they reference like 3 tribes that are great runners then and then make up this big fantasy story about humans running down herds of animals for months straight. just because humans can sweat doesn't mean we are designed to run distance. literally everyone i know who has run for most of their life has completely fucked up feet and knees. its all bullshit, humans have calves and glutes for walking. shut the fuck up about your last 50 miles
> trying this hard to justify not running distances
Muh hiit muh bodybuilder advice
>tfw almost all primitive cultures had running myths that we know of
the argument is not that we were designed to run long distance. We are a species that is adapted to running very long distances, and sweating is just one of the adaptations, just like elastic leg ligaments, arched feet, and our upright posture. If you think that the arch of the foot is better for walking than storing and transferring energy while running then you dumb.
I guess your friends sucked at running properly.
Persistence hunting is a thing and some tribes still do it
I bet you can't climb more than a couple sets of stairs without sweating and breathing heavily
bro why you attacking me personally? i train bjj and do cardio by swimming or biking because running for the last 8 years has really fucked up my ankles? now back to the question at hand. why would hunting with a bow for example require you to run? wouldn't walking quietly be more effective and efficient?
I don't get it either. Total misinformation. The human body has adapted to run, yes, but mostly over medium/short distance at high intensity.
Apart from a few tribes who we, as westerners, are pretty physiologically different from at this point we're better suited to walking long distances and then hunting in short intense bursts.
Just because we can run for miles and miles doesn't mean that we should.
Not who you were responding to, but over a long enough distance humans have better endurance. Sure, a horse could out run you to start with, but if you could properly track it you would eventually wear it out enough so that you would catch it.
Oh and persistence hunting is for dumb shits who didn't learn or invent the technology to do it more efficiently.
If you're literally still running your prey to death you're at least 10,000 years behind the rest of mankind.
>shits on an idea
>gets shit on
>stop picking on meeeee
that's if you have a bow, which seems like an easy thing to have with hindsight, but was a technological innovation at the time. People had to eat before the bow (or something functionally equivalent) was invented. Persistence hunting you don't need a bow, you just need to run until your prey is exhausted and can't run and you can cut its throat with some sharp obsidian or something.
Again, your ankles are probably fucked because you don't know how to run, not because running is shit.
Nope, can't say that I have. Idk why they would continue running if running fucked em up. That makes no sense to me. That's like trying to do an a2g squat without the requisite flexibility and asking why do I keep getting injured? I've competed against both older and younger runners though, and I regularly saw older people running.
Are you operating on the assumption that our ancestors only had one sole method of hunting?
If so, that is incorrect. There are small game animals that we would have used a variety of hunting techniques to catch, including traps. We also fished, gathered, and with larger game animals we could have surrounded them with spears and bled them to death, or just chased them off a fucking cliff. There's a diverse variety of hominids, especially back earlier in our history, and our species covered a vast geographical area, with a wide variety of different challenges and obstacles that needed to be overcome. Logically, there is no way in hell that there could ever have been a one size fits all hunting strategy hard coded into our DNA. If there was, we would have gone extinct except maybe in one or two relatively limited regions. Our ability to change, learn, and adapt faster than any other species is what made us the apex predator on this planet. Not our ability to run a fucking long ass time after training extensively. Our earliest ancestors were probably scavengers and gatherers. To say that we had only one specialized tactic for survival is to equate us with insects. It is the product of extremely limited thought capacity by some very sad and ignorant people.
There was no primary hunting strategy. And running animals down into exhaustion is a horrifying waste of calories that would probably only have been attempted as a last resort.
We are bipedal, which means we have less immediate power than four legged animals but we are more effecient at movement.
Average speed of a horse over 20+ Miles: 10.5mph
Average speed of a human over 20+ Miles: 12.7mph
Because that is evidently the case. Running is the one thing humans are best at in the animal kingdom. No other animal can run for as long as humans, it's fucking amazing what our metabolisms are capable of.
Okay. I have a challenge for you. Go out into the wilderness for 2 months with 19 other people and try to survive by running down herd animals.
Protip: You will fail miserably and probably injure yourselves.
What you are describing is a horribly inefficient strategy for gathering food. Just look at most of the primitive tribes out there and you'll see how our ancestors survived.
Nowhere did I say it was the only one. No one ever has said it was the only one. You assumed I said something and started arguing with yourself. That's called a straw man argument. Good try, though.
I have a challenge for you.
