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Obama wants every child in America to learn...
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You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology

Thread replies: 105
Thread images: 14
http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/01/14/462954645/adding-beauty-and-joy-to-obamas-push-for-computer-science-teaching

Thoughts on this?
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It's the future!
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>>52428393
literally microsoft word and how to use google
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Fuck that. Plop those fuckers down in front of a C64 and don't let them out until they manage to make something that works.
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Oh boy, good thing I finished in the field before it becomes so saturated and useless!
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>>52428393
When will the "not enough jobs in STEM" meme end? This is going to be the most oversatured field in 5 - 12 years if this keeps up...

I suppose if nothing else, this'll motivate me to keep trying my best, and get as much certs & actual experience as I can. I'll stand out more than the plebs who have nothing more than a degree.
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>>52428523
it will be over saturated with charlatans and mediocrity that seeks hand holding.
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>>52428655
I just started CS and people are getting weeded out pretty quickly at the school I'm at. I met an old friend from middle school and they kept complaining about java and having no idea what anything meant so they dropped it immediately. I myself stopped going after I ended up going to the hospital since I found a job doing programming work on my own. Kinda glad I'm not spending the next 4 years learning stuff I already taught myself.
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Why? What the fuck? Is he trying to get me to lose my job?
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>>52428779
Probably the same meme as "livable minimum wage", I.e. raising the floor and expecting the ceiling not to follow
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>>52428779
It's going to benefit true software engineers, the mass will fail at it again which will up the price of truly virtuous.
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>>52428779
exactly
why do you think they are putting so many women CS programs?

Women make less so it's better for them to have more available
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>OOGA BOOGA MAKE ME GOOD PORN APP!
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>>52428393
yay

more retards who cant code without hand holding flooding the market

if you want to make millions just make a plug and play programming language for niggers
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>>52428655
i dont give a fuck to be honest
most cs kids now are stupid and if the field really does become oversaturated ill just become a bus driver like my dad and make good money
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>>52428393
Not worried since as a consultant I'll get paid to come fix all their broke shit
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What trade should I pick up before the CS field collapses in on itself?
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>>52428920
plumbing, electrician, blue collar shit that will never die is a good back up
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>>52428393
>Schools are teaching kids how to read and write
>Oy vey, us scribes will be out of a job!
Face it, in 100 years people will be surprised that we didn't teach our kids how to code.

Are novelists and technical writers out of jobs? If you're a competent programmer you shouldn't be worried.
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>>52428393
When referring to "CS", the person is usually referring to:

>>52428450

People have no idea what CS actually is, and they can't make a scatter plot in excel to save their lives.
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>>52429027
What, they don't teach that in America?
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>>52429073
I had a "computer literacy" class at least 5 times from elementary to college.

It's always just keyboarding, excel, word, PowerPoint. Never filesystem, never teaching URL or IP base concepts, never even considering the concept of account security and permissions.

It's basic fucking knowledge and its never ever covered
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>>52428393
>>52428655
No it will not be saturated. Students who graduate high school learn high school math. So why can't I hire math tutors for a dime a dozen? Students who graduate high school study a foreign language of some sort like Spanish, French and German. Why can't I hire foreign language translators for a dime a dozen? The lessons taught in school will not imply that the fields will be saturated.
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>>52428867
Just make ook with watermelon pictures
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>>52429109
here they only teach that stuff in high school if you chose it as an elective, which is one of the more unpopular ones
at least they taught basic HTML in middle school, but I bet no one remembered that
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>>52428393

NETWORKING/SECURITY CREW REPORT IN!

How come we are never effected by this EVERYONE CODE EVERYONE STEM EVERYONE COMP SCI! meme?

Do people just not like hacking the gibson or what?

Not that I'm complaining.
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Who blue collar trade master race?
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>>52429115

you can get both of those things and most of them will be dime a dozen shit tier tutors though
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>>52428393

Think about programming is most people give up after the first year or first class even. What drives me fucking crazy is everyone wants everyone to code but job is only for certain types of people not everyone can just do this shit. It takes a certain kind of brain and thinking to program.
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>>52429254
>blue collar
>master race
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>>52428669
youfag
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>>52429327
>$40 an hour, $1 an hour raise a year plus profit and performance bonuses
>anything over 40 hours a week is overtime
>4 weeks paid vacation a year plus sick days
>low stress job
>don't even have to get overtime unless I want it
>doing a job I've wanted to do since I was 8
Feels pretty master race to me.
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I have mixed feelings about it, and it really depends on how it's done.

