>>35665212 >>35665212 >the ethical reasons for veganism are fucking retarded and that's about all they got going for them I haven't read a study where the vegan group hasn't been shown to be the most healthy. The ethical reasons for it are subjective I guess but to say thats all they got going for them is the most retarded thing I have heard from this board.
>>35665151 >nah, I only purchase meat from local free range farms where I've seen first hand the animals are treated properly. Besides, I'd rather not lose all my gains and lower my testosterone since "protein is protein" is vegan propaganda and a lie from the pit of hell.
>>35665327 This. I can roid my balls off and eat burgers everyday for years. Then one day I decide to be vegan and natty. There is zero reason for me to say veganism should get any credit for what I've accomplished in this hypnotical situation.
So unless someone has actual proof of success ( vegan eater and athlete since birth), I find it hard to believe.
I don't think it is immoral to eat meat. I do think animal cruelty is immoral. I do not think veganism will reduce the demand for animal products sufficiently to warrant a change in industry practices. I think if it did reduce demand significantly, we would merely see a reduced supply of animal products produced by the same cruel means.
It seems like a useless exercise. If you really want to fight cruelty, you vote with your wallet by buying only from producers whose practice meet your ethical standards. That way, you still eat meat and use animal products.
If you are against eating meat and using animal products because killing animals is wrong, then I guess you won't vote with your wallet and you will continue to tell everyone to live the way you do. In that case, I don't have time for your faggotry. You probably think everyone deserves a prize for participation in any activity, and you probably believe that surplus labor is performed by coercion and not choice. 420 feel the bern my man.
>>35665328 You ignore that these studies look at entire populations, ie comparing McDonald's eaters vs vegans. Vegans have to be more conscious of what they eat, since they can't eat much. So, of course they are generally healthier.
Comparing a conscious meat eater to a conscious vegan tells a different tale.
Nature supports the slaughter of pretty much everything that doesn't make it to the tippy top of the food chain. There is no question of morality.
If I have a concern for how my animal meats are produced, it's concern for myself as I consume them. That's my only motivation to clean up the food/farm industry to produce cleaner meat; because I'm going to eat it, and I want it to be clean.
Can anyone in this thread explain why vegans can't make it from a nutritional point of view? Beans/rice/tofu/protein powder can't get you all the protein you need or what? I agree that vegans should be supplemental b vitamins and iron, but if they do that what's the problem?
>>35665151 I'm not vegan because my country isn't a 3rd world shithole and treats the farm animals just fine until they fulfill the destiny they had at birth, which is to supply us with gainz. was it not for humans, they would hever have lived. they'd never run around in the farm with their cow and chicken bros through all their young, good years.
>>35665439 The only study that compares the two groups in your anecdote was a pubmed study comparing wholefoods customers. In that group omnivores were found to have the highest rate of cardio vascular disease and vegans the least. Life expectancy was higher for vegans. >>35665398 Cardio vascular health and life span in most cases. I haven't seen many in regards to body fat if that's what your looking for.
>>35665151 I've raised animals I've eaten in the past. While I no longer live on the farm with mom and dad, I still live in an area with many small to medium scale farms, most of which have the animals grazing in public areas that are easy to see. I feel no remorse for eating these animals, because it's the circle of life. These animals that I eat have a comfortable, healthy life, and in exchange, when their time comes they are slaughtered by somebody who knows and respects them and then fed to the local community. Living in USA may make a difference to many of you, but for me, there isn't really a reasonable question of ethics.
>>35665151 We would not be where we are today if we did not routinely enslave and slaughter animals. We don't get as much protein and calories from fruit and vegetables as a gorilla does, we require meat. AND MEAT I WILL EAT. WOULD YOU LOOK TO YOUR ANCESTORS AND CLAIM, "NAY!" TO THEIR HARSH REALITY OR WOULD YOU STAND UP ALONGSIDE THEM IN THE GLORY OF THE SLAUGHTER!? AS YOU FEAST UPON THE FLESH OF THE ANIMAL YOU FEEL THE TRUE GLORY OF MAN, YOU FEEL THE HERITAGE, YOU FEEL THE POWER OF GREY SKULL!!!!
Plants are sentient, living things that know that you are eating them. You are killing something any way you go about things. The only thing wrong with eating meat is factory farming and that is it. A chicken will be eaten by some other predator if you don't eat it.
