>>35507445 >>35507416 You can survive in ketosis. Maintaining health and biological fitness is another story. That requires physiologic glycemia, either through an exogenous source or permanently upregulated gluconeogenic enzymes as in carnivores.
>>35506888 Did it for a month or two, lost 25 ish pounds, felt great then and now. Maybe I'll get cancer down the road, but I really doubt it'll be because keto.
Before man was able to process grains into bread n shit, I feel like humans ran on meat, eggs, vegetables, etc.. Could be wrong on that. fruit would be carbs, but a lot of keto plans allow fruit. I ate fruit and used those pee sticks, still said I was producing ketones.
Not trying to start shit or anything, but it worked for me, for what it's worth. I could be wrong about the whole thing, but I'm starting to trust my common sense more than articles online that all seem to contradict each other. Worked well, felt great, no issues at physicals/check-ups at the doctor.
>>35507686 Not a scientist but in your first link, >After an 8 h-fasting at the end of the 5th week, insulin tolerance test (ITT) were performed by injecting human insulin (0.75 U/kg body weight), followed by measurements of blood glucose (0 min, 30 min, 60 min, 90 min, and 120 min) with a glucosemeter.
Wouldn't that have effects that differ from say, actually eating carbs?
>>35508083 Not for assessing intact insulin signal transduction, which is the relevant variable here. If you were interested in other things like what happens differently in the ENS in response to this kind of diet, sure.
Here's one looking at oral glucose tolerance, another proxy of insulin sensitivity, if you remained unconvinced
>>35506849 Anybody here remember the Something Awful Keto thread?
>guy kills his dog by feeding him nothing by cream for 6 months >early 20's men having heart problems >people literally eating bacon 3+ times a day, some having 10 servings of bacon every day for months >CHEESE AND GROUND BEEF AND BACONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN and basically nothing else for MONTHS >bloodtests showing their cholesterol levels are worse than 70 year old obese men and being prescribed heart medication for it >somebody was banned for saying all these things >Keto discussion was banned on the site for 2 years after the thread was closed by the site's owner in fear of being sued for the stupidly dumb advice the thread's owners were putting out
because only zealots and no actual medical or scientific body in the world considers purposefully avoiding foods proven to be healthy - whole grains, fruits, legumes, starchy/non-starchy vegetables - and maximizing consumption of unhealthy foods or foods intended to be consumed in moderation - high fat animal products, oils, grease, avocados, nuts, seeds - to be good for you
>>35508500 >>guy kills his dog by feeding him nothing by cream for 6 months >>early 20's men having heart problems >>people literally eating bacon 3+ times a day, some having 10 servings of bacon every day for months >>CHEESE AND GROUND BEEF AND BACONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN and basically nothing else for MONTHS >>bloodtests showing their cholesterol levels are worse than 70 year old obese men and being prescribed heart medication for it >>somebody was banned for saying all these things >>Keto discussion was banned on the site for 2 years after the thread was closed by the site's owner in fear of being sued for the stupidly dumb advice the thread's owners were putting out
>>35508007 Why do people say Keto will give you cancer? I'm not a ketofag and that makes no sense, cancer is anaerobic and most cancer cells rely on sugar as their primary energy source.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're on a sustained keto style diet, and you're minimizing your intake of carbohydrates, wouldn't that also reduce your sugar intake to a minimum and thus deprive any potential cancer cells of their main source of energy?
Is the argument here that the proteins in the diet will cause increased genetic deterioration and thus increase the chance of cancer in the long run for someone who goes on a ketogenic diet temporarily? Because based on what I understand of cancer cells it would be more or less impossible for most forms of cancer to metastasize in someone who is on a ketogenic diet. That includes any form of colon cancer.
Because slower metabolism for life once you're done with it (atp energy inefficiency). The increased efficiency while on it is not worth the long term consequences. Plus there's a myriad of health conditions that it puts you at risk for. Best diet, is balanced diet.
>>35509335 You're 100% wrong, it would be easier for cancer to occur simply because of the protein aspect. Protein is cancerous. No one here wants to admit it and you do need it but the simple fact is that the more growth there is, the more risk there is for cell division to go wrong and cause a cancerous tumor.
Pros: You get to eat good stuff, high protein, eggs, cheese, meat. You feel "fuller", don't really have to count calories. When I did just straight calorie counting, I was hungry all the time. Lost close to 30 pounds already and showing some noob muscle gains to boot.
