*BSD General Thread, discuss BSDs.
IRC: irc.rizon.net #baot
News: http://freebsdnews.net http://undeadly.org
Linux user curious about BSD? Ask questions here and get answers.
I haven't made the jump to OpenBSD yet, but I do use a lot of their software. I respect that they try making their code as clean and readable as possible, Linux guys should be taking notes.
I installed FreeBSD in a VM but when I ran "pkg search whatever" it never gave any output. "pkg update" says all repos are up to date but "pkg install perl" says there is no perl in the repo...
that`s been my experience as well. i ditched linux last year for bsd. my nas runs freebsd cause zfs but my router / mail / web / laptops / desktop all run openbsd. i tried freebsd for a bit as a daily driver but it never lasted long. openbsd just seems cleaner more intuitive and things 'just work'. i don`t have to mess with sysctls and rebooting to get suspending to work. when i close my lid it sleeps no config needed. all the fn keys work. it`s like the people who write the os actually use it and develop on it instead of doing all their work on a mac in a vm. (looking at you net and free) i also like that the base install actually comes with useful things. when i do an install i don`t have to spend 30 minutes installing packages, i can just copy my dot files over and pkg_add the couple of apps i need.
Dragonfly was originally designed as an improvement to FreeBSD to improve CPU core utilization. Basically each core has its own scheduler and is given exclusive access to its own cache. This reduces the amount of duplicate information in the caches which allows them to handle more actual work(in theory).
FreeBSD devs never really saw a need for these changes so they backed away from it so Dragonfly was made as a separate fork
ports on openbsd work basically the same as freebsd as that is what it is based on. i don`t use ports though because one i don`t have a need to customize the apps i need and two openbsd`s binary package system is much more convenient. openbsd`s pkg_* tools are quite powerful and many different packages can be installed from different flavors that have different compile options.
as far as performance the only area i`ve ever noticed it being slower is watching html5 vids in firefox which to me is no big deal as i prefer to stream with mpv or watch later with youtube-dl.
most of the performance myths around openbsd are spread by people who have either never used it or people or people with very specific and extreme demands.
nice way to put it. dragonflybsd is much like openbsd in that it was founded by someone who was kicked out of the project by the rest of the team. Matt Dillon had a very different approach to the implementation of smp support than the rest of the dev team and the arguments over this led to him being booted. he then took his ideas forked the freebsd code and started dragonflybsd. besides the smp work he`s also done some friggin amazing work in creating the hammer filesystem.
yes and no. dragonfly has the best support for intel graphics out of all the bsd`s with initial skylake support just added. openbsd supports up to broadwell while freebsd doesn`t even have haswell support yet. dragonfly has decent power management but no support for suspend resume which is a deal breaker for me. imo openbsd does the best on laptops out of any of them regarding hardware support and things just working out of the box. freebsd can work well too if your hardware is supported and you`re willing to do some tweaking.
does Darwin BSD count? or is this strictly NetBSD, FreeBSD, OpenBSD?
um what's wrong with my fonts? It only happens on certain pages like 4chan but looks fine in the firefox UI and desktop
Have managed to install it on a Dell Latitude E6420, had to change SATA Operation in BIOS from RAID to AHCI.
It starts with a bare Xorg, I tried to install XFCE with #pkg_add xfce and rebooting but Xorg is still bare, what did I forget?
Thanks, that did it!
Also disabled auto Xorg start by changing
-window decorations are missing
-my panel won't expand despite adding separators and ticking extend
-my background is..odd, how do I change it to a solid color?
>rip me apart /bsd/
To answer your question BSDs have pretty high compatibility with software designed for unix-likes including linux. As long as the software doesn't rely on functionality from the linux kernel itself it will generally run after recompiling.
FreeBSD and NetBSD can run many linux binaries directly with no recompilation at all because they have a linux compatibility layer built in.
OpenBSD may require recompilation. I have no idea what state their linux compatibility is in.
I don't know if Dragonfly has linux compatibility but after recompilation stuff should generally work anyway.
Seems to only exist on i386 though?
You misunderstand its about having proper hardware support so your not running everything off your CPU. Running x without hardware acceleration sucks.
Also freeBSD supports wine and can run Linux binaries at native speed through their Linux comparability abi. Last time I used wine on feeebsd I was able to run sc2 just as well as on Linux.
Quite the contrary no jimmies were rustled in the making of that post, my bad if it seemed otherwise. This has been the nicest thread I've seen on g in fucking ages hopefully it'll stay that way
Used to be a BSD user, just dabble with it anymore. My day job is as a Linux admin, so I tend to stick with that. BSD is good stuff though. Never tried dragonfly though.
