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Why can't this piece of achingly godawful...
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Why can't this piece of achingly godawful fucking garbage just fuck off and die already?
>>
>>52444401
because it works?
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>>52444441
It doesn't
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>>52444441
Broken, insecure, full of bugs, old, ugly... And all the freetard is glad about is that it works. Hooray.
>>
gets the job done for me *shrug*
>>
>>52444401
>>52444573
I never had problems with xorg
>>
>>52444462
>>52444573
but it does work. even if not well, it works.
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>>52444786
You probably haven't been using it very long. It gets better ever year. More and more of the time you can just boot a distribution using Xorg and have it "just work". That certainly was not always the case. Every veteran Linux or BSD user can tell you about the hours of painful hacking at xorg.conf that was often required.
>>
>>52444462
>>52444573

Casuals
>>
>>52444883
The switch from Nvidia's proprietary drivers to the open source AMD ones was certainly a vision. I went from having to manually add hacks to get the Nvidia driver to detect my monitor properly and even then having problems with some modes to everything just working with the open source one from the first boot.

Now if AMD could just get it up to speed and get at least OpenGL 4.3 support in place.
>>
>>52444401
Once sway gets borders I'm switching to that shit.
>>
Because debian maintainers too busy being SJWs to include wayland
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>>52444883
So what's the problem if it works now?
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>>52445146
Still less than optimal performance-wise, still insecure, still has graphical problems. Other than that it's okay
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>>52444573
I'm glad i support proprietary software. I vow I'll never release the source code for anything i make just to piss off freetards.
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>>52445146
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44
>>
>>52444401
>implying wayland will be any better

"Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly." - Henry Spencer
>>
>>52445291
see >>52445207
>>
>>52445291
X11 is probably as far from
>muh UNIX philosophy
as no other widely used software.

X11 tries to be a flying pig with a kitchen sink and carries tons of obsolete cruft like the drawing functions that nobody uses anymore but every driver has to implement it. Network transparency is a farce. Every client draws itself anyway.
>>
>>52445291
Wayland can't be worse than X.
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>>52445291
Heh that video
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>>52445392
Its really a great talk. Kind of depressing that we're nearly three years on and Wayland still isn't quite there yet.
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>>52444462
>>52444792

Oh, hiya Lunix pals! I see you, like most people don't have Xenocara still. That's just one of the reasons OpenBSD is the superior OS.
>>
>>52445370
This. It astonishes me how may people actually think X11 is the Unix Way™ of doing things.
>>
>>52444401
Literally never had a problem with it, see no problem with it in the forseeable future.

Does wayland even offer anything like X forwarding over SSH?
>>
>>52445592
X forwarding is a farce since every client draws itself. Today it is like VNC, just slower and worse.

Wayland will probably have RDP which allows remoting of individual applications
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>>52445615
>will
But it doesn't now? So why would I use it again?
>>
>>52445669
The reference compositor Weston already support RDP, but only full screen.

>So why would I use it again?
You should use it to develop and/or port desktop environments.
>>
>>52445291
UNIX is a piece of shit.

It needs to be reinvented.
>>
>>52444401
there are too many whiny faggots and not enough people working on alternatives
>>
>>52445767
The main thing holding me back is the lack of support from nvidia's proprietary drivers and a good WM for wayland.
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>>52445920
sign me up to that club
>>
>>52445757
That would be Plan 9.
>>
>>52445959
I'm not sure how usable this is, but an i3 replacement for Wayland exists.
https://github.com/SirCmpwn/sway
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>>52445515

Does OpenBSD have steam, though?
>>
if dwm was on wayland I'd switch in a heartbeat
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>>52446594
There is sway which is comparable to i3. There's actually a couple of tiling compositors for wayland but I can't remember them all.
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>>52446600
but I like dwm

I'll give it a shot, but I'll keep my fingers crossed for a port
>>
>>52446586
I dunno. You should go ask the mailing list. Address your inquiry to Theo directly, for faster response. They love helping newbies, especially from Linux, get into the OS.
>>
>>52446708
kek
>>
>>52446708

