What's a cheaper alternative to building a NAS RAID-Z1?

>>52238349
>40TB
sure
>64GB ram
wtf

>raid-z
fuck off

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>>52238349
>RAID-Z1

Dissing RAID-Z is the newest meme.

>>52238401
>>52238433
What's wrong with it

>>52238978
They don't know.

>>52238349
I hope they lose all their data

L I N U S
I
N
U
S

>>52238978
having one redundant disk out of ten, you might as well not have it, it's basically a retarded setup that's all but guaranteed to lose another disk and thus everything if they ever need to resilver after a drive failure, which btw will take an insanely long time with 4TB drives.

>>52239111
unless raid-z is different in regards to unrecoverable read errors, rebuilding that array would be almost a mathematical impossiblity

>>52239111
Sometimes you just want as much bang for your buck as possible, the chances of a second drive failing within a few hours of your first failure is pretty minimal.

raid 5 still has a place.

>>52238349
No dedicated raid card
Not raid 6
>>trash

>>52239193
>would be almost a mathematical impossiblity
If the bit read error rates were actually accurate, as in properly working HDDs actually failed to read as often as that, you wouldn't even be able to read the data on a 100% functional 3TB HDD like 5 times.

>>52239277
>No dedicated raid card
They don't protect against bit rot any more than soft RAID, but if the card fails your data can be fucked if you don't have the exact same card as a spare.

Rather than spending money on a RAID card to avoid the write hole, I'd rather spend the money on an UPS for the entire server and run software RAID. That way the server can shut down the array and entire OS properly and everything is protected, not just the RAID controller's cache.

>>52239419
Software raid is irrelevent for anything beyond teenagers playing with their first computer.

You cant change your os choice in software raid.Even then your new distro might not support the same version or even them, the same software raid.

Dedicated raid cards arent even expensive.

I've had the same 20tb raid-6 for the past 10 years and only had 2 drives fail, at different times.I woke up boom everything nice and cozy rma'd the drive and went on like nothing happened.
Now with your software raid you have to be IN your os to do anything,if you lose ac power/ and/or ups power(yes you can have extended downtime in major cities rarely) you're sitting on your dick.
Plus BBU allows better caching then you can ever expect on software.

>>52239419
>They don't protect against bit rot any more than soft RAID
But they do, they have patrol reads which will find read problems before they cause data loss.
>Exact same card as a spare
Wrong again, hardware RAID has a fairly standardized metadata format (DDF), so as long as the new card supports the RAID level and stripe size of the array, it can import the array. I haven't tried jumping to a different manufacturer but I've used the same array on 3 different LSI cards and it's worked fine.
>Rather than spending money on a RAID card to avoid the write hole, I'd rather spend the money on an UPS for the entire server and run software RAID
Does nothing if the problem is an OS-level crash, or a problem with the PSU or other part causes the system to power off unexpectedly.
Having both a UPS and RAID card is best, of course.

RAID ISN'T A BACKUP SOLUTION
IF THE RAID IS FUCKED, YOU RESTORE IT FROM BACKUP
Fucking babies.

>>52240102
RAID IS A HOT SWAP LIVE BACKUP SOLUTION
YOU HAVE A NEW DRIVE BACKING UP THE DRIVE THAT FAILED.
NOW IF YOU MEAN SOFTWARE WISE THEN YES IT IS NOT A BACKUP SOLUTION.
RAID IS A HARDWARE BACKUP SOLUTION

>>52240159
>RAID IS A HARDWARE BACKUP SOLUTION
Nope, its a redundancy/uptime solution, never a backup solution.

>>52240159
"Failover" would be a more precise term than backup here.

>>52240187
it is literally replacing the parity and data that was on the drive that failed.
Yes it is backing up,but not your data,it dosent care about your data.Based raid array only cares that it has full parity on its entire life.that why it has 1+ drives sitting in its asshole waiting for something to happen.
So yes it is a hardware backup.

>>52239219
I go for RAID 6, no hot spare.

>>52238349
Building a more reasonable box. Ceph is a pig, and zfs is not known to be. Even for ceph they only recommend 1GB of RAM port TB of raw storage, so your at overkill there, but RAM is cheap enough I guess.

For the most part, a RAID z box will have the same needs as a software RAID box with add many drives, and you can't really go cheaper.

>>52240159
>>52240224
No. It's really not. RAID is about reliable access to data first, speed second, backup never.

Also, from a straight recovery standpoint, software RAID is superior.

>>52240458
Nope.

>>52240159
Raid is not a backup solution.
Raid adds additional performance and convenience for replacing failed drives.

Critical data needs to be backed up. That means having at least one copy offsite to protect against fire and theft. Raid does not achieve an offsite backup, because it's not a backup it's just a redundancy.

Hardware raid is better if it has a battery backup to cache writes, so in the case of a power failure or unplanned shutdown during writes the data will not be corrupted. It still does not make it a backup solution because if the hardware was stolen, the data would be unrecoverable.

>>52240583
>hardware was stolen, the data would be unrecoverable.
Im not sure what your burglary rates are in your shithole.But saying that is the same as claiming a nuke might land on YOU AND your tape offsite backup array.
Its just retarded.