On the one hand, I really don't think everyone has the ability to do well as a programmer. That doesn't mean that they deserve less than other people though. There are, obviously, plenty of things that one could be successful in, other than programming, that would allow a person to contribute to society in a meaningful way, and in ways that people who are really good programmers might not even be able to. So it concerns me that this sort of skill set gets so integrated into school curricula that it suddenly sets people off to a significant disadvantage if they aren't capable of groking programming, even beyond the disadvantage they're at in the current tech-focused economy. Does someone who is really good at, idk providing insightful context to historical events, but can't program for shit, really deserve a lower GPA than someone who is just good enough at both?

On the other hand, I graduated from high school in 2009 in the silicon valley, and there was not one programming or even programming-related class available in my entire school career. So I didn't even know that programming clicked really well with me until my second year of college. I managed to luck out in that regard, and made it to grad school at a top-tier school in my sub-field, but how many people in my same class didn't get that lucky? Never bothered taking any programming courses, or did too late to switch majors? (I realize the typical audience here will read this as nails on a chalkboard, but I'm willing to bet women and minorities are even more likely to get fucked by this, irrespective to their talent.)

So I think over all, this will help. My biggest hope is that it breaks the sort of Facebook/Google-as-a-platform mentality that's taken over the web, and it will inspire future generations to see computers as something to hack on, and not interactive TVs.
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>>52428393

It's a useless fucking skill.

Most companies only ever use programming for automation anyway unless they're a software/tech company and even that's too much for kids to really grasp

The average everyday person has no use for coding. The average working professional doesn't either.

So the idea of teaching young kids programming and having them do projects etc in it is pointless. Everyone uses classical sciences and maths/arithmetic in their everyday lives to some degree.

People do not use computer science outside of work in their everyday lives except maybe when they operate a calculator.

If it was an everyday skill that was required I'd say sure, but it's just not. Maths? yep for counting shit, need to know your tables etc. Biology? Yep reproduction, understanding foods etc. Chemistry? Yep, this is salt, this is a mixture, this is x etc. Somewhat important. Physics? Yep this is weight, this is how we measure it, etc.

Computer Science? This is of no use to the child.
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does this nigger ever shut up?
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>>52429605
computer science is more than just programming. it teaches you abstract thinking and maths. the programming part isn't even the important part of it tbhwyf.
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>>52429290
Well there you go. Teaching computer science to everyone in school will do nothing to the STEM field.
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>>52429605
By your definition everything you learn after elementary school is completely useless

While that may be true, it's not an argument against teaching it
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>>52429647
Computer science as taught in school will be nothing more than basic programming. The basics of higher math will be introduced in high school but I sincerely doubt that they'd be making use of such math beyond learning binary numbers and logic gates.
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Maybe they should start teaching economics so people stop voting for fucktards like Obama and Trump
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>>52429704
I will vote for Trump just to make people mad.
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>>52429730
That'll show 'em.
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>>52429730
This desu
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>>52429730
Better than Hillary at least.
If it takes a community to raise a child, why can't the community beat that dumb shit's ass when it does dumb shit?
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Doesn't matter.

Two simple facts.

1. Retards can't program.
2. Most people are retards.
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>>52429730
Doing the same exact thing desu.
Just got the right to vote too. Turned 18 a couple of months ago :^)
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>>52429384
>$40 an hour
You do know that is absolute shit right?
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>>52429647

then give them puzzles, give them rubiks cubes to do, why is it that people think programming teaches some kind of problem solving ability that nothing else has? it's good for that but it's not unique to programming at all. most nerds into video games, board games, dnd and other shit for a reason.

the bit about learning maths is pointless, you aren't gonna teach 15 year olds what O(n) means and have it be of any relevance to them, either in their maths course or otherwise

>>52429683

it is. school is just there to give people a basic fundamental understanding of our world.

Look at how many people learn a language in school and then completely forget it all of 2-3 years later.

I knew French pretty well at one point in my life to the point that I could tell entire stories in it, but I couldn't tell you what a single single word of it means now.

However physics, biology etc I've retained pretty well because it lends to my understanding of the world and how things work.

Programming (cause lets face it that's what will be taught) is just a language that people won't retain. At best they'll remember a vague familiarity with it and really they gain no advantage from knowing it early on.

Aside from that there's not enough material in CS imo to make up a school subject. Stuff like history and geography are core information that every person should know.

Do people NEED to know how to operate the Java Swing library or the differences between an interpreter and a compiler?

Fuck no, it's specialized information that only certain people will need to know for their job or for their hobby.