>>35665151 hey man, human cruelty is fucked up. wanna stop buying 97.5% of everything? almost everything is made by third-world laborers who make 2.5$ a day. or is it slightly inconvenient to you?
hey man, human cruelty is fucked up. wanna give away everything you own and send all your money to some africans? you can feed 100 families with your middle class american salary. or is it slightly inconvenient to you?
hey man, pollution and global warming is fucked up. farming grains and vegetables has a massive effect on environment, much worse than animal farming. wanna stop eating grains and vegetables? they are unnatural anyway, you don't eat uncooked rice do you?
>>35666164 Comparing a raccoon who kills a chicken very quickly compared to breeding and making animals suffer to satisfy no dietary need you can't get on a plant based diet. Next time i see the raccoon, I'll tell him to stop grinding up male chicks for their worthlessness, stop raping dairy cows, stop taking their babies for veal, and not to kill pigs which share pretty much every trait we commonly associate with dogs. This is even worse than the asshole who justify a pet snake by saying that it happens in the wild, when it's a completely different scenario. Also animals rape and kill to spread genes, get resources, hardly any sex in nature is consensual, better not get cucked and do what the animals do. OurA ancestors were shown to eat a good amount of insects and foraged veggies but Muh paleo.
>>35666260 The majority of plants are grown to feed slaughtered livestock. Look it up, the majority of plants grown in this country are gmo corn and soy, to feed your burgers.what's u Natural about veggies but why the appeal to nature. Africans Re subhuman monsters and if Africa and Israel were obliterated, we would have world peace.
>>35666260 The UN'S studies on pollution found that livestock breeding and selling accounts for the majority of greenhouse emissions. Whe you can grow 4X as many plant protein grams as 1 animal, I don't get why you think that it's veggies doing all the hard, when meat consists of most veggie use, most transportation costs, higher food distribution charges IE cold storage... Don't point to inconvenices of everyone being cucked by technology and western hegenomy with a mix of savage cultures IE Africa and blame it on veganism
>>35666260 With the consumption of animal products you directly contribute to starvation in third world countries. 50-60% of the grains etc. that are grown globally are used to feed livestock, most of it comes from third world countries. Furthermore it drives the prices of grains etc. up in these regions.
You're conflating "eating meat" with "industrial farming". They're not the same thing.
Ironically, most of the people who can't stop going on about being vegetarian or vegan will actually recoil in horror if you tell them you hunt for food and say "why subject that animal to such an end when you could just buy meat at the store that poor deer didn't have to die like that" when a good hunt is one of the most natural ends to a prey animal's life possible, far more humane than them breaking a leg and starving to death or dying of disease.
While wonderful for me, I understand the wider implications of industrialized farming and disagree with it principally and would favour a return to more organic styles of farming and hunting, but unfortunately the majority of people think their choice is industrial farming or vegetarianism, and they couldn't bear the thought of an animal actually being killed in the act of eating meat, so they'd much rather go to the store, pay for their steak, and not know what happened in between.
No shit early man ate insects and vegetables, they ate literally anything edible- including prey animals when they could catch them because they were delicious and super high in energy, which they could cart back to the cave and would last them a while.
>Next time i see the raccoon, I'll tell him to stop grinding up male chicks for their worthlessness, stop raping dairy cows, stop taking their babies for veal, and not to kill pigs which share pretty much every trait we commonly associate with dogs. >Also animals rape and kill to spread genes, get resources, hardly any sex in nature is consensual, better not get cucked and do what the animals do.
Did you just try to tell me animals are more humane than us and that animals are more cruel than us in the same sentence
>>35666559 >far more humane than them breaking a leg and starving to death or dying of disease I think that's something that vegans miss out allot on. Nature is a bitch. Even industrial farming isn't that bad, when you compare it life in the wild.
>>35666374 >The majority of plants are grown to feed slaughtered livestock. Look it up, the majority of plants grown in this country are gmo corn and soy, to feed your burgers. if everyone stopped eating meat, equal amount of grains would go to feed people. cattle can live perfectly well on 100% grass diet >but why the appeal to nature because "you need to cook meat to eat it, so it's unnatural, vegans 1:0 meateaters" is topmost vegancuck argument
>>35666572 They also didnt necessarily hunt them. Our ancestors were mostly scavenging the remains of already killed animals, when they were lucky. They hunted easy shit like rabbits and wild pigs (idk how they are called in english).
