For beginners who want to get more mass and look good, you said "Do SS first, get your strength up, then switch to a hypertrophy routine after 6 months or when the gains plateau." Well, what is that hypertrophy routine?
fucking hell this "strength vs hypertrophy" bullshit needs to end.
Are you a competitive, professional athlete? No? Good, here's what you need to know:
1.) Send the vast majority of your time and energy in the gym on the major exercises (Squats, Deadlifts, Bench press, OHP, chinups, rows, dips etc.)
2.) Do them often, 2 or 3 times a week
3.) Focus on progression. Add weight to the bar when you're strong enough. Add reps when you aren't strong enough. If you progress every month you're doing something right.
4.) Do you think you need extra work on your biceps/delts/chest/whatever? Well then add some curls or lateral raises or whatever you think will help as needed, as long as it doesn't interfere with your main work.
5.) Sleep a lot
6.) Eat enough
It's literally that simple. Stop overcomplicating this shit.
where did I ever say you can't make your own routine? Just read SS, Practical programming and maybe a few others and if you're not a complete retard you'll easily be able to make your own program. It's not fucking rocket science you idiot (I would know, I'm studying aerospace engineering)
this guy's on the right track.
that proves so much.
timestamp in your glutes pls
Why should I make my own program and risk failure when there's apparently so much "information" out there not just in resources but countless experiments in the gym with every lifter, for the past 100 years, and human physionomy is basically the same? I'd rather learn off someone else's mistakes than go through that trial and error bullshit. There has to be a routine honed down for someone with my very common goals (looking good) by now. Computer science by the way.
No not at all, your probably trained very intensely and got a lot stronger in the process. Although you could have probably made a little more gains a little faster had you been training the major compounds more frequently, the most important factor is progress and if you some, you made some. Can't argue with that.
This, almost every faggot on this board is not going to see a damn bit of difference between "strength" and "hypertrophy" routines. It takes years before the differentiation in training methods make a damn bit of difference in your weak scrawny newfag bodies.
>Why should I make my own program and risk failure when there's apparently so much "information" out there not just in resources but countless experiments in the gym with every lifter,
Because you're fucking retarded. Every body is fucking different, some respond to different exercises. You have to experiment on yourself, you fucking faggot not follow like a fucking sheep.
Well then fucking do SS or Reg parks 5x5 or something similar, there's no real difference anyways. Progress whenever and however you can. Add curls or whatever if you feel you need it.
I don't really see what your fucking point is?
>not doing PPL or a brosplit
For a beginner weakling like yourself, yes, pretty much. Come back in a year or so when your body has actually started to adapt to lifting weights and you can start adjusting your program for specific hypertrophy goals.
Sorry jackass, but you're still either ignorant or trolling. What that guy did was retarded, no question. But it wasn't SS. He was stupid and probably followed some idiot program that's passed back and forth by people like you who have no idea what they're talking about. What he (and you) clearly DIDN'T do was actually READ Starting Strength.
>SS works legs everyday
so does arms, whats your point
this faggot doest even did arm work
why its so dificult to read a simple book?
>maybe if i read half of the sticky its enough
he deserved it
>go to gym with a friend
>I go on ss, he goes on a bro split
>making sick strength gains
>he's gonna strong and aesthetic as fuck
>stay on ss for 2 more months
>start growing horns
>friend looks incredibly good
>pic related is us
Fuck you mark, fuck you
4-5 sets of compunds, then isolations with high repetitions. stay in the 10-12 sets range for each bodypart.
ENJOY UR GAINS.
>inb4 some ss fatfuck who's scared of volume
Fuck off you useless fatso.
YOU CANNOT GET BIG WITHOUT GETTING STRONG
GET STRONG AND YOU GET BIG
DO I LITERALLY HAVE TO COME OVER TO YOUR HOUSE AND YELL IT IN YOUR FUCKING EAR? HUH? ARE YOU THAT FUCKING THICK?
So you've been lifting over a year now and you know how to use a barbell without killing yourself? Good, knock yourself out with your hypertrophy routines then. Also, be aware you aren't the 99.9% of "muh first exercise" /fit/ scrubs who are trying to overanalyze and stress over their routines to develop the perfect mister olympia program on their very first day of the gym and swallowing the "SS means squat 3x a day for the rest of your life ;^)" bait that this entire discussion is centered around.
