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I want to stop being a NEET and do something...
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I want to stop being a NEET and do something with my life besides sudoku.

Help me choose which programming language to learn: C# or Java?
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>>45308582
Learn both, one at the time.
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>>45308582
C# has a great future ahead now that it has been open sourced.
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>>45308582
>I want to stop being a NEET
Then why do you want to learn a language for NEETs?
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>>45308599

Eventually I will use both, just looking for a decent starting point which can help me net a junior position in a year or 2 from now.
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>>45308602
it was always open source it's a language you dumbshit. how do you patent a language that makes no sense at all.
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>>45308627
>how do you patent a language

Ask Oracle.
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Go C# OP, I know only some Java and I wish I would have actually put that time in learning C#
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>>45308620
You won't get a junior position by just learning a single programming language, anon.

The language is ultimately irrelevant, what matter are your problem solving skills.

I got a job as a C++ programmer without even knowing C++ (and my boss was aware about this).
>>
C#. It's much more modern and streamlined, shit can actually get done in it. The libraries are decently well-designed, too.

Java's libraries are a nightmare and it's completely dependent on one of the most annoying virtual machines in existence.
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>>45308635
Or Microsoft
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>>45308649

I know that but you knew a programming language to demonstrate them.
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>>45308654
yeah but at least that annoying machine lets you port to every system without a care in the world.
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>>45308662
Yes, I knew multiple languages at that point. And in that case, Java and C# is so similar it doesn't really matter which one you start with. The important thing is that you start with one of them and stick to it, and then broaden your knowledge by learning a different language.
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>>45308616
>Java
>for NEETs
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>>45308681
>Ignoring Mono
>Ignoring Microsoft's official support for Mono

They're allowing you to compile code for other operating systems on Windows for fuck's sake
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>>45308702
>portable = it runs on Windoez and Loonix
kek

I guess you claim that Windows runs on multiple architectures as well, because it runs on both AMD and Intel processors.
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>>45308702
>Ignoring Mono

and for good reason
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>>45308683

I cannot help but agree with everything you said. I just feel that companies that ask for "Java developers" fish for degree holders more frequently because Java is taught in almost every CS curriculum, whereas learning C# and the accompanying toolkit requires personal interest.
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>>45308724
is this true? because while i was taught java in uni, i was interested in C# for unity3D. am i nonfucked?
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>>45308582
You mean .net or c# per se?
Because c# per se ain't that good.

I'd take Java then.

But if you are a winfag and plan to use .net framework than I can tell you it has been open sourced. Also Visual Studio has been open sourced. And Visual Studio is a Masterrace IDE (I say this even though I'm a Loonixfag).

I think .net has been open sourced because Java became to dominant on the market and MS struggles on keeping .net cutting edge. You need lots of testing and users and that is what open source makes things so valuable.

So it does not really matter. I'd take Java if you not really sure if you want to make desktop, web, phone applications and would like to keep you doors open.

On the other hand, if you like to be guided and have an insane good IDE from start on, than take c#+.net. (but sure not c# alone)
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Erlang. You should avoid languages that have a low signal-to-noise ratio. There are already millions of code monkeys that are better than you and willing to work for less.
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>>45308738
>Also Visual Studio has been open sourced.

Pretty sure that's not true otherwise no company would bother paying for Ultimate version.
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>>45308751
I think he means that they released a Community edition for VS2013 which is inline with VS2013 Pro.

Or the fact that they are open sourcing the .NET Core
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>>45308751
Worng

There's Community version now which is = VS professional

It's released like a week ago, shit's dope as fuck!
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>>45308742
BEAR IN MIND THERE ARE MILLIONS OF EMPLOYERS WILLING TO PAY IN GENERAL
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>Use VS2013 community
>Feel like walking on a red carpet

>Use IntelliJ
>Feel like walking barefoot on nails

I'd go with C#.
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>>45308795
>not using netbeans or eclipse
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>>45308602
>>45308627

I have personally emailed rms on the matter and he agrees no language can be closed source or non-free.
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NEET?

If you are a NEET, so learn .NEET. :^)
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>>45308813
you didn't have permission to use my insight i am going to sue :(
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>>45308582
Go Java OP. Its syntax is more "pure", no operator overloading, properties and other shit, you do things consistently. When you are aware of how stuff works you can later learn C# and enjoy the convenience features.

