How can I trust either of these goons to get me ripped when they both look pathetic?
If their programmes are so good, why aren't they in better shape?
SS worked for me.
You will put on muscle faster than any other program designed for beginners. If you honestly think that doing a 4 day split is going to make you look any better than SS or Bill Stars routines you're a retard.
yes they are, rip recommends SS for starting bodybuilders too
nice strawman. its not like its always either SS or a 4-day split.
you need to add accessories to SS to make it balanced, but then it wont be SS.
>yes they are, rip recommends SS for starting bodybuilders too
he means for beginning BBers, they need to be strong too, for example before Bbing arnie used to be a powerlifter.
And you can accessories to SS, read the book it has a chapter on accessories.
Because as a beginner you need to be spoonfed and you need the simplest shit to avoid fuckarounditis. You don't have to think or remember shit for SS or SL. Just do your three lifts and go home.
Pic related is what reddit currently promotes as a 'beginner routine'. I've been training for 5 years and have no shitclue what this is supposed to be or why it's supposedly better than just doing 5/3/1. A beginner is gonna get demotivated just by having to read through all that shit three time to understand it. You can't set a 'goal weight' when you can't even bench the bar.
That's why you do a simple beginner routine like SS or SL, to do something simply and easy, to make fast progress, stay motivated and feel yourself into weightlifting. After a few months you'll find out yourself how things work and can read more into it if you want.
Are SS or SL the best beginner routines for all purposes out there? Probably not, but they're simple and they work and there's a shit ton of support out there for you if you do them. (As opposed to pic related who got butthurt after asking him about his qualifications.)
You shouldn't trust them.
This is what "success" looks like on SS.
>he means for beginning BBers
thats what i said?
>they need to be strong too
to some extent yes but they will get strong enough on a PPL or 2-day split too
>for example before Bbing arnie used to be a powerlifter.
yeah, and for example Kai does not give a fuck about strength
>read the book it has a chapter on accessories.
the book is about basic barbell training, not just the novice program. youre not supposed to do halting deadlifts or rack pulls in the novice program. chins are the only accessory youre supposed to "add" into the novice program.
to be fair the left guy didnt do SS for sure and the right guy just wanted to get strong. if he wanted his results probably would have looked quite different.
For those who are still genuinely unaware. That isn't Rippetoe. I believe this pic is, however
You do realize SS expects accesories and regardless it's pretty balanced anyway.
My top half looks fine compared to my legs and all I do is Dips Rows Press Bench Cleans Deadlifts Squats.
Do you really think that you're not going to get a set of arms if you can Bench, Row, Press and Dip heavy?
No, but there are always alternatives.
Then don't. No one's stopping you from doing your own aesthetics program. But if you don't want to plateau because you're lifting baby weights all day and can't move up, come back and try. No one's stopping you from making your first gains on your own.
>you need to add accessories to SS to make it balanced,
No you don't, you fucking retard. If you're bitching about the lack of biceps, chin ups are a stated part of SS, which you'd know if you read the book. That's your "bicep work."
A beginner doesn't need, and in fact won't benefit, from any added silly bullshit. Once the LP gains are exhausted (six-ish months if you eat and sleep enough, 2-4 months for the idiot n00bs on /fit/ that absolutely refuse to eat), you can move to a weekly program with accessories added onto it to fit your goals. However, even then the big barbell lifts should be the core of the routine.
>And you can accessories to SS, read the book it has a chapter on accessories.
Those accessories are specifically not there fore beginners. He stuck them in the book because that's the book with the detailed instructions on how to do the lifts, and it fit in with that. Those are potentially "useful accessory" lifts for people beyond the novice phase. No beginner needs to be doing any form of modified deadlifts, for example.
The only "accessory" included in SS is chip ups, and he says those are important and useful enough for general strength that, if it weren't for the bodyweight nature of the lift, he'd consider it right alongside the main barbell lifts.
jesus christ people are stupid
okay, let's take the lateral head of the deltoids as an example. I'd just go out on a limb and say that this part of the muscle is desirable if you are looking to bodybuild/look good/whatever.
of course a beginner benefits from doing lateral raises, why the fuck wouldn't he. It doesnt fuck with his recovery (which is short anyway cause he is a beginner) and your lateral delts won't really develop from bench or ohp.
>cropping out the stats
starting strength h8rs will go to any lenghts
>Pic related is what reddit currently promotes as a 'beginner routine'. I've been training for 5 years and have no shitclue what this is supposed to be or why it's supposedly better than just doing 5/3/1.
To nitpick, 5/3/1 is not a good routine for a novice.
>Are SS or SL the best beginner routines for all purposes out there? Probably not,
SS is probably the best routine for anything lifting weights could possible accomplish for a rank novice. It's not for marathon runners, but there's nothing better for n00b athletes, n00b bodybuilders, scrubs who want to "get healthy," scrubs who want to "tone up," and so on.
The only reason not to do it as a beginner is if you're too old and frail, and possibly too female, to manage. And even then, the principles of program remain useful, it's just the set/rep schemes and planned progression might stand to change.
