Ask yourself this simple question: "If food companies could engineer their products to be maximally pleasing (addictive) and make you want to eat more, would they do it?"
The obvious answer is "Yes." T
All of the big food conglomerates in America (Nestle, Nabisco, Kraft, Coke, etc.) hire "food engineers" to precisely formulate "food products" so that they light up the pleasure centers of your brain. The ingredients they use also fuck up your natural appetite response... so you overeat.
This is all well-established by research and inside documentation... and yet people still accuse fat people of having moral deficits, like self-control.
Well, when 80-90% of the food in a typical American supermarket - and 100% of fast food - is utter shit that is laced with addictive substances (or formulated to be addictive), then what fucking chance does the average person have? The odds are stacked heavily against us.
In the 1970's you rarely saw fat people in public. Morbidly obese people were incredibly rare. Now fat people are everywhere, and I see morbidly obese people every single day. It's not like the entire U.S. population collectively lost their willpower. That's stupid.
So instead of criticizing fatties all the time, why don't we focus more on criticizing food companies for deliberately poisoning our food supply?
They don't give a shit that they are making people fat and sick... because this model is very profitable to them. We really need to call them out on their practices.
If the public learned to see their food supply as "laced" (doing this will take repitition), then more people will gravitate towards healthy, whole foods.
This would also push food manufacturers to scale back on their bullshit. It would be a win/win for everyone but the companies. It would be easier to find healthy food and stay /fit/. There would be far less fatties to deal with.
Why the fuck aren't we doing this?
This and this. If the companies were controlling us then why can so many people from /fit/ make it after being former fatties? It's will power. Without the caloricly dense food, they would have been skinny fat anyway.
I agree man but that's one of the problems of capitalism; the bottom line is more important than anything, public health included.
We could (and should) subsidize more healthy foods and stop subsidizing industry, and we could easily come up with a legit "food pyramid," but we haven't because government, bueracracy, and big business always end up in bed together at the people's expense.
My answer is to just take care of myself and those I care about, because the masses can't be changed. Human's were not meant to live in a world this technologically advanced. Oh well
>"they didn't force you to eat shit"
>90% of available food is shit
>implying the average person has a chance in those circumstances
Most people aren't even aware how bad most processed food is. Even the "healthy" areas in grocery stores are peppered with stealth processed foods.
How the fuck is everyone supposed to keep track? Especially when most of the messages people see about food promote eating this shit.
The overwhelming amount of blame towards America's obesity and diabetes epidemic rests on the food companies that have deliberately led us in this direction via food engineering and profuse advertising.
You left something out of your question - cost.
Yes, food companies optimize their product for taste. At the same time they minimize the cost of production. In short, you are greatly overestimating the food's ability to nurture an addiction. We aren't talking about heroin here.
The conversation around obesity only becomes a moral quandary when looking at the biggest of pictures. The easier answer is to look at the roots of emotional eating (which is in itself a form of addiction) and understand that problem.
A fat person has to completely change their relationship with food. Speaking from personal experience:
>started at 420 (ayy lmao)
>worked my way down to 260
>never addressed my unhealthy relationship with food
>half the time I was on a cycling ketogenic diet and binged like a fat person on the weekends
>the other half of the time I fasted every other day, still eating like a fat person when it was time to refuel
On an unrelated note, both are great diets if you utilize them correctly
>Severed my AC ligament
>Couldn't exercise and those old habits completely override all of my progress
>Emotionally eat my way back up to 375
>Epiphany strikes about 6 months ago
>Now I see food as fuel - something I understood before but never really felt
>Back down to 330
>Lifts are nearly where they were before my injury
This paradigm change is necessary to fight the obesity epidemic - not just at an individual level but at the cultural level. Your discussion starts with looking at only the lowest common denominator in the problem - cheap, processed food. What about the foodie culture? Binge-drinking party culture? There is no argument that there has been a degeneration rotting Western culture - it is not necessarily moral, rather it's spiritual in nature. Narcissism has become the spirit of our culture, due to the decay of traditionalism and the rise of social media. People simply seek something to fill their emptiness and food does a decent job of it.
>do you even food science journals, bro?
i am actually a scientist (chemist). my lab mate was briefly a "food engineer" for nestle. it's no secret what large companies do.
for instance, give rats a limitless supply of some whole food (without added salt or sugar). you will struggle to get them fat.
offer those same rats breakfast cereal as an alternative, and their behavior will change instantly. they will crowd around the sugary/salty/fatty food... even doing so at the expense of their safety.
the mice will reliably get fat as fuck. and sick. and develop heart disease and all sorts of nasty shit (by the way, heart disease is quite rare in hunter-gatherer cultures).
even though humans have the capacity for complex reasoining, our basic urges (like appeitite) have hardly evolved beyond what is present in mice.
combine that fact with the overwhelming amount of shitty food in America, and conflicting messages (i.e. lies) about what foods are healthy, then you have the perfect recipe for an obesity epidemic.
the American food supply is straight up poisoned. I have spent significant time in other countries (like Denmark, Spain, etc.), and I inevitably lose excess weight and feel healthier every time I stay over there.
Things have gotten worse though in the past decade, as more American foods have made it overseas. The EU is fairly resistant to this... but China is straight up fucked now. India too.
Biggest fucking retard
Your goal is to make fast food taste worse, so that the incentive to buy it is based solely around cost v ease and eliminate taste factor. Great idea fuckwit.
Let's encourage fat kids to go outside more by telling game producers to spend less time engineering their games for addiction. Let's make everything mild and half attractive to literally force the option of gluttony out of their lives. Lel
>even though humans have the capacity for complex reasoining, our basic urges (like appeitite) have hardly evolved beyond what is present in mice.
It's called willpower and self-discipline.
I know my habits will cause negative effects.
I force myself to not eat those foods.
I have control over my body
> I-its not my fault
That's exactly why you're a fat fuck. You're the only one responsible for your position. Unless you're literally being geld captive in someone's basement your situation is entirely your fault and came about through your decisions. Mind you even if you were a captive you could choose try to escape and/or attack your captor so it's still your fault.
