DL in SS

>>35570678

Squat progress drives deadlift progress, deadlift progress generally doesn't drive squat progress.

>>35570678
Basically, what the last guy said.

Also, power cleans are being used like deadlift-light days, since they work the same muscles.

If you don't want to squat everyday, you can do GreySkull LP, rather than SS. You squat less.

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>>35570678

The thing is, deadlifts are a major stress to the body. While for the rank beginner it's beneficial to deadlift all workouts, since the deadlift is still too light to be an issue, eventually your deadlift is gonna get heavy as fuark.
And when the deadlift gets heavy as fuark, it gets really really hard to recover from. You won't be able to handle progressing on the deadlift 3 times per week and it will negatively affect your progress on everything else.

The squat, on the other hand, is a much less stressful exercise to the body, and it's mostly a stress to the legs - so getting fucked up from squats won't cause issues with everything else (to a certain extent of course, beecause kinetic chain).
Not only that, but squatting will train the most important muscles you'll need for the deadlift. So by doing lots of squats, you are also training for the deadlift.

The reason why you do 1x5 DL is because once it gets heavy, it becomes very very hard to manage to do 3 sets without missing reps. Grip strength is a major limiting factor to the deadlift, and novices won't have enough grip strength and endurance to handle 3 sets of 110kg deadlifts.
Not only that, but by trying to do deadlifts in excess you put yourself in a position that makes you vulnerable to injuries. The deadlift requires your spinal erectors to be very very strong in order to keep your spine in a safe position. If you keep doing deadlifts past the point you would have enough endurance/strength, your spinal erectors won't be able to handle the loads and your spine will be vulnerable to injuries.

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program

in the beginning you should be deadlifting every workout until it's well ahead of your squat and becomes too taxing for your body to recover from heavy deadlifting. then replace DLs with power cleans, which will probably take a while to learn without a coach. you're still doing max deadlifts once/twice a week, so progress is still being made.

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>>35570814

Power cleans are pretty easy to learn to be honest.

>>35570829

A proper power clean is. The rippetoe style power clean is much easier, because its meant to be an assistance for the deadlift rather than about an efficient movement in its own right.

>>35570829
is this an exciting new 2016 meme or something? i've seen this post twice now.

power cleans are more difficult to learn relative to every other lift in SS

Yo guys, how do i drive progress on my bench on SS

Alright that's helpful, thank you everyone

>>35570807
>>35570814

You mention that early in one's progress, it's beneficial to deadlift all workouts- up until what weight do you recommend it?

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>>35570846
>>35570844

Cleans are very very hard to learn, specially without a coach.

Power Cleans aren't very complicated, the movement comes naturally once you get the details right (like keeping the elbows straight and starting in the right position, etc)

>>35570853

Read this >>35570807
You should be adding less weight to the bench once it starts getting hard. Adding 1kg makes it way easier to progress.

>>35570868

While there isn't a "recommended weight", since everyone is different, from my experience coaching a few novices in my gym, you should drop the deadlift frequency when you reach 100kg. You keep adding a bunch of weight, like 4kg per workout, until you reach around 112kg. Then you drop to 2kg per workout, and progress far far far. You will reach more than 3pl8s (140kg) on the deadlift with this.

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>>35570853

Also, make sure you are benching correctly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYKScL2sgCs

And make sure your bar path is correct and optimal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKhI-O4HI8M

>>35570892

Literally the only difference between a power clean and a clean is a couple inches of catch height. The power clean espoused by rippetoe is easy to learn because its basically an overcommitted speed deadlift rather than the power clean as taught by the rest of the world.

Cleans scare the fuck out of me, plus the whole lowering. Can I just deadlift in place of those?

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>>35570933

Well, the clean has a lot more details, since you have the third pull and catching the bar correctly without falling over can be a challenge and need lots of mobility training. And I'd say it's a bunch more inches of height kek, not to mention the heavier weights.

While Rip teaches the power clean in a very simplistic manner, it gets the job done and people who learn that way are able to power clean just fine after a few workouts of training the movement.

>>35570948

You don't do cleans, you do power cleans. There's no lowering and you don't do a front squat. You basically start in a more upright position and deadlift the bar in a fast manner until it reaches around the middle of your thigh, then explode upwards without using your arms and catch the bar on your shoulders.

It's not hard to learn, really.

>>35570978

If you think the power clean has no third pull, you really shouldn't be giving advice on it.

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>>35571003

You are overcomplicating the movement without necessity. And by the third pull I mean the one where you pull yourself to a squat position beneath the bar. Sure you do that in the power clean, but to a very very very small extent, since you are barely gonna do a quarter squat at all.
Sure, it's important to learn all the details of the power clean so that you learn to clean correctly afterwards.