386BSD started it I think, then had a major rewite for a copyright claim. Net forked off of that, then Free did.
Free has always focused on speed and usability.
Net always focused on clean, portable code.
Open forked off of Net, to focus more on security.
They all share liberally with each other, in terms of ideas, code, drivers and developers. While the kernels and binary formats may differ from BSD to BSD, there is more in common with BSD projects and developers, than between Ubuntu and Fedora projects and developers.
Also fuck Darwin.
Yep pretty much all of the current free *BSDs come from 386BSD. Free and Net were both started at about the same time by two different groups of disgruntled 386BSD devs with different complaints about how 386's development was being handled.
>tfw OpenBSD mail server and SmartOS container/VM host
bhyve on head now supports windows
Got it up and running and hopefully got all the sluggish debug options out of head.
But I get panics when I set any pci dev to ppt for future passthrough, so no usb passthrough for me just yet.
Still. beats the hell out of virtualbox.
My entire OpenSMTPd config file is less than 40 lines counting comments and whitespace. As long as you have aliases and stuff already set up for your other MTA it takes less than half an hour to get a working OpenSMTPd configuration with TLS-only submission on 587.
They have a number of exploit mitigations on by default that other OS vendors don't due to performance or backwards compatibility concerns.
They're also very strict about the quality of code that goes into the project and they do regular audits of the entire tree.
OpenBSD has a policy of secure by default. The OS ships with almost nothing enabled by default so its incredibly difficult to mess with out of the box. When you configure it you remove some of that security but that is not the end of the security. OpenBSD also ships with tons of mitigations against common exploits. Badly written software will have a tendency to crash on OpenBSD as opposed to failing silently and staying up to be used by an exploit. OpenBSD's base system is very minimalistic on purpose. The devs have kept all of the programs very small, easy to read, and have documented their limits and bugs in the man pages. The applications in the base have also been limited through privilege separation, keeping applications that do not need root privileges away from root privileges. Recently OpenBSD devs have also added the pledge() system which allows them to restrict programs only to specific system calls limiting their scope significantly in the event they are used for malicious purposes.
They release once every six months, on November 1 and may 1. Each release is supported for one year. In that time they make security patches available.
Packages are built once per release from ports and there is only the one repo per release. If there is some software you want that isn't in the repo you can follow the ports FAQ to make a port and submit it for inclusion so in that sense has similarities to what your used To in aur.
If you want to follow the bleeding edge you can track -current, there are snapshots available every few days and the packages are updated rather frequently. As -current is where all the development is happening be warned that you might experience some breakage or packages being out of sync and are expected to read the -current errata and be able deal with minor breakage issues and are also encouraged to send bug reports in if you find something clearly broken. All that said -current is very very solid and these issues happen infrequently. -current is what the developers run after all and if something does break it is often fixed just as quickly.
Personally the six month release cycle is something I really like about OpenBSD. Update twice a year, apply the few security errata in between, use all the extra free time not spent fixing what pacman broke today doing something fun or productive.
I wrote a specs script for OpenBSD. Right now all I can really say is it works for me#! /bin/sh
echo "Manufacturer:\t $(sysctl -n hw.vendor)"
# Device model
echo "Model:\t\t $(sysctl -n hw.product)"
# CPU model & clock
echo "CPU:\t\t $(sysctl -n hw.model)" | sed 's/CPU //g;s/(TM)//g;s/(R)//g;s/@.*//g'
# CPU temp
echo "CPU temp:\t $(sysctl -n hw.sensors.cpu0.temp0)" | sed 's/'.00'//g'
# Total RAM (megabytes)
#dc -e '[RAM: ]n'$(sysctl -n hw.physmem)d1048576/n'[MiB]p'
echo "RAM:\t\t $(dc -e ''$(sysctl -n hw.physmem)d1048576/n'[MiB]p')"
echo "OS:\t\t $(uname -srm)"
echo "Uptime:\t\t $(uptime | sed ';s/,.*//;s/^.*up //;')"
echo "Packages:\t $(pkg_info | wc -l | sed 's/[^0-9]*//g')"
echo "Shell:\t\t" $SHELL | sed 's#/bin/##g'
I'm curious too. I have some experience with Linux and would like to use it on my Windows 8 netbook, but Linux rapes the battery.
Even when tweaking it the life is still like 25% less than that of Windows. Starting to wish I got a Chromebook for better Linux support.