This is just people circle jerking themselves stupid over the fact that they can write a hello world program or the equivalent of it, and now they reckon their kids should know how too because they figure starting them early means they'll be highly paid experts later.
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I personally like the idea mate, honestly most kids these days look dumb founded every time I start talking about specs on a PC, or what a graphics card is for crying out loud, so yeah, I think it's a great idea.
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>>52429996
just make sure to register as Republican to vote in the primaries, bro. after we get Trump elected you can register as a Libertarian.
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>>52429730
Ever heard of "Cutting off the nose to spite the face"?
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>>52430003
I can afford to buy a house and feed a family on that wage. It works for me.
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Is a CS degree worth it lads? I've already got a bunch of standing IT certs (A+, Net+, Sec+, Linux, Microsoft, CCNA) and 6 years of IT experience.

I don't really enjoy programming, I've self learned python, html5, Jscript and CSS and It's not fun for me at all.

Would electrical engineering be a better choice? Trying to get a 100k+ job, even with a top secret polygraphed clearence (feels good man) I doubt I can get that in IT alone.
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>>52430118
Daily reminder that computer science is not a degree in programming. If you want to be a professional programmer, go study a programming course.
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>>52430118
>Trying to get a 100k+ job

you could do that with an undergrad CS degree at the big tech companies in silicon valley.
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>>52430118

Final year CS student here, CS is mostly theory. You'll do at least as much mathematics and theory as you'll do programming.

Personally if I was in your position I'd do Computer Engineering but I don't have much experience of that course.

Every tech position these days hangs off the nuts of CS degrees so I dunno, ultimately if you can get work in IT doing your thing I'd just do that.

I basically did this degree because I couldn't get a job where I am now without one. Sure enough I already have internships lined up for this summer, they might even be paid.
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>>52428393
nooo i want the normies to stay tech illiterate
it's the only advantage i have over them these days
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>>52429384
I want to fuck that catgirl
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sophomore CE should I jump to EE while I can ?
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>>52428393
lmao if you think the us goverment can put together a competent educational program, let alone in a complicated and fast-moving field like cs
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>>52430315
CS isn't really a fast-moving field. Information technology moves very quickly but computer science does not.
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>>52429569
I like how my high school does it (inb4 underage, Senior)
We have AP computer science and AICE (cambridge sponsored) computing classes, however they're not pushed on anyone and the list of students is actually chosen by the head engineering teacher, so he only assigns people from the other engineering classes who can at least grasp some concepts
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>>52430280
wrong move m8, stay with your current major, the best one
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>>52430404
thank you
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>>52428393
Would vote for third term.

Hell, start a war just to keep him in.
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>>52430280

definitely not
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They need more nsa spies, thats why they are doing it
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This won't change a thing.
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Sounds about as likely as every child learning automotive repair.
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>>52429569

>inspire future generations to see computers as something to hack on, and not interactive TVs

you're asking normies to be autistic nerds like everyone here

i promise you it'll never happen, most people even average to above average students resent math bitterly for making them actually think

you still also have complete cunts making it an absolute chore, our entire CS course was done entirely without calculators because "hurr durr what if you have to do something in your head like an astronaut"

all that said in our equivalent high school they did eventually cave and let people use calculators because there was such overwhelming demand to just let it happen
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>>52430559
Every child should know at least a little bit about cars though. How to change oil at least
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>>52430612
>implying everyone drives cars

Enjoy your sub-urban life.
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>>52430237
I can get work in IT at 60 maybe 70k starting but even after mvoing up the ladder for 5 years thats only 100K.

If I get a job that starts at 100k I could move to 180k.

I already have a degree in philosophy that I got because it was free.
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>>52429206
Networking here.

>How come we are never effected by this
Because our shit isn't as glamorous as designing the next Flappy Bird or the next big social media site.

I'm perfectly OK with it too. The dumb normies can saturate the fuck out of the CS field while we continue to have endless job opportunities and rake in the big bucks.
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Fuck yeah, making CS a minimum wage job
Sounds great
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>>52428393
>muh diversity in STEM
>muh women in STEM
Please, get out of office already.
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>>52430591
Even hacker fags don't always gravitate to CS.

There are two types of hacker fags

The guy who can go into the binary of a kernal and modify it to boot on a VCR and the hacker that can take an apple 2 and fix all the solder and overclock it
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>>52430003
>absolute shit
that's more than like 70% of americans make. it's more than enough to live comfortably as long as you don't live in commiefornia or jew york. it's maybe not "master race 1% elite 2gud4u" but it's not bad at all.

>>52430000
>>
Barrack "Sadam Hussain" Osama bin Laden the Muslim terrorist jew is after my job
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>>52428935
So pretty much anything that isn't seen as a "easy job" that women can get into? Sounds about right.