>squat 3 times a week
>deadlift once or twice
>bench once or twice
>ohp once or twice
>do that and only that, 3x5, no extra upper body exercises
Gee I wonder why his arms look so small.
>Not adding chin/pull ups and dips
>having a shit OHP and bench
>not having the fucking common sense to increase upper body volume when you realize your quads are now thicker than your core
>pretending to have read the book
4 days Splits
You can also try German Volume Training if you're into murdering yourself at the gym.
Great gains came to me from it. Read about it bro.
its does you retard.
if you read the book you will find that the program have dips on day A and chinups on day B
>YOU CANNOT GET BIG WITHOUT GETTING STRONG
Is this what you idiots actually believe? I was lifting more in terms of sheer weight than bodybuilders in my gym and they were much bigger than me. Lifting more for a few reps doesn't mean shit. Yes you have to be strong up to a point but it's more important to work the muscles.
Show me your fat 13 inch arms, you strong powerlifters. lel
average joe from the gym that does brosplit and fucks bitches in the summer, while you grunt pushing big weights with your fat gut
>Good, knock yourself out with your hypertrophy routines then.
In case you missed the first post and point of this fucking thread, what is such a hypertrophy routine? Why did you even bother posting in here?
look, the Supermang average poster
no discussion just random "lels" and "dyels", and ï'm bigger then you lel"
please die in a fire
I am convinced that the people who are constantly praising SS are the people that just came to /fit/, read the sticky and saw it there.
I'm not saying it's a bad program, or a good. I never did it but damn, they act as if it's the only way to get stronger and refuse to believe you can get strong on a split or another sort of routine.
It's 100% normal you can move more weight on 5 reps than 8-12 but that doesn't mean you don't get stronger doing 8-12
>average joe from the gym that does brosplit and fucks bitches in the summer,
that's not a picture, thats your memory.
Anyways, a few things
He's probably actually not that big, just low bodyfat so he looks good, but in terms of actual muscle volume it's probably not impressive, and if it is, you have completely disregarded the fact that he probably benches 2plate in spite of shitty routine.
>I am convinced that the people who are constantly praising SS are the people that just came to /fit/, read the sticky and saw it there.
this is exactly who they are.
they have no knowledge beyond MUH SS.
people need to stop being so obsessive over rep ranges and understand total volume too.
Then end up looking like this pic.
How about training like a fucking bodybuilder from the get go instead of a strength athlete - 2 completely different goals. All this focus on strength is a fucking craze and training for strength (or like a strength athlete) leaves 99% of people looking like complete dogshit.
3-5 exercises per session is not enough to make you build a good looking balanced body. You need a lot of volume.
Only do SS if you want to get into strength training. /Fit/ circle jerks over SS because strength training is the current craze in fitness (probably because no one wants to be outdone by crossfit - fuck crossfit) - dont fall for this. You need fucking volume to build a good physique - it is the quickest and best way.
Something like this is what I would do from day 1 - All 8-12 x 5
Bent over rows
Leg raises (20x5)
There you go, do this for 3-4 months then progress onto a higher volume (over the week) split. Concentrate on keeping form good over weight and keeping the muscles under constant tension instead of just beasting weight up and down.
And now you will look better than 99% of people who do SS for the same amount of time. Enjoy your sick gains and awesome physique.
timestamp or fuck off
It's nice to troll and bait you into oblivion.
You're like children, you follow instead of leading.
I have no reason to die, because i made bigger gains in a year on split than you ever will on your SS.
>Mark Rippetoe has literally stated he thinks it's perfectly fine to work arms
So it's perfectly fine to deviate from SS, but if you deviate in any way "you're not doing the program! You didn't do SS!" Fuck you. That's the other thing that's retarded, Rippetoe says "stick to the program", then in the book he writes "oh yeah you can vary it, maybe put in chinups, maybe put in back extensions (????) after the third week". Why aren't back extensions discussed here /fit/? You guys are clueless.
And like that other guy said, curlbros are getting bigger and fucking girls while you guys obsess over your "stats" and still look out of shape.
>still wasting time on SS
I think SS is the best troll that /fit/ has ever done to a NYE fags.
