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EMP blast on post-industrial society
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You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology

Thread replies: 96
Thread images: 4
First time posting here; I hope this is an appropriate place to ask this (wasnt sure if this goes here on on /sci), but exactly what technologies would be affected by a major emp blast, either by a mega flare or a weapon of sorts? What devices would still be usable in a worst-case scenario of such an event? This is not a "how to prepare" question, I'll save that for /out/ or /pol/.
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>>45443906
Watch "Zankyo no Terror."
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Electronic ones mostly
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>>45443922
Or just watch "Watashi ga Motenai no wa Dou Kangaetemo Omaera ga Warui" instead.
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I've built a faraday cage around my room and loaded my closet with lithium ion batteries all neatly stacked together so I should be just fine.
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Everything that isn't EMP shielded would die in a major blast.
Most cars rely on electronics to run now, so that means most transportation is out. Old cars would still work.
So trains, buses, most trucks and lorries would all be dead instantly, which means the entire transport network for food and supplies for cities and the whole world would be fucked.
Add that tractors and farm equipment would get screwed too and you have significant agricultural problems.
I don't think I really need to go any further. You can't grow anywhere as near as much food, and you can't deliver it to cities. That's about as worse as it can get.
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>>45443949
So basically the United states goes back to pre-telegraph times. Are any modern electronic devices built with any sort of EMP shielding?
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>>45443949
Somebody watched HSoTD.
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why do EMP's kill most electronics? Is it permanent?
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>>45444006
Humans Sawed-off Their Dicks?
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>>45443993
No, the US goes back to before agriculture times. The livestock that used to pull ploughs don't fucking exist any more. The ploughs themselves don't either.
Agricultural output is going to fall so fucking sharply, and it will take a few years to recover at least some output.
Best case scenario is that everyone leaves the cities to work on farms, so that few people die of starvation, but everyone now has a life of hard backbreaking labor.
Realistic scenario is chaos as millions of people starve to death and the network that kept modern agriculture going breaks down.
You think you can grow crops without modern petrochemicals? The topsoil is gone, buddy. The phosphorus comes from mines halfway across the world. The fertiliser needed to replace the topsoil comes from the petrochemical industry. An EMP pulse would knock these industries out.
Once the supplies run out, agriculture just fucking stops on 90% of farmland.

You don't quite understand how fucked we are.
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>>45444045
Close enough
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>>45444018
You do know about the relationship between magnetic fields and electricity right? A large magnetic pulse will induce a potential difference inside electronics, putting dozens of volts through a teeny little microprocessor that operates at 3v.
Although, a large EMP pulse is more likely to push thousands of volts through shit.
In 1800s, there was a solar flare that melted power lines.
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>>45444018
It shorts a lot of our more sensitive components. The good news is for small scale electronics its easy to prep and protect using a faraday cage.
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>>45444018
Imagine you put 2 wires on 2 pins of a microcontriller, CPU, or anything. Then you ran 500v through those wires. You think that chip'd work again?
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>>45444018
The same reason static kills electronics.
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>>45443993
Yes many industrial devices are EMP shielded (I mean cmon what do you think the worry of the Cold War was). Sure a great amount of consumer shit would go done, but most would be.

>>45443949
Many old tractors/modern tractors are simple with minimal electronics.
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>>45444056
g-guess I'm off to /out/ to figure out how to prepare for this shit. Whether by the sun or other people, when shit happens I'd like to have a decent chance of not-dying.
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>>45444082
some chips have TVS diodes to handle high voltage spikes
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>>45444132
Usually only on the power source though, not over the whole thing.
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>>45444083
>>45444082
>>45444078
>>45444072
Would wires and other basic things still be able to be used afterwards? or would even wires be fucked
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>>45444493
Toasters, light bulbs, vacuum cleaners, anything without chips. That's provided you have a source of electricity, who knows how long power plants will be dead for, and all your batteries might be fucked as well.
Time to make a wind turbine out of a washing machine.
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>>45443906
>MAD against AI
good.

