>>45597868 OP here. I have an internship at a company right now working with Java (Eclipse Plugin Development) and I am a little frustrated that my project-manager is only interested in "visible" results. You can spend 2 weeks optimizing your code, but when at the end there are little visible changes from the user perspective, you won't get any credit at all. Meanwhile front-end guys moving a <div> into a better looking position just have to open the browser and show the result. This is the reason I want to work in front end.
>$1500 rent for 1 bedroom to get a 1 hour commute to work every morning
>>45597922 >OP here. I have an internship at a company right now working with Java (Eclipse Plugin Development) and I am a little frustrated that my project-manager is only interested in "visible" results. You can spend 2 weeks optimizing your code, but when at the end there are little visible changes from the user perspective, you won't get any credit at all. Meanwhile front-end guys moving a <div> into a better looking position just have to open the browser and show the result. >This is the reason I want to work in front end.
full stack developers usually make the most money and get most of the bitches
>>45597828 Full time webdev using all of those here:
It is such a wild industry. It ranges from working in someone's basement for less than minimum wage to working in some of the top corporations in the world. If you know more specific or niche technologies you can shorten that gap and get somewhere really good, but knowing general webdev technologies can make you fairly versatile.
I am a Jr. Dev at a fairly small Web dev company that is now focusing on making web apps for small companies. 37k CAD/year isn't bad and coming out of college and in a city where i bank about 1/3 of that is pretty good.
>>45597992 >i listed cities in which 65k is not a livable wage
That's not what I asked though. I asked where do you live where you make 65k that isnt a livable wage? I don't know of a single college-level job in any of those cities that pays under livable wage. Fuck off with your hypotheticals
>>45597922 Try working for a company where every single minute you work has to be accounted for, and more than 10 minutes off on something starts to get some big questions asked. No time allowed for optimization, front end or back end. You simply get things done on time, shitty or now.
>>45597828 JS: learn Angular.js, it's the most mature client-side framework out there right now (it pays really well, too). You'll also need to at least have done a couple Todo List apps once in your life. Be acquainted with Backbone, Underscore, know how to write a jQuery plugin, tweak a carousel/slider's behavior, know how to a use the prototype. Ionic (an Angular mobile framework built on Cordova) is pretty cool. You might also want to look into Node.js, at least a build tool.
HTML: mess around with HTML5 elements. There are a lot of new
types, which are being leveraged by mobile development frameworks.
CSS: Learn responsive design and the ways you can use CSS3 to enhance UI. Bootstrap is becoming a thing of the past, but it's always good to know what .col-md-6 means when you're working on BS stuff. Let me save you months of bullshit: learn SASS.
PHP: Learn how servers and APIs work. This means you'll need to learn Apache or Nginx. Set up a few LAMP stacks on Digital Ocean or some cheap hosting. Learn that shit by heart, it's what separates the pros from the (ever growing population) amateurs. Be able to spin up a REST API with your tool of choice. Know MVC. PHP isn't going anywhere (Composer is pretty slick), but it's rare to hear about those developers making serious coin. .NET is where the money is, and you'll keep your sanity when C# saves you from your own bad habits. You can also use C# for other stuff. LINQ is a thing of beauty.
Getting a job isn't hard: the bar of entry is on the floor for most tech cities.
Web development isn't just a job, it's a lifestyle.
>>45598031 >Not getting up and going for a walk outside and a coffee. >Not dicking around on 4chan and Youtube in the server room. >Not segregating yourself from the everyday staff network, bypassing the sonicwall entirely and going straight to the fibre line.
Being a codemonkey sounds like absolute shit, to the point where I've even stood up for you fags before. Someone comes to me requesting "a little change" on one of our websites, they often don't realize how much work you guys are going to have to do.
