>>45525929 >"GUI designed by actual designers" >this is supposed to be a good thing
Lel no. Anyone with a brain can design a GUI. Apple and MS change their UI completely every year or two because they have too many designers on staff doing busy work, which results in them constantly violating the most important design principle: consistency.
>>45526033 Making a good CLI requires thought and most Linux CLI commands are actually very well designed. I take it you never were around in the old days of disk-based operating systems (coughMSDOScough) when CLI tools were fucking awful.
You can use and modify all of those operating systems (bla bla Gunuu loonucks is OS Loonucks is Kurrnel hurr, we get it) to do everything you could want. Windows is a lot less customizable than OS X. To change anything significant, you need to swap some system libraries. OS X allows you to change tons of thing if you know (or just google) what .plist to edit.
But OS X is more powerful than Linux. For example: GUI automation. I can automate everything here with a combination of shell scripts for file or text-oriented tasks, AppleScript for GUI applications, and Automator for binding all together. Then I can assign it to some action, keystroke, date, folder...
The only thing you can automate in Linux without pain is command-line related things or ricing some shitty minimalist WM. GNOME and KDE don't care about implementing proper scripting support. Same for Windows. OS X wins again.
>>45525929 Lol no. My old firstgen i5/hd 3000 laptop is burning up on every linux distro. Choppy scrolling, sluggish performance, slow as fuck blender rendering, random xses crashes. Windows 8.1 runs perfectly fine for me. I gave up linux lately for the sake of having decent performance.
>>45525929 I'm not sure it's quite that black and white. While OS X isn't as flexible as Linux in terms of what you can change, it's more flexible than Windows is. Large portions of the system are FOSS and if you really want to, you can download the source, make whatever changes you desire, compile, and replace the stock system binaries with your own. This works even as deep as the kernel -- AMD hackintoshers run a custom-tweaked XNU kernel, for instance. Try doing that under Windows.
If one is patient enough Linux can be made to look pretty decent, but no matter how far it's taken there's always dumb little inconsistencies and glitches that are completely unresolvable without forking a ton of stuff and doing source-level changes. This frustrates me.
The thing that kills Windows for me is its incredibly incapable approach to window/process management and the general acceptance of mediocrity that the platform harbors.
>>45526191 >Oh yeah because you use all of them. It's not like you just pick one. Thats the definition of a clusterfuck you inbred code monkey. Good UI shouldnt force me to pick from hundreds of UI elements as if I am picking a daily driver while blindfolded and bound to a steel chair, which by the way, is what you are proposing.
>>45526225 >UI elements Yeah because you use arch and install icons individually with your DE.
No you don't. There's no sense in doing that unless you want to. The sane thing to do for a user that doesn't care about customizing that much is that you can use the default that comes with the distro. If that doesn't satisfy you you google "top desktop environments linux" or something and install that.
Easy. But you wouldn't know because you've never used a Linux OS in your life you disgusting little sophist.
>>45526188 >A good CLI is infinitely better than a bad GUI, and a good GUI is infinitely better than a bad CLI.
Sure, I can agree with that statement, But you are missing two things
1. Most CLI is bad CLI, Because it is dead easy to make a CLI, most programmers dont put in any effort to make it GOOD to the standard of the regular user, which requires a vast more amount of effort than GUI programming in order to not confuse and frustrate the non-programmer
2. Most users reject CLI wholesale for good reason (see above), and also because it requires memorization, which is bad UI design, no matter what you say. CLI is also slower to learn and understand, which is also bad UI design.
>>45526204 (if this is true) If Linux devs want main stream, UI needs to take priority over other stuff, philosophy be damned
>>45526284 >UI elements I mistyped, I meant DE, your argument is invalid >>45526264 Sure, either I choose an environment that is hostile to anyone who is not UB3R L33T PROGRAMERZZZ or just spend all of my time swapping from one DE to another, every time having to relearn the environment. some people have a life, and doesn't necessarily like options. see omnivores dilemma
>>45526307 >Because it is dead easy to make a CLI, most programmers don't put in any effort to make it GOOD to the standard of the regular user I can't remember the last time i used a bad CLI. It was probably dir on windows. You actually use merged flags like "dir /O-D" to use reverse date ordering (- = reverse, D = date /O = ordering). >which requires a vast more amount of effort than GUI programming in order to not confuse and frustrate the non-programmer Projecting much? Really I've never had anyone willing to learn something be frustrated over the lack of GUI options in anything. As soon as you show them how to make a simple bash script they see the advantages and often comment "oh so the program just does what you want when you click this? That's cool".
GUI almost never has that kind of option. Users usually only cares about the end goal. What's lacking in most CLI is good presets. For instance converting .webm in ffmpeg was a clusterfuck here on 4chan for a while because people didn't realize the default bitrate was terrible for VP8.
>>45526140 Have you seen the Flattastic theme for XFCE? It looks like OS X done right. Then you can get the Flattr icon theme and get icons that look way better than the ones in OS X. Also with a nice dock or panel, a good GTK theme, and a nice font, as well as something like Conky google now, you've made it look much more professional than OS X design.