>You're like children, you follow instead of leading.
>thinking that you are special or alpha because you lift bars in a different way
>having photos of random stagram bitches on your computer
>I have no reason to die, because i made bigger gains in a year on split than you ever will on your SS.
This thread is just proof why the only advice you take from /fit/ is from the sticky, and why so many angry newbs ask stupid common sense questions in the QTDDTOTs. Everyone acts like they're experts and that they're word is final while, in reality, the truth consistently lies in the middle and there are more than 2 roads to the same point of success.
There's a reason Rip and Wendler had to write entire fucking books with medical and physio specialists on hand to make their routine as effective and clear as possible, and there's a reason dudes like Zyzz and Seid and the Buff Dudes train completely different but still looked great. Because they're all right and lifting is more about diet and preference than anything else.
If there are any new lurkers or DYELs reading this, don't take this thread seriously. Trust the sticky, trust the scientific citations, and do your own research before committing to something. So long as you eat right and stay committed to lifting on a program that someone who has experience wrote, you'll do fine. Don't let the egos of a bunch of weeb fucks misguide you.
>Every body is fucking different, some respond to different exercises.
No you are retarded.
>Every body is different
>Everyone should do SS
Do you retards even THINK?
Human physiology is basically the same across the board if you're a normal individual. Human genetic variation is so low we'll basically all respond the same to exercise. Yes some people are genetically gifted in areas to be pro athletes, and they train specifically for that goal.
the most important thing is training hard then diet.
you can have the perfect routine and train like shit and not progress to your full potential or you can have an average routine and always give 100% and get more gains.
this is WHY brosplitters often (citation needed) MAKE MORE GAINS because theyre all alpha douches with no complex thought or "feels" they just wanna GO HARD or and motivate each other and shit like that and will always give 100%
then you have beta billy from /fit/ who is a virgin and socially awkward trying to train and these principles carry over into his work out.
its nothing to do with your FUCKING ROUTINE now STOP ARGUING
>12 years old first attempt of discussion
go back and to reddit and practice a little more end then try again
also, not at all my friend
How do you think people get bigger exactly? A bigger muscle is a stronger muscle - what do you think your body is adapting to when it adds muscle as a result of exercise? Why is resistance at a fairly high percentage of your maximal effort necessary for hypertrophy? I mean, you don't get too big walking around and bodyweight exercises seem to cap out after a while.
Things that make you go hmmm. I'm not saying a bigger person will out lift or be stronger than a smaller person (physics/leverage/neural components weigh in on this so lets not talk about the 130lbs freak of nature champion powerlifter), but I'm saying that when YOU get bigger than you are now, YOU will have gotten stronger than you are now. No one added significant muscle that didn't add weight to the bar or just do a ton more work. You are stressing the muscular system here and the adaptation of hypertrophy is a method the body uses to cope and improve to be able to better tolerate the stress.
I would hope it's hitting you like a bolt of lightning now and that you aren't lost. If you are lost reread the above.
For any newfriends lurking. These two guys in the pic LITERALLY tested routines out for reddit.
the guy on the left did SS for a year and the guy on the right did a split, the guy on the left got stronger and the guy on the left look way better.
LITERAL PICTURE EVIDENCE SO STOP LISTENING TO THE SS TROLLS HOLY SHIT
I've seen plenty of "strong" guys in real life and on the Internet and /fit/ that look small as shit. They've been doing this for years.
Stop talking to me as if I've never set foot in a gym before.
There's a reason it's established that 1-5 reps is better for STRENGTH and 8-12 reps is better for HYPERTROPHY and MASS. Hmm, now if my goal was to get big, I wonder, which one should I fucking do? The one for STRENGTH, or the one for MASS? Tough fucking question. Most of the "strength" shit is just CNS gains anyway, so how does that make you as big?
>talking shit at an olimpic medal winner
revaluate your life retard
also, he chest is really big, when you raise your arms your chest gets smaller
>klokov did a slip
are you even trying? he made s strength program you retard
trying to bait but you are just helping the SS
here is the real one.
SS versus Brosplit
what now faggots
Because not everyone is the same?
Because you can't indefinitely as weight to the bar without getting bigger?