If you don't know, then it doesn't. Now fuck off and don't come back until it does.
>>
>>52444401
X is just a specification. You're free to write your own implementation if you hate the Xorg implementation so much.
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>>52447090
The specification is the shitty part, the implementation is okay, proprietary drivers aside.
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>>52447136
You're using words but I don't think you understand them.
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>>52446804
You're not very bright are you? And no, your mother lied to you when she told you otherwise. Why the fuck would you take the word of someone who repeatedly dropped you on your head?
>>
Devs won't port to wayland / mir
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>>52446382
call me when something like openbox is out, and does not look like halfassed and unfinished shit like orbital does in the demo video
>>
>>52444401
You could probably use wayland with no problems right now if you really wanted to.
>>
>>52444441
I HATE THIS MENTALITY.
>>
>>52450442
Yeah, we should use things that are non-functional, right retard
>>
>>52450473
NO, WE SHOULD IMPROVE ON THINGS. IDIOT.
WHY ARE YOU COMFORTABLE IN SHIT?

Wayland is clearly superior to X in every conceivable way, Wayland pretty much wrecks X.
But no fucktards like you reject new technology because the current one still somewhat works, despite being a horrible fucking hack and slow.
>>
>>52450473
Yeah, let's not try to improve on things because they already work... somehow.
>who needs a chair when you can sit on a rock?
>lol enjoy your proprietary clothes while I wear this rough fox pelt of +1 freedom
>why even cook food? this raw elephant shit already tastes good enough
>>
Is Wayland already usable on BSD? Because if yes then I'm jumping for that.
>>
>>52445378
Every WM/compositor in Wayland has to be it's own display server.
Yes, it's worse. At least for now.
>>
>>52450553
Just like on Linux, the issue isn't "if" it works but "when" it works.
Currently Wayland isn't usable without a display server, which has to be provided by the WM. I'm pretty sure that so far only KDE and GNOME have actually created functional Wayland display servers yet.
So you can use it, IF you're using KDE or GNOME.
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>>52445205
>look at me, I never release my shitty code, because I am edgy
>>
>>52450501
>Wayland is clearly superior to X in every conceivable way, Wayland pretty much wrecks X.
In gnome3 you can use wayland as backend but I had many problems with.
I tried orbment about half year ago but back then some application were really fucking slow.

At least X works unlike any environment using wayland currently.
>>
>>52445432
this could be said about anything on linux.
how many years it took for Pulseaudio to even become 'stable'? and it's still fucking shit.

OSSv4 destroys it any day.
>>
Why do /g/ mocks xorg specifically while they love much worse garbageware like gtk or firefox or zsh
>>
>>52445291
i think you are talking about linux being a terminal OS. which is not true the living example for that is android.
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>>52445432
we should just use surfaceflinger
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>>52451703
>garbageware like gtk or firefox or zsh
w-what
>>
>>52451755
why is xorg shit?
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>>52451116
Well obviously a desktop environment designed for X is going to work like shit on Wayland.
We have to wait until we have proper software for Wayland.
Just because it's not backwards compatible with X, doesn't mean it's shit.
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>>52445515
xenocara is literally xorg with patches to make it a bit more secure

you might be retarded
>>
>>52450717
Not really, weston has a plugin system.
>>
>>52445392

Source ?
>>
>>52444401
in 10 years maybe...

Replacing X with something is a big task, which requires a large portion of the linux community to get behind in a co-ordinated fashion. This is something linux is absolutely terrible at.