you should need a permit equivalent to holding nuclear materials in order to locate high-powered computers underground :^)
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>>45444256
the average modern microcontroller has human body model or better ESD protection on all pins except analog input. some have it on all pins and include brownout/short prevention (automotive motor control). you can zap those all day with 15kV and they wont even reset.
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>>45444493
The issue isn't the electricity it's units that need a certain flow for safety. So generic wires should be fine, but some of the large scale power grids would warrant a checking.
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>>45444579
Fuck, I didn't realize.
Cool!
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>>45443949
>tractors rely heavily on electronics
Gonna have to ask for a source on that
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>>45444056
In other words, worldwide famine, and people in the cities resort to cannibalism.
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>>45444641
the fuel/air system on just about everything is electronically controlled. fancier engines use solenoid driven valves rather than a timing chain connected cam.
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a solar flare doesnt actually cause small electronics to fry, the big problem with large flares is that they turn the entire energy grid into one gigantic antenna to soak up all those juicy electrons falling from the sky, and it fries substations everywhere

the only option would be to disconnect every major power line in advance and wait out the solar storm in a nation-wide blackout the may last days
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Radio or telegram
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>>45444056
In that case just move to an Africa, where they do without this shit?
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I guess we should first find out the area spread and size of such EMP weapons before we jump into catastrophic conclusions. How many of such projectiles would have to land on US to deny any response (=> catastrophe)?
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>>45445008
you will find out soon enough when China starts shooting them at you.

But really, some fairly intense calculations would be made, out the league of /g/, besides the 300k starting math majors of course.
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>>45445029
China may as well start shooting nukes. Or Russia could. Why should I be scared of EMPs when I'm not scared of nukes now?
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Call me Thomas, have EMP weapons been tested full scale like nukes in Nevada and New Mexico? Shit probably doesn't even work.
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>>45444722
My grandparents are farmers, as is almost everyone else on their side of the family, I do doubt that most of the equipment they have uses any digital control.
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>>45445096
I don't know, but I doubt they'd have to be.
After the calculations from WW2/The cold war I'm sure the math nerds already know.
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>>45443949
>Add that tractors
>Using electric tractors
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>>45445096
>have EMP weapons been tested full scale like nukes

Nukes are EMP weapons.
You think they didn't study the effect when they were detonating them?
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The US accidentally emp'd itself on a couple of occasions. Pretty sure we know what happens.
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>>45443945
I prefer "Anata Dake No Kuso Anata Wa Sukoshi Meinu, Watashi Ni Tsuite Nan Seikō O Itta No? Watashi Wa Anata Ga Watashi Wa Neibīshīruzu De Watashi No Kurasu No Toppu O Sotsugyō Shitte Iru, To Watashi Wa, Al - Quaeda Ni Kansuru Tasū No Himitsu No Shūgeki Ni Kan'yo Shite Kitadeshou, To Watashi Wa 300 Ijō Kakunin Sa Reta Kiru O Motte Iru"
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>>45446876
Dude tractors nowadays have electronic modules that control fuel consumption, ignition and stuff like that. In superfarms they are almost GPS controlled
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>>45443949
On a scale of Ferguson to South Africa, what kind of chimpouts are we looking at in such a scenario?
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>>45447429
I'll just put it this way: the States will make South Africa look like Ferguson.
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>>45447445
So, we're good?
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>get a bunch of discarded microwaves
>put your electronics inside of them

cant put a car in them but perhaps you could put spare car parts in them? Or perhaps a thing such as a radio or other useful electronic tools?

