>>35964091 Been vegan for a while now although I make exceptions when I eat at restaurants. No meat though.
You need to stay on top of your nutrition and protein. Most people who start vegetarian end up with a very unhealthy diet.
I eat a huge bowl of oats with granola for breakfast. Tofurky brand sausage is cheap and has 36 grams of protein per soy sausage--I make bowls with brown rice, black beans, soy sausage and salsa. I make baked tofu with brown rice, steamed vegetables and BBQ sauce like it's chicken. Also eat a handful of peanut butter banana sandwiches on wheat bread throughout the day.
There is no vegetarian source of B12. Be realistic. You should supplement with a high quality B complex and also be conscious of your iron intake. Downplay your new diet and never preach it. I've found the opposite stereotype of "how can you spot a vegan just wait they'll tell your hur hur" to be true. Regardless of how little you try to discuss your diet people will love to argue with you about it. Try to change the subject as quickly as possible. I don't care if people eat meat.
>>35964734 Case in point right here. Please point out where I said humans were intended to eat a vegan diet. They weren't. I have the luxury of being in a position that I don't need to kill animals to sustain myself.
Hey OP. All trolling aside. If you wanna get your protein in, eggs and dairy are your two best options. Fish too if you decide to be pescetarian. Best plant sources of protein are chick peas? Lentils, black beans, any kind of bean will do. Remember to include some grains with that like brown rice, pasta, or bread for them complete proteins.
>>35964786 It's pointing out a severe problem in the mentality of your diet philosophy.
First, you lack both essential macro nutrients (don't tell me that you are getting the same quality of protein through binge eating soy products...) And micro nutrients. Even if you didn't want to eat meat for health reasons and I agree there are some in which not eating meat is a good thing, depraving yourself of nutrient rich foods such as whole milk, eggs, cheese, because you want to be a "vegan" is stupid. Just be a fucking vegetarian.
Second, your main argument is that you don't have to kill animals anymore to get your food so it's philosophical in origin. BUT, any other omnivore / carnivore animal would likely eat your ass given the opportunity. You for some reason value the life of chicken over your own health...which is mind boggling. What's even funnier is what you are doing isn't influencing anyone else to change so it all boils down to you wanting to feel superior...
>>35964091 vegan fag here. Use apps like myfitnesspal or cronometer for the first days/weeks so that you get used to another way of counting your macros.
Cheapest vegan sources of protein are lentils and beans, home made seitan, nuts and seeds and also soy products like tofu and tvp, if you know where to buy. It won't mess with your hormones https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Wt7mhJRwQ Also if you're willing to eat dairy, whey is great, but there are too vegan protein powders: rice, pea, hemp, soy etc. Those are not as complete regarding aminoacids as whey, so that's when Cronometer comes in handy.
Also search, search and search, you don't want to fuck things up. There are quite a few vegan/vegetarian youtube channels that are into bodybuilding and shit that have decent "what I ate in a day" videos: Brian Turner, Cory McCarthy, Jon Venus, Vegan Hustle, and maybe Hodgetwins will make more videos in the future about the topic. There's a vegan bodybuilding web with a forum where most of your doubts and shit will have been responded already.
Also for cooking and recipes, google is your friend.
If you're not eating big amounts of milk and eggs, don't be a fagit and take a supplement of b12, or make sure you're getting enough from fortified foods. There are daily and weekly supps.
>le epic quality protein memay >le humans are carnivores argument >le animals kill each other so it's okay for us to do so statement >le chicken is necessary for health ebin meem >ending with the vegans feel superior well known fact
But even better >entering a thread of a fellow faggit anon fitizen asking for help just to hate and be a huge retard piece of scum. Guess you're the mofo that get's into /fraud/ just to say how cool being natty is, or into /plg/ to hate about muh aesthetics.
Your level of stupidity is above the limits for reproducing, please remove yourself from the gene pool and embrace the void.
>>35965021 I'm not vegan or vegetarian but are you really trying to argue that dairy products and meat are a necessary (or significant) source of MICRONUTRIENTS? If that's your goal, you really are better focusing on fruits and vegetables. Animal products are great for protein and b12, but you can find a better plantbased alternative for literally anything else, macro or micro.