Wayland is of course the current effort to kill X, but that may yet fall on its face or just run out of momentum.
>>
>>52451703
>gtk
Prime garbage
>firefox
Because its only real flaw is bloat
>zsh
What's wrong with it?
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>>52451923
I'm not a programmer. How can I support Wayland at this moment?
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>>52451816
it's a bloated unwieldy piece of shit and we just keep on piling more shit on top
>>
It's telling that while most of the stuff in the old Unix Haters Handbook is now irrelevant, the chapter on X11 is still largely true (although we no have toolkits like GTK+ & Qt and I haven't seen Motif in over 5 years+):

http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/unix-haters/x-windows/disaster.html
>>
>>52451950
I guess you can try using it. But it's not much use yet. Unless you're a programmer, I'm no sure what you can do. Except maybe pay another programmer to support it.
>>
>>52452001
>But it's not much use yet
How so?
>>
>>52450717
does that mean different gpu drivers for different de?
no?
then it's okay
>>
>>52452030
Hardly any desktop environments support it, and ones that do don't do a great job yet. Also it's hard to find drivers that support wayland generally.
>>
>>52450717
Why is that bad?
>>
>>52452068
Gnome and KDE do, and those are the only ones that matter these days anyway
>Also it's hard to find drivers that support wayland generally.
Won't those be handled as a separate XWayland client?
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>>52451952
so like every program I listed plus much more that you use? i'm asking why are you guys bitching about xorg specifically which isn't as bad as many other software you use daily and even call them good.
>>
>>52452138
Don't think I recall anybody calling gtk good, ever. Maybe except the developers.
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>>52452119
isn't it just experimental for those two though?
>Won't those be handled as a separate XWayland client?
not talking about X. Talking about drivers that will support the rendering pipeline Wayland uses.
>>
Wayland will be the default in Fedora 24, get hyped OP!
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>>52450717
That's exactly what's good about Wayland. This is how Windows, OS X, iOS and Android work.
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>>52452221
This enough is a reason to switch to fedora.
>>
X has proven itself quite capable for decades in professional computing environments.
Just don't use it if your computer is a toy.
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>>52452276
>3 months after fedora 23 ga
>rpmfusion still not ready and in testing
>>
>>52452221
lies:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/24/ChangeSet
>>
>>52452333
>X is fine if your standard are low
Linux is awesome guys, MS is tEh 3vil 8DD
>>
Not to say X hasn't problems.
But anyone who hates it this violently has to be some pleb who's mad that he can't get his shiny new expensive Gaymer hardware to work right.
>>
>>52452455
>But anyone who hates it this violently
Violently?

People on /g/ often hate really badly designed, slow, bloated, buggy software. Not sure I can fault them.
>>
>>52452535
>People on /g/ often hate really badly designed, slow, bloated, buggy software.
I don't see many posts like OP's about Sublime.

Also nothing you said about it is really true.
X is just showing its age.
>>
>>52452391
Heh, at least do your research and read about the history of the industry before you talk out of your ass
>>
If you can't set up X properly you have no business trying to use it or trying to discuss technology and software with me.
>>
>>52452586
>>52452649
>I don't see many posts like OP's about Sublime.
That's because sublime is none of those things.

>X is just showing its age.
X was badly designed from day one.
http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/unix-haters/x-windows/disaster.html
It's slowness is very measurable. There's hundreds of unnecessary calls made on every frame in X, i recall they can take upto 10ms to complete, easily causing dropped frames, or input lag.
I really shouldn't have to explain why it is now a bloated shit show.

Being old maybe be the cause of some of this shittyness, but it's not a defence.
>>
>>52452068
>Also it's hard to find drivers that support wayland generally.

Drivers that support it? Wait a minute, isn't one of the main ideas about Linux is that the kernel does all the driver support
>>
>>52446382
>wlc
Oh right, the one which doesn't implement subsurfaces and makes like half GTK3 applications break.
>>
Just use Remix OS. It uses Android's SurfaceFlinger as its window compositor.
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>>52452743
>isn't one of the main ideas about Linux is that the kernel does all the driver support
... no?
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>>52452767
>Remix OS
That's not even GNU/Linux. Might as well just use Windows.
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>>52452734
>That's because sublime is none of those things.
Oops, sorry - I meant Atom.