I can't argue with most of what you said. But on the issue of "cheap" food: salt, sugar and fat are VERY cheap, as ingredients go. More substantive ingredients (like actual whole foods) are much more expensive. So the smart-money option for a company is to cut back on the good ingredients, and replace them with cheap, addictive ones.
They literally engineer salt so that it has the maximum "burst of flavor" for the product in question. They manipulate fats so that they have a better "mouth feel" (trans fats have this property). They add sugar to fucking everything because there are a number of studies out there which suggest that sugar is more addictive to mice than cocaine.
When you dieted, did you ever try COMPLETELY removing ALL added sugar from your diet? It's better if you take it to the extreme and go on a 10-day regimine without sweet fruits either.
Eat chicken, non-starchy vegetables and nuts/olives. Your appetite will "reboot" itself such that you won't ever WANT to gorge or overeat. I DARE YOU to gorge on rotisserie chicken and vegetables. It is physically painful to do this. Then try gorging on cookies or some other snack. You can gorge all day long.
The most alarming change you will notice if you restrict your diet in the above manner is the withdrawals. Sugar withdrawal is fucking horrible. It's a real thing. But once it is over... your relationship towards food will be reset.
It really is an eye-opening experience. Even fucking spices and seasonings are loaded with shit that makes you want to overeat.
We have been set up to fail. Do you think people suddenly lost their ability to "put down the fork" in the late 70's/early 80's? Because that is around the time that Americans starting becoming fat en-masse. It's also precisely when Big Food really stepped up their "food engineering" efforts... and really stepped up their advertising of sugary breakfast cereals (and other foods) to children.
We are being fucked.
>In the 1970's you rarely saw fat people in public. Morbidly obese people were incredibly rare. Now fat people are everywhere, and I see morbidly obese people every single day. It's not like the entire U.S. population collectively lost their willpower. That's stupid.
Damn, you hit the nail on the head.
People keep attributing the rise of obesity to the internet, or video games, or smart phones, or whatever. It has nothing to do with anything of those things. People in the 1970's sat around and watched TV and listened to the radio. People have always been lazy.
It's the food that's changed, not human behavior.
Willpower and self-discipline are definitely needed to break oneself out of shitty, processed foods. But people need to be properly INFORMED in order to do this. Right now, people are being largely MISINFORMED about the health contents of foods.
Even people who are "informed" generally aren't aware of just HOW BAD almost all processed food is for them. It is practically toxic. Furthermore, even a well-intentioned buyer can easily get duped by misleading packaging/advertising.
How the fuck does willpower factor heavily into this equation, when people are grossly misinformed... and even when they do become more informed, they have to go out of their way to get the right foods.
If I were to eat mindlessly in America ('mindlessly' is how we are evolutionarily programmed), I would get fat in no time.
If I were to eat mindlessly in Denmark (eat as the locals do), I would either remain healthy or lose fat - depending on my starting point.
Either way I feel a lot healthier in Denmark. Or Spain. Or Portugal. Or even the fucking UK.
Our food supply in the U.S. has been thoroughly corrupted.
I *personally* know which foods are bad for me.
I am also highly educated, and have sunk a lot of hours into researching this issue. This is why I am no longer fat.
The average person struggles to read The New York Times. How the fuck are they supposed to get on my level?
Ask yourself this simple question: "If tobacco companies could engineer their products to be maximally pleasing (addictive) and make you want to smoke more, would they do it?"
The obvious answer is "Yes."
Doesn't change the fact that smoking is a choice and only people who lack discipline continue to smoke.
The average person might not be able to understand enough about fitness to get shredded, but even a fucking moron knows that shovelling donuts and potato chips all day is bad for you.
Any idiot can know enough about nutrition to keep from being obese. Maybe not fit, but at least not a ham. Fat acceptance isn't caused by somebody being too stupid to understand basic nutrition, it's caused by willful ignorance. They know they're full of shit.
Man, I agree that capitalism is a big part of the problem. But there are many other capitalist nations out there, and they are nowhere NEAR as bad as us.
The problem is that we have such a "yeehaw" attitude towards things that it goes too far. We say that we want governent to stay out of things like food... even when intervention would be in our benefit... and yet we idly stand by while our government intervenes on behalf of big companies by making it EASIER to fuck over our food supply.
What the fuck is our problem?
yeah kids really have a choice about what they eat
there's obese toddlers walking around now for fuck's sake
the food industry gets their hooks into them at a young age with sugary cereals, soda, candy, and all kinds of bullshit, and this addiction persists with them into adulthood
>le food companies are two le blame!!1
Obesity didn't skyrocket till the 80's, tastiest things in existence have existed for hundreds or thousands of years
Obesity (and OP) are a product of the Self-Esteem Movement, "you're perfect! don't change! stuff your fucking goy-hole you fucking human cattle" and so on
even "healthy food" today isn't exactly healthy anymore. for instance, we've crossbred apples and other fruits to have as much sugar as possible because sugar addicts will buy them and feel less guilty while eating them, that is until they become diabetic
>people can only purchase food by randomly buying products for sale
nothing stopping fatties from buying nothing but meat & veg
Why the fuck do you care how well fast food companies do? Are you personally invested in one?
I just want to be able to go on an extended road trip without having to go way out of my way to get healthy food.
I avoid processed food like the plague now. I have zero problems sticking to healthy, whole foods now that my appetite has normalized.
But this has also made me painfully aware of just how focused and mindful I have to be when selecting foods. And I have a fucking PhD in chemistry from one of the top universities in America.
We truly are set up to fail in America.
>parents buy kid some soda
>soda companies put salt in their soda for no other purpose than to make their consumers more thirsty
>the huge amount of sugar in the soda activates the reward centers of his brain and makes him feel good while drinking it
>kid drinks the whole case of soda
>he begs mom to buy him more
>he gets fat, develops poor health, low self esteem, and seeks more high sugar/high simple carb foods to make himself feel better
>he ends up a fat whale as an adult
Apparently this slav surgeon picked up orphans, cut their vocal chords, removed their teeth, amputated their limbs and installed metal rods so they could be hung from chains and sold them as living sex dolls.