>>35965214 Not the guy you responded to but I wanted to share my viewpoint. I'm a veterinarian and I once had little back and forth about becoming a vegetarian. Not too long ago my brother got accepted into a nice college and we went out to a steak house to celebrate. I had for the first time a good steakhouse quality steak. I sat there and said to myself "damn....this is so good. I can help cows become this" Animals are our providence, our property, and ours to do with what we see fit. I do not cry every time I eat meat, that steak I ate was the reason that cow was born and raised. I believe of course that we should treat these animals humanly when we raise them for our consumption, but ruminants especially since they don't compete as heavily for our grains are food. Animals are a product. A product that can feel pain and should be treated humanly but at the end of the day a product that I will eat.
>>35965339 Ok you view animals as a product, I view them as sentient beings with emotions, fears and sensations and because of that I refuse to eat them. Not only that the production, especially in an industrial setting require for mass production of meat for mass consumption isn't humane out of necessity to meet demand.
>>35965256 >Honestly there is no one more preachy than meat eaters whenever this topic is brought up This so much, all the time family. Meat eaters are defensive as fuck, because they know they just lack the willpower to make the obviously ethical and healthier life choice.
OP just eat lots of calories to start off so you don't feel like you're "craving" anything. Make sure you're eating different fruits, starchy and non-starchy vegetables, nuts and seeds, oats and whole grains. If you want to feel good about your life don't participate in suffering, and ignore the massive amount of ignorant bitter crybabies who will try and shame you for being vegan/veg even when you've never tried to convince them of your diet or lifestyle
>>35965339 >I believe of course that we should treat these animals humanly >A product that can feel pain and should be treated humanly Farm animals are not treated humanely, don't fucking kid yourself man, and they never will be. Free Range labels mean next to nothing. You're participating in murder
>>35964786 the one part about veganism that really grinds me down is this: do you adhere to veganism only in your diet? Animal products aren't just used in food, they're used in all kinds of things. Do you adhere to veganism as a lifestyle or is it exclusively a diet thing? To me, it just seems maybe not hypocritical, but inconsistent to claim that you won't consume animal products, and I'm almost certain that there's no vegan that can escape using other things that have animal products in them.
not the same anon, but I only give a fuck about what I eat. I got some things made out of leather for example, and I don't know what is in every single product I own. And I don't really care tbqh. The only thing I consume other than food that's 100% vegan is my grooming products, and just because I found them near my home.
>Heme Iron and N-Nitroso Compounds We ingest two types of iron from food: heme iron and nonheme iron. Animal foods are the only sources of heme iron, which is often assumed to be nutritionally superior since we absorb it more efficiently into our blood stream. Evidence is mounting, however, that links heme iron to various cancers, including colorectal cancer (Qiao and Feng 2013). We’re not exactly sure how heme iron contributes to cancer, but one promising theory links heme iron consumption to the creation of unstable N-nitroso compounds (NOC) in the body (Bingham, Hughes, et al. 2002). One of the EPIC studies showed that the more NOC produced, the higher the risk of gastrointestinal cancer; rectal cancer, specifically. A 2003 randomized controlled trial found that feeding people meat led to higher levels of NOC in their stool. When they were fed an equivalent amount of vegetable protein, their levels of NOC were much lower. And here’s the fascinating part about this study: supplementation with 8 grams of heme iron spiked NOC levels, while adding ferrous (nonheme) iron had no such effect (Cross, Pollock, et al. 2003). So the “good-for-us” iron from meat may turn out to be the missing ingredient in turning nitrates into cancer causing NOC. An interesting 2010 study supports this theory. Researchers fed 14 participants a high-red-meat diet for 8 days, followed by 8 days of a combination of red meat and fish, then 8 days of a high-fish diet. Their stool samples were examined during each phase of the trial. The study found more NOC and heme iron on the red meat diet, and less on the fish diet ( Joosen, Lecommandeur, et al. 2010).
>>35966064 And another study by the same team found more NOCs and more DNA damage in the group eating red meat and processed meat than in those on a vegetarian diet ( Joosen, Kuhnle, et al. 2009). As with HCAs, eating more plants appears to reduce the effects of heme iron. Beets, for example, are high in nitrates, but there’s no evidence that those chemicals are converting into NOC; beets have fewer amino acids than meat and are chock-full of antioxidants. It appears this may block the conversion of plant sources of nitrates into NOC. The Mediterranean diet consists of many foods with high antioxidant ability and also have the ability to chelate iron; that is, take it out of the bloodstream and remove it from the body (El and Karakaya 2004). Greens in particular are highly protective. This finding may also contribute to explaining the small differences found by EPIC Oxford between meat eaters and vegetarians. The meat eaters were consuming a fair amount of plant-based food, which may have been partially canceling the toxic effects of heme iron.