>UNIX Haters Handbook
That section was written by someone who's mad that his own display server never caught on.

>There's hundreds of unnecessary calls made on every frame in X
That sounds like someone using it wrong.
>>
>>52444401
It's needed for the systemd takeover
>>
From http://wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html

"Wayland is not really duplicating much work. Where possible, Wayland reuses existing drivers and infrastructure. One of the reasons this project is feasible at all is that Wayland reuses the DRI drivers, the kernel side GEM scheduler and kernel mode setting. Wayland doesn't have to compete with other projects for drivers and driver developers, it lives within the X.org, mesa and drm community and benefits from all the hardware enablement and driver development happening there."

so basically, if your X drivers are shitty, so are your wayland drivers.
>>
>>52452790
lol. nice try.
>>
>>52452807
People give out about Atom for being bloated, slow and buggy whenever it's mentioned. It's just that hardly anyone uses it.

>That section was written by someone who's mad that his own display server never caught on.
You could be right anon. Maybe he owns stock in MS and Apple too. He's still right though.

>That sounds like someone using it wrong.
? That's how it works. Whenever a window renders something, this happens. It's one of the major issues with X, they developers know about this stuff, but because it's not functionally broken they never fix it for fear of breaking something. This is part of the reason for some members leaving to make Wayland. To leave all this useless cruft behind that has become so bloated and complex that no one knows how to fix anymore.
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>>52452878
>People give out about Atom for being bloated, slow and buggy whenever it's mentioned
Yes, but not with the same asspained tone.

>Whenever a window renders something,
What are you talking about? Just all the events it causes? You can specify what events to capture in your X application.
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>>52452767
Is it FOSS?
>>
>Wayland
removing your middle-click paste, because fuck you
>>
>>52452928
>Yes, but not with the same asspained tone.
because no one uses it. It's like giving out about WinAmp or someshit. No one uses it so who cares? X is something people have to put up with a lot.

>Just all the events it causes? You can specify what events to capture in your X application.
No, I'm talking calls that happen within X server itself. Doesn't matter if you capture them or not in your own application, X still makes them. It's just layers of crud that have been added over the years that no one can justify the time to optimise out, and if they could it would be a big job to do so with high confidence that you didn't break something. Again, the is why many X devs left to developer Wayland, because X does tonnes of shit it shouldn't be responsible for in the first place. And it's getting to a point now where it's so complicated that only about 3 or 4 people know how the whole thing works. It's not sustainable going forward.
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>>52452985
Can't you just map out the paste function by yourself?
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>>52452986
>X is something people have to put up with a lot.
For most people X's problem don't matter.
A modern toolkit like gtk or qt just use directlrendering, moving most parts of X completely out of the picture. And the few mb a full xorg build eats is completely overshadowed by DE's bloat.
What end-users struggle with are bad graphic drivers or shitty setups.

>>52452986
>No, I'm talking calls that happen within X server itself.
Can you post your source? I want to know more details.
>>
When will Wayland be usable in Gnome or other DEs?
>>
>>52453120
Wayland has no buffers at all.
The protocol is very minimal and has zero input handling, copy-pasting, etc..
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>>52453096
>For most people X's problem don't matter.
Windows tearing, input and rendering lag are still significant issues

>Can you post your source?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44
>>
>>52453154
>Windows tearing
setup problem, depends on the drivers and your wm
>input and rendering lag
When has that ever be a problem for an end-user?

>video
browsed through but I didn't see nothing like that.
>>
>>52444955
>tfw stuck with OpenGL 3.3
Please kill me already
>>
>>52453417
>browsed through but I didn't see nothing like that.
either you are uneducated or just agreed to his point, pick your poison.

>>input and rendering lag
Have you really never seen some of the screen tearing X has (I think compositors can fix that somewhat) or noticed that popups just lock the input in a really ugly way?
>>
>>52453417
>When has that ever be a problem for an end-user?
since the construction of the first computer.