Apparently women can respond better to 4x4 or ever 5x3 set/rep schemes, due to being able to work with higher percentages of their 1RM for a particular number of reps when compared to males. Probably because they aren't as good as recruiting the maximum amount of muscle fibers as men are, so their 1RM isn't as close to the theoretical maximum amount of contractile force the involved muscle could produce, if that makes any sense.
And obviously, those too old to have much testosterone left won't be able to progress as much as quickly.
>lateral delts won't really develop from bench or ohp.
>won't really develop
You're an idiot and a cancer to this board. What, pray tell, the fuck do you think abducts the humerus?
Lol. How can you tell?
Jokes aside, I'm seeing a program that takes 4 weeks to add (at best) 15lbs to a specific lift.
For a novice, if strength is the primary goal, that is awful progression.
SS by comparison has you add as much as 15lbs each workout to squat and deadlift.
Not even commenting on the staggering complexity for a rank novice.
>You do realize SS expects accesories
no, it doesnt. read the book. chins are the only accessory youre supposed to add to the novice program. the accessories section is there for the sake of "basic barbell training", not the novice program.
and it might work for some people but most people gain shit in their arms and shoulder and chest. i gained half an inch in my arms doing SS and similar kind of programs without much isolation for a year
doing 10-20 reps of chins once or twice a week is not nearly enough volume. most people recommend 45-60 reps (at least 70% of 1rm or so) per muscle.
besides that, lateral delts, rear delts and lower chest are the biggest problems on SS. triceps too to some extent, benching/OHPing just doesnt really hit them well enough.
benching and rowing actually do nothing for your lateral delts. do you even anatomy? their role in cleans is minimal too.
ohp 3x5 1,5 times a week is not nearly enough for the lateral delts.
i strict press 75kg, although im not who you responded to
the overhead press is done mostly in the scapular, not the sagittal plane. the line of pull doesn't match very well and the volume isn't enough anyway.
Hey dude, I'm not trying to be an asshole but you're wrong. You've proven it by saying that Pressing, Benching and Dips aren't enough for your triceps.
You also just said that lower chest is a big problem on SS, Flat Pressing and Dips cover that in a big way dude. If you geniunely believe that you need to do Decline Pressing or any other accessory work for your lower chest you have legit down syndrome and I am so sorry that you're allowed to post on a anime fitness homoesexual board without adult supervision.
dips aren't in the program, and yes, pressing and benching is not enough. ive experienced it myself and so have many others. it might work for you but it wont work for everyone.
flat pressing is very inefficient for the lower chest, pic related. the line of pull is shit and the ROM is very small in the portion where the lower chest does something.
If you geniunely believe that you need to only do flat bench and dips for your lower chest you have legit down syndrome and I am so sorry that you're allowed to post on a anime fitness homoesexual board without adult supervision.
If you can flat press 100k+ for reps, your lower chest is going to be big. You don't need to do decline pressing for a big chest.
I've trained loads of dudes and worked with people that have competed, no one with any experience does decline pressing because we're all aware that your entire lower chest grows from flat pressing. What do you think happens, you get a fat lump in the middle of your chest and the lower fibers don't grow at all?
I'm goanna need to see a picture of yourself dude, because I've got a feeling you have no idea what you're on about.
>If you can flat press 100k+ for reps, your lower chest is going to be big
i can bench 5x120kg and my lower chest is small.
im not advocating decline pressing. cable crossovers are pretty good.
what i think happens is you get some growth in your upper chest, a little less in your mid chest and a small bit in your lower chest. look at the picture I posted and think again what part of the chest does most of the work in a proper bench.
another youtube powerroider who want to push his own overcomplicated I-reinvented-the-wheel! routine into the throat of clueless beginners.. reminds me of the sad joke blaha
and paid redditors shills upvote applaude and cheer him as he do it
reddit is truly a horrible shitty hugbox
this place is bad, can be crabbucket negative and always find some way to get under your skin and bring out your deepest insecurities (nogf, sexual misery, height, lack of social skills, repressed homosexuality, skin color, lack of beard, balding, whatever your insecurity is), but at least it encourage you to have some common sense and develop a somewhat critical point of view concerning information about fitness, and not to drink koolaid blindly
The consensus here would be take what make sense and leave the rest, aka starting strenght is a very good beginner routine if done correctly (with accessories, with cleans, with a light squat day as you begin to move serious weight) but I think nobody here takes rippletits seriously when it comes to nutrition, adult male > 200 lbs meme and GOMAD pants on head retarded diet
Memes. Internet lifting is all memes.Squats are a meme, powerlifting is a meme, all those fad diets are memes, scouring google scholar for the latest fad is a meme. Without /fit/, misc, Sherdog and T-Nation, we'd all do 3x10 workouts with 90 degree squats and no deadlifting while eating classic low-fat chicken-rice-broccoli diets.
>SS is probably the best routine for anything lifting weights could possible accomplish for a rank novice. It's not for marathon runners, but there's nothing better for n00b athletes, n00b bodybuilders, scrubs who want to "get healthy," scrubs who want to "tone up," and so on.
Yessis 1x20 is superior to SS in everything but raw max power for beginners: More aesthetics, more athletic ability, less chance of injury, less boring, quicker gains.