can you also buy shielded electronics?
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I thought cars were basically big faraday cages ?
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>>45447533
only against lightning but not against emp's. Its glass windows and thin sheets of metal that arent even properly and completely around the electronics to protect them.
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>>45447545
Electric arcs and em waves are two different things read an e and m textbook to have a good intro to the difference
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>>45447499
If something makes an elephant look small, is that particular thing small or large?
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>>45447533
yep, all digital controllers are protected by shielding from even larger scaled EMPs
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>>45444056
>>45444102
I've resigned myself to the fact that living in Western Europe has given me practically no chance of surviving the imminent EMP caused apocalypse.
>huge population density
>small land mass
>practically no inhabited land
>huge cities
>so, SO fucked once the looting, rioting, pillaging and robbery starts. You Americans are far better off than us.
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>>45447583
some countries have a "we must be able to feed our entire population with the crops that we produce ourselves" policy. So it may not be that dire. Just check if your country also has one of these things.
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>>45447594
Have you not been reading the thread? Even if a country were self sufficient now, they wouldn't be able to produce 1% of the food they're currently churning out. Not to mention the fact that all communications and logistics beyond smoke signals have gone out the window.
Oh, and good luck organising those rations during apocalypse caused mass hysteria
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>>45447613
>they wouldn't be able to produce 1% of the food they're currently churning out.
Yeah they would. It'd go down to about 10% production. No topsoil doesn't quite mean ALL AGRICULTURE STOPS NOW
It just means that it's like a 90% reduction, factoring in the loss of industrial agriculture methods too. Animal fertiliser would still be viable. Literally horse shit.
But not enough for everyone.
Factor in that current food production is about 2-3% greater than use, and that food is not being stockpiled by any government, and bam.
If you want to survive, concentrate on surviving 2 winters. 2 winters of starvation will kill so many people that there suddenly might be enough food being produced. The sharp drop in population will continue until production is high enough.
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EMPs in general won't cause to much damage outside of an initial disruption to the way lots of shit is run.
in most cases any electronics will have plenty of metallic shielding between them and the source.
but if you're close to the source and essentially in the direct field, most of the time the pulse will just create a huge pulse of current. which will just blow a fuse, which is readily replaceable because that's what it's for.
shops might be out of service for a while, most CBDs have their phonelines underground now and well shielded from damage, which essentially shields them from EMPs but not designed for it, most peoples mobiles near the source would be fucked though. traffic lights may be out for a bit. but i doubt it, i just have no idea how they're designed.
essentially, it's not even remotely scary as movies suggest
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>>45447650
My body is ready.
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>tfw Hawai`i
>tfw far away enough to maybe dodge EMP
>slow death due to no food imports
Shit's so expensive that even the junk we import is cheaper than anything homegrown. I think people are really underestimating the effect of scale of manufacturing. I hope LED farming can make it in time to save us all.
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>>45447721
>far away
What, far away enough from the fucking sun?
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>>45447721
>surrounded by water
>fishermen everywhere
>can even just catch fish with some dumb sharp stick if you really cared to

There is a reason why many civilizations stayed near coasts/rivers. You wont die, dont worry. Coastal/large river places will have it easier.
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>>45447756
maybe if it was night time
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>>45447769
It's not your geographic location which protects you at night time, it's the rotation of the earth; IE complete luck. And flares are likely to blast the earth for more than 12 hours anyway
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>>45447791
live in the arctic circle then. ~25% chance of not getting got by the EMP at all. Plus no humans to fuck you up
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>>45447807
That's sweet, but unless you can go seal hunting and ice fishing, what the fuck are you going to eat?
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>>45447807
Although now that you mention it, it would be a good place to keep a whole bunch of electronics, farm equipment, and general equipment you'd need to run a modern agricultural system in cold storage.
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>>45447815
If you were in Northern Norway/Sweden/Finland then food is readily available. I know that in Norway and Sweden it's illegal to hunt wild animals so there's a sweet bounty of tasty rabbits, reindeer and polar bears.
Although now I'm thinking about it surviving an arctic winter would be pretty extreme.
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>>45447756
I was still under the impression that this was an attack and had forgotten that we were also talking about flares and coronal mass ejections
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>>45447507
what are you saying. microwaves arent completely shielded.
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>>45447932
Yes they are, otherwise you would be microwaved too. The inside where the food goes is completely shielded, not the electronics of the microwave itself, those are outside of it. Place your cellphone inside it and call it up (obviously dont turn the microwave on)
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>>45447899
You don't seem to get the idea that no matter the ready availability of the food, it will not survive a massive population trying to eat it all at once.
There will be no rabbits left, no reindeer, no polar bears. It will all be eaten, as well as the protected animals too. Starvation doesn't give a shit about protection, or self preservation of the food source.
There's enough wild animals to hunt for 10% of the population, but by the time there are that many people left, the wild animals will be gone.
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>>45447952
>(obviously dont turn the microwave on)
Unless you want the cellphone's battery to be charged
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>>45447958
I was counting on all the moron humans killing themselves during the initial panic
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>>45447952
why does my 2.4 security cam get interrupted when my microwave is operating? it is not completely shielded. only shielded safe enough for humans to be near.
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>>45447969
Well there will be lots of that too, but not enough. First thing that will happen is that people will join together into racial groups. Or some other defining factor. Then the racial groups will fight over resources. The winning groups will then fight among themselves, causing people to scatter everywhere looking for food. Still too many people.
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>>45447983
that may be something coming from the outside of the cage.
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>>45443906
go away obama, we arent your personal tech advisors for when you want to start a nuclear holocaust
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>>45443948
how is your stuff helpfull if all infrastructure is out?
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>>45444096
most are diesel with electric starters, so we would have to replace those (not too hard) and we would be good
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>>45448035
Can still watch my porn on battery power.
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>>45444072
The extra strong solar activity in the 1800's didn't actually melt powerlines unless they were really badly engineered to begin with and had a high internal resistance (electricity + resistance = heat).

