Hello /diy/ I woke up the other day to see that 2 rows of tile on my kitchen floor have buckled and are raised up now. Two rows of 5 tiles and partial tiles against the dishwasher. Two full tiles and one partial have cracked as seen in pic related.
Is there a way I can just remove and replace the cracked ones and get the others to lay flat again? There is some shit on youtube about drilling holes in the grout and spraying some glue shit under the tiles but I don't know how I'd force them back flat on the floor again.
Any help is appreciated.
This or some other major issue. lift the damaged tiles and a tile either way along the cracked 'road' - see what the subfloor is, if wood, you need to fix the leak and let it dry for 8-12 weeks. If it's concrete, dig out the broken concrete to get down to whatever has caused the concrete to blow then fix that and patch the concrete.
Only retile once the problem is fixed and the floor is level.
Everything was flat the night before. But other tiles, not the ones that came up, were and are "hollow", meaning when I step on them I can hear that they are not flat and secured to the floor.
Am I correct in assuming that if the tiles were installed properly to begin with, no leak from the dishwasher could have caused this?
Okay, I just pulled out pieces of the broken tiles, as shown in the pic. The floor is concrete and I don't see any damage to the concrete itself. I also don't feel any moisture and the dishwasher is actually running right now.
The day before this happened it was really warm and humid out, almost 80 degrees, then that night it got down to the low 50s. However I've been in this house over 2 years and had drastic temperature changes before and nothing happened like this. Except for the "hollow" tiles.
I've read that regardless of climate, things in a house are going to expand and contract and move. There are steps to take in order to account for this natural movement which evidently the guys who installed this tile didn't take.
I own. And yeah I have some money to fix it but I'd rather learn how to do it myself and save $$$. I would really love it if I can find the same tile and just replace the broken ones. When I bought the house, in the garage there is a STACK of extra tiles they used in the living room but for the kitchen there is only a single extra tile.
remove the tiles in red lines
figure out what made them raise up on the green line and caused them to crack
try to find/buy tiles as close to the original as you can FIRST
that is some weird shit goin' on there.
does the tile go under the dishwasher? it looks like it doesn't. also looks like the tile was cut to fit tightly against the wood cabinets - possible issue as the wood cabinets might be expanding/contracting with changes in humidity and if there is no gap between them and the tile its -possible- they pushed hard enough to pop the tiles.
the 'hollow' sound is a tile that is not firmly in contact with the subfloor (in your case the concrete) there is a gap between the bottom of the tile and the concrete. either the person who installed the tiles didn't put down enough mortar mix or the mix didn't really stick to the concrete and has since pulled up leaving a gap. not much to do to fix that except break out the 'hollow' sounding tile and replace it. the 'hollow' tile has a much greater chance of cracking especially when weight is put on it.
you could leave the 'hollow' tiles in place until they do crack then replace them.
also, if you are careful it is possible to remove a 'hollow' tile without breaking it (assuming it has completely separated from the concrete below. you need a grout saw. use grout saw to cut/chip away the grout joints around the 'hollow' tile then that tile should just lift right up (again assuming it is no longer attached to the concrete).
Thanks for the info on the grout saw. The tile does NOT go under the dishwasher and it is right up against the bottom of the caninets. Is it customary to install it this way or should the floor underneath the cabinets be tiled also? An anon earlier said the floor under the dishwasher should be tiled.
This is going to sound unrelated, but it isn't. What are the adjacent floor coverings? In the rooms adjacent to the kitchen, is there wood?
Check all the plumbing and the materials around them, specifically for water swelling. It looks like there is some sort of lateral force, typically what happens when there is a lack of an expansion joint between adjacent flooring that has expanded.
Also, tap your knuckles or use a golf ball on the tiles. If you hear a lot of "hollow" sounding tiles, you have some debonding issues with the floor. a few is normal.