>Carnitine, Choline, and TMAO Another mechanism linking meat and prostate cancer (and possibly others) comes from ingestion of certain nutrients* nutrients some people actually supplement with. I mentioned carnitine and choline as possible causes of heart disease in the cardiac chapter. Well, there may also be a link when we look at cancer, especially prostate cancer. Eggs in particular are very high in choline. A prospective study of men already diagnosed with prostate cancer found that consuming high amounts of eggs and the skin of chickens doubled the risk of cancer progression or recurrence. Those men deemed “high risk ” for recurrence were even more susceptible; their risk of recurrence or progression of prostate cancer quadrupled compared to men who ate the smallest amount of eggs and chicken skin (Richman, Stampfer, et al., 2010). And the Health Professionals Follow-up Study found that those men who ate the most eggs increased their risk of dying from prostate cancer by 70 percent compared with the men who ate the fewest (R ichman, Kenfield, et al. 2012). Interestingly, the actual prostate cancer cells were found to have high choline levels. Why does this cause cancer? Researchers are not sure. There are several possible mechanisms that are being investigated (R ichman, Kenfield, et al. 2011, 2012).
Cuz... >muh heart disease >muh inhumanity >muh environment >muh cancer
How about you fucking idiots actually stop arguing about shit and eat an ACTUAL BALANCED fucking diet.
You're literally not eating some of best foods on the planet because you care about fish's feelings. >>35965339 This guy has it pretty perfectly. We won the evolutionary arms race and now cows and pigs are a commodity. Do I want animals to suffer a painful and slow death? No, of course not, nobody fucking does. But guess what, fuck them.
>>35965214 >>le epic quality protein memay You get a more complete amino profile from animal protein, so yes >>le humans are carnivores argument Not carnivores but certainly omnivores who have been hunters for most of our existence >>le animals kill each other so it's okay for us to do so statement Humans are the only ones exempt from the cycle of life and death that almost all other living things participate in? >>le chicken is necessary for health ebin meem Not necessary, but commonly recognised as being very beneficial - second only to fish.
The rest of your post isn't even of b8 quality and not worthy of a response.
>complete amino profile from animal protein No, that's just false as fuck. Have you ever even tried it? On cronometer for example? Of course tuna has a more complete profile than kale, but you don't eat just kale... Just eat various sources of protein, get all the grams you need, and guess what? oh shit you just got all the aminos. >>35967229. And that's just black beans, that have nothing to do with soy, hemp, quinoa, lentils. Or you know, a fucking balanced daily food intake.
>Humans are omnivores. Hunters for most of our existence No, we are not, see pic related. No we haven't, we have been scavengers and farmers out of needs and commodity. However, even if we were, we don't need animal products at all, whatever your personal nutritional needs are. So the fact that we can do something, or that we have done it for ages does not mean we have to.
>exempt from cycle of life of death No, we aren't, of course not. We are animals, we die, we kill, we reproduce, etc. But we are moral agents, we have notion of right and wrong, we can choose, we can even change our needs or natural behavior because of ethics, empathy, morals, respect, honor, pride, religion, acceptance, daddy issues, responsibility, etc. We are not obligated carnivores, we can choose what to eat, therefore we have to keep in mind that what we consume has consequences, and reevaluate our own beliefs when new information is shown. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyLs9Di8o2o
>Chicken can be very beneficial Well, I don't like to, but this I have to agree with. Certain animal products have some benefits that can be helpfull. But that does not mean we must eat them. Every beneficial thing you get from animals, you can get from plants.
Yes, peta is fucking retarded. You see, when I see a video of vegan bigots activist going to a restaurant shouting "meat is murder", I do cringe, and shame my head at them, they are doing more harm than good.
However not all vegans are that stupid. The ones that don't shitpost all over facebook, scream to others about their diets or don't tell to everyone how great is to be vegan are unnoted, and also the majority. Most people I know irl don't even know I'm vegan kek.
