>>35749973 Kinda sad she has better form than most of the guys at my gym. It hurts to watch feet on the bench presses, shoulder impingement presses and guys having to lift their ass to get 2 plates up.
>>35750013 It's sad that this is real. In Eastern Europe most gyms are filled with former athletes or guys who used to do sports in the military. They turn the high-bar squat into a guillotine because they don't wear squat shoes and don't have the mobility to pull it off. They bounce the bar off their chest when benching, half-rep it, put their feet on the bench - everything dumb you can expect. If you start using an aggressive arch like I am doing because I have the flexibility to pull it off you will have to spend 10 min explaining why this is the correct way to do it. Also don't let them see you doing pause or competition time bench - that hurts their ego the most. Thank fuck I found a good powerlifting gym, filled with autismos, lawyers and former oly lifters.
>>35752720 her technique sucks shit ROM is important for strength if you're only pushing the bar 3cm, then you're not making a huge difference on the muscle fibres you have, and even if you do 10000 reps of 3cm 2pl8, you've isolated muscles, whereas bench pressing is a compound exercise
>>35752720 Powerlifting is a sport about min-maxing the number. It's hard to properly define a rule for "okay you can only arch this amount", so PLers push it to the limit so long as they keep their ass on the bench. Meanwhile for building strength and size you want more range of motion.
>>35752735 >her technique sucks shit >competition-approved >judges won't give her flack Yeah bud whatever. It's dumb to put yourself in an inefficient position when trying to lift heavy weight. Either learn to arch like her or stop complaining.
>>35752861 >B-but muh muscle contraction >you are fat >Y-yeah I am 195 cm/75 kg bruh, try again. Learn to train for your purposes than talk shit. If you are a powerlifter there is no reason not to arch your back. If you train for bodybuilding/aesthetics you shouldn't have an excessive arch.
what is proper scapula position if you have no arch at all you aren't using your leverage properly and if you ever get to bench as heavy as I can (you wont because of your shit form) you'll hurt yourself eventually.
>>35752981 You still going at this? Full ROM in powerlifting is benching without the judges giving you flack. Get it? If it is allowed in competition, you do it - there is no reason not to. For bodybuilding you can do whatever as long as you grow.
>long dstance runner I was doing rock-climbing bud but I switched to PL because I found lifting more fun than hanging from rocks all day.
>>35752992 Nah bud it's reachable but you need patience. If you are serious start with Powerlifting To Win's novice program and when you get through the intermediate part go and train and get coached by real powerlifters. It takes time and patience that is all bud.
>>35753049 >rockclimbing This isn't something you decide to do out of the blue. Start with the artificial walls and see how you feel about it. It is also a very big drain on your money and a weekend of it was eating up 2/3 of my salary. I also work FT so it was also cutting into my career.
>>35753056 >120kg bench should be a thing of a single year into proper training. Pretty much
1.5 in at 75 kg: Squat: 180 kg Bench: 130 kg Deadlift: 210 kg I will go in and compete at the end of the year to see how I stack up against strong people.
>>35753109 lad, increased ROM can mean plenty of things, not just arching. feet up benching and close grip come to mind.
practicing the competition movement frequently is of course important, but doing the aforementioned shit concurrently will help you build more muscle and keep your shit healthy because it stretches the tendons and muscles more
it sounds like broscience, but you can see it quite frequently in the programming of experienced pling coaches
Powerlifting training needs to be specific - it doesn't make sense to train for a movement that you aren't going to compete in.
Benching with an arch is a lot about technique, it takes skill and practices to build and keep an efficient arch, it takes practice and time to find the correct bar path and how to maintain it under weight and it takes time to learn all other undergoing cues.
Benching differently in training than in competition for a majority of the time would lead to shit results and is really stupid.
>>35753115 You mean close variations of it? Any sane program will have you doing CG and incline. You are also comparing the programs of elite powerlifters to the average dork. Guess what's going to happen?
>>35753118 Friendly reminder that we train for strength and not for the beach. >>35753114 This guy >>35753128 explains it. To get an arch and to get good at a movement you need to be able to do it as often as possible.
>>35753160 No they stay average because they never learn how to do the movements correctly. Raw lifters are weak off the chest. Explain to me the purpose of them doing board presses and endless sets of skullcrushers and tricep work when they could be doing pauses?