Raid takes a blank unpartitioned harddrive.
Imports it in to the raid.
it then writes parity data and your data to it.
this is the definition of a backup
Something that was there is lost,and now you are importing a new drive and writing it back on to it.
It is a hardware backup solution.

>>52238349
WHAT CASE

>>52240583
you're picking nits over the semantics of backing up. if you ask people what icloud and dropbox and whatnot are for, they understand that they use that stuff for the "backing up" that you're talking about: the kind of off-site version control that's so off-site that you can't throw a rock real hard and wang the computer holding the data.

So why are you guys getting all semantically upset about people also using the word "backup" to refer to ensuring continued operation through a hardware failure? is it that the word's getting overloaded? shit happens. deal with it.

>>52238349
Stop concentrating on souless electronics and concentrate on marriage and creating a family you reckless son of a bitch

>>52240835
>literally willingly allowing other humans of leech off your hard work
lol no

>>52240835
>/g/ - Technology

>>52240679
Ahahaha holy snit this generation is literally retarded.
Theft, Sabotage, Fires don't happen.

You don't have any critical data to lose or protect. You also don't understand that disasters happen. For example: you don't put on a seat-belt because you are planning to crash into someone. You put a seat-belt on as a safety precaution so that if something terrible happens you have less of a chance of getting FUCKED. Or you are an idiot and don't wear a seat-belt under the delusion it makes you look cool.

Is this a new generation thing? Backups are lame and you need to be an edgelord who speeds without a seat-belt on and runs 24 disks in raid 0 with critical production data.

>>52240702
Raid was never created or intended to be a backup solution.
RAID is an acronym that stands for Redundant array of independent disks.
You should attempt to educate yourself between the difference of a redundancy and a backup. They have different purposes.

>>52239604
Hardware RAID is inferior to ZFS software based RAID, why would I use it?

>Software raid is irrelevent for anything beyond teenagers playing with their first computer.
http://www.rsync.net/products/zfsintro.html
Big players there for some teenagers.

>>52240468
So how do I restore the files from my disk if I delete them?

>>52240993
You restore them from your backup duh..... wait a minute, how can it be a backup if every write/delete you do effects the backup? This seems more like.... a redundancy than a backup.

Nope HARDWARE RAID IS A BACKUP SOLUTION OF THE FUTURE. THE PARITY BITS ARE MAGIC AND ARE DISTRIBUTED ON THE HARD DISKS PLATTERS THAT SPIN AT 7200 RPM. I KNOW HOW TECHNOLOGY WORKS!

>>52239604
those inexpensive dedicated raid cards use software raid on their chips, but im sure you realized that

the majority of people are using software raid now

>>52240993
shadow copies

>>52241148
But I disabled them because I have RAID, how do I restore from the RAID?

>>52240930
>Redundant array of independent disks.
>RAID0
>Redundant
ayy
lmao

>>52241191
Reading comprehension and critical thinking skills.
AYYYYYYYYYYY. rolf.

>>52241166
thats not how it works

>>52240930
>generation
Im most likely older then you faggot

I put my seat belt on cause if the po po sees me without it thats a $500 fine.If a different po po 200 ft down the road sees me its another $500 fine.etc etc etc

>RAID is an acronym that stands for Redundant array of independent disks.
Um no it's redundant arrays of Inexpensive disks.Hence jbod.

>>52240993
>>52241061
IF THE HARDDRIVE FAILED YOU HAVE YOUR HOT SWAP AND IT THEN BACKUPS YOUR DATA.
HENCE HARDWARE SOLUTION

If you're a retard and delete your 500 thesis and the tmp copy.You whip out your daily differential backup and you copy it like nothing went ont.
THIS IS A SOFTWARE BACKUP SOLUTION

>>52240947
That's a pretty small customer list compared to the likes of other backup companies.
Plus that's a backup provider, as long as they don't lose me data I couldn't care less what technologies they use to store the data

>>52241074
Software raid=within your operating system
hardware raid=dedicated external card from your motherboard,that has software on it to manage the raid array.
You cant equate them

>>52240930
thanks for missing the point in the most intensely autistic way imaginable.

>>52241450
Isn't it fun watching this guy sperg out?
Sip'n my whisky this whole time

>>52240835
>>>/pol/

Now fuck off

Let's say I want to build a 20B array, what would I go with for maximum comfy? I was thinking of going an easy way with 7 4TB drives on RAID6.

>>52241556
http://www.servethehome.com/raid-calculator/

>>52240930
BABY COME BACK.
YOU CAN BLAME IT ALL ON MEEEEEE

>>52240695
I would like to know this as well

>RAID-Z1

Gee, lets just try out random shit and have no idea how to properly do anything.. what could possibly go wrong ?

I wonder what disaster is going to visit them next

>Hey guise, we had a fire/flood and we lots ALL our data- again!

>10 drives
>1 disk for parity
Just fuck my shit up.

>>52238349
yo is this jake-senpai?

>>52239219
welp, you don't work in the industry do you.

>>52240372
>I go for RAID 6, no hot spare.
NO,
RAID 10 OR GTFO

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>>52240159
>RAID IS A HOT SWAP LIVE BACKUP SOLUTION
This is amazing bait or clueless poster.