>browsed through but I didn't see nothing like that.
https://youtu.be/RIctzAQOe44?t=1368
>>
>>52453488
>either you are uneducated or just agreed to his point, pick your poison.
I don't need no education

>Have you really never seen some of the screen tearing X has
I addressed that
>noticed that popups just lock the input in a really ugly way?
No. That doesn't even sound like a latency problem
>>
>>52453417
Tearing is a problem in most distros OOTB, and how you fix it depends on your GPU and WM. Oftentimes the fix comes with a trade off (input lag).

For example, I'm using an Nvidia card with Xfce. OOTB there's tearing, regardless of if I install Nouveau or proprietary drivers. If you want to get rid of the tearing 100%, you install a "3rd party" compositor like compton and configure it to use OpenGL. If you use OpenGL, then you get significant input lag because you have to wait for things to draw onto the screen because of the vsync. You can see it easily by watching your windows draw relative to your cursor (which moves instantly).

The other solution I've found is to force compositing via xorg.conf, which gives much less input lag but you end up with massive stuttering.

Part of it IS Nvidia's problem because the problem isn't as bad when I use IGP, but the issue is still there. And you can't really tell everyone "lol it's Nvidia's fault" when Windows and OSX don't seem to have an issue at all.

So no matter how you cut it, a real solution is needed badly in the Linux world and that's what Wayland+Weston are supposed to be.
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>>52453494
>since the construction of the first computer.
Show me an end-user complaining about lag in an application, that can demonstratively be traced back to inherent X flaws, and not the application using it wrong or using something bloated like gtk.

>https://youtu.be/RIctzAQOe44?t=1368
this links to ipc, not stuff the server does internally
and also benchmarks a fucking gtk application, which does god knows what
>>
>>52453488
>compositors
They fix it with dragging, but as soon as you resize a window the UIs become a flickering pile of garbage.
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>>52453683
depends on the application
qt applications usually handle it very well
>>
Does anyone here know what is wrong with X and what wayland does that is better?

I mean the main argument is that X is old.
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>>52453804
>>
>>52453870
So wayland is better because it has a built in compositor?
thats it?
Every WM developer should rewrite their shit from scratch just because they don't need an external compositor anymore?
>>
>>52453938
Wayland is a protocol, it's not a compositor. Look at http://wayland.freedesktop.org/ if you actually care. But if you want, install weston (the reference compositor for wayland) and test it yourself right now. Windows are more responsive, there's no lag while dragging, there's no vsync issues. It's fairly clear that it's a superior desktop experience.
>>
>>52453938
Basically, X gets in the way when all you want is to directly render your application using OpenGl (because X is old)
>>
>>52444401
Because Wayland is far from being ready: http://www.soscon.net/download/day27/ST3/S_27_1600_Derek%20Foreman.pdf

Most of it didn't change as of 2016.

>inb4 Mir
Only plebs care about this product of NIH.
>>
>>52453938
It's better because it isn't an incredibly slow bloated pile of shit. X's codebase is filled with hacks and fixes over the decades in an attempt to help it keep up with modern expectations of desktop UI. X is so complex now only about 3 people understand how the whole thing works, and there's tonnes of shit in there that can't be fixed at all now.

X was built for a different era. Now most applications really just need a framebuffer to render to, some information about the window and user input. That's it. All the networking transparent UI rendering stuff that X was built for is a thing of the past, and doesn't even work any more after all the new layers of shit added to it.

X causes very real input lag and rendering lag too as a result. Wayland takes all this away.

WM's don't need to rewrite everything from scratch either.
>>
>>52454022
>weston
That's the biggest argument against Wayland.