I have little doubt it's bullshit but in any event that's the only scenario in which you literally have no choice in what you eat.
>we've crossbred apples and other fruits to have as much sugar
But that's wrong you fucking retard.
Selective breeding of fruit has revolved almost entirely around increasing BULK WEIGHT, further, the popular cultivars aren't new, the newest common fruit is the banana, Cavendish cultivar replacing Gros Michel the 1950s, this is well before the obesity epidemic and was the result disease rendering Gros Michel uneconomic, not nefarious scheming of Food Companies
>b-but muh GMO!!@
no major fruit is GMO
I'm not fat.
If you eat a calorie restricted diet, you will lose weight. No doubt. You can't violate the laws of thermodynamics.
On the other hand, people are not calorimeters or steam engines. A calorimeter literally just combusts food in a sealed container, and measures the heat transferred to a water bath that surrounds the calorimeter.
People don't work this way. A calorimeter is a very crude approximation of digestion. It tells only a small part of the story.
Sure, if you only look at calories and faithfully keep track of them in a food journal... then you will lose weight.
But people have gone for hundreds of thousands of years without food journals or having to rely heavily on "self-control." Even during times of excess, past cultures did not suffer from obesity epidemics.
It has really only been a problem since the rise of engineered foods.
People at that time cooked all of their own food at home the majority of them time, they didn't have Mcdonalds. Yes Mcdonalds existed in the 70s but it wasn't on every street corner and YOU fund it yourself by buying their products. You want to shift blame to the food industry but the same tactic for losing weight has always existed and will always exist, eat less and move more.
>only been a problem since the rise of engineered foods.
"engineered food" has existed for a century, obesity didn't become a problem til you fucking marxists came to power
>parents give into the whims of a whiny brat instead of teaching him how to be a responsible human being
Kids with parents like that never stood a chance, but yeah, lets blame the soda company...
Smoking is not necessary for survival.
That is a HUGE distinction. People can't abstain from eating. They need to make choices when eating, sure... but when 90% of your available choices are the "wrong" choice... and most information presented to you points you towards those wrong choices... then you are likely to fail.
Education is a bigger problem here than willpower. Also our politicians do the opposite of protect us from this disaster scenario - they actively make it worse.
>Ask yourself this simple question: "If food companies could engineer their products to be maximally pleasing (addictive) and make you want to eat more, would they do it?"
>The obvious answer is "Yes."
Agreed so far.
>All of the big food conglomerates in America (Nestle, Nabisco, Kraft, Coke, etc.) hire "food engineers" to precisely formulate "food products" so that they light up the pleasure centers of your brain. The ingredients they use also fuck up your natural appetite response... so you overeat.
>and yet people still accuse fat people of having moral deficits, like self-control.
There exists a chunk of people...
1. Not overeating bad food and having self-control. As long as they exist, by comparison alone, the other people even though it's the majority are deficient in self-control.
2. Who don't eat bad food at all (like myself). You don't have to get addicted if you never begin. People have ONLY themselves to blame for beginning. Only themselves.
2a. Unless they're children, in which case their parents should be penalized for negligence. And to tack on, no one forced their parents into BEGINNING to feed their kids crap, so the addiction argument doesn't matter.
And again, even when you factor in addiction, we wind back to self-control, in which most people are deficient. Do I agree they have less of a chance at succeeding owing to marketing and engineering? Yeah.
>But all the sweet varieties are less than 100 years old.
But that's wrong you fucking retard.
Further, new cultivars like honeycrisp don't have any more sugar than old cultivars like granny smith
>engineered food has existed for a century
Bullshit. Not like what I am talking about.
Take a random processed food. Look at all of the ingredients, including complex chemical additives. Those compounds didn't even exist a century ago. Furthermore, things like high fructose corn syrup are a recent invention... and exist largely because of government subsidies.
you also realize soda/junk food companies want this to happen right? to the point where they'll design marketing tactics for both the parent and child alike
it isn't just soda either, it's everything, a single serving of breakfast cereal today contain as much if not more than the sugar in a can of soda and about 99% of children wake up each morning to get their sugar fix
yet when you walk down the cereal aisle you see words like "healthy", "fiber", "vitamins" and all other kinds of bullshit that less "enlightened" (than you dear anon) parents will still buy for their kids
>Well, when 80-90% of the food in a typical American supermarket - and 100% of fast food - is utter shit that is laced with addictive substances (or formulated to be addictive), then what fucking chance does the average person have? The odds are stacked heavily against us.
Blah blah. Avoid the 90% of garbage in a supermarket. Avoid 100% of fast food. How hard is it? If you don't have the self-respect to learn what you're putting in your body before it goes on, that's totally on you. If you do even after learning how bad it is, that's totally on you.
>It's not like the entire U.S. population collectively lost their willpower. That's stupid.
Its willpower wasn't ever tested. Once it got tested, they failed. It doesn't have to be US-exclusive - people generally fail at willpower. If marketing and engineering were alike in some other country (all else being equal), we'd find a similar percentage of weak-willed retards who 1. begin eating like trash 2. don't have the self-control to stop.
>So instead of criticizing fatties all the time, why don't we focus more on criticizing food companies for deliberately poisoning our food supply?
Because companies have a right to make their products as delicious as possible and we have the power to not waste money on it and not stuff it down our throats, but you can do both if you want.
>If the public learned to see their food supply as "laced" (doing this will take repitition), then more people will gravitate towards healthy, whole foods.
"See" their food in a certain way? If they didn't think to stop themselves after seeing themselves getting fatter by the way, that alone is telling.
>People can't abstain from eating.
People can easily abstain from stuffing their gullet with oreos and mickyDs
>implying everyone has the internet
>implying people who use the internet should be expected to gravitate towards "health food" any more than some other random topic
Do you really think that the average person is smart enough to properly research diet and exercise on the internet?