I don't mind needing to familiarise myself with *BSD if it means I get god lifespan outside of win8
FreeBSD will have significantly worse battery life than Linux on any laptop. OpenBSD with apmd turned on gets pretty close to Linux battery life, maybe a bit more when you consider you don't need to run a DE to get the OS's full battery management stack. Also, this is part of why /g/entoomen praise thinkpads - the battery life is wicked good under Linux with tlp.
That's not what SmartOS is for. Use OpenIndiana if you want an Illumos desktop. OmniOS is for if you just want one Illumos server on bare metal.
How does dragonfly hammer filesystem compare to zfs?
i'm heavily considering switching over now - i'm reading over the faq, so i'll probably find it out anyways, but does it play well with i3, ncmpcpp, etc.? what are some of the big differences/challenges i'll face when migrating over?
Your typical /g/entooman workflow is 100% pre-packaged. Tiling wms, mpd+ncmpcpp, mpv, and Firefox are all there. The biggest thing is that ifconfig(8) actually understands wifi so you can just go$ ifconfig wlanevicegoeshere up nwid YOURSSID wpakey YOURPASSPHRASE && dhclient wlandevicegoeshere" to connect. You can make little shell scripts for the wifi networks you connect to.
what is the real advantage over linux? i read that they are slow (phoronix/open banchmark) and there's no much apps compatible with it. I will install freebsd on a desktop to make seeding server. But every one in my job hate freebsd over linux. Please .... why i should try freebsd?
Maybe you want something that has guaranteed feature stability and support for a few years as opposed to the linux kernel which is in a constant state of change. Although a distro like debian stable might offer similar stability.
BSDs are heavy into configuration through plaintext files maybe you prefer it done that way for simplicity.
Workstation and server features like jails, Dtrace, and ZFS.
I guess curiosity is always a factor with these things.
I don't know if there's really a reason for a home user to switch to freebsd over linux. Use whatever you're comfortable with really.
Generally things are pretty similar on a BSD but commands may behave differently than you expect coming from linux. Some commands may not be available or have fewer switches. On BSDs vi is vi not vim.
If the software uses a GPL license the BSDs will never include it in the base install so you'll have to download those post-install. They have to protect their license.
BSDs do not use bash by default you have to download and install it yourself. Using bash or other external shells for the root user is discouraged. It can break the system worst case.
As a personal anecdote the first time i tried dd-ing freebsd 10.2 iso to a usb drive it didn't work 100% for some reason. Like it looked like it was ok and the freebsd bootscreen came up but it kept failing with cryptic errors that made no sense. So I tried dd-ing the same iso to same usb again and that time it worked perfectly. So idk wtf happened the first time.
yea theres i3 mpd/ncmpcpp and such. there`s some ~9k packages for amd64 so near all the things you expect to be there will and they will work just the same. there is no flash support on openbsd (a plus in my book) so that might be an issue if you need it. otherwise it`s just learning about the tools used to run the system. i can`t stress it enough too that the man pages in openbsd are extremely useful. this is true of all the bsd`s but open takes the lead here. apropos (8) will be a good friend.
also check out stable.mtier.org you can use their openup script to get binary updates for security errata as well as security updates on packages. it`s an unofficial service but they employ multiple openbsd devs.
hammerfs and zfs are both advanced next gen filesystems and both support alot of the same features, biggest difference is that hammer is just a filesystem where zfs is a filesystem + lvm in one.
some things hammer supports:
fine grained history
psudeo filesystems (pfs)
the last two are what have me really excited about hammer. in concept they are similar to zfs datasets but you can do some unique things with them. you can designate a pfs as a master or slave and mirror the contents from a master to a slave(s).
example: i have 2 drives with hammerfs on them mounted to /data/master /data/slave i could run
# hammer mirror-stream /data/master /data/slave
and hammer would continuously stream the contents of master to slave.
if i got a third disk at /data/slave2 i could
# hammer mirror-stream /data/master /data/slave2
to have /data/master stream to 2 disks. now /data/master is real important and i don`t want all its backups on one machine but i have another machine running dragonfly on the network so i could
# hammer mirror-stream /data/master user@remote /data/remoteslave
to have it stream through ssh to another machine.