>>35666549 No they literally don't, no, the UN said livestock accounts for 51% and transportation (personal) 13%. You and I both know you just feel that but it isn't true and I'm an environmentalist but ots retarded and I'm not giving up my hemi when it's negligible and I actually need it. Man even Arnold Schwarzenegger admits this that meat is destroying the planet. Read the UN report instead of citing your feels.
>>35666614 Grass fed cows also produce almost 4 times as pollution, say what you want about factory farming but it's more sustainable than free range small farmers and this is coming from a vegan. Cooking food is "natural' but who cares that's not an argument. A better "nature" argument would be that humans are not designed to hunt down and tear into animals, we just aren't built for it, even our test are pussy ass deer like canines. With this current population, you are looking at seafood and meat being only for the super elite, closer than you think.
>>35666572 Why do vegan faggots always have to go straight back to the stone age when they make these dumb arguments? For thousands of years, most of our ancestors have bought or traded meat from local hunters and farmers.
>>35666631 Then you can explain this. If the prices go up, wouldn't that give more money to the country supplying the grains?
More money, more tax. Where is all that money? Shouldn't that be turned into providing better education, better workplaces and stuff like that for the people living in the third world country providing grain?
It disappears through corruption and misplacing the money to fund, I don't know, terrorist forces or something.
So, uhh, if money were to be placed into creating more grains in that country, it wouldn't cause sarvation, no?
I'm no longer trolling, genuinely trying to understand how these countries starve to death.
>>35666696 Not true, meat eaters created the paleo craze, when really there is more insect eating in the paleo era than meat. Appealing to nature is silly when ethics, environemtalism IE not destroying our home, and health are far better. Also faggot? Says the breh probably ingesting animal based dairy estrogen on a daily basis and
People say that the gym is some sort of crucible where they forge their iron will online usually turn out to be unimpressive skinnyfats who have been lifting for a year and a half and still trying to break that 175 lb bench press plateau that has gotten the best of them for the last 6 months
>>35666711 that guy lifted for years on a normal diet then switched to veganism. he might as well put on a hairpiece and a stuffed bra and then claim that he got that big as a woman >>35666685 >Grass fed cows also produce almost 4 times as pollution what fucking pollution? farts and shit? they shit where they eat, next year there's more for them to eat. >A better "nature" argument would be that humans are not designed to hunt down and tear into animals, we just aren't built for it, even our test are pussy ass deer like canines are you fucking retarded? if we aren't designed to hunt down animals then how the fuck did we fucking hunt them long before we've even evolved into homo sapiens? we aren't "designed" to grow massive amounts of grain and move them across the seas and mountains. >With this current population, you are looking at seafood and meat being only for the super elite, closer than you think. Not in my lifetime so I don't give a fucking shit if me eating a fish today means that a half-nigger half-arab half-chink won't have that fish 100 years from now. fuck all of them.
>>35665436 Word. The animal cruelty arguments are poor. What about environmental arguments though?
The amount of land cleared and subsequently destroyed by raising livestock is unsustainable if we consume the same amount of meat as we have for the past 40 years. What's wrong with returning to the diet of our based farmer grandparents which is centered more on grains/starches and vegetables? Eat 4oz of meat instead of 8oz at dinner etc.
>>35666786 Vegans are just retarded when it comes to why people starve. People starve to death because they're poor, like super poor. The supposedly poor people exporting their crops are not poor (also ever heard the saying farmers never starve). There are other people in these shit countries that own next to nothing or really shit land. These people that own nothing are starving because their corrupt, infantile governments can't or don't want to help them. Also because they have more kids than they can feed.
Also America exports soooo much food, way more than it imports. We literally can starve countries singlehandedly.
>>35666982 The animal cruelty arguments are poor? Try watching earthlings till the end and keep in mind that this is common practice and hasnt changed. There is up to date footage everywhere, mostly by whistle-blowers reporting to peta.
>>35666982 It is important to do it for ethical, environmental and health reasons. You will never go back to eating the body parts and secretions of another animal, especially when you see it for it is.
14 out of 15 leading causes of death are primarily caused by the consumption of animal agriculture. https://youtu.be/30gEiweaAVQ
>>35667021 >>35666986 I wont be able to articulate it properly and it is hard to do so with economical theories, there are thousands of factors contributing to this like everything else in economy. Why dont just google it?