Now even my "display server" needs fucking systemd and polkit.
>>
>>52444441
who got the hexes?
>>52444444
>>
>>52454058
Weston is just a demo compositor. Not something you would actually use.
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>>52454058
It doesn't need it. It doesn't even need the logind you retard.
>>
>>52451893
>>52445207
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44
>>
>>52452985
Pretty sure that is up to the compositor devs to implement or not wayland doesn't change any of that it's simply a protocol that applications communicate through
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>>52454077
The others compositors don't fill me with hope either

>>52454098
Unless you can compile it without colord, it does require it.
>>
>>52445432
probably not even halfway there yet. Fucking loads to do.
>>
>>52454145
>The others compositors don't fill me with hope either
Why?
>>
>>52453417
>setup problem, depends on the drivers and your wm
And it's a setup problem because X is shit.
>>
>>52454178
Because I don't have much faith in Gnome, KDE, and enlightenment devs.
>>
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>open source
>has more legacy cruft
>>
Call me when there's xsnow for Wayland and I'll switch
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>>52454143
There's already a proposal on ML. Look for "Add Primary Selection Protocol Version" in this and previous month. It's not as straightforward because you don't want to let clients scan your primary clipboard.
>>
>>52454225
That's actually completely impossible with core Wayland
>>
>>52453546
I never noticed tearing problem with my amd card. my laptop with intel igp also doesn't have this issue.

> And you can't really tell everyone "lol it's Nvidia's fault" when Windows and OSX don't seem to have an issue at all.
My amd gpu works 5 degrees cooler on windows, draws ~30 watt less power (although i only tested the overall system power draw, but what else could cause power draw?)
Does that mean it's Xorg fault or amd's fault?
>>
>>52446382
My dorm neighbor tried out pretty much every single option for running Wayland.
Says sway is literally the most workable, even more than Weston. Still not ready and constantly breaks dialog windows and tooltips, but it's farther along than everyone, especially from independent compositors written mainly by one man.
>>
>>52453938
With the X model before an application can do anything they have to pass their message to X. Then X has to observe the screen and decide if it can be put on the screen and if it can then it hands it off to the window manager who is actually responsible for placing it on the screen and the positioning of it and pretty much everything else. Then the WM sends the new information to X and X updates the entire screen and sends the information to the clients. The WM is basically the display server on the X model while the entire X server is just being used to pass messages. The problem is X really sucks at passing messages because it has a lot of functionality that cannot be removed and it constantly tries to use it where it should not be using it. Those functions introduce latency and cause graphical problems.

The wayland model removes the entirety of the X server and leaves behind a very minimal protocol that applications can communicate through instead. Application sends its stuff to the WM(now a full display server) and the WM just does it and then updates the screen and sends information back to the clients directly.
>>
>>52454318
This is a bit misleading.
X does very necessary things, but for old setups where direct rendering wasn't a thing and X had to have all rendering logic.
When all your application does, is using OpenGL to draw everything using the GPU - then it does get in the way.
>>
how is this bad? i just installed it on my fresh arch, you mad?
>>
>>52454424
>>>/g/desktop
>>
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will qt support mir? if not, how can ubuntu survive without it?
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>>52455012
It already does.
So does GTK.
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I can understand why a DEVELOPER could find it more "confortable" than the old, bloated, incoherent Xwindow.

But I totally fail to understand why on earth a USER should use it.

Wayland is not faster, is not stabler, has no network transparency, is incompatible with lot applications. It has no killer application, no "wow" feature, no compelling reason. And, last, but not least, we will probably have to keep both Wayland AND X for years, and years. Doubling the number of bugs and halving the number of developers.