Go to an isolated patch of dirt with 19 other people as inexperienced as you and grow your own food and survive without any problems.
Protip: you will fail miserably and will probably starve
What you are proposing is beside the point and a terrible argument. If you think that the sign of being an adaptive hunting strategy is that any dumbass from the insurance firm on main street can survive in the widerness without any training then you don't know what it takes to survive in the wilderness.
Humans *can* be endurance hunters, some remote people still practice it, but its not likely that people did this in any great numbers at a point in our evolution. That much wear on the joints would produce a lot of creaky kneed cripples who would get eaten by another predator.
You've really got no excuse for being unable to run 5 miles a couple times a week though.
People are one of the most efficient machines around. We walk upright, on two legs, and the caloric expenditure of doing so gives us crazy advantages. Other four legged mammals whether they're larger or smaller than us they cannot travel the same distances in a day that we can. A lot of animals are capable of relatively short bursts of speed, and they need to rest for a long time afterwards. Horses in particular can sprint like a motherfucker, but over great distances they end up not running very fast, and then they have to eat an insane amount of food to make up for it.
We can jog the same distance a horse can run til its exhausted, then we can keep going several miles more, and we don't have to eat grass for 6 hours to make up the lost calories. Humans are apex for more than one reason.
>they reference like 3 tribes that are great runners
So you don't want examples of the active practice?
>and then make up this big fantasy story about humans running down herds of animals
HERDS of animals would be fantasy. What ACTUALLY happened is very much so truth
>for months straight
Literally nobody claims this
>just because humans can sweat doesn't mean we are designed to run distance
Just because you have hands doesn't mean you were designed to hold things
>literally everyone i know who has run for most of their life has completely fucked up feet and knees
The damage you do to your body is dependent on how you run (heel striking will fuck your shit up, for example), how often, and how long you live. Humans weren't meant to live as long as we do now. Back when persistence hunting was our main thing, it would have been perfectly reasonable to run yourself to the bone for 30 years and then keel over.
>its all bullshit
Your claims are bullshit
>humans have calves and glutes for walking
Who would have guessed that you use muscles in your legs for both walking and running?
>shut the fuck up about your last 50 miles
Shut the fuck up about your last reps. See? I can do it too.
He also didn't say that hunting is the only skill that evolution of running would benefit. There are many skills that benefit from being able to move forward quickly through all kinds of terrain, something humans are clearly adapted to do as evidenced by both physical attributes and the way the human brain processes information.
why do lifter faggits say that the human body is meant to lift heavy? they reference like 3 famous lifters then and then make up this big fantasy story about humans lifting hundreds of pounds over their heads at once. just because muscles happen to grow under stress doesn't mean we are designed to lift heavy and get stronger. literally everyone i know who has lifted for most of their life has completely fucked up body image and personality issues. it's all bullshit, humans have hands and muscles for sitting around and eating. shut the fuck up about your one rep max
Being able to process and digest several thousand calories of meat per day in itself is super impressive for the amount of mobility we have. Large predators that eat meat in those proportions have really slow metabolisms so they can conserve energy. They tend to not move around much, they sleep a lot. Humans by comparison are perfectly balanced performance machines.
Apex, my man. Apex.
I normally don't ever post but :
> Humans weren't meant to live as long as we do now.
most retarded claim I've ever read.
I actually agree with OP. Humans aren't built for running, we are the slowest animal out there.
humans are closely related to apes so at most we are meant to use upper body strength for climbing trees, balancing and that kind of shit.
how do you think humans got to the point of tool-making? By magically appearing in Eden? Not all tools fly through the air with enough force and technological advancement to kill something? We had feet and legs before we figured out the bow and shit. Persistence hunting is not perfect, which is why when people figured out that advanced tools increased success rate for killing, focus shifted to tools that could kill stealthily from greater distances.
Because we're all built like Dennis Kimetto
Six foot naut, 128 pounds
We can all run a 2:02:58 marathon on pavement in running shoes in a temperate climate while people hand out water every few miles and while we are abusing our all-natty steroids and stimulants and blood doping.
I think the idea was that we ambush a prey like a horse or whatever, throw a spear at it and then run after it until it collapses from bloodloss or whatever.
Trust me I'm a scientist or some shit.
We live in the first world you cunts, nothing is useful anymore.