>>35967340 >1 I wasn't looking at any diet in its entirety, but individual food sources. I never said vegans cannot get a balanced protein diet, but that animal products are inherently better for this. This is my understanding; whether it is true or not is irrelevant because I do not forbid myself any foods. Just 2 days ago I had tofu with rice noodles and coconut milk.
>2 This meme needs to die. From a vegan website: https://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm
>3 I 100% agree with you there. No - really. But the thing about morality is it's a two way street. Your morals are not my morals; and in my worldview, animals are inherently inferior to us. Does that mean I like to tip cows over for fun and torture bunnies? No, it just means I don't put animals on equal footing with humans - a perfectly reasonable stance and one most would agree with. And at the same time I cannot criticise someone who, let's say, follows biological imperatives and doesn't give two shits whether the meat he's eating came from a suffering animal. Just like you may or may not care whether an exploited Bangladeshi child made your clothes, or the working conditions of the South American who made your quinoa, or whether your tax money goes to funding war.
>4 And why do you assume meat eaters don't eat plants? Vegans on here keep saying they can get a perfectly balanced protein diet (as you yourself rightly pointed out) - but all of a sudden meat eaters don't eat plants? Anyone whose diet does not consist of mostly plants - meat eater, vegetarian, or vegan - is a fucking idiot. So, the way I see it, I can reap the benefits of your diet and all the benefits of animal products.
>>35967437 yet another time traveller. You know nothing about the guy and stop acting like you do. You only know the Jewish propaganda or the nazi leftover camp propaganda. Nothing more. Now stop and post some real evidence from him being vegan or whatnot... .
>>35967466 >Which is also the healthiest As I recall, the reason for that is not the diet but the affordances of living in the US and especially in California, being middle-class, and being a very tight-knit faith-based group.
>"semi-vegetarian" >eating fish/poultry/meat several times a month is semi-vegetarian You go tell a Sardinian that they're semi-vegetarian and after they stop laughing, come back and talk to me.
>>35967453 It's not common knowledge like "ice melts at lower temperatures than steel." its debatable and used as an invalid biological / physiologial argument for an actually personal, ethical choice.
>>35964091 Beans have the cheapest protein per gram. Whey is great for the protein, if you're not against eating animal products. If you are, use soy protein powder although that's harder to find. Scooby's site has a great calculator for complete protein profiles. http://scoobysworkshop.com/protein-calculator/
Ignore the naysayers. Basic mathematics still apply to nutrition, get X amount of macros. It's not impossible to be vegan and build muscle.
>As I recall, the reason for that is not the diet but the affordances of living in the US and especially in California, being middle-class, and being a very tight-knit faith-based group.
Low-stress living and social support is common to all long-living, healthy populations. In Adventist community it's actually not all vegetarians, but different diets that can also include meat. It's just the ones that don't eat meat, even within that community, are generally healthier than the ones who do.
>You go tell a Sardinian that they're semi-vegetarian and after they stop laughing, come back and talk to me.
It's semi-vegetarian in the sense that the vast majority of meals on the vast majority of days don't include meat. If you eat meat twice a month, you're not a vegetarian, but you can agree that it doesn't really represent what we think of as a meat diet either.
>>35967536 >i think in america the diets are too high in meat. And also the bigger problem is the quality of the meat.
This is the huge curveball when comparing meat-eating and vegetarian diets.
The vegetarians are more often than not watching their portions and are by default more food/health-conscious (though I know vegetarians who eat nothing but cheese toasties). The meat-eaters are most likely eating copious amounts of processed (red) meat and not enough plants/vegetables.
It's faulty from the get-go. As mentioned previously in this thread, 2 of the healthiest diets in the world do not omit meat/dairy/eggs as a rule: >>35967451 >>35967456 >>35967473
A meat-eater who does not neglect other food groups can be just as healthy as a vegan and even have certain advantages, just as a vegan has certain advantages over meat-eaters. If you're a meat-eater and you can eat nothing but salami, pepperoni and chorizo - as well as neglect your healthy grains and plants - then you lack the discipline to maintain a healthy diet; don't blame animal products.
To go vegan purely for nutritional reasons is shaky ground at best. I don't care if vegans do it for financial or ethical reasons, but they need to stop pretending they are intrinsically healthier. They're healthier than the average Western meat-eater for sure, but that's like being a faster runner than a cripple: It doesn't say much.
>not using the primary purpose of the internet nice.
