fixed years ago in upstream Linux.
>try to install ubuntu
>the text rendering is absolutely fucked
>try to google a fix
>give up and try linux mint
>figure ubuntu-based systems are just shit, try to install linux mint debian
>entire desktop just becomes an array of red bars as if my GPU was having a stroke
>the only distro that hasn't given me any problems yet is arch
>tfw have no idea what the fuck is going on or what happened when I tried to install the other distros
is my hardware shitting itself or something
i feel like that'd be the only explanation for what I just experienced
Never heard anything like that. What exactly was wrong with the rendering in ubuntu? It's all essentially the same underneath so if you got what you wanted with arch then you most likely could get the same thing with ubuntu or mint.
> What exactly was wrong with the rendering in ubuntu?
this is what was happening.
i tried the fixes in (http://askubuntu.com/questions/584922/how-do-i-fix-fonts-not-rendering-and-missing-letters) but I was getting this problem in the fucking installation media so i couldn't do much. I even thought it was a problem with my USB stick I was using to install it with so I tried a different one but to no avail.
genuinely have no idea what went wrong
>Install Grsecurity, guys. There's no downside.
yeah, except time invested in getting it working
Honestly, is there any point to investing heavily into security on desktop Linux (especially when you're not doing server or SSH related stuff)? Or, perhaps as a better question, is there a method of "hardening" your system as a desktop user that's also fairly easy/straightforward?
this isn't doing anything, thanks though, if I enable the keyboard in my "universal access" it pops up everytime I open a terminal, but I can't figure out a way to intentionally launch it...
Most distributions are prepackaged with SELinux, I think, and Gentoo has its Hardened Sources. I'm sure there's other tools out there.
Practically, there's not a huge incentive to lock down your desktop this way, but if you're a tinfoil hatter and a freetard like me you want as much security as possible.
I am ideologically opposed to letting the government and corporations spy on me, so I do all the security stuff I can without disabling my system.
No, it's just a transition.
Windows is closed-source malware designed to let you move a mouse around and click on things without any idea of how things work.
Linux can do that as well, and it's free software, open-sourced, and the alternatives to Windows software are generally superior.
The only areas Linux lags behind in are Games and Video Editing.
So i made a linux mint boot disc for 17.3 rosa works fine with my laptop but when i tried to boot off it on my main pc it gave me this an just kept repeating. Idk if its a simple fix thats why im here.
>you're making HTTP/S connections via this website
>they are tracking the boards you use and what you're posting
>even with 7vpn's and 7 proxies your personality of what you type can still generate a profile
He is Mook. We have deemed it.
As I'm looking more into it, it just seems like Caribou isn't really a standalone application but something of an add-on process attached to Gnome.
If you want something launchable, consider using Onboard:
this is working nicely
I'll look into it
> work hard making myself secure
> completely throwing all common sense out the window
See, not giving away personal information on the internet is literally shit they teach to children because it's so basic.
Yeah, if I were to post shit like that, then the profile generated by my posts would absolutely be of economical value and could single me out.
The personality that they'd associate with my IP address is not necessarily the same as the personality I have IRL, and I've given a few dozen contradictory references to my appearance and age because I lie a lot.
If we're going to go this level of paranoia I may as well rip out all internet-capable hardware on my computer.
How do I make SELinux work with systemd on Gentoo?
I get as far as trying to emerge @world but on the SELinux profile it makes everything ditch the systemd use flag and udev gets blocked.
> inb4 don't use systemd
I've heard it all before, and I don't feel like going to the trouble of removing systemd.
I'm using fedora 23 on my laptop. and after downloading qbittorrent I was disappointed because it doesn't calibrate and on my 3200×1800 resolution it's unusable and hurting my eyes.
What do? Same problem with steam.
I want to make a basic 3D game where I play as a 3D ball, and move him with the arrow keys and advance a level every time I touch a green box. What do I do first? I assume render the ball in blender, but do I need Unity, and if I do, Can I get that in the Debian version of Linux?
So what exactly is the point of installing a "beginner distro"? I have Elementary OS running on one computer and I haven't had to do anything special with it. Is there anything I should learn in this distro before I move on to something like Arch?
I know I'm kind of late, but I'm trying to install Debian on my desktop on a separate HDD without having to use the GRUB bootloader. I installed it once and it wouldn't boot from that disk, so I unplugged my Windows disks and I'm hoping that it won't prompt me to install grub. I just wanna use UEFI to pick a drive at startup every time. Will my method accomplish this?
I really love plasma 5's "konsole" terminal, however, unlike uxrvt which stays in the same position on my DE, konsole seems for close every time I restart for some reason.
Any advice? Should I just configure uxrvt to be like konsole instead?
Maybe, depending on whether you're doing it for a particular reason. Often people put /home on a separate partition, which is often a good idea as it allows you to encrypt/reuse your personal data separately.
Why does GRUB install fail on all my systems? Lilo bootloader workd but why? Trying to install Debian 8.2.0 from USB and CD to 2 diferent systems and both give same error at gruyb install.
Every now and then there will be at least ONE dumb winnigger trying hard to shill in Linux thread.
Lol so after that retard failed on mozilla support, arch forums and here, he's now masquerading as a gentoo user https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1037412-start-0.html
>hurr durr there's nothing wrong with my system
Ok, so I thinking about ditching windows and I´ve allready played around in a VM with a fedora flavor, and kinda liked it, the only thing is that I thought it runned pretty slow and had some hickups.
Should I install it dualbooted or not.or should I continue running it in a VM
>I thought it runned pretty slow and had some hickups.
Definitely the VM's fault. An actual installation of a Linux distro (i.e. not a VM emulation or a LiveCD) will always be fast, certainly during the first boots after everything is set up.
If you feel confident that you can solve some hardware-specific problems in Linux, then yeah, dual-booting is the way to go.
So I forgot my user password on my server and if possible want to avoid changing it, I can get access to the root account, so is there a way for me to recover my users password (I don't want to change it, just find out what the fuck it was) I typed it right once and got in, but that was my fucking muscle memory doing the job and I immediately wasn't sure exactly what I'd typed.
iirc password files aren't readable even by root (they're all obfuscated).
I'm sure there's a program out there to read the files, but honestly you may as well change it.
Do you use big passwords? I can understand not wanting to change a long-ass password.
A protip: Use a sequence of four or five words seperated by spaces. Increases entropy and easier to remember.
Technically an equally long sequence of random characters is more secure, but the difficulty to remember makes it not worth it.
>just given up and changed password
>fingers go to type old password
>immediately remember the part I was typing wrong
Feels so good to remember it, it was going to forever bother me if I couldn't.
> oh, better reboot to make this wallpaper change!
> Better reboot to install this browser!
> Better reboot to complete this reboot!
> Better reboot to make the password change!
> Virtually everything else is immediate
Nice bait, son.
I have an old desktop here.
633Mhz intel cpu and 64MB ram, is there an OS for stuff like this that doesn't OOM's real quick and can actually be used for /hsg/?
I'm thinking about running pptp on it.
No answer soon = >>>/thrash/