You can be zyzz sized running 4:30 miles benching 350 and climbing 5.13, specialization Is for insects
Bodybuilding fucks you up long term
Powerlifting fucks you up long term
Ultra-marathoning fucks you up long term
These are things we already know
Swimming might be one of the only sports that doesn't destroy your body, and even then the possibility of repetitive strain injuries is high
Just read up what the ancient world had tow rite about distance running. Nothing has changed since then. We can finally put this topic to rest.
They wrote it's unnatural and harmful to the extreme, btw.
we're better at short-medium distance sprints, and hunting is also more geared around just that
any animal that hunts is either fast enough to catch their prey with force or smart enough to sneak up on them - very rarely would animals literally run for miles right on the coattails of their prey
If humans used to run extremely long distances hunting for food, then how much fucking food they managed to salvage and how much they actually ate?
How the fuck would they maintain even an auschwitz-tier body if they ran long distances erryday allday while eating nothing but meat and shit like roots and dirt?
They'd have all died of constipation from getting over 3000kcal a day from just meat.
You're full of shit
It wasn't even an opinion, it's a god damn fact that sled dogs have more endurance than humans, just because we selectively breed them to be that way doesn't make it any less true
you're being purposefully idiotic I hope.
I'm talking about anatomy. Within related groups, predators have similar anatomies, and since we're talking about terrestrial mammalian predators, dogs and cats are a good example of similar shit for similar purposes. We are bipedal, have specialized ligamentation in our legs and upper body, have flat feet with arches, no fur, short face, and small ears. We do not hunt like other predators because we have adapted to hunt differently to ensure that we can outcompete.
inuits probably wouldn't need as much calories as some nigger running "long distances all the time" would
Humans have posted competitive times with horses occasionally winning
As the distance increases, generally humans are able to post more wins.
>inb4 humans are slower therefore horses are better at all running
Thats cherrypicking this is only one set distance you have to look at longer races to truly determine who is the better long distance runner because humans and horses regularly participate in races from 50-100miles while this is only about 22miles.
Also the comparison between times must be made, if you acknowledge horses as good runners and look at the times humans posted in the exact same race and did a distribution of animals that are capable of running, humans would definitely be within one standard deviation. IE if horses are good runners, you must acknowledge that the data that says horses are good runners also says humans are good runners.
This article and the documentary it references clearly demonstrate that this practice is still in use. It also is a likely indicator of how earlier hominids hunted.
To clarify persistence hunting was the practice of where you run at an antelope, it runs away, but you follow at such a pace that it doesnt have time to rest or cool off. Continuing this until the animal collapses out of exhaustion or simply overheats. It is not a flat sprint, but a paced marathon, taking advantage of the fact that this type of activity results in more stress and greater strain on the hunted animal than the hunters.
>inb4 wikipedia is not a valid source of information anyone can edit it
Check the citations for each article then, those cant be edited and contain the same information as the respective wiki article
>You're an idiot if you think
>You're full of shit
>You're retarded if you think
>you're being purposefully idiotic
All of you millennials need to get the fuck out. Do you know how obnoxious you are? This site needs a 30+ age limit, prove is by not doing this shit.
Fucking reddit in here.
>google, copy and paste 2 links 5seconds
>write a few sentences 30 seconds
wew lad I hate to see what your workout looks like because if this is serious to you, you probably drive by the gym, look at the weights then hit the showers
>birds can migrate up to 200000 miles
>thinking humans are best at endurance running
>but its not likely that people did this in any great numbers at a point in our evolution.
Yeah, our ape ancestors and early Homo genus only did it for a few million years
Bipedalism made us slower in a sprint than other apes, and shittier climbers, its one and only advantage was endurance, which is only useful for predation
This is true. This is what I miss about distance running. I can only hope to achieve the same feeling through sprinting now since I'm trying to become a different kind of athlete
Also just the romanticization of my team, training and race experiences, memories from 8 years of my life
It's all these fat faggots with 10-12 inch ankles who try to muscle their way along with their calves and hamstrings without thinking about what they are doing.
Many white people have the wrong bone structure to ever succeed at running, so they probably shouldn't run in the first place. Their heel striking is ingrained.
>Retard actually think bows and spears instantly kill animals.
You shoot it.
It fucks off and dies somewhere else.
You couldn't catch it and now something else eats it.
You just got cucked by a wolf bro.
If the human body was meant to live longer why do we have reproductive problems around 40 and all this cancer? What purpose biologically does a 70 year old woman who can't have children serve?