You clearly have just set foot in the gym by the way you're taking like you know everything because you did ss
Rippetoe says he only recommends chinups. He decries rows. If you deviate from SS "you're not doing the program".
The biggest problem in my view is SS has no volume. Yes it has intensity when you're trying to push to higher weight. But you're not doing a lot of work overall, you're just really killing yourself and putting your body under a lot of stress for a few seconds. Lactic acid production is not even there. Benching 1-2 a week for 3 sets of 5 is pathetic and isn't going to give you a bigger chest. Feel free to disagree or prove me wrong.
op listen to me
you have different options, i will give you 2
A) google: HST (Hypertrophy-Specific Training), do it for a half year
B) do a 2day split 2 times a week, like 1) leg back biceps 2) chest shoulders triceps abs,
on compoud lifts you do 3x5 on the other you do 2x10
>the year is 2015 and i still argue about rep ranges despite them being proven irrelevant
you guys need to listen to more knowledgeable people than Mark Rippetoe.
Basically volume (which youre trying to achieve with more reps) is cumulative so if you do 8 reps your body doesnt think OMG 8 reps better grow or 5 reps better get strong! It all adds up.
Lower REPS are good for strength because the more you use a muscle in one burst the less it is about strength and fast twitch muscle it goes to slow twitch muscle and endurance.
So ideally you want to do MORE SETS of LESS REPS
if you have the time of course
you will be able to lift more total weight doing 8 sets of 3 reps than 3 sets of 8 reps and the total volume (of reps) is the same but the total volume (of weight which builds the muscle) is HIGHER.
go watch Layne Norton vids if you want it explained better, im not a scientist
>Jesus fuck it's like this board is the blind leading the blind.
Pretty much. I come here for giggles, not lifting advice. Read a couple books on exercise and get a personal trainer who looks how you want to look if you want to actually learn anything.
A friend of mine did this and he plateaued after two months. He didn't start making gains again until he did SS/SL until he got his squat, bench, and deadlift high enough before going to a split.
i dont recommend it, because it hits muscles once a week,
you need to hit every muscle group 2-3 times a week,
you could do push/pull 3 split two times a week but i think it is too much to lift
moreover you have to go more an more to your limit
fucking fags watch these vids you will learn more than reading SS;
inb4 le fake natty xD
everything he says is based on studies by the top top experts in muscle growth in the entire world and the studies are done on natural lifters so fuck off
I don't remember, but the impression I got was straight up. Read the book. IIRC he has a section on how to do them but only as an accessory, not a main lift. But who gives a fuck. I'd do cable rows instead.
That's sad, man. I thought we could share information here. Instead /fit/ is just shitposting. People writing angrily and cutting each other down just to feel good about being right. Those same people don't know shit and look like shit.
I can't tell if you three are retards, gullible, or just plain newfags who don't lift.
How the fuck do you not recognize Koklov and fall for an obvious troll post?
They look similar. The SS guy is a little more muscular on the front, but the brosplit guy has a more developed back.
Anyway, who says a brosplit is the only/ best alternative to SS?
That's why the generals were started. And it's only a matter of time before /fit/ follows the ways of /co/ and /v/ and the generals become complete shit as well.
>Anyway, who says a brosplit is the only/ best alternative to SS?
no one, its just a pic that "proves" that you con look good/ be proportionate with SS while being strong.
There is alot of good routines, im trying to say is that SS is one of the good ones.
They usually get trolled out of commission or swallowed by the /fraud/ generals. Try starting one with good information and news on the BB seen, like competitions and shit. Generals are usually only as good as their OPs and dedicated frequenters, so if you attract enough committed name/tripfags, eventually the content creation and discussion will keep them afloat against the trolling and shitposts.
>SS Bro can bench more than BS Bro can squat
>BullShit fags BTFO
Oh I'm laffin
i recommend you watch them later then m8
basically you can do absolutely FINE as long as you follow some basics; hit all the compounds 2-3 times per week, i recommend doing all of them every day but varying between strength and hypertrophy style lifting each day too.
the number 1 thing is to PUSH YOURSELF, your routine will only change about 10% in the end, if you dont work hard as fuck you wont see proper changes, regardless of routine.
Yeah I know. It is what it is.