I bet you have a college education - which prepares you for that sort of research - and you project those expectations on people who are simply too fucking dumb or confused.
>complex chemical additives.
The most "complex" chemicals in your average junk food are preservatives like calcium propanoate, which most certainly have existed for more than a hundred years.
HFCS is not magically addictive, you stupid fucking reddit shit for brains cock-gobbling cuck. Further, like most garbage in junk food it is used because it is CHEAP, not because it tastes good.
>food is fuel
This has helped me get back on track. Every time I want to eat junk food I always tell my self this;
My body is made up of the food I put in it.
Do I want to be made of bullshit?
>ITT: people getting off on feeling superior to inferiors
But that's true, you stupid cuck.
MickyDs fries don't taste anywhere near as good as some tallow or duckfat fries, but you can't sell duckfat fries for 99¢, can you?
Butter tastes better than partially-hydrogenated oil
Chocolate tastes better than "chocolatey" candy made from palm oil
Cane sugar tastes better than HFCS
and so on
I'm consistently amazed at how much more calorie dense innocuous household shit is, compared to the great demons of soda and junk food.
But to reply to OP I was 5'10 200lbs like a month ago ago and I've been adhering to a 1500kcal diet since Christmas day or maybe a little bit after. If that doesn't say it already, I haven't had to keep strict track and my weight loss has been pretty steady despite eating the same processed garbage all the time. Education is an issue, I agree, because so much of the information pipeline that kids are exposed to is corporate influenced. I am like you, I find it hard to believe that America collectively lost its will and common sense.
However, it happened to me. That's a shitty way to rationalize it but after that realization I had to be a little more accepting of the idea that we might just not have control as a people. People don't look at what they eat, they don't mind the serving size, and the common mind is still littered with misconceptions about nutrition. I imagine mine still is, but the fix is as simple as knowing one fucking number to look for on a box.
I don't get why there is so much dismissive anger directed towards OP. As a recovering fatass I think eating less has been the easiest change I've ever made to my life because it's actively not doing something. It's what an overweight and lazy person should naturally veer towards! But there is an issue with the food industry of America, and probably elsewhere too. I just don't think it's that they're offering junk foods filled with filth, it's the limited knowledge we have of all these fancy additives and whether or not our food is killing us through means other than obesity. I don't think science can be faulted for inventing superburgers that can chemically power the human body for the better part of the day all on their lonesome. That's actually pretty badass.
>MickyDs fries don't taste anywhere near as good as some tallow or duckfat fries, but you can't sell duckfat fries for 99¢, can you?
Duckfat, no, tallow maybe. McDs went from tallow to ph oil because of vegetarian/vegan outrage and lawsuits. Cost may have been a benefit later on
>Chocolate tastes better than "chocolatey" candy made from palm oil
Most people would disagree, I buy 90% caco and no one eats it because it doesnt taste good to them.
>Cane sugar tastes better than HFCS
>Butter tastes better than partially-hydrogenated oil
depends on the product its in.
TL:DR: youre retarded
I never said HFCS is magically addictive, you reading-comprehension-challenged fuckwit.
HFCS is addictive because it is a sugar. It is a problem because it is added to fucking everything. It's physical properties (e.g. viscous fluid) make it ideal as an additive in certain foods... where cane sugar would be less-well suited.
But as long as we are talking about fructose: it is metabolized differently from fructose. Glucose initiates an immediate insulin response from your pancreas. Fructose largely does not. Fructose preferentially goes into your liver, where it is converted into triglycerides (etc.).
This isn't a problem with fruits because of all of the fiber and other nutrients that slow fructose absorption (through the small intestine). But HFCS is absorbed immediately...
I'm not one to usually harp on HFCS, but you.brought it up.
You louse. You got some fuckin' neck ain't you. Reddit? Fuck off, you're revolting. Look at your belly, it's blubber, it's like blubber man, your fat. We could render fucking whale oil out of you. Like a walrus, fat walrus, fat bastard. You look like fucking William Howard Taft, you know what I mean? Stay fat? You should be ashamed of yourself. Who do you think you are? King of the castle? Cock of the walk?
>you can easily keep from smoking cigarettes! stop blaming the tobacco company for your lack of willpower! they're innocent in all this and should be left alone. they don't force you to smoke their cigarettes!
You literally failed to read the next fucking sentence... which clearly states that even during times of excess, there were not obesity epidemics. The obesity, diabetes and heart disease epidemics that we are facing today are solely modern problems... and they are concentrated in places with Western diets. There are many other counties today that have no shortage of food... but their people are not so goddamn fat.
>Hang out with smokers
>Smoke half-a-cig now and then
>Smoke the equivalent of maybe 10 cigs/year
>Enjoy them, but never crave more
have you considered that you're just genetic trash, untermensch?
Just how ass-blasted are you that I can take or leave something that caused you to "suffer extreme cravings that drove [me] mad"?
I'd wager pretty fucking petulant
So America is a bunch of drug addicted niggers? I judge drug addicts the same way I judge fat people. Have some self control. I can get meth delivered to my door by a blond bitch who would be willing to spend the night riding my cock with her drug addled hiv infected cunt in less than an hour .
But I don't.
Because I'm not a drug addicted nigger.
Fuck you, you simpering dickless duck.
>1/4 chance that someone picked at random agrees with both points
>implying a country of 320+ million doesnt have a significant amount of people believing this
>implying gun owners arent more likely to be fatties, skewing it even further in my favour
fat ameriglock detected. i can tell youre fat because you didnt actually make any rebuttal regarding these two colliding opinions - you just questioned the connection i made between the two
>but even a fucking moron knows that shovelling donuts and potato chips all day is bad for you.
Tell that to dirty bulkers.
When I was 19 I was stupid and bought into the dirty bulking meme. I ate McDonald's cheeseburgers and shakes and chicken sandwiches and told myself, "The calories are fueling my gainzz!! As long as I lift heavy I'll be hyuge!!"