What what the flares did do was that it damaged transformers and caused extra noise in telegraph lines which from what I hear freaked out telegraph operators.

Also, you people are seriously overstating the damage an EMP would cause. Pretty much all processor controlled electronics, from embedded ones like thermostats and electronics in cars to to mainframes, are shielded with a faraday cage construction. To damage shielded electronics it'll take a pretty massive EMP even by standards of one caused by a nuclear bomb. Let's not forget that cars also have fuses what are basically one time use circuit breakers to protect the electronics from voltages over the specified ones.

As for the effect on agriculture, other than fuses there's still plenty of farm equipment that doesn't even have microcontrollers as those didn't start showing up until the late 80's and early 90's. Thus far equipment has a double protection, lots of old pre-microcontroller equipment lying around and fuses the same way cars have.
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Wouldn't things like PC's and plenty of other electronics be pretty resistant considering they're (generally) in metal grounded cases?
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>>45448232
this

I also remember that some fcc guidelines specifically mention shielding. I think that all electronics these days are more rugged than most want to admit. These things were shielded for our convenience for problems that are not related to nuclear emps (lightning strikes, overloads, interference etc.)

I am not sure but I think that the bulk of electronic will survive. Especially those that are even better shielded in basements and behind walls or accidental Faraday cages.
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>>45448277
shhhh dont say that or static guard strap companies will go out of business
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>>45444991
While the EMP is still in effect, radio would be out...
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Jokes on everybody else. I'm a master at primitive survival skills. While everyone else dies I'll just head up to the mountains and live for a few years while society rebuilds.
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>>45448387
this
>grab sks
>go innawoods
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>>45444991
but africa still relies on the first world for aid
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>>45448600
Good, then the niggers kill themselves over the last vestiges of UN supplies and those who survive and rise up will inherit the resource rich land
>inb4 edgy
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>>45443906
i watched that gif for 5 minutes straight
>>
Survivorman
Dual survivor
Naked and Alone
Mountain Men

Watch these, google some videos on field dressing, skinning and tanning animal meat, pick up a could good knives and whet stone, a good bow and arrow for hunting, maybe a magnesium starter until you get better at bow drills.

Good to go.
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>>45448805
>a good bow and arrow for hunting
I recommend traditional. They're simpler and have far, far less to go wrong. You drop that compound or if it takes a good whack and it's GLHF.
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>>45449119
Recurve>traditional
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>>45449338
Recurves fall into the traditional category.

You're thinking primitive.

Full disclosure: I run a traditional archery shop.
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>>45449551
recurves have only been around for 800 years, thats not traditional
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There's this thing called STP and also pic.

Some lines might go out but not everything.
After a week everything will be back to how it was.

NOTHING WILL HAPPEN!
Thread replies: 96
Thread images: 4
Thread DB ID: 24510



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