All this, just for giving developers a new shiny environment to have fun with? Let's say it's ok, but why should I, the final user, care?
>>
>>52455172
>I can understand why a DEVELOPER could find it more "confortable" than the old, bloated, incoherent Xwindow.
It really doesn't do anything for developers.
Barely anyone uses X directly.
>>
>>52455172
Most developers use a toolkit like Qt or gtk.
For them it would not matter how Qt or gtk works, they should just focus on the software.
>>
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>>52444401
Works for me.
>>
>>52444401
because it incorporates a shit ton of features and primitives people like and there isn't a FOSS Window Server that replicates those conveniences.
>>
>>52444883
>painful hacking at xorg.conf

people still cry about that shit?
>wah muh modelines
>>
>>52445207
>The Real Story
>we want DE's devs do all the work

there
summed up the real reason for everyone
>>
Wayland won't even matter because it's not GPL and that angers the holy RMS
>>
>>52455529
Neither is X
>>
>>52455511
They were already doing all the work though.
>>
>>52455451
>no xeyes
>>
>>52453546
>And you can't really tell everyone "lol it's Nvidia's fault"

but you can faggot.
>>
>>52446708
Don't do this it makes mustard gas
>>
>>52455172
>Wayland is not faster, is not stabler
Not true. It was the reason Wayland was created, too, because there is an improvement in both of these, or will be when it's smoothed out.
>has no network transparency
Neither does X. And it can be implemented in Wayland, it just doesn't have a default definition.
>is incompatible with lot applications
Which is why Xwayland exists. It solves half the problem, the other half with have to be solved by authors of compositors, admittedly.
>It has no killer application, no "wow" feature, no compelling reason.
It's overall better, distros will start switching to it eventually when it gets decent enough, the users won't care enough to switch back. There wouldn't be a reason to leave it either, do you see many people switching from ALSA to OSS nowadays? From systemd to other init systems? For most users, whatever comes by default, rules the day, unless it's blatantly unworkable.
>And, last, but not least, we will probably have to keep both Wayland AND X for years, and years. Doubling the number of bugs and halving the number of developers.
It's a better solution than staying on X for eternity. Also, GTK3 and QT5 programs are already supposed to be display server-independent, and most people use toolkits, there would probably be bugs, but most of these are supposed to be trivial. Old X-dependent programs will have to test their work both on X and Xwayland, sure, but it's not quite "every single program now has to spend twice the time on their bugs".
Also, >>52455230 Developers really don't care about underlying X much, besides the fact what they are compatible with, and what not, plus some trivial stuff. It's mostly developed because it's supposed to be a faster, more stable, better thought-out way of doing things that will make every program work better. It isn't fully workable nowadays, but it's because of relatively little time spent on it. It will be ready one day, and then it will be objectively better than X, for users.
>>
because wayland doesn't work with proprietary drivers.
>>
>>52455843
That's completely up to Nvidia and AMD. AMD is actually in the process adding wayland support to catalyst, they're making catalyst use the open source kernel driver which will bring wayland support as an unintentional but beneficial side effect.

Nvidia on the other hand is sticking to their guns and just rewriting their binary blob kernel module thing to add wayland support that way.


AMD will probably have wayland support on catalyst well before Nvidia adds wayland support to their driver.
>>
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Work on this has been ongoing since 2011 and is expected to take years rather than months before a completely transparent switch away from X will be possible

Almost 5 years of work and still devs will need several years more. Don't you think that when Wayland will be totally "finished", in 2020 or so, may be it will be born already obsolete?
>>
>>52455843
>caring about proprietary drivers
>>
>>52455933
Wayland is already finished the problem is getting devs to use it. It's similar to how every time a new version of directx comes out it takes fucking 6 years before anyone can use it
>>
>>52455933
Even Mir seems more usable
>>
>>52455927
>That's completely up to Nvidia and AMD
Who it's up to is irrelevant. The point is that it doesn't work.
>>
>>52455955
Mir is not the same as wayland it's actually more like another X. It's an entire package, a display server/WM/compositor, support libraries, input handling, and whatever else is needed. Mir is designed to be "ready" at release. Wayland requires a bit more time to set up because although it has many libraries to help devs out it still requires other devs to make use of them.


>>52455981
I see you didn't read the rest of my post. Try reading it again, AMD and Nvidia are working on wayland support. Intel has had wayland support. As soon as wayland was released Intel supported it because their driver never relied on proprietary implementations of OpenGL.
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