You know what happened? My ass got fat. Not actually fat, cuz I have pride and was able to look in the mirror and stop the dirty bulk after I noticed I looked worse than before I started, but still.
American society is built on preying on the weak and stupid. It started with the Native Americans, continued with the Africans, and now is directed at people who can't think for themselves and are stupid enough to listen to "authority figures". There is so much misinformation and conflicting noise in society that your average American who doesn't question everything is pretty much doomed to become obese eventually.
Take responsibility for your own actions you fat fuck. Even if it were so, look at cigarette smokers, they atleast KNOW that it's killing them slowly and there isn't a LUNG BEAUTY MOVEMENT or some stupid shit like that, ENCOURAGING others to start smoking and others to keep smoking. And atleast people try to quit smoking, they might fail, but atleast they don't yell out ITS MUH GENETICS I LITERALLY CAN NOT STOP! ITS NOT MY FAILT THAT MY BODY NATURALLY WANTS SMOKE.
well on the other hand, healthy low caloric food is also cheap as fucking dirt in the US
eating a /fit/ diet with a lot of veggies and meat is literally killing my wallet and it wouldn't in the US
I feel as if it's false to assume that bad eating isn't a choice when the healthy option is also readily available
Just because addicts are addicted to drugs doesn't mean they have to use drugs. They say it all the time in NA meetings: you can't get high if you take the first hit. Same shit applies. The only difference is the body needs food to survive. Does that mean you have eat premade meals? FUCK NO.
Learn to get raw ingredients and cook you fucking lazy ass. You'll save a shit ton of money and make much healthier meals for yourself.
>utilized same excuses and rationalizations as smokers do
>even blame others for my smoking
>have moment of clarity
>realize how much of a fucking idiot I was being this entire time
>quit cold turkey
>today makes 6 years and 5 months smoke free
>still get wild mad cravings
>trained brain to automatically "play the tape forward" when craving hits
>it overpowers craving
Your analogy is idiotic
You still knew that eating those foods was going to cause you to gain weight, you were just doing it intentionally for muh gainz. And you knew that by stopping those foods, you would lose weight.
>90% of available food is shit
Maybe you're looking in the wrong places fatass.
There are entire sections of the grocery store where all the food is healthy and good. You just choose to go straight for the Doritos, and then come here to whine that muh corporations got you fat.
>no one likes 90% coco
Someone please explain to this man why this should not be surprising.
You missed anons point. Make 2 candy bars, with the only ingredient differences being palm oil in one, and actual coco in other. Coco will be better. We're not talking about direct consumption of an ingredient, we're talking about how it affects the final product.
If the bank lends you $100 when you make $100 a week, and you can't pay it back, it is your fault. If the bank lends you a million dollars when you make $100 a week, then it's the bank's fault.
Likewise, if some people are fat, it's their fault. But a huge rise in obesity, to the point where most people think overweight people are normal, is a break down in society.
That's a terrible analogy since the lender is always at fault. That's why interest rates exist, they represent the risk for the lender. If you don't think someone can pay back a loan, you don't loan them money. If you choose to loan them money and they can't pay it back, you made the wrong decision, not the person. It's as simple as that.
That's what I'm saying, its always the lenders fault, no matter the size of the loan. That's just the nature of lending.
Even if my friend makes a thousand bucks a month and I loan him $5 which he never pays back, its my fault for lending him that money.
The burden of risk is always on the lender, which is why interest rates exist.
You are confusing responsibly and blame.
I am responsible when my kid bites another at daycare. It isn't my fault that it happened, because I taught him better and I wasn't even there.
You can't be ignorant when it comes to subjectivity m8. Just because you think it's harder to quit doesn't make anyone ignorant. It's pretty ignorant of you to assume ignorance because someone has a different opinion though.
>being this stupid while at the same time not thinking you're stupid
It's the same thing. Kill yourself retard etc.
This. It's fucking scary how they do this kind of stuff.
I had a previous neighbor who worked for Nabisco as a chemist (wtf, right?) and you won't believe the amount of science that goes into "food products". He eventually quit, and now works at a pharmaceutical company, but according to him, there is more testing done on one specific food product to make them more appetizing than there is for a single antidepressant medication.
Food product profit margins are much much much larger than pharmaceutical, go figure.
Yeah, this. Healthy food is satiating, so you end up eating less, thus spending less fucking money. This is coming from a former American fatfuck who lost 60 pounds cutting out all the shit. You're fat because you choose to be, not because of the cost.
But breh.....I see a large package of unsalted Almonds at my store for 6.99, the salted variety is like 3.99 for the same amount. Literally, why?
I'm sure it's where I am shopping though.
Near the middle of this podcast they talk about proposed sugar restraints in the early 20th century that fell through due to financial interests. Also, how Lunchables are a product of the cigarette company Philip Morris and were placed at child's eye level, among other techniques to coerce the child to want their parents to buy it.
>being this ignorant
you've obviously never tried to quit an nicotine addiction, to say it's easy to quit such a chemical dependency is just plain stupid
nicotine is even known to be harder to quit than heroin
not the point. that is just one case of "healthier" foods, being over priced.
now if you just stick to fruit and vegetables though, it's going to be super cheap, and you have no excuse. It's the healthier other stuff that is expensive, like less sugar Pasta sauce, and junk you really don't need.
Most obese people aren't proud of being obese you fucking retard. And most obese people have been significantly overweight since the age of 6. Tell me that their addiction did not start at that age, and that child-directed marketing did not contribute. Tell me that the massive spike in obesity is due to a collective loss of willpower. Tell me that the majority of food products are not deceptively marketed to appear health, and that it's actually required to list how much added sugar there is on all food items
Post pic next time you go to store.
Also, I was more talking about like broccoli vs Doritos, chicken vs big macs.
Fat people will get a fast food meal deal for $5 because "omg so cheap! And it's an entire meal!" When I spend maybe $6 on 3 healthy meals I make myself.