Cons: Yes, no carbs = you lose some intensity in the gym. It's not as bad as people say, but it's noticeable. I have found that taking creatine + preworkout (sugar free of course!) effectively counters this.
>>35507297 >mass amounts of glycogen sprinting for a full minute does that sure...
or doing medium-intensity activity for like 1-6 hours.
some of us are active all day, every day.
even at home i have to be pacing around nonstop, doing ostrich walks and handstand walks, basic aerobic shit like jumping jacks and jumping lunges, or knocking out chores (chopping wood and shit) if i stay still for more than 10-15 minutes (Especially if i am sitting down), i start to get uncomfortable.
the only exception is waking rest, where i lie on my back for a good 40 minutes once or twice a day to recuperate.
>>35509335 Cancer is a lot more complicated than that, dude. Oxygen is able to get in the necrotic core through diffusion and fuel many oxygen-dependent processes until angiogenesis kicks in.
Even with complete lack of carbohydrate you still synthesize a decent amount. If you didn't, you would die. All cells require glucose. More is obtained easily through cachexia.
Things will go slower without dietary glucose (or any other kind of exogenously supplied nutrient for that matter), but there is no evidence that carcinogenesis requires dietary carbohydrate. Some cancer cells like for example A549, T47D, and MCF7 even prefer using fatty acids and ketones for fuel. It's considered advantageous because burning these causes a lot of oxidative stress and non-enzymatic acylation, accelerating the rate of acquired mutations and thus natural selection for malignancy.
>>35511472 come join the intermittent fasting masterrace
you get to feast before working out, and carb-up to boot.
no real dealing with hunger. i don't even use black coffee to blunt appetite, but if you have to, you can add sugar alcohols like erythritol or xylitol for the calorie-free sweetness (no glycemic load, either)
>>35506849 The keto diet is what introduced me to the low carb diet concept. I like vegetables and fruit though, so I really just eat a low carb diet. No wheat, rice, corn, potatoes, sugar, or lactose. I initially ate a lot of bacon and beef, but I stopped after getting some cholesterol test results.I still eat eggs and cheese, though.
>>35510236 fuck man i study this shit and i'm in high school, what kind of shit tier country are you from? see>>35512271 the thing is, of you already have cancer a caloric deficit may slow it's growing speed, but a high protons diet doesnt even increase hyperplasia in the human body
>>35512873 >nutritionally empty >Carbs carbs are a nutrient, essential to life, and more important to bodybuilding even than fats.
as it is associated with protein anabolism, increased test, and for using mass amounts of glycogen, gluconeogenesis doesn't provide enough glucose.
also, the only people who think sat fats are healthy are pseudo-scientist fucktards.
at sub 10% bodyfat, SFAs are essential for maintaining hormone function.
outside of that, the average person only needs a reasonable amount of MUFAs>>35511707 >just ask everyone who has maintained sub 8% for any length of time (including alberto nunez and greg o'gallagher) >http://www.anabolicmen.com/carbohydrates-testosterone/
>>35513369 Which is kinda not surprising because wild animals and plants /the stuff we originally ate) are almost fat free. Only exception: Nuts. But nuts are usually only available during late autumn, to fatten you up for winter.
>>35507283 Thats more like a targeted keto diet, or TKD You eat some simple carbs right before a workout to give your muscles a glycogen boost.
Cyclical or CKD is a refeed maybe once a week, where you intake a meal of a ton of carbs, and then ride the wave the following week. This works, in that your first workout after your refeed needs to be long and hard to reduce all the glycogen in your body and put you back into keto right away.
CKD is hard, where as TKD is easier to maintain. That said, I love the weekly refeeds on CKD.
>>35507886 Yeah, IMO the only correct way to do keto is to eat a head of broccoli or cabbage or cauliflower per day. You gotta intake a ton of veggies, good thing is, you can douse them the fuck with olive oil and it just helps fill you up, hit macros and lose weight.
>>35513381 >gluconeogenesis doesn't provide enough glucose >i make bullshit claims without citing credible sources: the post >i think the keto diet restricts 100% carbs and doesn't allow for low carb veges like broccoli and spinach there's a healthy keto diet and a non-healthy keto diet just like any other diet
>>35512980 >muh crossbed sugary apples are really good for you! see they have fiber! >muh whole wheat durum pasta has a whole 6 grams of protein per 200 kcal! >enjoy your extra 200 cals of chicken breast ketards!