To recall and retell popular societal lore, basically gossip. Now this has advanced to television, radio, internet media.
We have big brains which have allowed for odd means of promoting our genetic material.
I'd say if lore is capable of producing higher birth rates and reducing mortality, that it is a secondary biological contribution
I'm not the original person you were talking to, by the way
>That much wear on the joints would produce a lot of creaky kneed cripples who would get eaten by another predator.
Fairly irrelevant with a life expect of 30 (and I'm being generous)
there is nothing wrong with heelstriking
HURRDURR people who are running shoeless on mudroads since childhood use their forefoot
yes go buy minimalistic running shoes, the sport industry will be pleased by your money
running trails, stairs, mud, sand?
nope, a normal fit person will need almost no medical attention from age 10-65
at a certain age a pregnancy will be more complicated for a women
Why can men procreate until they die?
THIS FUCKING BAIT THREAD
i better leave
All hominini were persistence hunters. Humans are built to run long distance, lift things by posterior chain strength and climbing with their entire body coordinated for it.
Combination of those three and the ability to make tools made humans apex predators of wherever they went. Funny enough lifting things and being able to carry them for long distances enabled humans to be one of the best builders and unlike insects-the only rivals of humans in terms of building- humans can carry their entire bases with them when needed.
That persistent chase ability just made humans broken as fuck as no animal was safe since humans could base and chase as well as climb to avoid the only thing that works against a base and chase, which is a variation of stampede.
They human body is meant for running though m8. About all the wear on joints, thats all shit because the way we evolved to run is obviously without running shoes. We evolved to run on the balls of our feet, not the heels. This lets your Achilles act as a spring. Problem solved.
inb4 runners reduce impact. they only reduce impact compared to other shoes, not compared to barefoot running.
There are a fuckload of animals that are incomparably better at distance running than humans. Horses are not even of them dipshit.
Look it up by yourself instead of being an ignorant parrot.
What is opposable thumbs? Enlarged frontal cortex? Long distance running was a step in our evolution but much less important that climbing trees was to the development of humans as a species.
>literally everyone i know who has run for most of their life has completely fucked up feet and knees
the human body is literally evolved for like a 30 year service life
by that point you've had all your kids at your healthiest, and after that, in nature, you're supposed to be dead to rival humans or predators
a marathon pace will eventually cause horses and even dogs to overheat before hoomans. Obligatory bipedalism+ 95% hairless body + ability to sweat AND carboload+ highly efficient lung function = EVOLUTIONARY WINRAR
Because we are weak as fuck, even those of us at our prime in strength.
Pic related is a Silverback Gorilla e.g. a fucking vegan that eats spinach all day and never weight trains and could easily best The Mountain, Rippletits, Scooby, and Zyzz combined.
>You can't deny that sprinters and oly lifters are a much better looking expression of human genetic potential than marathon runners.
I'm not even a distance runner but WTF is that even supposed to mean?
plenty of runners and lifters look like shit, and both are a deviation from what the overwhelming majority of humans who have ever existed looked like ad libetem, just like fat fucks
Stop saying what we're "meant" to do. We're not "meant" to do anything. We do what we do to get what we want. Period. The body's a tool, not a temple as some would have you believe.
Aesthetics fits most people's wants. That's why it dominates this board. Others like to boast about their strength or power. That's fine, too, as long as it makes you happy. Running 26 miles quickly is cool, so long as you're happy with the trade off of having to be thinner and weaker than most people who devote themselves to lifting heavy weights, because it also means you can outpace the entire animal kingdom. What does it get you? A runner's high is cool. Some chicks dig the runner look more, and those tend to be higher quality gals.
Personally, I devoted myself to just get better at boxing. Not because I want to compete; devoting my brain cells to a more lucrative career seems like a better option. No, I do it because it forces me to improve on strength as well as stamina towards the practical ability to kick ass. It forces you to learn most skills that are very important to do virtually any recreational activity. You can also look pretty damn sexy doing it, too.
hitler dubs checked
>Some chicks dig the runner look more, and those tend to be higher quality gals.
I'm not a lifter, so I'm not defending their groupies honor, but are you saying that chicks who dig runners are somehow the better women? If so then what are you basing this on?
Olympic lifts would be stuck at 80% of what they are now if there weren't steroids
Sprinting- the 100m would be barely under 10 seconds
Distance running is impressive as soon as you grasp how fast 13 miles per hour is to hold for 2 hours straight.