>Mass-produced cereals made possible by massive corn subsidies and chock-full of chemicals which are profitable to produce on a massive scale are more expensive than food produced on a smaller scale, which do not utilize those ingredients
>Implying the food economy is not fundamentally a market of scale (profits come from marketing food to millions of people, and keeping them coming back)
>Implying that there aren't areas where quality produce is unavailable for a good price, on a short budget
>Implying unhealthy shit is not provided to kids at schools, because of money "donated" to districts by food companies
Keep swallowing the blue pill on the food industry, faggot
>it's no secret what large companies do
So now you're calling people fat and stupid
This is the dumbest post I've read in the last decade and the main reason it's stupid is because someone actually believes this
Sure, food companies are responsible for glamourizing their addictive shit products. It turns a profit, the goal of any business. However, getting fat is a choice. Getting fat, doing drugs, smoking cigs, drinking booze are all choices. it's easy to blame companies, society, or the government for personal problems, but the first step to fixing a problem is admitting you have one in the first place. Fatties SHOULD feel responsible for their poor decisions, otherwise they'll just keep shifting the blame to alleviate their well-deserved guilt.
yet like smoking, many food addicts develop their addiction at a young age when such reasoning skills have not fully developed and/or when they rely on their parents capacity to make reasonable healthy choices, and most parents don't see the harm in giving their kids junk food everyday
Stupid =/= uneducated in most cases, but most Americans unknowingly consume harmful/convenient/inexpensive food because this is America, breh. Calling Americans "fat and stupid" isn't technically wrong, it's just vague. :^)
>most fat people aren't proud of being fat
This is obviously bait.
I'm sure you've only seen 3 tumblr posts of haes and fat love right?
But when you see a fucking stampede of Fat fucks standing outside of a damn clothing department store protesting that they don't carry size 58 shoes or XXXXL crop tops or when they do that why XXXXL shirts cost 3$ more than an L shirt. GTFO fat fuck and stop blaming everyone but yourself for your life mistakes. I was obese as a child, started working out and dieting, while STILL EATING DELICIOUS OREOS and shit food but in less quantities, and now I'm 75kg compared to 110 like before you goddamn fat fuck ZERO willpower from YOU that's for god damn sure
wow you have a real strong grasp of numbers
about 2/3rds of the population is overweight/obese
what percentage of those people do you think are scootering in fat pride parades?
the world isnt tumblr, go outside
Yep. Then they come of age and have to face the real world, which will hopefully shame some sense into them sooner rather than later. Better a reality check than a fat-accepting hugbox.
Is your fat interfering with your brain and thus your reading comprehension? Let me say it super clearly, because maybe your eyelids are too fat to lift up completely
I've seen IN REAL LIFE many times, REAL PEOPLE that are MORBIDLY OBESE protesting that they can't buy xxxxl clothes or tht they don't carry xxxxl clothes in front of a Ross or another department store. Did you get that? I know you confuse tumblr with real life but try to understand, and if you're having trouble reading in between bites of your ham+cheese+double cream + jelly sandwich read it after you're done eating, but before getting another 50,000kcal sandwich ok?
Their shithead PARENTS get them into that junk. Parents old enough to know what a calorie is and what too many do to you.
Yes, the food industry pushes food. Food that people want. They're businesses making money. You have to change what people want to change the market.
How? I dunno, maybe better emphasis on education. I didn't get that much health ed in school... Researched it all myself. Maybe a better emphasis on parenting.
>Replying and not answering my problem with your response
What I wrote:
>"I've seen many people in real life who are obese and proud and in fact, protesting in front of department stores because they don't carry xxxxl size"
"The world isn't tumblr go outside"
>reiterates my first post in which I've seen personally many fat activists protesting in real life and not on tumblr
Your final answer:
>YOU DIDNT EVEN ANSWER HAHAH FUNNY TOP ZOZ
;) your fat is killing your neurons pls stop eating
>typing all this
Really? This was like 2 mins max and it's not even a lot
Are you so fat 2 minutes of moving your fingers to type tires you out?
Either way, now I know you're a troll, so see ya, definitely wouldn't wanna be ya
Eurofag here. This is why we regulate a lot of things here. Before you jump at me, I already know that people get fat because they have no self control or are not educated. The whole point is that humans are stupid, the average person is a moron or is good only in one endeavor which probably isn't fitness. We try to make it so that the average idiot doesn't have to take time out of his life to learn about nutrition or fitness, thus our average person is not fat(thou there is an increase of pressure from US companies). And this is better, for our population will be healthier and thinner. We are animals that need to be guided, sadly.
I know that you think that I'm a retard but think of what could happen in the future. With an increase of human knowledge we will make tastier and tastier food, thus i'll be harder and harder to resist it. Maybe companies will be able to genetically modify fruits and vegies to have more sugar to be tastier. The good vegies and fruits will have astronomical costs due to scarcity. Also more and more of the people surrounding you will be fat meaning that's be more pressure on you to eat unhealthy when socializing and it'll also be harder and harder to find thin people to have sex with.
I don't know what the fuck he's on about either. This entire thread is a spiral of denial and single minded fixation on hating the fatties. Considering all of the complex problems /fit/ deals with in promoting its own health I don't see why it's so difficult for people itt to grasp that the American health issue is compounded between our mental weakness and the FDA's gross incompetence as a regulatory body. We fucking hugbox grades of beef, for starters.
>Tfw I have never fallen for the clean eating or "muh processed foods" meme, and I eat all this shit in moderation from time to time and don't get fat
Corporations didn't tell anyone to gorge themselves
you some king of idiot? i'm 100% sure you eate them at some time yourself. Also, kids don't get to chose and you know there are a lot of fat kids.
And I don't see how regulating food companies has any detriment to you personally that you defend them so hard. Does nestle pay shills to post on 4chan?
it seems that a large consensus within the thread is that the parents can take some of the blame
also everyone ITT sounds like some holier than thou fedora that never made a bad decision in their life and, and was 100% nutritionally educated from day one, seriously grow up
>you some king of idiot?