>>35667013 Humans are literally tortured, exploited, slaughtered and have their kids taken away all over Africa. I'd give a fuck about my own species before I start giving a fuck about others. And I don't give a fuck about Africans, so I sure as hell won't start giving a fuck about animals that literally only exist because we bred them to use them.
>>35667108 >Humans are literally tortured, exploited, slaughtered and have their kids taken away all over Africa. >I'd give a fuck about my own species before I start giving a fuck about others. >I don't give a fuck about Africans what
>>35667136 What's so hard to understand? I don't feel any empathy towards Africans, so why should I feel empathy towards farm animals, which aren't as intelligent, aren't as sapient and aren't as closely related to me.
Not that Anon but yes, at least pigs, cows, and chickens contribute something positive to society. Now it's not just blacks that are trash, any race can have their far share of trash people that do nothing but put a burden on society. But god damn if black people don't make up the 85%~90% of all of them.
>>35665151 Even if everyone in the gym went vegan it wouldn't change a thing with how many meat consumers there would remain. So what I do is, I train, and through that I honor the death of the animals who help my body grow.
>>35666996 Inadvertent death is different from systsematic slaughter. Those veggies are made regardless to feed livestock. so there's the death, regardless. That's an argument against overpopulation, rather than veganism
>>35667861 The ones that claim that they simply don't care are just emotionally disconnected, I challenge them to watch "earthlings" till the end. Only psychopaths wouldn't care after they have seen all this footage.
Earthlings: https://youtu.be/VlNXG1_gheI Keep in mind this is all common practice and hasn't changed to date.
>>35665151 Why is the fault of the corporations who commit atrocious animal cruelty fall upon me?
I'll do my part to reduce my foot print and all, with recycling, saving power, etc., but at the end of the day, it's mega conglomerates that waste the most energy and commit animal cruelty. You can let an animal live in comfort before slaughtering it and you can also harvest from it without being cruel, but corporations would rather keep a cow milking all her life and make the living conditions of all animals shit because it's cheaper.
A few people in the world going vegan will NOT make a huge impact, what's needed is a reform of these companies.
Also, honestly, a huge chunk of people really can't afford to go vegan. Vegetarian, maybe, but vegan, it's costly.
>>35667989 personally i think part of been a man is accepting your responsibility, not only to the planet but to protect those weaker than you and those who are innocent. Veganism is truly alpha, but its social conditioning that make people call me a "faggot" for this. There is no reason to take a life, (unless in a survival scenario) i cannot understand when i hear people say the ethical arguments for veganism are weak or non existent when they are informed. Its disgusting how we treat them, especially when there is no reason to do so.
But i understand i was a meat eater a few months ago, just accepting the advertisments and what authority figures tell me, and shunning change...i was truly beta...defines it quite well.
>>35667992 seriously, veganism is not expensive at all. You sound like fattys when they saying eating healthy is expensive.
And it does fall upon you now you have the power of knowledge. A true man accepts it and does his best to stop injustice. Or you could just carry on following everyone else, cus its what society and advertisement tells you,
The only reason animal agriculture exists is so someone can make money. They make a lot, they buy off scientists, they buy advertisment spaces fucking everywhere just to make sure you see the products every single day from day 1, meanwhile the camps are hidden away and every effort is taken to hide them.
>>35668080 My point wasn't "don't be a vegan it's not worth it," my point was that in order to see substantial changes with regard to the treatment of animals, corporations should be changed, since that will have a FAR larger impact that a small percent of the population going vegan.
Look at states that sometimes go into droughts: the government advises homes to use water sparingly, to stop watering their lawns, take quick showers, etc. But that is such a minuscule amount of water saved compared to the way corporations waste resources like water, because it's cheaper.
All I'm saying is you should be pointing your fingers more at the companies that actually do commit animal cruelty and spend millions on advertising and normalizing it, instead of at a few individuals on 4chan.
>>35667992 Vote with your dollar. It's the most powerful vote you have after all. I'm not into veganism or vegetarianism and I really don't care if my fruit is from genetically modified plants but the hippies are doing it right when it comes to meat. I fucking love meat from happy cows and happy chickens. I always get my meat at the hippie grocery store these days, it's leaner and firmer, goddamn delicious. After you try it, meat from animals who spend their entire lives in a pen or cage will seem all flabby and weak. Remember that King of the Hill episode where Hank discovers hippie steaks? The more demand there is for happy cows the more people will make them. The only thing better is meat you killed yourself.