When was the floor installed?
yes, a more professional job would have the tile go under the appliances (dishwasher and fridge).
but seeing that the sub is concrete even if water leaked from dishwasher I don't see how that would pop and crack the tiles? maybe it could possibly cause them to come loose from the concrete (giving the 'hollow' effect) but these definitely look like pressure was applied to cause the buckling(?)
a really good job would have the tile go under everything (including the cabinets). but that can be a lot of work and it also with raise the height of the cabinets and counter tops 1/4" or so (whatever the thickness of the tile is) and that may cause other problems like if there is a tile backspash above the counter tops... so often a new tile floor is not run under existing cabinets. but if it were me installing I would leave a small gap - 1/8" or 3/16". ideally that would be filled with a flexible caulk that was the same color as the grout being used between the tiles. or a small 1/4 round wood trim would be installed (nailed to the cabinet only) to cover the small gap. under the toe kick you prolly wouldn't even notice the gap anyway.
In the two rooms that border the kitchen is one big floor with different, larger tiles. The kitchen tiles are 12 x 12 inch and the rest of the downstairs floor is 17 x 17 inch tiles.
I think >>921225 is right about the cabinets pushing against the tile floor and the mortar mix not sticking. A bunch of the mortar on these removed tiles didn't stick to the removed tile or the concrete floor, pic related.
The house was built in 1999 but I believe they tiled the floor a few months before I bought the house. Sometime around June or July 2013.
Contractor here. If your tiles are put down flush wall to wall they will have issues. I don't see any weatherproofing under tiles either. If subfloor is concrete as it seems, best to take out tiles from the said room. Lay down new tiles properly. YouTube or HD will give you all the info needed. Tiles themselves don't expand or contract much but the wood frame in building does.
so sounds like two problems; no expansion gap along the cabinets (and maybe along the walls) and something wrong with the mortar mix (or thin-set mix) used. maybe was too dry when put down or the concrete wasn't pre-cleaned/prep'd properly... there are a lot of factors there.
i dont think the cabinets have anything to do with it, they cracked in the wrong direction...
was just bad prep work.
no isolation membrane on the gaps in concrete (will easily crack your tile),
and bad thinset application.
I'm a tiler by trade and have seen this kind of thing a lot. As strange as it sounds that looks to me like a few other anons have suggested is to do with no movement joint/gap around the peremitter of the room.
My conclusion to this is the way the. Tiles look like they are lifting, due to sideward pressure. If it were a case of not enough adhesive or hollows under the tiles then the tiles would crack if something is dropped on them or would just lift.
When installing floor tiles I remove all skirting, and tile leaving around a 10mm gap between tile and walls. This is known as the movement gap, for expansion and movement of tiles and subfloor. When you fit the skirting on top of the tile it hides the gap and gives you a nice finish. Also although it looks like the tiles have had enough contact with the adhesive, you should use a round notched solid bed trowel for floors and I always "back butter" the backs of the floor tiles with adhesive. This gives you a solid bed of adhesive under the tiles with no hollows. (The trowel used in your pic is a square notched trowel for walls)
Hope that helps anon
Also remember to prime the floor with a acrylic bonding agent usually diluted 4:1 with water before tiling.
Use a decent adhesive brand not the cheapest shit you can find, and the same goes for grout. Although a concrete floor doesn't require flexible adhesive or grout I tend to use flexible for all applications and have never had a floor fail on me in the 10years I've been tiling.
Just wanted to thank all the helpful anons who posted in this thread.
I went to home depot and Lowe's today and they don't have this tile and suggested contacting the manufacturer. The manufacturer is in Brazil so I sent them an email asking for help identifying this particular tile. I doubt I will be able to get my hands on it and may just re-tile the entire floor.
I will try to keep this thread going. Thanks again.
In my experience, finding even a similar tile is nearly impossible, especially if you don't have a wholesale lead or warehouse to dig around in.
Your best bet is to go with a new tile for the kitchen, and it sounds like thats what you had before the anomaly.