No but I invite you to show me I am.
>i'm 100% sure you eate them at some time yourself.
Wrong. Try again.
>Also, kids don't get to chose and you know there are a lot of fat kids.
Then the parents are to blame, not the companies. The grammar changes to "No one forced their parents into feeding their kids trash."
>And I don't see how regulating food companies has any detriment to you personally that you defend them so hard.
I'm not defending them. I think they should be called trash as often as possible if what they're making is trash. But it's people's fault for putting trash in themselves, not the companies' faults.
>it seems that a large consensus within the thread is that the parents can take some of the blame
Again, not a company's fault that parents - who should actually be looking out for their kids - fed them trash. Don't eat trash and you won't face the problem of addiction.
>also everyone ITT sounds like some holier than thou fedora that never made a bad decision in their life and, and was 100% nutritionally educated from day one, seriously grow up
You don't have to be nutritionally educated from day one to have common sense. The moment one starts getting fat is the moment they should look into why that is. If they don't, that's on them. I'd take it a step further and say people should care enough about what's going into their bodies to realize exactly what it is, but even if they throw that caution to the wind, failing to stop the traction once they see things get visibly bad is on them.
>i-its not my fault, the food companies MADE me buy that hot pocket!
Fuck off faggot. They wouldn't make that shit if people didn't buy it. If you want change vote with your dollars. Buy the right food and encourage everyone you know to also buy the right food.
>You don't have to be nutritionally educated from day one to have common sense.
>my superior intelligence allows me to make highly efficient decisions regarding what i consume, if i'm drinking water and i get a headache, then i just stop drinking water, common sense
>Again, not a company's fault that parents - who should actually be looking out for their kids - fed them trash
Again. Companies want the parents to feed their kids trash. This makes them money and they spend money (marketing) to help make it happen.
>inb4 i'm so smart i've never fallen for a marketing ploy, parents everywhere should be as smart as me
I'm not this poster butt, plugging the shit out of this again. Go listen.
Any other bad comparisons you'd like to make?
If someone doesn't like what they're becoming, it's common sense to examine what habits are contributing to it.
Stop being weak-willed faggots.
So what? If you're gonna have kids, their health should be a priority.
Being more selective and more educated should come with the responsibility of being a parent, not convenience in exchange for poison.
You're jsut attacking the fat people, as if we don't all agree that they are responsible for their health
You still haven't provided any reason for not regulating the food industry. If it's regulated, idiots and weak-willed people will automatically be thinner, like europeans. I'm begining to think you're some coca-cola shill or own a fast food joint
>Being more selective and more educated
Please enlighten me. How does one become more educated about the right foods to eat? Reading someone's vegan blog? Every year a new study comes out redefining what is and what isn't healthy to eat.
You're proof that this thread is filled with a bunch of google generation shut in neckbeards that think they know everything about nutrition and healthy eating and believe that parents with responsibilities and jobs other than sitting around in their underwear doing compulsive internet "research" all day should know everything there is to know about healthy eating. Also not everyone has the luxury of time to make their kids meals containing 100% whole foods and fresh vegetables every day. Also try having kids once and see how easy it is to get them to eat right.
Also try getting 100% whole foods through school supplied meals. They supply the same processed crap foods as everywhere else.
I can just imagine the whole foods parent that prepares her kid's lunches.
>kid shows up with a packed lunch containing a chicken breast and broccoli
>all the other kids laugh at him while they drink chocolate milk and eat cookies supplied by the school
I'm just making a case for personal responsibility in addiction. Don't start and you won't become addicted. Similarly, if one started as a kid, it's their parent's fault for getting them started.
I don't mind regulating the food industry. I just wouldn't do it like you probably would because I want to factor in personal responsibility.
I think they should be allowed to put anything they want in it. It's their right to make the best tasting product and their job to gain customer retention. I don't have a problem with it being on the market, you see.
But where I'd intervene is with things like food labels. I'd include a section for things like watchlist ingredients (or do sometihng like change the colour of the really unhealthy ones).
I'd put an overall health score or something to that effect on each product's label.
I'd do all those things that heighten consciousness.
If it's a -publicly funded place- like a school, then I'd be happy if they completely banned the food there. For example, I wouldn't mind banning Coke and Nestle or whatever else you accuse me of shilling from being banned from hospitals, school cafs, etc.
1. There isn't a groundbreaking, fundamental and shocking change every year. The principles on the whole tend to be the same.
1a. Tons of research has found ingredients that are in the lead when causing malformed health which any idiot can learn about (i.e. too much fucking sugar -> cut the fucking soda, fattie).
People need to make a little fucking effort and seek to put their kids at natural advantages. Any time there's an obese person, they failed to examine their habits after a certain point. They didn't educate themselves. Examining their habits would've educated them as to what's causing their decline.
Most of your post was complete rambling and making excuses for parents and making assumptions about me. Feel free to try again.
We'd condemn parents for giving their kids cigarettes, which are poison.
We should condemn them for giving them sugar laden drinks too.
You asked how to go about educating oneself. I gave a perfectly good answer:
There are principles that'll never change. Abundance of sugar is an example of that. No amount of conflicting information you're crying about will dispute that. People can get a grasp on the fundamentals and instill good habits in their children.
It's that simple.
Keep making excuses though.
>le education yourselves parents!
>le responsibility fat people stop being addicted to ice creams!
>are you le fat? stop drinking le soda! you then get skinny!
jesus christ you sound like a fag
>food as fuel
I get a guilty pleasure watching "Biggest Loser", and every single person on that show has an emotional issue with food, and need to get over that to really progress.
>but muh god, i'm powerless over stuffing this burger in muh mouth! it's a spirtual deseeeze! muh willpower will not traet muh good!
12-step groups, that spout the "powerless" bullshit is exactly that: bullshit. It's learned helplessness.
Oh look it's the perfect male specimen who's never made an irresponsible or stupid decision in his life. Thank you for gracing us with your empowering wisdom of "don get addicted to foods an don eat bad foods". I will cherish your words.