Not that programming an operating system or something like that is easy, but fags like feminists and Obama will have you believe otherwise.
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>>52429109
We covered everything you did, but we also got how to properly acess the web, maintain security and privacy, and basic lessons on what not to do on the web (ie give out personal information). I started school (kindergarten) in 98. Though we didn't get the whole thing (basic programming), it was certainly good enough to make sure we didn't grow up to be idiots. Based Canadian education.
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>>52429704
If everyone knew economics, rich fuckers wouldn't be getting away with the shit they do, probably end up with socialism because everyone knows them that they're on even grounds and watching their backs from fuckers trying to perform a booty penetrate.
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>>52429962
This. 70% of my cs class was weeded out by the time we graduated, and only a few of us actually excelled enough to get jobs.
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>>52429319
This! The amount of people that apply to the program is insane. I had 70 people in my lecture to start the year, only 17 of those came into write the final. What's crazy is that even though they get scholarships out the ass, of the 13 girls who started, only 1 finished (she's pretty smart though, so good for her).

This idea of getting everyone to code is stupid. Most of good programmers I know are the nerdy types. When you get chads and girls (unlike the one who I spoke of earlier, as she's pretty much a nerdy dude with a vagina) in these classrooms, it makes it hard for these types of people. I know I hated the first month because of it ("hey bro, can you help me with this? Btw I'm blah blah, nice to meet you man! Oh hey, do that and I'm gonna go check on *pretty girl* over there").

Essentially, the people suited for this shit, and those who genuinely enjoy it become frustrated, only because some fucks were told cs is a good path.

Also, go look at any app store. Now count how many shit apps you see. Now multiply it by 20. That's what's going to happen if these stupid fucks get degrees in this shit. And let's face it, with how the school system is going, they'll make it so everyone gets one, even in tougher fields, like stem (because hurt feelings are bad, mkay)
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>>52431553
if everyone knew economics (which school?)
there would be less dumb poorfags who are willing to gobble the shit that manure entrepreneurs package
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>>52431641
Can't fail people for being shit at CS because that's racist/sexist/whatever.
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>>52428393
>forcing a subject suited for autists onto normies

Gee that totally contributes to the industry
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>>52429384
Goddamn what do you do? I live in asia so it's tantamount to get a college degree except that you compete with a few thousand other chinks with degrees as well for all the white collar jobs. Worse, without a job or money I can't leave this country. Blue collar jobs are taken by imported curryniggers and provide little opportunity to travel and network
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>clicking together things in a hipster web framework is computer science
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>>52429384
Good for you man. Sounds like a nice life.
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>/g/ thinks they'll teach SICP
It will be something very basic and elementary
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>>52431607
Can confirmed, there were only 20 of us for the S in STEM upon graduation. There were SO MANY liberal arts and other meme-tier degrees. It was embarrassing, but so hilarious at the same time.
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>>52428393
meaningless buzzwords.

American education is so shit it will never work. I mean from elementary to high school. It's so fucking shit. One of the worst in the world.
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>>52432118
this t︂b︂︂h
you're not gonna make it as a programmer if you can barely do algebra and read at a 4th grade level, which is the sort of person the clapistan education system produces
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>>52432082
SICP is very basic and elementary

It's a CS101 text
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>>52428393
Translation:

President Obama to make Email IDs with real names compulsory for small children, will help datamine them after they turn older.
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>>52431553
>end up with socialism

more like capitalism, if erryone was educated about shit the gubmint does
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>>52428714
Fuck yes, that means there's money to be made off of them.
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>>52429109
I had that in elementary school + some basic "programming" in logo
In high school I had HTML, Pascal and some simple Assembly
There were no tests, just projects to do at home so most people bought theirs and still don't know anything.
Not US&A btw.
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>>52433696
CS101 for MIT which is not representative of the abilities of freshmen everywhere or the general population of students (or professionals, for that matter)

For normal schools that's junior level.
>>
kekd
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>>52428393
They have to get good at math first. Americans score worse in math than most other countries.
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>>52434657
Junior in HS, maybe. CS101 at MIT and other big schools has been terribly dumbed down over the last decades for minorities and wymen because muh_inclusive and quotas.
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>>52436684
That should be fine as long as there are higher level courses to teach higher level lessons.
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>>52436715
They're are, and very few of the 'target audience' ever reach the grad level. By then the money's already spent and most of them have moved on anyways.

I suppose it's vaguely a 2-way win though, MIT and the others can artificially prop up they're numbers (as long as no one digs too deeply), and the undergrads can put MIT on they're CVs.

Not sure what the broader cost to the culture is at large. I expect it's not a good thing though.
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