>>45598083 Of everything on that image, the worse isn't even listed: Business graduates. Worse than project managers. Had one once that listed a task to be done as 'Add provinces'. The work was expected to take 5 minutes, but required extensive reworking of the whole system. 20 hours later, they are saying 'wtf, why did it take so long?' meanwhile it required changing a lot of stuff, and event that stuff was legacy because the manager refused to put any budget into cleaning up code.
>>45598127 Never leave that place, sounds like you have it made. All of our staff honestly think you guys sit there dragging and dropping, and bucket filling things as if you developed in mspaint.
>>45598169 Yep. The amount of "Hey, can we just move this over here", even after weeks of design confirmation and signatures on print-outs before it even touched the developers desk, never ceases to amaze me.
>>45598138 As someone who lives not in Toronto but nearby, these start ups are because the province is pushing greatly for 'entrepreneurs'. They want as many young people to make businesses as possible, especially out of college/university with access to what was only taught in school. With programs like MSDNAA we get .NET shoved down our throats through school. Considering these kind of development environments cost most money, they take the budget of any startup.
>>45598169 I would have sarcastically said I took so long because I purposefully wasted my time for literally no reason only to upset my superiors
>>45598208 >but hipster startup-people can't write ASP.NET applications on their Macs.
Which is exactly why hipster fags don't write ASP .NET applications? Only sex demons and cool kids write C#
>>45598223 >Considering these kind of development environments cost most money, they take the budget of any startup.
The guy I work for is a 28 year old millionaire. He made his millions by developing a web application used by multiple hospitals and organizations in the health sector in ASP .NET. He started with nothing and now has 15 full-time employees
/g/, what can I do to convince my boss that SharePoint work is not worth pursuing? Keep in mind we've already lost our asses off on 4 previous SharePoint projects in the last 2 years and we don't have the manpower to maintain our own goddamn SharePoint intranet.
>>45598108 If you want to work at a startup, go right ahead. Stress becomes a reality in this industry, those places will work you till you figure out you want a real life. The beer kegs in-house are to make sure you're there all night.
There are better options. Corporate work can be a good challenge to build your skillset, agencies are a good option if you're looking for short-term work and maybe doing PSD-to-HTML conversions. For me, contract work is where it's at: name your own rates and get shit done on your own terms. Avoid direct client stuff unless they know exactly what they want and have a lot of money to throw around.
Work those LinkedIn profiles and you'll be swimming in job offers. Make sure you have a GitHub account. Learn Git if you plan to work with teams and want to preserve your code. Be acquainted with the new hotness buzzwords and know what's going on in the industry.
>>45598314 But everyone keeps insisting there's tons of money in SharePoint since lots of our mega million oil&gas scada customers use it. Surely they'd part with some money for us to monkey around on their SharePoint sites!?
>>45598341 Everyone is still figuring out exactly what that means for the industry. C# is an extremely nice language, but Microsoft has quite a ways to go before they earn back the greater software community's trust
>>45598075 Angular makes shit so much easier than using plain JS/jQuery it's not even funny. Even if it is used in less places, finding a place that does use it would be worth the effort for your sanity.
Of course, my only front end experience is with plain JS/jQuery/Angular.
I was hired out of college as a SharePoint developer without having any experience. While I am now using different frameworks and languages in my daily work I have worked on a good share of projects.
SharePoint sucks. It is trying to solve too many problems and its development team has no concept of what its customers want. It only succeeds at being a company wide document storage service. Other than that, it is not worth the high amount of bugs that arise from that product.
I am a self loathing SharePoint dev and I drink to fall asleep.
>>45598494 Thanks, that's some nice concrete information. What can I use to argue against "look and feel", office 365 integration, and "intuitive" statements? The o365 part is quite useful, but onedrive blows donkey dick for file sharing.
I assume that SP was obtained from being a MS partner like most of our clients. For its use case as a document sharing service like O365, then I would say go for it. If your users understand Outlook and Facebook then they can learn about o365 very quickly. Microsoft's new direction is cloud and mobile so there's a lot of skepticism regarding the on premises solution.
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