>>45526237 UI automation is useful on OS X because it runs most popular commercial software packages and nearly all OS X applications are AppleScript capable. Because of this you can do things like wire Photoshop and Word up to bash through AppleScript, which is something that's basically impossible on other platforms.
All of the above listed can effortlessly interact with each other. The OOB automation and scriptability potential for OS X is absolutely absurd. Linux/*BSD is just as good or better in the pure CLI department but OS X takes *NIXy CLI scriptability and applies it to consumer-facing UI applications and websites too.
>>45526457 >UI automation is useful on OS X because it runs most popular commercial software packages yeah dude let me know when you can do skyrim on MAC, or autocad, cubase, or gta, anything else a person with a life has to use for work
>>45526354 Since when is Windows "consistent"? Have you seen any of the new Windows 10 stuff? Have you seen how Windows since Windows XP has mixed at least two different UI toolkit styles?
Don't pretend there isn't any learning curve to Windows. There's just no learning curve to people who have already used it.
And that picture there shows quite a few things which get in the way, like that bar at the bottom, that popup menu, and icons. There are user interfaces, and even Windows configurations, which get in the way a lot less than the example you showed there. At least make the toolbar on the bottom narrower.
Your out-of-the-box screenshot isn't a very good example or representation of anything.
>>45526354 >makes claims based on his experienced view of the OS.
Take a look at it again. There's nothing on the desktop. How does the user know what to do if they want anything but explorer/IE/WMP(?). Why is there JUST a Recycle bin on the desktop. What does that even mean? It makes no sense in terms of computing in general because there's no "recyclable" files in an OS. The most sense you can make of that is that the way you delete files on windows is by putting them in there. Which isn't actually true. The idea that it's a semi-deleted state which you have to actually delete manually to get your free space back is probably beyond most new users.
Once you're in the start menu it's the same as a dash in unity. But dash is cleaner imo because it categorizes better. Files that are indexed aren't seperate from non-indexed files on windows. The indexed files just appear first. Confusing for someone with only light knowledge of the search function.
Categorization in general is poor, everything is lobbed into All programs without any category.
I really wish Windows users would open their eyes to the reality of their OS. It's 'easy' because people already know it. It's not an exceptionally easy OS.
>>45526518 Not everyone has. You know that's wrong. There are loads of older people and younger people who buy their first computers all the time. A lot of them trying out Windows find it strange and awkward at first, just as they would with pretty much anything else. Though elderly people quite often find some lightweight Linux desktops to be more simple and intuitive and get in the way a lot less for simple web browsing and stuff.
>>45526467 Since OS X came out, the Apple menu has been repurposed from being a launcher to being a center for system configuration and utilities. This makes a lot of sense simply because unlike Windows, the OS X applications folder is filled with actual programs instead of fleets of shortcut files, meaning that you can just drop it in your dock to get an effective launcher.
>>45526495 What are you on about? AutoCAD and Cubase both have native OS X versions. Skyrim and GTA V indeed do not run natively on OS X but work fine through WINE. If anything it seems more and more that Windows' only saving grace is gaming.
>>45526602 A large percentage of the developed world may have used Windows, but don't forget that most of the world is undeveloped. There are incredibly large swaths of people whose first contact with computers and the internet come in the form of smartphones and tablets.
>>45526602 No they haven't. Not everyone uses computers. Loads of people who even have used Windows don't have a clue what Windows is or what any of the strange buttons and icons outside of their web browser are, or even inside it.
>>45526558 These are truly some of the most shitty arguments I've seen discussing UI. >You have to teach them Applies for anything. "Intuitive" means there's prior knowledge that's applicable. And Linux in general certainly doesn't fail in this. >if linux wants users, it needs to overcome UI inertia Again with the stupid "linux doesn't have UI" bs. Windows doesn't have any UI that makes sense beyond the very very simplest of tasks. Starting an application. Opening a file. All of this stuff all linux DE's have. If you want to index a path for your own Windows Search (in start menu) convenience you add it to the search index. You can't add a single file/executable/shortcut in any way. It's mindblowingly bad. >CLI is RTFM in program form. Don't disagree with this. But stop equating Linux with CLI. It's plain retarded and if you say that IRL some neck-beard will smack you. Probably even Windows bound sysadmins will smack you.
>>45526602 Everyone have seen a person use a window based UI. Not windows. Mac is growing aswell.
>>45526645 I think I might be getting a Mac Mini or something soon, but there's something I don't get about the Mac OS in that picture. What's with the massive wasted space at the bottom of the screen? Is that always there? Is that toolbar on the bottom important?
>>45526651 Are you piping the text on your screen through espeak or something? 4chan posts generally don't sound like anything. What's emotional about people not having used a computer?
>>45526725 >What's with the massive wasted space at the bottom of the screen? >Is that always there? Is that toolbar on the bottom important? The dock scales itself horizontally depending on how many programs/documents/folders you have in it. You can move it to the right or left sides of the screen and hide it. If it's not being hidden, automatic window sizing will take it into account so nothing overlaps.