Also you won't have to touch the abomination called Visual Studio
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>>45308829
>abomination called Visual Studio

lel there's shitload of people both on /g/ and in real life who say VS is actually good thing

Yes, it installs A LOT of obscure shit and it's not modular but it's very VERY god IDE
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>>45308829
>Shitting on Visual Studio
>When Java devs have to deal with Eclipse

You haven't used Visual Studio in at least a decade.
>>
IntelliJ Master Race
>>
Why do people think learning a programming language is their ticket to making something out of their lives?
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>>45308884
- bloated, no the MOST bloated software ever
- starts about 2 times slower than eclipse and is generally unresponsive
- lags for like 5 secs each time you start debugging
- can't delete project files on disc
- doesn't report errors when running without debug
- shitty project management system; no good list of past projects, always have to browse the drive
- shitty editor
- shitty 2-key shortcuts
- shitty debugging
- can't even fucking update auto-generated docstrings
And a lot more
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>>45308946
- no Vim integration
- auto-completion sometimes suggest even shit like "Type t = new COMPLETELYANOTHERTYPE"
- holds your hand with formatting, have to change settings each time or it shits up existing files
- TODO view is buried somewhere deep
- doesn't show which files have errors
- retarded layout
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>>45308582
Java has a wider market since C# is mostly used on Windows even though mono exists. Java is more portable and has been used by enterprises far longer.
However C# is a nicer, better designed language.
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>>45309008
>>45308946
Dude, you use Eclipse, everything you say is irrelevant.
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>>45309090
Yes, it is, but not so much: I think C# just provide facilities, and Java is very stuck because backwards compatibility.

>properties
What? Are you too lazy for just write getters and setters for a field?

>native events
What is the observer pattern?

>delegates
No, Java has not them, but anonymous classes do the work, even though are verbose.

>reified generics
Yes, better, but type erasure just works fine and this approach to generics harm perfomance, oh yeah? Also, I've read in somewhere that was impossible to port Scala do CLR because some issue regarded to that.

>extension methods
>implying utility classes aren't the sufficient

>LINQ and SQL Like filtering in collections
Just a optional solution. Microsoft is just bringing the SQL style to query to programming. Personally, I prefer the stream + fluent API style in Java 8.

Etc...
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>>45309128
Shill all you want but (even?) Eclipse is way better than VS.

On a side note I use Eclipse for building, debugging, testing, refactoring and code generation, Vim and eclim for everything else. Eclipse is fine.
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>>45309090
this, but you can learn both languages easily, the syntax is nearly same but c# has more functions
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>>45309161
>Yes, it is, but not so much: I think C# just provide facilities, and Java is very stuck because backwards compatibility.
I agree.
However what I also like is how easily I can call native code.
Also, providing facilities for actually useful stuff is not that bad and I kinda like the FCL better compared to Java's standard library. Although it has it's strange moments as well.
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>>45308938
Because 12 year olds know very little about computing?
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Learn Java first, then learn C#. They're extremely similar but Java doesn't have as many shortcuts or intellisense and you always want to do the hard way first.
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>>45309266
>read this post
>go to take a look in the FCL
>see this

'-'
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>>45308681
>without a care in the world

Completely bullshit since the even the virtual machine has platform-specific functionality that needs to be taken care of.
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>>45309332
Java's library seems strange to me always for some reason. Recently not so much. I never said that FCL was perfect. That pic is truly lulz.
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>>45308811
>Netbeans or Shitclipse
>better than IntelliJ

You're exposed, fraud.
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>>45309366
>Java's library seems strange to me always for some reason
Because it's not C#?
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>>45308946
>starts about 2 times slower than eclipse and is generally unresponsive

When did you last used VS? 2005? My community starts under 4 seconds and if you keep restarting your IDE daily honestly you'll waste like 20 seconds per day in 5 "start-ups".

How the actual fuck is this a factor when you pick a language again?
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>>45309379
Nah, I was exposed to Java, before C#. I don't know, probably you are partially right and I'm just not used to it. Though as I said it was a lot less strange the last time I looked at it. Probably I would have to catch up on a few things if I wanted to be heavily competent in Java.
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A thing I don't like about .NET is the fact Microsoft without any shame copied Java and all its ideas but locked it in Windows.

Even in the external things .NET copies Java: Prefer XML (which Microsoft like to call XAML), use C#-like DSL languages, etc...

Even in Windows Phone development it looks like to another Java enviroment: Android.

In Android, you basically write XML for your GUI and Java for the real stuff. In Windows Phone, you write your XAML for the GUI, and C# for the real stuff.

And yes, C# is more pleasant than Java. But I find Java a much more mature technology.
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>>45309299
>Java doesn't have as many shortcuts or intellisense

Opinion = discarded.
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>>45308582
Learn Haskell
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>>45309410
VS2010 just now with a i5-4670k

The one IDE you practically need to use being shit IS a factor when you pick a language
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>>45309444
>In Windows Phone, you write your XAML for the GUI, and C# for the real stuff.

XAML existed before Windows Phones were a thing, by the way. But your point is valid. With that said, it IS an improvement over Java.
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>>45309410
What language is Visual Studio written?

I've heard it is C++. If true... WHAT THE FUCK? HOW CAN VS BE SLOWER THAN ECLIPSE THAT IS WRITTEN IN JAVA?

