Should people be vegan? Discuss.
I wanna hear all arguments - ethical and health. Both sides can give me their best shot. Let's have an all-out debate.
If you're serious about lifting, a vegan diet will not work because vegan proteins aren't complete, which leads to longer recuperation between workouts. Ottermode is all you achieve.
>inb4 posting that Jon Venus vegan guy that has a great body, he's an exception and would look fantastic as a meat eater
I would say no. If it were possible to survive a vegan diet without grain, maybe. Our bodies simply process animal protein more efficiently than vegetable matter.
We should still strive to make the livestock industry closer to how our ancestors raised meat. The modern meat industry is a fucking joke from a nutritional standpoint.
Although B-12 is the only essential nutrient in animal products only, some non-essential nutrients are only in meat or only in meat in significant quantities. If you refuse animal products your diet is less rich in nutrients. If you want to say it isn't that much less or it isn't an issue etc. then you need to show it. The human body self-produces some of those non-essential nutrients but I don't think internal production should be relied on as the sole source.
Humans ate a meat and seafood rich diet for hundreds of thousands of years, to imagine that access to all that rich food had nothing to do with our brains enlarging seems naive - especially when you see the association of oily fish with less dementia.
It's all about the fish. Omega 6's are fairly easy to come by, but the body needs a 1:1 ratio of omega 3's to 6's. Being vegan means you can have this balance, but it would be godawful expensive to maintain.
Also, flax seed tastes like fish. I'd rather just eat the chicken of the sea and be done with it.
It's very possible to be a vegan and maintain a healthy weight, and remain well balanced in nutritional needs, but the problem is that most people that commonly come up as spokespeople for veganism are off the deep-end. The key to the human diet is variety-- Not living off of romaine lettuce and bananas. Again, it's also incredibly expensive to get a well balanced meal as a vegan, because most of your variety needs to be from fresher sources of foods, and it becomes depressing if you're eating a lot of raw fruits/veg/nuts.
I've eaten out with many vegan friends, and the food is good, but it's expensive, and there's an unwanted atmosphere around eateries that specialize in vegan dishes. Kind of a "fuck you" to the normal Joe. also, after paying 10 dollars for a small plate of baked cauliflower at said restaurant, I can't imagine what it must be like to never get to enjoy casually going out to dinner as a vegan.
Maybe it's better, but it's way too expensive. I'll take my cheap eggs, fish, and dairy products over the smug satisfaction of "saving the earth one meal at a time."
Thing is, the line separating the things that are inanimate and disposable and the things that are 'living' and 'conscious' is more or less arbitrary.
Are plants not alive? Is fruit not the product of a plant, taken without consent? Can plants feel pain?
We assume animals feel pain because their reaction to it is similar to humans (screaming, jolting, receding etc.), but its still an assumption. We can't measure pain so how can we know whether or not plants feel it?
My point is, why have vegans drawn the line at animals? What's their proof that plants are, unlike animal meat, perfectly OK to eat?
Do you think we only care about (some) animals because they have human-like characteristics?
That's kind of what I was getting at in >>35550433
Why shouldn't we treat plants as equals too? Cuz they're not cute and fluffy and look less like humans?
the answer to all your questions about plants is yes
they use hormones to signal when their in distress alerting other plants around them
they use a growth hormone called auxin to artificially produce larger fruit with no seeds a sexually
>It's all about the fish.
it still looks to me like red meat has a unique nutritional profile unreached by anything else.
>It's very possible to be vegan and remain well balanced in nutritional needs
Everything I read so far suggests the opposite - it is not possible to take in enough micro-nutrients unless you are supplementing a lot (a lot more than any vegan I have ever heard of) and even then they might not be absorbed well enough.
because animals are sufficiently like humans to elicit sympathy - they bleed, they scream. Vegans are often moral in other ways in my experience, so they are always thinking about how to help others whether it's immigrants, minorities etc.
>they use hormones to signal
>they use hormones
that implies intention and purpose, which is a pretty big assumption although no-one knows for sure.
it seems like you may as well say glass shatters into shards as a self-defence mechanism to stop animals from breaking it.
But that's just bias then - we feel we relate to animals more than plants so they deserve to live
But they have eyes, mouths etc., they jolt and back away when they experience pain
But yeah, less human-like than cows/pigs so I guess thats why pescetarians exist
fuck man go read up on your biology will you
and for the record i don't give 2 fucks if an animal or plant feels pain
food is food
i eat what i want
and i am content on my life choices
meat tastes good
For lifting, vegans proteins are way higher in calories, so you have to cut way more often and lose more muscle on a cut.
Even though there is a lot of known health problems linked to meat, it appears that people who primarily eat white meat live as long or longer than vegans on average.
Healthly omnivores who make good choices have a lower environmental impact than vegans.
Except for religious reasons, there is no reason to go vegan.
people are real faggots these days.
>lift to look good (pls no fat)
>too much focus on what they eat
>cry if eat anything with a shadow
>hobbies go clubbing and instagram pics.
Be a real man faggots
>lift to be strong
>eat like man, eat meat, good food
>do manly things, hunt (for food not faggot trophy hunting), chop down trees for fire, camp, fix things.
>get shit done which needs to be done
We're omnivores for a reason, watch the fucking lion king its the circle of life faggots.
>just bias then
it might be an instinctive reaction, it seems to be most common in urban city-dwellers though and not so much farming tribes etc.
some of the diets are for health reasons, I think pescetarianism is mostly health. I think there was a lot of sympathy for whales but they're mammals and not fish.
This. If we couldn't eat meat we wouldn't be able toor like poison, our bodies would get rid of it wholly and we would not use it protein synthesis or building muscle