Can we discuss the fact that there is NO BENEFIT ONCE SO EVER OVER HIIT/STRENGTH TRAINING, to being able to run "slowly really far distances" in a modern society? You are no joke trading your knees/feet for the ability to say, "I run slowly really far, pretty well"
>literally everyone i know who has run for most of their life has completely fucked up feet and knees
yeah, you know why? Because humans were originally SUPPOSED to fucking die at 30. Your body starts to decline, your teeth fall out, your gums rot, and you FUCKING DIE
but now we live forever, and people who spend the first 40 years of their lives fucking their shit are fucked forever
Biologically there's no such thing as a vegetable. Vegetable is a culinary category not a biological one.
"Knowledge is knowing tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad"
... That is not even close to being true. Average lifespan was 40 because it was heavily dragged down by infant mortality and disease. If you eliminate infant mortality and death by pathogenic disease actual lifespans were very compatible with today.
Tldr people didn't die of old age at 40. People who died of old age still lived to be around 90 to a hundred. We just have more people surviving long enough to die of old age.
Even when you subtract the child mortality, you'll end up with a modal age expectancy of about 40 for prehistoric humans. By the way, basically nobody died of "old age" (whatever that means, really) back in those days. You caught an infection or fell down a cliff and died sooner or later.
This is simply not true, if you lived to be 15 you had a high chance of living to be 60.
>An image board for the discussion of fitness
>Which is a better runner, a horse or a human?
Just.... just please, get better in January. For the sake of all that is Holy.
Early humans lived in tribes and would hunt as a tribe. Some men would lie in ambush and others of the tribe would scare prey towards them. Much faster and more efficient than persistence hunting. Then the kill would be shared among the tribe
Are you pretending to be retarded?
In spite of this variation, a clear premodern human pattern emerges.
Age profiles of mortality risk over the life span are remarkably similar. The
mortality hazard has slowed to 0.01 by age 10, doubled to about 0.02 by age
40, doubled yet again before age 60, and again by age 70. Low mortality there-
fore persists until about age 40, when mortality acceleration becomes evident.
expected future years of life remaining (ex), conditional
on living to each age, for the human groups with the most reliable data and
for wild and captive chimpanzees. While there is significant variation across
human groups in life expectancy at early ages, there is significant conver-
gence after about age 30. With the exception of the Hiwi, who have over 10
fewer years remaining during early ages and over 5 fewer years remaining
during adulthood, and of the Hadza, whose life expectancy at each age is
about 2 years longer than the rest at most adult ages, all other groups, in-
cluding eighteenth-century Sweden, are hardly distinguishable from one
another. Figure 3 also shows that at age 40, the expected age at death is
about 63–66 (i.e., 23–26 additional expected years of life), whereas by age
65, expected age at death is only
The real endurance winner is bicycles. Once those evolve brains watch out. A bicycle carrying a human can travel over 500 miles in a 24 hour period. Imagine if it didn't have 150lbs of human on it's 10lbs frame.
Isn't it just a common misconception? I think humans are very good at endurance and walking, but it's jogging that's retarded. You either walk or run/sprint but jogging is just very inefficient. Why would you ever cross long distances jogging when it's more energy efficient to walk the same distance? If it's to catch animals then whoop di fucking doo welcome to the club of failures.
Life expectancies from the past are lowered by a high infant mortality rate. If you survived the first fee years of life, living into your 60s and 70s was normal. Even 80s would not have been completely unheard of.
Living past the optimal reproduction age has a lot of benefits for the tribe. The more people you have around to raise children, gather berries, build shelter etc while the young and middle aged men are out hunting, the more the tribe will thrive. If everyone just dropped dead at the age of 40, early human tribes would be missing out on a huge resource of manpower that maybe isn't able to hunt, but can still do all sorts of other useful tasks. Even an 80 year old great grandmother can weave baskets and shit.
Good luck explaining that to retards, no amount of evidence can convince them because MUH 12 year old were grandfathers and people died when they were 15 and a half AND I AM BEING GENEROUS!
Ex distance runner here, this is mostly true.
Most distance runners suck at cycling and swimming.
Then again the same can be said for most athletes including cyclists and swimmers.
Smart athletes like Alan Webb weight train and distance run.
If you aren't familiar with Alan Webb, he holds the American mile run record at 3:46. He benches 250 pounds at 145 pounds 5'9"