But for the purpose of training strength and power as a novice that doesn't plan on doing olympic weightlifting for the foreseeable future, you don't need to look for a coach to learn a movement that will come naturally with a few instructions and cues.

>>35571045
>>35570978
>>35570892
Can you stop posting irrelevant weird anime pictures

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>>35571062

Sorry bby~

Rippetoe is notoriously deadliftphobic. A lot of people that want to be strong at the deadlift and/or pulling things off the floor (weightlifters, strongmen, powerlifters) will train deadlifting more often.

Almost never as often as squats, because of the heavier and more fatiguing nature of them, but certainly more than 1x5 every week lol

>>35571045
>>35570978
Heya you seem to be an expert in SS judging by the amount of contributions you do and answers you give relating SS questions.

Currently my OHP is stuck at 75lbs. I tried to progress by adding 5lbs/2.5kg using 1.25kg plates because it's the smallest plate the gym that I go to has. Whenever I reach 85lbs, I can do 1x5 normally, but fail to break 3 reps on the subsequent set, forcing me to deload once again to 75lbs.

How the hell do I break this loop? I tried doing 3x8x65lbs to increase the volume, but when I get back to 85lbs, the same thing above happens.

In contrast, my bench is happily progressing 5lbs at a time. I do bench 3x5x115lbs now.

>>35570933
>couple inches
>catching it in a squat vs upright

>>35571217

The power clean is meant to be caught above parallel, but still in a squat. If you're catching it at a standing position you've got yourself a muscle clean, which is indeed a bit simpler than other clean variants.

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>>35571185

The frequency is 1.5, so there are weeks where you deadlift twice.

And Rip has got grandma to deadlift lmao4pl8!!! so it works

>>35571198

First thing is, make sure you are doing the OHP correctly and pointing your chest to the ceiling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnBmiBqp-AI

Your OHP numbers are still very low, so you can still probably progress at 2.5kg for a while. But once you start getting around the 45kg territory, you will NEED to use 1kg instead of 2.5kg or you will get stuck below 50kg for a long time.

There are many solutions to this:

- You can buy microplates on the internet

- In my gym we have a few metal handles used for the cable machines, for doing cable crossovers/flys. I brought a scale one day and found out they weigh exactly 0.5kg. So by putting them on the bar and locking them together with the plates, it's a perfect 1kg increment!

- Another way is to get water bottles and tie a string at their top and to the bar. That way you can get even lower increments than 1kg, since you can just fill it with the amount of water necessary (each 1ml is 1g), and the plastic bottle usually weighs less than 100g.

- Other option is to buy washers from a hardware store. They have them in many different sizes and weights, so just find ones that can fit the bar and you're set.

>>35570978
By lowering I mean lowering the bar. I can't drop it where I'll be doing it. And it's a hassle to lower it safely

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>>35571227

No it's not, you catch the power clean in an almost perfectly upright position.

>>35571245
>The frequency is 1.5, so there are weeks where you deadlift twice.

Eh, deadlifting an average of 1.5 weekly is a good start. But the work is not there, the volume. You can handle more than 1x5 1.5x weekly, much more.

That grandma is using bumpers. And getting an averageish male to a 4-5.5pl8 deadlift is not a major achievement.

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>>35571263

Take a watch at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_drttm5r66A
It's 2min long and will fix your issue

>>35571267
>that strict form at 162

ridiculous.

>>35571245
The thing is I almost always seem to fail in the middle of the ROM when the bar is above my head. How can I do a set normally but the next set fail miserably? I'm thinking of fatigue and I should probably rest more in between sets.

Also, I can't imagine the faces of the people in the gym seeing me OHP with their cable machine handles, haha.

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>>35571276

kek the lmao4pl8 is a joke, that's surely not really 4pl8s.

SS starts off with the trainee doing deadlifts 3 times per week, though. And you are doing power cleans as the other floor pull once you lower the deadlift frequency, and squating lowbar which strengthens the hamstrings a lot, so you will be progressing just fine with 1.5 deadlifts per week.

But yeah I do personally think the deadlift could be twice per week.
But in the end it doesn't matter much, and pretty much every novice routine doesn't have high frequency deadlifts.

>>35571290

Klokov is love, Klokov is life

>>35571299

You need stronger lateral delts then.
Do lateral raises every day (and try progressing with them instead of sticking with 10kg DBs forever). This will make your OHP a LOT stronger.

But yes, resting between the sets is very important. More people doing SS rest around 4-5 minutes between the sets, since you gotta be full charge for the next set.