>>35667992 >Why is the fault of the corporations who commit atrocious animal cruelty fall upon me?
You create demand.
>I'll do my part to reduce my foot print and all, with recycling, saving power, etc., but at the end of the day, it's mega conglomerates that waste the most energy and commit animal cruelty.
This has almost zero effect. Go get a v8, it won't fucking matter as long as you contribute to the worst industry regarding environmental destruction.
>You can let an animal live in comfort before slaughtering it and you can also harvest from it without being cruel, but corporations would rather keep a cow milking all her life and make the living conditions of all animals shit because it's cheaper.
You can't humanely kill a sentient being. It is unjustifiable.
>A few people in the world going vegan will NOT make a huge impact, what's needed is a reform of these companies.
All you can do is to go vegan yourself and create lesser demand for animal products. Our "movement" wouldn't grow if everybody had your mindset.
>Also, honestly, a huge chunk of people really can't afford to go vegan. Vegetarian, maybe, but vegan, it's costly.
Vegetarianism is a good first step, but it is just as bad. The following video is about the milk industry since vegetarians mostly consume dairy products. https://youtu.be/UcN7SGGoCNI?list=PLapFXMBeGeYA0KrRl0PCpcSSrH0bhLEoR
Furthermore being vegan is NOT expensive. You can be homeless and go vegan. Pasta, rice, bananas, potatoes are cheap as fuck. Just add veggies, fruit, nuts, seeds and a b12 supp and you are good to. You don't need fancy shit like Quinoa, Couscous, Avocados, fancy imported fruits etc.
>>35668167 or just not killing in the first place. You are conditioned...humans are not born with any instinct or desire to kill animals...You dont have to be an emasculated bitch, just against killing innocent animals....unless ofc you are stranded on a desert island or attacked, in which case il stamp the fuck out of an animal
>>35665151 Meat is fuckin murder and you should rethink your life if you still eat it. There are huge vegan athletes out there. Even if some animals die harvesting crops that is not nearly as bad as the willful mass enslavement of farm animals. Fish is not nearly the same tier of cruelty as farm animals so don't feel as bad if you eat seafood. Mollusks are about as sentient as plants BTW. Pigs are smarter than dogs.
>>35668195 >can get all the proteins you can in meat >without the cholesterol >superior huehue The population is waking up gold$tein, you cant shill anymore. You had a fucking great run, and you still have arm dealers so just let this one go.
>>35665151 The only reasons for veganism/vegetarianism I can get behind are the environmental ones. Even then I just think people should cut back on meat/animal products rather than cut them out completely.
I just want to get strong as fuck brah and a vegan diet doesn't support my goals at all.
>>35668341 do you want to go down this road anon? I can post more studies, from better credentials, from all of the hierarchy of evidence. Yes i know there are studies which suggest it isnt bad...but if you critically evaluate them then you will find dietary cholesterol is linked to our biggest killers.
>>35668080 >They make a lot, they buy off scientists, they buy advertisment spaces fucking everywhere just to make sure you see the products every single day from day 1, meanwhile the camps are hidden away and every effort is taken to hide them.
youre making me consider veganism... i have been shilled too all my fucking life, does this make me a cuck?
>>35668377 It's linked because those studies include people who eat lots of PROCESSED animal products. People in France eat a shitload of fat, butter, cream, fatty meat but are healthy because they 1)also consume lots of vegetables 2)their food is relatively natural. Low fat diets were always a meme.
>>35668482 I'm not going to watch your gay video, I'd rather just use common sense. People in the past were healthier and they used to consume a shitload of fat and cholesterol. Heart disease in western countries coincides with increased amount of sugar and processed foods, people have been eating much less fat since the 80s and it has done nothing to reduce heart disease. Testosterone levels in men have been falling since the 80s though, I wonder why that is.
Get into hunting. There is nothing more human than killing an animal and feasting on its flesh. When you eat meat and pump iron its strength becomes yours. Before we learned farming we were hunter/gatherers, and those people had far healthier diets than the peasants toiling in the fields who came after them. Do you want to be strong the way humans were meant to be or do you want to eat lentils and have to take dietary supplements like that douche with bleached hair and waxed nipples?