>>45527020 Not that anon but have we not finally reached a point where new projects no longer need to work with XP yet?
I'm a mac dev and the equivalent would be making my programs work with OS X 10.1 which is absolutely unthinkable. Most mac devs don't bother with anything older than 10.7-10.8 and fucking nobody cares about anything older than 10.6.
>>45527077 >I'm a mac dev and the equivalent would be making my programs work with OS X 10.1 which is absolutely unthinkable. That's the plan though. You force people to upgrade. Or they won't get their software. I know companies that were using ME as late as 2010. Not everywhere but they could. They could probably upgrade too because of windows compatibility.
>>45527407 Not much older than XP. In fact, XP was really just a minor upgrade of 2000 (like 7 was with Vista, or 8.1 was with 8) with programs like DirectX ported to it so it could actually be useful in a home environment.
>>45527525 The problem with Elementary is that the beauty is only skin-deep, so to speak. As soon as you launch a program that's not bundled with Pantheon (i.e. software you actually use), it all falls apart and just looks like your bog standard Ubuntu derivative.
The only way to solve this problem is to kick off the platform with a design and user-conscious developer culture like Apple did with OS X. The elementary guys will never make it as far as OS X has if they don't break away from traditional Linux distributions entirely and make it a separate platform in its own right.
>>45527651 >Elementary OS looks just like it. and then there is arch, which is also linux.
still proving OP's point about linux, you cant have your cake and eat it too, either its a clusterfuck of hundreds of distros and DE, or you are comparing one specific distro to win and osx, and then missing the point
Aynone else noticing that this board is getting shitter by the day? The programming threads are empty, there are almost no good discussion relating to bleeding edge technology, and now there are people who think FOSS is some "wannabe l33t thing that only those crazy smart programmers can use".
At this point, some of the reddit subs are much better than this board.
>>45527750 >you cant have your cake and eat it too, either its a clusterfuck of hundreds of distros and DE, or you are comparing one specific distro to win and osx, and then missing the point
If you do a little bit of background reading on the different distros, you can one that suits your needs. To me it seems like OP's point is that Linux cannot achieve OSX's level of "prettiness", which it can.
>>45527800 The real problem is idiots who see everything in black and white when in reality, there are billions of shades of gray.
I'm fully supportive of FOSS and the goals that Linux distributions and the FSF are trying to achieve, but the way they're going about it is largely counterproductive, especially when the culture surrounding FOSS and Linux is mostly made up of unsociable nerds on high horses. People are going to ultimately going to be driven away and FOSS marginalized if this idiocy continues, because it's something the big corps WILL notice and take full advantage of.
TLDR: At least some portion of FOSS is going to have to cater to Joe Everyman and its proponents are going to have to be friendly if it's ever to gain a majority share in consumer software. Joe and Jane are never going to be the least bit interested in the technical side of things. Anybody who doesn't realize that is either mired in a fantasy world or just doesn't care.
>>45527800 > people who think FOSS is some "wannabe l33t thing that only those crazy smart programmers can use" not what i meant, its more like what >>45527929 said, asshole nerds who think they are THE hot shit
>>45527800 >The programming threads are empty Anyone who can do something that even resembles programming has fucked off to progrider, /r/rust, or Hacker News. As far as people with real skills are concerned, this place is a total joke.
>>45526377 >having to learn a DE >implying it doesn't take more than one hour to learn the in and outs of most linux DEs The only exception is KDE which is such a clusterfuck that it takes years to learn
Consider your life for a moment. You could be at the gym, watching a movie, hanging out with friends, dating, any one of literally thousands of things.
Yet here you are, trolling on /g/ of all places. Most people of at least moderate intelligence spot the Linux vs Windows vs Mac troll from across the room. You're the equivalent of a malicious child who has about as much common sense as someone with Down's Syndrome, screaming shinanegans at the top of your lungs in a room mostly full of equally retarded children.
Supposing for a moment that you actually posted a really great troll... That is your legacy. You made a few people mad on the Internet. Congratulations.
You should really reconsider your path in life, or even your continued existence altogether.
>>45531792 I've learned the hard way that the reason Apple is successful with their ultrabooks is because there are no unknown downsides to any of their models. With all these different models from different companies, making new ones every other month, there's always some big stupid surprise deal breaker. Also bloatware and
>>45532878 Yep. For the most with Apple the biggest thing to be wary of is new body styles/new products; basically, never buy an Apple 1.0. Give it a couple revisions and they'll have any notable issues fixed.
And yeah the whole bloatware problem is hurting MS more than they think. By allowing OEMs to load windows PCs up with shit, they're effectively giving these OEMs a license to erode the Windows brand further than it's already been eroded.
They shown their muscle by forcing windows keys onto the keyboards included with PCs that ship with Windows. They should use this muscle to compel manufacturers to not install bloatware.
>>45536024 Anything that autoruns is evil. If a company insists on installing crap that's fine, but don't ever make it a system service or anything that launches at startup. If it's just sitting on the HD unused it's not really hurting anybody, but if it's running it's going to be eating resources and likely doing unscrupulous things.
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