Does openbsd have regular package updates as they come out or do you only upgrade the base system with each new release?
don`t believe what you read about *bsd over at phoronix. that site is run by a moron who has an agenda to promote linux and a history of running dubious benchmarks to skew results to match.
speaking about freebsd specifically they have some 25,000 pagkages available which is a far cry from no apps. as for speed, there is a reason netflix uses freebsd to deliver their content not linux and that is speed and stability
netflix breaking 65 Gbits/sec from one machine
A single socket server, with a high end Xeon E5 processor and a dual ported Chelsio T580 (2x 40 Gbps ports) set a netflix record pushing over 65 Gbps of traffic from a single machine
The videos were being pushed from SSDs and some new high end NVMe devices
The previous record at Netflix was 52 Gbps from a single machine, but only with very experimental settings. The current work is under much more typical settings
By the end of that night, traffic surged to over 70 Gbps
Only about 10-15% of that traffic was encrypted with the in-kernel TLS engine that Netflix has been working on with John-Mark Gurney
It was reported that the machine was only using about 65% cpu, and had plenty of head room
If I remember the discussion correctly, there were about 60,000 streams running off the machine
I believe the packages not in the base can be updated whenever they become available, it's up to the package maintainers to provide new releases though. The base itself receives an upgrade every six months with security patches in between. If you want to stay very close to upstream you can also use the ports system.
packages for releases follow the same schedule of once every six months so you`d upgrade the os then upgrade your packages.
if you want something more current you can follow -current http://openbsd.net/faq/current.html to get the bleeding edge os updates and packages.
to be more clear both ports and packages are 'frozen' to match their release. the 5.8 packages and ports are the same today as when 5.8 was released using ports will not get you newer packages, that is only possible by following -current and using -current packages or ports.
the official way is to follow the errata for your release. http://openbsd.net/errata58.html
download the source diff apply and recompile. note your not recompiling the whole os just the offending part ie if there is an errata for ls(1) you`d patch and recompine ls.
as i mentioned earlier M:Tier stable.mtier.org offers a script called openup which can check your system and apply precompiled binary updates for both the base system as well as any packages you have installed. this method is simple and automatic you just run (as root)
# sh openup
and it will do it`s thing. while this method is unofficial mtier employs actual openbsd devs who run the service and this is the method i use. you can also run it from cron with the -c flag and it will check and mail you if there are updates to apply.
for reference heres the layout i use for my desktop / laptops. at home all my media is on my fileserver and my laptop boots off an msata drive and i have an extra drive to store media on. my desktop and laptops use softraid crypto also.
Is a separate partition for X11 needed? I'm not really going to use this for anything serious so I'm probably just going to make a single /usr directory like >>52280579 and allocate most of the space to it
there are times when you wanna use a more traditional partition layout but for a desktop or vm its not as important. you should keep /tmp as a seperate partition as it gets mounted with different options than /. my disklabel doesnt show it because i use mount_tmpfs(8) to make a 4gb memory disk instead.
i'm try to install openBSD from a USB, all i get is a blinking cursor
i did the# dd if=install58.fs of=/dev/rsdbc bs=1Mbut when i go to boot from the usb, i just get a blinking cursor
do i need to reformat my usb or something?
what os are you doing this from, linux? i might be wrong but i don`t thing linux differentiates from raw and cooked devices so you might have just written to a file rsdbc in /dev
re0 is your gigabit ethernet interface. probably trying to get a DHCP lease.
The network interface re0 is not connected, may or may not be a problem.
That is before it does any actual dhcp, when there is no connected cable (or no associated AP for wlan).
The filesystem stuff, I went on ahead anyways though since I just want to make sure I can actually progress with the install.
I'm installing from a USB, by the way.
Right now, it's asking for location of sets, and I don't think I can give them that because I don't have internet set up as I'm wireless.
So I restarted, tried autoinstall and now I'm at the console.
the one thing that aggravates the FUCK outta me about Free/Net/OpenBSD installers is that I can't partition and mount more than one drive during installation. I usually have two drives in my machines and under Linux I set them up as a drive for /home and a drive for everything else. Can't do this during the BSD installation though IIRC I was able to manage this with FreeBSD 4.0 many years ago, I can't do it now.
WTF is this autism???!!!
did you use the auto partition layout in the installer? i forget the exact logic it uses but on large disks there is often some unused space. iirc it assigns partition size based on a certain percentage up to a certain size. so /usr/local might be 20% or up to 10G in size. it can be a pain on modern systems but this same installer has to work on alot of old legacy systems.
if you want all that space on home you can just backup /home somewhere unmount and use disklabel(8) to change the size of the partition assigned to /home, run newfs(8) on the partition remount and copy your data back. or just add a new partition with disklabel(8) and mount it to /storage or something
nevermind >>52282661 then.
the autoinstall is for scripted installs so don`t use that. go back through a normal install at the filesystem step you can choose iirc either auto, suggested, or custom layout. select suggested and change /home to the size you want.
when it asks for the location of the sets it defaults to http but just type in disk instead and youll get asked what disk the sets are on. ? will give you info about the disks so you can be sure to choose the right one. hit enter and install the sets and thatll be it.