β-Carotene is a strongly colored red-orange pigment abundant in plants and fruits. Beta-carotene is a well known antioxidant;:179 eating a diet rich in them is often recommended. Benefits from taking supplements are not supported.
>>35964091 Hey, I don't even bother reading through all these /fit/ meat eaters' comments, so here we go with some actual advice. It's super easy, at least if you don't go fully raw vegan or something (it can still be done, but RIP your jaws). I get my gainz primarily from rice, beans, (rye) bread, beans, lentils - legumes in general, potatoes and oats. I eat a spoonfull of peanut butter in my smoothies and make sure to count calories; I would recommend you to count calories for the first week or so, then you'll have a sample of how it looks like reaching your macros. It can really be done, don't mind all the fgts here. Vegetarianism/veganism is the only future for this planet, we were truly never meant to harvest meat for 7 billion people.
>>35964091 Keep your bandwagoning debunked bullshit out of /fit/ >http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-best.html >http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-are-as.html
>>35966181 Science and fact proves that's bullshit >>35967536 >too high in meat. No such thing. Vihjalmur Staffansson proved you can eat a diet pretty much entirely composed of meat and be fine >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilhjalmur_Stefansson >i do not think omitting meat is necessary,or even very beneficial It's not >>35968506 >that's just cringe-worthy No, it's right. and meat eaters who eat like shit and don't train are the only ones who are bad. Meat eating only has net benefits and doesn't leave you nutritionally deficient like veganism and vegetarianism does, which you then have to costly and retardedly suplement to compensate for. The only people who believe in that shit are bandwagoning idiots who can't do even a hint of scientific research or critically think. Unless you have something biologically wrong with you that prevents you from eating it, there is no valid reason except your own subjective (and retarded) choice to get rid of meat from your diet or to tell others to do the same. Meat is not "bad for you", will not give you cancer or any other bullshit anyone else says it wil >http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-simplicity-of-dieting-it-really-is.html
>>35970747 >both men were sendentary they literally didn't even lift either. If they did the results would definitely have been better. They were also just starting a diet that Inuit had had eating for years(obeserved to have no ill effects), of course their bodies weren't going to be as used to it. And, >http://freetheanimal.com/2014/07/stefansson-experiement-compromised.html Their lack of glucose wasn't due to eating meat They were in starvation mode. >"No, they were put into starvation, and in order to spare essential glucose for the brain, the metabolism no longer gave a runny shit about cellular sensitivity to insulin." The net benefits of meat still do not change, and this commenter's right >We are not a vegetarian species. The oldest evidence of stone tool use is 3.4 million years old. When Homo Habilis began making stone tools 2.6 million years ago, to butcher meat, their brain size increased by a third. When Homo Erectus began cooking meat 1.8 million years ago, their brain size increased by a whopping 42 percent! The largest increase in our history.
By 1 million years ago, ALL the species of vegetarian hominids were extinct. The surviving species all ate meat: Homo Erectus, Neanderthals, Cro Magnons/Homo Sapiens and Homo Floresiensis.
Check out the book Catching Fire: How Cooking Made Us Human by Professor Richard Wrangham.
Compared to the size of our bodies, humans have the largest brains of any animals on Earth. Bottle nosed dolphins are second. We gave up a large digestive system and strong muscles (A chimpanzee is 2 to 5 times stronger than an adult man.) in exchange for larger brains. It takes a larger digestive system to handle an all plant diet, but meat is easy to digest, contrary to vegetarian misinformation.
To maintain these massive brains, we need long chain and very long chain fatty acids which are only found in meat.
Now they're making excuses for why the evidence you posted doesn't show what you thought it did. Maybe they would have done better than chronic diarrhea and pre-diabetes if they lifted but with the diet alone they were in noticeably bad shape. Why did you post it to begin with if you were going to dismiss it completely the second someone discusses it?
>By 1 million years ago, ALL the species of vegetarian hominids were extinct. The surviving species all ate meat: Homo Erectus, Neanderthals, Cro Magnons/Homo Sapiens and Homo Floresiensis.
I don't know what you're trying to argue with this. Eating meat was a great survival advantage in those populations, as an extra source of food in an environment where food scarcity means starvation and death.
>To maintain these massive brains, we need long chain and very long chain fatty acids which are only found in meat.
Compile your evidence. Preferably primary sources.
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