Post body so i can marvel at and jerk off to your perfection.
Spotted the fatty who relapsed multiple times and needs that "spirituality" in order to not put the burger in his mouth. Why don't you restart your fourth step, fatty? Maybe then, you won't get a resentment and misinterpret everything as a personal attack against you like 12-step programs teach you.
Because the "powerlessness" concept comes from 12-step programs. You are not powerless. You have plenty of power. Anyone who doesn't is falling for learned helplessness. It becomes a repeating, self-reinforcing cycle.
HFCS only has 55% fructose vs. sugar's 50%, and that's just HFCS 55, primarily in soft drinks. HFCS 42 (%) is often that in processed foods, cereals, baked goods, and some beverages.
In that sense, it's potentially better than sugar. Just saying.
We don't have a lot of information on "times of excess". The Great Depression was most of the 30s, and before that they didn't have fucking common electricity. By the mid 50s, obesity was spiking.
Potential correlations? Fluoridation of water, the introduction of dwarf wheat (which has yielded consistently decreasing mineral content) -- now sugar, large-calorie (some low nutrient) foods, preservatives, etc.
>give rats a limitless supply of some whole food (without added salt or sugar). you will struggle to get them fat
>muh sugar and chemicals
Rats are resistant to fucking heroine and cocaine if you give them social stimulation. If there are studies saying that rats overeat in their shitty cage, then that's not the crux of research. Yet, studies showing this phenomena were in the 70s.
Former fatty here. Lost over 150 pounds and now am at my normal weight BMI.
Any of you ignorant skellyfags who think it was easy or that food addiction is a joke can go kill yourselves. Also as a former smoker I can say that the cravings for food persisted much longer and were much more intense than any cravings I ever had for cigarettes.
I was on strict ketosis for a while during that stint. And yes, I did gorge myself on rotisserie chickens. There was a point where I was eating 1 pound of top round and a whole rotisserie chicken a day.
I think once you get up to 400+ pounds your body's bio-mechanics are completely fucked beyond all belief. You can never actually reach satiety for more than say, an hour. At my worst, I'd go for AYCE sushi, knock back 10 rolls (all smothered with sauces), then go for ice cream, then grab a pizza a few hours later. If I was up late enough I'd top it all off with 2000 calories of 'mexican' food.
I still argue that it is mostly mental. While you're absolutely correct in your analysis of the Western food supply, I just feel it's futile to rage against the things which lie out of one's own control. It's much more effective to manage one's own faults and choices then rail against corporate conspiracies and genetics.
I was 330 pounds at 12 years old. When I was 8 my Mother's Mother AND my Father's Brother died in the same year. Both my parents have always been emotional eaters, and the breakdown of our family let loose the flood gates. My family ate fast-food for every meal for nearly a decade...
It wasn't until I took personal responsibility for myself, started cooking for myself, that I was able to escape that trap. Old habits die hard though.
It's the best way to look at it. That's why I can't vouch for IIFYM's any more, simply because I want my body to be made of the best stuff.
It takes about 7 years for every single cell in your body to die and be reproduced. 7 years to be remade completely new.
>Do you think people suddenly lost their ability to "put down the fork" in the late 70's/early 80's? Because that is around the time that Americans starting becoming fat en-masse. It's also precisely when Big Food really stepped up their "food engineering" efforts... and really stepped up their advertising of sugary breakfast cereals (and other foods) to children.
>We are being fucked.
While this is true, for the most part, one must also take into account how drastically our culture has changed in the last 40 years. Blue collar work and manual labor is frowned upon, left to the beaners to dirty their hands.
With the perfection of cable television and the advent of the internet the general population has become entirely sedentary. You sit in your car/the subway/the shame-train. You sit at your desk job. You sit in your car/subway/shame-train. You sit on your couch/computer chair.
My Father, in the 70's and 80's, would go play pick-up soccer with randos every Sunday - at any park. That just doesn't happen anymore.
So, yes, the food supply is completely fucked. The subsidizing of grains and sugar is fucked. The 'science' the 'experts' throw out every year is fucked. The FDA is proper fucked. And still the problem is much deeper then all of that.
It's rampant narcissism that is killing the West. Celebrity culture, HAES, gang-banger culture, 'real-housewife' culture, hipster culture, it's all soulless rot. It's almost like the population is killing themselves with food to escape this Godless, comfortable, air-conditioned hell we've created for ourselves.
The food business is simple. You put out products out there. Whatever sold you put more. Whatever doesn't sell you remove. What the fuck are food companies suppose to do if consumer does not want to eat the chia seed granola faggot? Put a gun to their heads and force them?
European here, he is 100% correct. Its the food that makes most people fat. Most people i know eat a desent amount of food but are not fat. there are not many fat people here becouse most people cook there food themselve. Whe learn in school wat is good food and wat is unhealty food from company's. only amaritards don't understand they get fucked by the food company's. God thank the EU's strict food and healt regulations.
as a fatass whos currently cutting. i only recently learned how to from fit. majority of people are so bluepilled and try to ruin others progress. all my childhood i was forcefed by parents. mom and dad constantly bought me pizza or made really unhealthy meals. they never tried to make sallads or sneak in vegetables. they yelled at me if i left food when i was full i had to force it down because think of the children in africa. they forced 2nds on me when i didnt want because leftovers are bad.
i wanted to enroll in sports but they were too lazy and just supplied me with games.
even in adulthood people spew myths. you have to constantly eat or you go into starvation mode. even skipping one meal is dangerous. only snacks are unhealthy you should still eat pizzas and such. you cant loose fat because fatcells cant get smaller. you cant gain strength passed 20 you stopped growing. even when i try to educate others they just dismiss what i say as lies and say i should be more source critical. no one wants to cook their own meals itsalways eat out at macdonalds. its always forced on you several beers and shots. the only way to lose weight is to become a proffessor in nutrition and dieting cut all your family and friends ties.