>>35571317
>Do lateral raises every day
But then I wouldn't be doing the program, right? Is it possible to just train my OHP with a slightly higher volume until I can finally progress on it?

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>>35571299

And by everyday I mean every workout, not 7 days per week kek.

The thing is, if you're failing the second and third sets, the issue is not strength. It's endurance. As long as you complete the first set, your strength is progressing perfectly.

To avoid failing the later sets, eat more, rest more, sleep more, and drink water during the workout.

>>35571355
>train my OHP with a slightly higher volume
Then you wouldn't be doing the program, right?

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>>35571276
>getting an averageish male to a 4-5.5pl8 deadlift is not a major achievement

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>>35571355
>>35571389

You have to address your weak points specifically.
And adding a single accessory isn't a big deal, don't worry.

Rip complains a lot about YNDTP not because you shouldn't add an exercise or two to improve your weak points.
He complains about that because what novices do is add a huge amount of useless, pointless exercises that will just make progression worse, and then they go on his forums and around the internet complaining about how SS doesn't give results. Not only that, but novices have no idea how weak points work and what they should do to specifically address them without doing dumb stuff.

As long as you are adding stuff slowly and with actual thought and reasoning behind every accessory, and don't go overboard with it, it's a beneficial thing and will enhance progression.

>>35571395
It is absolutely not. Any healthy male that really wants it can get to those numbers. Having a coach only makes it easier.

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>>35571355
>>35571389

Also, pic related

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>>35571428
An average male at 175lbs deadlifting 5pl8 is considered exceptional according to symmetricstrength, aka better than probably in the top 20% of lifters in your average gym. Sure, in theory any healthy male could eventually reach that weight, but in theory any healthy male could become a top athlete given that time. Most people don't have that level of commitment, and deadlifting 500 lbs+ is no easy feat.

>>35570829
True. I learned how to do a proper power clean after two sessions of bar practice

>>35571417
>>35571431
Thanks for the advice family.

What about my knees getting sore after deadlifts because they get hit by the bar every time I raise and lower the bar?

>>35570978
I think by definition you can go as low as a quarter rom front squat when catching a power clean, I know when I catch mine my knees bend ever so slightly so I can get myself comfortable under the bar

>>35571467
>according to symmetricstrength

so what?

>aka better than probably in the top 20% of lifters in your average gym

so what?

You're aiming too low and setting your sights on nothing. Aim higher and expect more from yourself and other people.

>>35570807
Are you infelgintensity?

>>35571502
You entirely missed the point of what he's saying, retard.

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>>35571477

The bar is not supposed to hit your knees.

The first part of the pull, your back angle remains the same. This is pretty much just knee extension.
When the bar gets right below your knees, you start extending the hips as well.
By doing this, the bar will clear your knees without hitting them, and your deadlift will be much stronger because of the bar will be going straight vertically without creating any horizontal moment arm.

Lowering the bar is the same. You almost exclusively flex your hips until the bar clears the knee, and only then complete the knee flexion.

>>35571499

There's nothing wrong with that either.

>>35571509

I have no idea what infelgintensity is or means, sorry ):

>>35570948
There's a technique to lowering the power clean without dropping it
1: keep your shoulder blades retracted when you let it drop so your upper back muscles can help decelerate it
2: when you let it drop think about flipping your wrists from under to overhand without any vertical movement so you can keep. Good grip on the bar
3: when it starts to drop Lee your back straight and let the bar go down in a path of motion similar to the concentric part of a stiff legged deadlift Or you can drop it into a hang position in the same way and lower it in the same way you picked it up but slower
4: let the bar hit your quads, they'll cushion the fall and takes the jerk stran off your shoulders and upper back


Works for me and I can power clean 155

>>35571543
I guess the problem is that I always keep the bar in contact with my legs, like sliding it up and down.

>>35571560

Or, you know, just lower the damn thing to your quads.

>>35571543
Do you have an image for the second half?

>>35571572

That IS how you're supposed to do it, you're just not doing the movement in the right order. If you extend the knees at the first part without extending the hips, the bar will clear the knees easily without smashing against them.

>>35571579
Well i pulled my rear Delt just letting the bar drop on a power clean and hit my quads without trying to apply some control with my upper body going for a 165lb Max once so no I'm not hair going to drop it to my quads. Power cleans with fuck you up if you aren't careful

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>>35571581

Second half of what? Lowering the bar? Here.

These are from the SS book, it's a really good book.

>>35571613
Yeah, that's it. Thnx m8.

>>35570678
Just make sure you squat to full depth because you want to develop strength in the entire range of motion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPXZq7qWob0