>>35753149 you are ignoring training a weakness in your muscles then if it means practicing competition more? if you are lacking in an area in your lift and a flat bench can assist it why would you not? albeit i dont know if flat bench would assist competition but it could help a weak part of someones lift, yes?
A lot of PLers who bench with a high arch in competition will do a significant amount of their lifting in training with less/no arch. Not usually the heavy sets, because you do need to practice what you're doing to get it right, but often the rep work because its less stressful, more effective for overall mass and far less likely to cramp up your back trying to hold the arch for ten or twelve reps (and maybe some heavy work in the offseason will be done using a longer ROM variant, but not usually).
pic related, how does it feel to know that i just won my 4th competition while you still try to convince people on a vietnamese cooking forum that you are convident in your shit "powerlifting" body kek
>>35753188 You are still thinking of the Top 5% of powerlifters bud. For the first 2-3 years your focus should be on nailing down the competition form to perfection. I am not against doing curls or whatever but the majority of training should be on the main lifts.
Interestingly enough, that tends to run counter to how a lot of longterm coaches like to train new lifters. To vastly oversimplify things, it goes from relatively low specificity (for beginners who need mass, gpp and general god damn physical awareness as much as they need specific form work) to higher (intermediates, who already have most of the mass they're going to get and need to refine that into bigger numbers) back to somewhat lower (as it becomes about squeezing out the last few technical improvements and fixing weak points, also somewhat skewed by this being the point that gear usually gets introduced which changes the lift selection again).
>>35753220 You are talking about imaginary numbers and doing curls? At an intermediate to advanced level which is generally hit after 2 years yeah, but we were never talking about that. just the importance of assistnce for powerlifting, not curls. lol?
>>35753177 They get better at skullcrushers, bro. the average dork will improve anyways because he is dork. your arguememt is saying that well what if an idiot follows a pros plan? well then he will learn it is shit probs. but that isnt whay we are talking about. we are talking about flat back bench.
honestly, you guys really like to turn arguements into retarded strawmans
>>35753254 It doesn't or at least it didn't in my case. If you are referring to the Sheiko routines that float around the Internet, he has a lot of GPP because the guys that he made the routines for needed that GPP. I didn't need it because I was fairly fit when I began doing it. For the intermediate and advance stages you are right. Most of the guys you see in the gym are intermediates or at least late novices. That's why I said they should be doing pauses. I have no business giving advice to advance lifters and I will never go on to say that I do.
>>35753275 Yes they make them do close variations which I said that any sane program will have you do. GPP is important but a lot of American programs have you doing way too much GPP.
>>35753276 Your assistance work are your variations such as CG and incline. I think we can agree on this? All I am saying is that you don't need such a big focus on GPP which advance programs give you. If you are already on the advance stage you should be coached but that's another thing entirely.
Not so much Sheiko in particular (although the generic novice one he has is kind of like that) so much as the coaches I've been around and all the purported developmental cycles leaked from various countries IPF squads and oly stuff (the veracity of which is, of course, disputable).
I'd dispute whether the average gym lifter is really an intermediate, but that's probably a definitional disagreement rather than anything else.
>>35753332 I am from EE so I can shed some light on how we train for sports and competitive lifting.
>True beginner This is Day 0 for the new kid. He is made to do GPP for the first month or so because his muscles and joints are not used to doing complex movements such as kicking, squatting, punching, etc. The GPP consists of running, calisthenics and technique work with the bar.
>Beginner This is where you introduce a lot of specificity for the trainee. If you are a kickboxer you start doing kickboxing training, if you are a powerlifter you start being trained for powerlifting. Depending on the coach, you can have a lot of GPP - former armed forces guys will make you hate your life from it - or not so much.
>Intermediate Trial by fire. If you have a blue belt you will start competing, if you are powerlifter you will start attending meets, specificity continues to get ramped up with GPP being toned down.
>Advanced If you have reach this stage your program will become individualised and depending on that you can have a lot of GPP or none of it. I see guys who's GPP consists of doing nothing but endless sets of 15 reps for the big 3 while some have to do leg curls and extensions.
>Average gym goer Yeah probably we don't know our definitions.
>>35753902 It kind of is, but you measure it from shit you can actually see (hip crease) instead of Xraying the lifter at the bottom of the squat. >>35753908 Sorry but I believe the bench press should be a showcase of upper body strength rather than one of spinal flexibility. I don't even compete bro.