>>35668599 >nothing more human than killing an animal >children without been corrupted by society, culture and authority figures do not want to kill animals and more often than not are fascinated by them ok
>>35665151 I agree that animal cruelty is out of hand. Animals are the cruellest things in the world and should be confined to stop them committing the heinous acts written into their nature, and also they should get eaten to ensure that the farms don't get overcrowded.
>>35668657 There is no corruption by society, culture, and authority figures, it's all in your head. You're just one of those losers who has to feel like they're fighting against some imaginary evil to give their lives purpose.
>>35668493 This. We have humans starving all over the fucking place, literal death camps in North Korea, constant ideological warfare in the Middle East and I'm supposed to be uncomfortable with the fact that a cow was bred to be eaten? Fuck that noise.
>>35668614 Where am i wrong? The idea that fat is inherently bad is clearly bullshit. It's like how "experts" recommended that you eat margarine instead of butter because t has lower cholesterol, when it turns out that margarine is one of the worst things you can possibly eat.
Processed shit is bad. Natural food is good. This is the only thing that is absolutely certain.
>Where am i wrong? The idea that fat is inherently bad is clearly bullshit
For a start, fat in general being bad was never a scientific consensus and the US government never advocated a low fat diet. Saturated fats, sometimes referred to as "animal fats," and later trans fats, were identified as bad, and that's consensus today based on decades of research.
>Processed shit is bad. Natural food is good. This is the only thing that is absolutely certain.
In general, but you can't claim that for everything. Doing so would be fallacious. Saturated fats for example are perfectly natural, but not healthy.
>>35668761 Yet I'm sure I could find a study that posits the exact opposite. People in the past ate shit loads of eggs, drank whole milk, ate organ meats (fatty), never cut the fat of their steaks, cooked with butter and lard, etc etc, they never worried about their diet. The low fat stuff took off in the 80's and yet rates of heart disease have only increased, what's funnier is that the low fat fad hit Anglo countries far more than European countries, yet Anglo countries have higher rates of obesity and heart disease.
Eat a wide variety of natural food, avoid sugar, don't stuff your face (portion sizes in Anglo countries are far too big) This is all you need to do to be healthy, not cut out entire food groups.
>Yet I'm sure I could find a study that posits the exact opposite.
Well that's data from the CDC, so good luck.
>People in the past ate shit loads of eggs, drank whole milk, ate organ meats (fatty), never cut the fat of their steaks, cooked with butter and lard, etc etc
Here's the problem, you have a made up view of the past. The things you believe aren't real. You maybe watched a movie or read a story somewhere that gave you the impression that everyone in the past ate like lard-loving kings and suffered no health effects from it, and you just rolled with that idea.
>The low fat stuff took off in the 80's and yet rates of heart disease have only increased, what's funnier is that the low fat fad hit Anglo countries far more than European countries, yet Anglo countries have higher rates of obesity and heart disease.
As we can see, "low fat" never caught on. If anyone bought low fat food products, they ate them in addition to their usual fatty diets.
>>35668798 >if it goes against what ive been told then they must be making non issues like SJW, SENPAI, 3rd wave feminists and /pol/
climate change, billions of deaths of human and nnon human animals for no reason, human chronic illness, denying our true nature so somebody can make money... these are real problems which you can do something about
>>35669058 No, I don't. Traditional diets included a lot of animal fat. I live in the UK, people here used to eat something called "beef dripping", look it up. I doubt America was much different. What did people eat then? Low fat yoghurt and celery sticks? Ask your grandparents what they ate in the past.
What they could afford. Potatoes, bread, beans, vegetables, some dairy, and occasionally meat. If you were rich, you could afford more of the fatty foods, and then you'd suffer from what were known as "diseases of affluence" like obesity, gout, and heart disease.
It sounds like this website doesn't work for you on your phone, but for anyone else watching, here's a related video about the mediterranean diet
>>35669137 good for you bro, just make sure you are getting the right foods in...will be weird for the first 2 weeks but stick with it and i cant speak for everyone here, but the idea of eating dead animals again is disgusting to me
>>35666786 >I'm no longer trolling, genuinely trying to understand how these countries starve to death.
something like this >farmers make food and live off it >other people make other things and trade them for food with the farmers
>other people multiply in numbers >cant afford enough food for all of them >starve to death
in the west, agriculture has been improving due to technology and industrialisation, so it kept up with increasing demand. but niggers in africa can't into industry. hell, most of them can't even manage to form a long-term stable nation that doesnt succumb to ethnic and religious unrest all the time. things like corruption and inefficient governments dont particularly help with industrialisation either.