I started lifting ten years ago on the Body for Life program (book probably available at your library) after how I saw my uncle start on it and he transformed from a fat piece of turd to shredded in 4 months. I then did the same thing. It's worth checking out (just ignore the diet and specific exercise advice- he advocates machines, just substitute your favorite free weight movements). You might be interested in it if your goal is a good physique.
>BroSplits get BTFO
>thread get really slow
>we have the same thread tomorrow
SS and Brosplits are both average routines.
Candito's 4 day linear routine is way better than either.
the fucking human body is built to do more than 9 sets of exercise every other day you SS guys are dumb as fuck
it just feels like people who recommend SS are just saying it cause they got trolld into it and want others to aswell
i dont even do SS, i do SL
but the real discussion is if strength routines are good for begginers, its is, as well others ones
great argument my friend
you have to be 18+ to post is this board
Oh I just realized the SS bro's numbers are way better than the split bro. Split bro's numbers are 1 RM, and SS guy is 3x5.
Funny how they look similar but SS bro is much stronger.
well, i got to the point that I needed to pick something. The whole SS is or isnt a troll is really shitty
I did 6months of some REALLY shitty brosplit with no real gains and needed to move on.
i'm doing SL because rows>cleans and i didnt like the idea of GOMAD, and i wanted to do some full program
its not newfag.
I was in the thread, they are twins
/fit/ is delusional, just pick a fucking routine and stick to it.
r/ing pick of the two twins who did different routines and end up looking pretty much the exact fucking same because it doesn't matter
Routines like this is what majority of 70's bodybuilders used as naturals to build their physiques. Reg Park swore by training in away similar to that throughout his career.
These guys had the most aesthetic physiques of all time and they swore by training regimes with massive amounts of volume.. I have no idea why people today can't get it through their thick fucking heads that volume training for building a physique is the quickest and easiest way..
Why do you think curl bros normally have great bodies after 18months but have shitty 1 rep maxes? Because their regimes (although not optimal) involve a fuck load of volume.
Oh and he probably plateaued because:
1. His diet was shitty
2. He was ready to progress onto a 4 day Legs, chest + abs/ Shoulders, back + arms type split - he probably needed more volume.
No shit his lifts go bigger doing a STRENGTH BASED PROGRAM DESIGNED FOR STRENGTH ATHLETES.
Lel, you're literally showing me a pic that shows the split guy got better mass gains. Is it really that hard to believe a routine meant for gaining muscle would give you more muscle than a routine for strength? Shocking. Also inb4:
>b-but they look the same
No they don't, stop being blind, the split guy has noticeably bigger triceps and lats
>b-but SS guy is stronger
Too bad nobody gives a fuck, since we're talking about bodybuilding
SS twin here. Not that I want to make you look bad, but this was the second picture that was posted in the thread we made.
Because isolations are a must if you want to look "good". Really, I don't see nothing wrong with doing SS as a beginner. I've read the thread. I also started with SS. I was also "lost" as to where to go next but I've decided to hit what I was missing, which was basically bi's and shoulders. I prefer to follow a program because its easier to actually finish my workout. I didn't really "moved" to another program. I'm doing what I've learned with SS and I'm just mixing that with isolations. Curls, tri's, abs and shoulders.
PHAT, PHUL, 5/3/1 Boring But Big, Hypertrophy Specific Training, Generic Bulking Routine; you've got a lot of options now that you can put some decent weight on the bar. There's a few listed under intermediate routines in the sticky & on http://www.simplesciencefitness.com
Something that I always think is a good point and everyone seems to miss is that SS bro spent 3 days a week in the gym, while BS bro spent 5. If you can look that good spending just over half the amount of time in the gym, why wouldn't you
God /fit/ sucks
Try push pull legs pplxppl
Or a 5 day bodypart split.
I do chest-legs-back-shoulders-arms
Chest is bench, incline db
Bench, dips, flies
Legs are squats with tripple drop sets, and calves (injured knee so I don't do leg press or anything that hurts it)
Back is deadlift, bb or Db rows, pull ups, chest supported rows, lay pull downs with a tripple drop set
Shoulders are military press, upright rows, side laterals, face pull
Arms are close grip bench, close grip Chins, dips, skull crushers and curls.