Is Microsoft that incopentent in write efficient code?
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>>45309473
>execution speed relies solely on the language it is written in
>nothing else
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>>45309473

If you're comparing it with Eclipse Vanilla barebones no wonder it's faster. Try loading the equivalent functionality the default Professional edition provides with support for web pages, phone apps, UI design etc.
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>>45309444
>he doesn't know that Microsoft just recently open sourced .NET
>he doesn't know about Xamarin
>he doesn't know about Mono
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>>45309492
>web pages, phone apps
I didn't ask for that
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>>45309465

Your opinion is discarded anyway because over half of your arguments don't hold any real merit outside your personal preferences and experience.
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>>45309513

I asked. :^)
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>>45309487
My post makes sense:

>C++ is a compiled language sometimes as fast as C
>Java runs in a VM written in C/C++
>Java has the overhead of running in a VM
>VS runs slower than eclipse, whereas VS runs on your processor and eclipse runs on a VM

>microsoft
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>>45309495
>>he doesn't know that Microsoft just recently open sourced .NET
It will need years to become anything. If it will become anything.
Also will the different platforms that the open source version supports be supported by Microsoft or someone else for enterprise use?
>he doesn't know about Mono
Java is more mature across all platforms. Hell even sim cards run a primitive version of Java.
Java has been around for a long time.
>he doesn't know about Xamarin
Compared to VS it lacks a lot.
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>>45309550
>Visual Studio and Eclipse are identical in implementation
>they have the exact same features, use the exact same graphic library with the exact same layouts, the exact same plugin system
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>>45309519
Even if that was true, the rest doesn't. VS is objectively garbage.
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>>45309562

Not the guy you're responding but when you refer to Xamarin you refer to the IDE?
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>>45309643
>objectively

That would be true if I could actually read a post anywhere other than yours. You're the only person out of 5 sources that I've asked today who's so vehemently against Visual Studio.

Either they are all retarded and you're a genius or you're shitposting.
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>>45309662
I've never seen anybody point out things that VS does better than other IDEs. Have you even used VS yourself?

>Either they are all retarded and you're a genius or you're shitposting.
I'll go with them being retarded.
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>>45309710
Not him but VS has a fairly good auto-completion and info-on-hover. The project panel is also painless to use.

On the other hand the compiler's error messages are worthless, it's really slow, and always 5 years behind.
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>>45309734
About the info-on-hover thing, I've found eclipse to be better for that too. VS only shows faint underlines which are easy to miss, that stupid box doesn't always come up when you hover, and then you still have to click it which is very clumsy.

The completion on VS2010 is ok but sometimes it seems to shit itself and suggest totally irrelevant stuff.
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>>45309778
That probably depends what language you're using.

I know msft was all other C# the past years and just left C++ in it's sorry state for years for exemple.
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>>45309162
Eclipse is so god that you need 15 other programs tools to build a functional application.
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>>45309799
yeah the C++ side is... very bad.
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>>45309128
this, go back to your outdated java shit
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>>45309008
>>45308946
almost everything you say is wrong, can be easily fixed or is subjective

also my vs 2013 ultimate starts in 3 seconds
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>>45309562
>Java is more mature
I'll give you that. JVM has been implemented as a processor for java bytecode in embedded systems. That's pretty cool.

>Compared to Vs it lacks a lot
Xamarin isn't an IDE. It allows C# to be used in the development of apps for iPhone, Android, and WinPhone.
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>>45309710
>I'll go with them being retarded.

Kind of biased, don't you think? :^)
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>>45308627
Easy, you just patent the only compiler that can use it. (a.k.a any language that starts with the word Visual)
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>>45310213

That's also true for JVM isn't it? Is that why we have openJDK and Oracle one? Fuck them.
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>>45308658
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/05/dangerous-ruling-oracle-v-google-federal-circuit-reverses-sensible-lower-court

Ask Oracle.
>>
Jesus christ, neither.
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Java has more enterprise use due to the nature of the JVM and shit
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>>45310229
Or Microsoft.
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>>45309444
>A thing I don't like about .NET is the fact Microsoft without any shame copied Java and all its ideas but locked it in Windows.
Oh boy, here we go.

>Even in the external things .NET copies Java: Prefer XML
Maybe that's because XML is a concise and easy to parse markup language?

>(which Microsoft like to call XAML)
XAML is the markup language used to write UIs in WPF.

>use C#-like DSL languages, etc...
What the fuck are you even talking about? C# isn't a DSL language.

>In Android, you basically write XML for your GUI and Java for the real stuff. In Windows Phone, you write your XAML for the GUI, and C# for the real stuff.
But oh wait, that's exactly what WPF does, which was released in 2006.
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>>45310456
>XML
>concise
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>>45309647
I did.
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>>45309161
>Just a optional solution. Microsoft is just bringing the SQL style to query to programming. Personally, I prefer the stream + fluent API style in Java 8.

Do you have a source in this.
Thread replies: 91
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