>Why should I believe your studies and not these studies?
If you're talking to me, not sure what studies you're referring to. And the first point I have to stress again is that the US guidelines never recommended a low-fat diet, just a low saturated fat diet. The AHA even states this flat-out
>Does the American Heart Association recommend a low-fat diet? >No. The American Heart Association recommends a healthy dietary pattern, with between 25-35 percent of total calories from fats. That is considered a moderate-fat diet. Saturated and trans fats should be replaced with healthier fats, such as poly and mono-unsaturated fats.
The US guidelines recommend 30% as well.
The article is trying to make a big point of Americans being unhealthy after adopting a low-fat diet, but we already saw this isn't true.
>>35669288 I'm not talking about medieval times. Your grandparents would have eaten far more animal products than that if you come from a western country, their parents too. Rich people ate far more sugar than the rest of the population. That's far more likely to be the reason for increased incidence of those things.
There is simply much more reason to think that processed food and sugar is the cause of lifestyle related diseases rather than natural animal fats we literally evolved to eat.
>>35669288 From 1600 and up until recent times the staple in my country's diet was fish. Fish, rye and vegetables was always on the table. When all the rye was eaten people relied on fish. Everything is relative, anon.
>north, central and south america >africa >middle east >asia
savages, thoroughly fucked by the one and only civilization in every orifice they had. and in the end of it, the product of that one true civilization is you, spitting on the graves of your forefathers and willingly sucking the dirty unwashed dicks
Neither am I, that's just how most peoples' diets looked for a very long time. You got your veggies, your grains, your root vegetables, your legumes, some meats that you eat less frequently, and if you're European you've got some cheeses to flavor a meal. The average person wasn't eating sausages all day and frying everything in butter.
>There is simply much more reason to think that processed food and sugar is the cause of lifestyle related diseases rather than natural animal fats we literally evolved to eat.
"The cause" isn't the right way to phrase it. Processed foods and processed sugars are terrible, and a cause of today's health problems, alongside high consumption of animal fats that we obviously didn't "evolve to eat" because they do in fact contribute to so many health problems
>>35669423 >There is simply much more reason to think that processed food and sugar is the cause of lifestyle related diseases rather than natural animal fats we literally evolved to eat. >sugar lost me there
>>35669482 There are literally tons of people now saying saturated fats aren't bad, it's not one "quack". http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/saturated-fats-in-meat-and-dairy-produce-not-as-bad-for-health-as-previously-thought-study-finds-10450663.html
You have a vested interest in believing otherwise because of your ethical beliefs.
>>35665151 Here's my argument: I DO NOT CARE about animal suffering. Why the fuck would inconvenience myself and deprive myself of delicious food? >b-but muh animal suffering I bet you're going to vote for Bernie Sanders too, you fucking cuckold.
>>35669723 There are tons of people saying saturated fats are not bad and the idea they were was based on bad science. It isn't one quack, though obviously you have a vested interest in believing so because of a need to legitimise your faddy, unnatural diet.
>>35665765 It is, I suppose. My assumption is that someone wants to eat meat but finds cruelty unethical, in which case not eating meat would be unnecessary compared to supporting ethical producers.
It alsl has the added effect of marginally shifting market share toward ethical meat producers, whereas purchasing no meat or animal products will just reduce market size while not really have a significant effect on the profits of ethical vs nonethical production by comparison (you can give -1 or 0 dollars to nonethical and 1 dollar to ethical, or -1 or 0 to both).
You are right though. Not participating is voting with your wallet. I was mistaken.
>>35666982 The land/resource usage is a fair point, and maybe reduction or substitution of certain meat products is a necessary goal (insect protein, lab grown meat? something will come along, at some point).
The fact is, at least as far as I understand it, some amino acids can only be gotten from meat or supplements/dietary combinations that would be unavailable/prohibitively expensive in large parts of the world.
Moreover, many animal food products are extremely nutrient dense. Milk is a powerful example.