My compounds are working up to a max set of 3-8 depending (deads 3-5, military press 5-8 for example) isolations are sets of 8-15
The point is working to failure. That's how muscle grows.
because people are dumb as fuck, this is literally what I do.
AxBxAxx work everything on all days A & B just swap up rep ranges and set ranges for the exercises so im not killing myself going all heavy one day.
>Because isolations are a must if you want to look "good".
no they arent holy shit. explain why then.
LMAO no shit, wasn't that your argument in favor of brosplit to being with you fucking retard?
>moving goal posts
>I started lifting ten years ago on the Body for Life program
Hey, same here! I learned a lot from the book but didn't make much progress with the program, looking back it was probably a combination of inconsistency, my hesitation to push myself (mostly stayed at the same weight, thinking I had to stay there until it was "easy"), and bad nutrition (I was underweight and took all the "portion" advice of the book literally, bulking was a foreign concept to me). But as far as the structure of the exercises and program I wonder if there was some wisdom in that. It basically is warmup sets, then an intense set followed by a superset, in what I think is an upper/lower split. I watched a video with Phillips and he looks jacked as always if a bit older, I didn't know he trained celebrities too though. Looking back I would have probably benefited from having Starting Strength as well at that age.
What do you think, should I give BFL a shot now? Seems like the people successful with it were in shape at some earlier stage and overweight now.
>No they don't, stop being blind, the split guy has noticeably bigger triceps and lats
Not to mention traps. If you don't have big traps you don't look like you lift. Guess that solves the issue of whether power cleans does anything for your traps, lel
>you're literally showing me a pic that shows the split guy got better mass gains
Are you fucking blind? SS Bro has a better chest and he's not even flexing his lats.
>"B-B-BUT, BROSPLIT BRO IS SLIGHTLY BIGGER"
Wasn't the original argument that SS was a troll and makes you fat and unaesthetic?
Proven wrong. And now that SS Bro has much higher lifts and maybe even more, if not the same amount of mass, he'll be making gains even faster than BS Bro if he switches to a split.
>Too bad nobody gives a fuck, since we're talking about bodybuilding
>strength is not important in bodybuilding
>strength is not important in bodybuilding
>strength is not important in bodybuilding
Literally retarded and confirmed for DYEL. Fuck off.
so you're working Bis two days in a row? Legs can go with shoulders then you have a 3 day split that isn't retarded.. I've seen a guy do this exact routine and he ended up looking stoooopid as shit.
You talk as if you think doing 6-7 reps does absolutely noting and is a wasted workout
What you need to understand is that everyone's bodies are different. someone stronger than you may be smaller just because of more efficient CNS. if you actually read what I posted, "I'm saying that when YOU get bigger than you are now, YOU will have gotten stronger than you are now. No one added significant muscle that didn't add weight to the bar or just do a ton more work. You are stressing the muscular system here and the adaptation of hypertrophy is a method the body uses to cope and improve to be able to better tolerate the stress."
>what? like what?
Bis, traps, lats, abdominals... everything gets at most 6 sets a week... When I first got into SS I felt like I wasn't doing much work at all, it was just the intensity of dealing with heavier and heavier weight each time, which is stress but it's not work if you know what I mean.
It's easy for intermediate+ lifters to say "just go with what you need", but new lifters who don't know what they're doing.... you literally have to hold their hand. They NEED a routine.
also, eventually when you get to a certain point, your CNS will stop becoming more efficient. You CANNOT infinitely add weight to the bar while maintaining the same weight/size. You NEED to get bigger muscles to get stronger. Muscle growth is a SIDE EFFECT of becoming stronger.
"In conclusion, this study showed that both bodybuilding- and powerlifting-type training promote similar increases in muscular size, but powerlifting-type training is superior for enhancing maximal strength."
>either a hypertrophy-type resistance training group that performed 3 sets of 10 repetition maximum (RM) with 90 seconds rest or a strength-type resistance training (ST) group that performed 7 sets of 3RM with a 3-minute rest interval
>3x10 w/ 90s rest vs 7x3 w/ 180s rest
Neither of these are like SS. I guess SS is a lazier version of the hypertrophy routine with half the volume? Because in SS you do 15 reps and in these you do 21 for ST and 30 for hypertrophy, which is way more volume.
>mfw when I saw an unironic stock photo of that guy at my school