>>35753922 >I don't like winning >I don't like being competitive >It's in the rules but I don't like therefore it's bad You sound like a spoiled brat. Those are the rules of the federations that most of us compete in. If you don't like them, make your own and use whatever rules you can come up with.
Its also the rules of the IPF. Only difference between them and everyone else is they require heels flat rather than raised up. Which reduces the arching a bit but not that much, as one of the current womens record holders can attest given she basically can't settle the bar without touching.
>>35753944 >To have a rigth to an opinion, you have to compete >To be competitive, you have to exaggerate the arch >You compete because you like powerlifting in its current form >It is higly probable that you therefore share the opinion that arching does not look like a retarded way of lifting Therefore: >If your opinion means anything, then it is that the arch is good Thanks for your wisdom kind anon
>>35753968 >To have a rigth to an opinion, you have to compete I will give you a hint - when you are discussing competitive rules for anything you must have some experience of it. If you don't compete in powerlifting or don't aspire to compete in powerlifting you have no business telling powerlifters how they should train or execute their movements. At the end of the day the opinion of the judges holds more validity than yours.
>>35752992 Don't listen to /fit 120kg bench is a very strong lift for an amateur lifter and most people wil indeed never achieve that and the ones that do are mostly on steroids. Only on /fit you hear utter bs like " yeah 1 years of dedicated training and you're set to go to bench 120 kg."
>>35753996 Then set up your own powerlifting federation. What's stopping you?
>>35753997 People on /fit/ don't get over a 1pl8 bench because they do SS/SL/PPL and not programs or training styles that are geared towards strength. 120 kg is achievable for 2 years tops if you know what you are doing.
>>35754035 Body proportions have nothing to do with reaching intermediate numbers. Your lifestyle and priorities will dictate the speed of progression. That's why I said 2 years because I am accounting for a guy who has a life and a FT job. A college kid will be able to get there way faster. If after 5-6 months your bench isn't around 80kg then you must evaluate your training and technique.
>>35754018 I agree with 2 years but you need to know exactly what you're doing and keep focus on gaining strenght. It took me about 2 years before I even learnt/perfected the correct form trough trial and error and feedback from other lifters, there is big difference between "thinking" you're doing it right and actually "doing it" right
>>35754084 That's why you don't get your advice from Internet forums and in stead you either hire a coach or visit sites specifically dedicated to your hobby. Here's a tip that has served me well throughout my life - if something is popular then it won't work for you. It took me roughly 5 min to understand why SS - A GENERAL STRENGTH ROUTINE - is inefficient for powerlifting.
So hypothetically speaking I could just get 32 ZZZ bolt on fake tits that extend further in front of me than my arms can, and then I can make world record by just unracking and reracking 1300lbs while the bar rubs my nipples?
>>35754104 Yeah I agree with you but bear in mind I'm not a "powerlifter", just like 90% on /fit my main objective is aesthetics (low BF% along with some conditioning and strenght). Thats why I get a little pissed when people say that 120 kg bench or 140 - 160 kg squat is easily achievable. It's not without guidance or a trainer and mastering the form alone takes about 1-2 years for amateurs lifters, which /fit is
His reasoning, as relayed by the athlete in question, is that her bench was all leg drive and arch with very little low end strength. Improve that, improve the overall bench. And the easiest way to do that was with feet-up benching for reps.
>>35753997 What? I hit fucking 275 lbs/125 kg in high school. I was told my grip was way too fucking narrow, and I wasn't even the strongest person. One guy was hitting 315 lbs for reps. Stop throwing out bullshit. Mostly on steroids my ass.
>>35752971 >More like 120, but well - he is an exceptionally weak bencher.
120kg (265lb) is respectable, but nowhere near competition level unless you're a girl or in some sort of early teen babby league.
>>35752992 >are all you people on steroids? i never seen someone bench 120kg in my whole LIFE! only online and i dont trust most of them
Nah 265lbs is nothing special for a gym regular, even for a natty who isn't a fatass. I'm natty and at 180lbs can bench 305, but it's taken like 3 years.
Try googling lifetime natural powerlifting. You should be able to find records according to age and weight class. Not certain the athletes are all 100% natty but IIRC the elite fatass natural lifters achieve something like a 1.8x body weight bench, not sure how it scales for non fatass body weights.
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