I think reducing consumption and sustainable husbandry is important and worth probing. I also think we need to be cautious about the whole "eat like our ancestors argument." Our diet is adaptive. Settled farmers ate one diet, and hunter-gatherers ate yet another diet, and there are many shades of diet within those two categories that vary wildly in time and space. Our diet now may be a worse diet, or it may be a better diet. Our past diet can and should inform us, but assuming it to be better because it is in the past is fallacious.
This also isn't what you might think it is. This isn't this news outlet going "this is what we believe," they're reporting on a study that's likely to get attention and give them views. The study in question uses mostly the same studies described in this study here >>35669482 and even the authors of the study don't agree that it should be taken to mean that saturated fats aren't harmful. Here's the lead author in a more recently published study advocating for the decreased consumption of saturated fats and red meats
You'll find plenty of bloggers and news articles reporting on pro fat papers because that gathers views. No group of scientists who have an expertise in nutrition or health have doubts about saturated fat though.
>>35665151 The difference is that going vegan won't personally benefit you, whereas lifting will. There's supposed health benefits, but even if you show people the science, they will still be too skeptical to change.
>>35666559 But How can we, as consumers, stop industrial farming if not by avoiding meat? Sure, there are labels you can follow like "cage free", but those terms are pretty loosely defined. Further, I'm skeptical that we can satisfy the current demand the US has for meat without industrial farming. It seems like collectively cutting back out meat intake is unavoidable if we want to cut down on factory farming
When someone developes a plant based replacement for soy that doesn't increase estrogen and inhibit test production I'll reconsider veganism. Currently a vegan diet without soy isn't sustainible, but a vegan diet with regular soy consumption is like steroids on opposite day.
Maybe if bugs become popular enough to be found in the grocery store I'll ride that train for a while. At least until the inevitable "eating bugs is murder" movement.
>>35670080 >When someone developes a plant based replacement for soy that doesn't increase estrogen and inhibit test production I'll reconsider veganism. Currently a vegan diet without soy isn't sustainible, but a vegan diet with regular soy consumption is like steroids on opposite day. Soy increasing estrogen levels is a brosience myth. Soy not sustainable? The soy you are thinking about is grown for animal agriculture. The tofu I buy is from austria (eurofag) but I dont like soy tho...there are literally thousands of alternatives. >Maybe if bugs become popular enough to be found in the grocery store I'll ride that train for a while. At least until the inevitable "eating bugs is murder" movement. wat
>>35669904 Lol, no. Hunting was celebrated and huge part of culture. And you think cavemen gave a shit about where they got their energy? Of course they hunted, humanity would not have made it if it were not for meat consumption. We don't have a direct instinct to kill animals because we live far removed from our natural state and our instincts are largely conditioned out of us/subverted.
>>35670080 Would eating bugs be sustainable? I know there's trillions of them, but each human would have to consume hundreds per day. Could we make cockroaches and mosquitoes go extinct if we simply trapped and consumed them?
You are mistaking sentience for consciousness. Sentience is a living thing's ability to feel and percieve. Plants have this ability. They experience stress which can stunt their growth. They can react to animals eating them by releasing toxins to defend themselves. They will move themselves closer to the sun if they're planted in the shade. Vines will even send out a tendril to feel for a place it can grab. They adapt to their surroundings in a hope to survive. That will to survive is sentience.
>>35670971 >As long as it's legal I don't give a shit about you, nor your retarded beliefs. If it became legal to rape your anus with a dildo would you complain? If so why? I mean it's legal, why would you complain?
>>35668936 >Yet I'm sure I could find a study that posits the exact opposite. I'm sure i could find a study that proves you're a faggot who like to rape little boys. I won't though, because that would involve me proving my bullshit opinions against actual evidence. and evidence is sexist.
>>35666548 >>35666548 >Furthermore it drives the prices of grains etc. up in these regions. You know what did drive up prices of grain? Quinoa being popularized in the west has made it impossible for the traditional eaters of Quinoa to afford to eat it. thank's vegans!
>>35671150 The original, or the revision where he changes a lot of the details? where multiple people have called him "an unreliable narrator"? the biography that has literally no proof for any of it;s claims?
regardless, this was before Un, Il was a nut but Un shut them down and executed the generals involved in their existence, this would be like somebody claiming Germany still had death camps in the 60's
Well that's the question isn't it? At what level does sentience begin and end? Is it just complex multicellular organisms that are sentient? Plants show sentience but they don't show the ability to think or reason.
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