>>35509335 Not all cancer cells are affected by lack of glucose. Some are and yeah then keto can help. It's also part of a family of fasting diets that lower among other things IGF. Moreso if you take keto as high fat, moderate protein and low carb.
>>35506888 >cognitive impairment >http://www.neurorexia.com/2013/03/24/brain-livin-on-ketones-a-molecular-neuroscience-look-at-the-ketogenic-diet/ >In the last decade, keto has been shown to improve memory in patients at risk for Alzheimer’s disease, stabilize mood in type II bipolar disorder, reduce symptoms in Parkinson’s disease and even ameliorate some behavioral and social deficits in autism >yfw keto is a cure for AUTISM
>heart disease >https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/ >There was a significant decrease in the level of triglycerides, total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol and glucose, and a significant increase in the level of HDL cholesterol in the patients.
>no gains keto diet consists of a higher than usual protein intake, nuff said
>colon cancer >Colorectal cancer has also been shown to be better treated with a low sugar diet >http://www.canceractive.com/cancer-active-page-link.aspx?n=3117
>>35506849 I don't buy it. Unless you have that genetic disease where your body can't process carbs like the rest then it's calories in calories out for you. It's fucking physics. Plus imagine all those awkward dinner conversations. I'd be forced to eat alone.
>>35517467 I've seen a few before and after keto bulks and it looks like it might still reduce abdominal fat but doesn't help lean gains in the subq fat department. This is just from seeing that these people were very notably leaner around their midsections which is an okay but not perfect indicator for abdominal fat.
It doesn't seem to help gains that much either, I'm of the opinion that keto based lifting is suboptimal so bulking on keto is not a great idea for bigger muscles. Doing a keto cut and a balanced light bulk seems like it works well
>>35517950 this was some of my first carb including eats.
I used three types of cheese.. raw gouda , a robusto gouda and a raw goat... just sliced in between two slices of fresh baked multi grain from whole foods bakery.. damned good just had another couple..
I am no longer sold on keto busting fat and now hang my last hopes o Yohimbine HCL arrivign tomorrow
if i don't kill myself and don't lose this spare tire I will stop caring and give up and eat whatever the fuck I like..
>>35515730 >Alzheimer’s disease >bipolar disorder >Parkinson’s disease >autism All of these implicate too much neural excitation and excitotoxicity. Alzheimer’s patients are given memantine (NMDA antagonist blocking excitatory neurotransmission), BPD various anticonvulsants, Parkinson's various antiglutamatergics, autism antipsychotics and anticonvulsants. So it's no wonder keto is helpful. Healthy people without these things need neural excitation for synaptic plasticity and information processing. Suppressing it causes cognitive impairment. In fact increasing neural excitation above baseline in healthy people with things like acute glucose administration improves cognitive functioning.
>>yfw keto is a cure for AUTISM Helping to improve some symptoms marginally != cure
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/ This was done in obese individuals who see their lipid profiles improve no matter how they lose weight. They could eat a doughnut diet, or use amphetamines and cocaine to suppress appetite, and as long as they cut calories their health will improve. At the same weight and calorie consumption for TDEE though keto puts you at much higher risk for CVD.
>uwot? High fat diets cause insulin resistance
>keto diet consists of a higher than usual protein intake, nuff said 10-20% protein is nothing and this is amplified by keto's suppression of insulin and anabolism in general. A well-known side effect of keto, documented even when it was first used clinically to treat epilepsy, is stunted growth.
which doesn't support their claims at all. It's in vitro so there's no idea how it will generalize to in vivo conditions (pic related), nonetheless diet modification. Something mimicking a ketogenic diet in vitro wasn't even tested. The researchers just saw that the glucose transporter GLUT1 had increased expression in the cancer cells allowing them to survive with reduced glucose and calories in the growth medium.
A ketogenic diet doesn't inhibit GNG or glucose uptake by these cells so there's no reason to think it would help. They will just take up more glucose with this mutation, forcing host tissues to use more fatty acids and ketones. Many cancers can also produce extra inflammatory cytokines to stimulate GNG and block glucose utilization by host tissues to get even more.
>>35519406 It's amazing how this guy selectively interprets data and cherry-picks a few inconclusive epidemiological studies and hypothetical mechanisms to then combine and promote as 'fact'. Everything in favor of his vegan cult, animal products have no benefits and plants have no harms. Two servings of poached wild salmon a week will kill you and instantly give you every chronic disease in the book. Same kind of religious zeal found in ketofags.
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