Break up random tiles around the kitchen and put in mosaics.
>Break up random tiles around the kitchen and put in mosaics.
this is an idea that would work. at least you don't have to tear up and replace *everything*. and if you do it just right it'll look like that is what was intended. at least it'll hold you for a number of years until your in a better position to tear it all up and do it all new.
it is difficult to match existing tile - even tile that is still fairly new... sucks.
I like the mosaic idea.
if you do all new make sure to keep several extra tiles on hand for future 'whoops'...
Since your home was built in 1999, I'd recommend something in white; it's what harmonizes best with homes of that period.
Vinyl is another good alternative, as it can bend without cracking.
OP here; I received a prompt and polite reply from Eliane tile, the manufacturer. It is as follows:
"Many thanks for your contact.
The product you are looking for is called Cape Gold 31x31 (12x12). As it was assumed, it has really been discontinued for many years now. Unfortunately there is no more available inventory neither here in Brazil or in any distributor in the US.
We do not produce this type of product anymore, so there is no similar product in our current portfolio, but in case you might be interest in another type of design or color, I suggest you to take a look at our web site (Eliane.com) to check our options. We will be glad to help you if you need further assistance with any other tile.
We also take the opportunity to wish you a Very Happy New Year!
I do like the idea of
>Break up random tiles around the kitchen and put in mosaics.
If I removed every other tile and replaced it with a new one of a different style, that might look kind of cool. Then I would only have to replace roughly half of them instead of all.
However, because I would have to re-use some of the removed tiles, how hard is it to get the old mortar off the backs of the tiles without breaking them? If I do that I will definitely need a grout saw.
Well OP, you have a few options for mosaic tiles.
Someone does manufacture a 'mosaic' tile in a 12x12 format. This will be the easiest and probably the cheapest. It'll look alright if you coordinate colors in your kitchen well enough.
Alternatively, you can make your own out of a grab-bag of tiles, glass, or stone.
The reason I suggested breaking additional tiles around the kitchen almost at random is to avoid the appearance that you've repaired a previous problem on the cheap. Good luck to you.
btw, did you rap on the remaining tiles to see if they have debonded?
I would suggest another option, replace a border of tiles around the walls of the room and replace with a newer one. Then you'll only have to do like 10% of the room, and I thin, it may look better than a checkerboard pattern. Also, remember you'll need a tile saw to cut the tile for the half tiles near the countertops if you're doing checkerboard, because it would look very odd to have checkerboard everything EXCEPT those tiles.
Also, at the point where you are going to take up the whole floor so you can do a checkerboard pattern, might as well
Answer lies in this picture.
See how there is no mortar on the back of the tile? Note how the mortar was combed out incorrectly too.
The tile must sit in a snug bed of mortar. Additionally, all comb marks should run one direction. When you lay the tile all of the combs should collapse.
The outside portion of the tile was secure. Inner portion was floating amd thus snapped with movement.
About to buy some tools to remove the thinset before I re-do the entire floor.
Based on some youtube videos I watched I think I'm going to buy a reciprocating saw, (it'd be nice to have one anyway,) and attach this 5 inch metal scraper in pic related. Good idea?
The kitchen tile actually borders different, bigger tile in the living room and I am nervous about fucking that tile up too. So I was going to carefully cut the grout between these different tiles. Some youtube dudes use an oscillating tool with a grout cutting attachment... Any ideas? I know an anon above mentioned a grout saw... how hard is this to cut without a power tool? The tiles bordering the other rooms total about 8 feet.
As always, any advice is appreciated.
>not a good idea
Its just going to be a gigantic pain to use a reciprocating saw because it was never designed for that application.
I would recommend a regular 5" chisel and a hammer. Get some hearing and eye protection while you're at it.
I see he uses a hammer and chisel to start and finish things off.
Its not my money you're spending, and I work with demo crews every day. They don't use a sawzall to remove tile for big or small tile jobs.
bump for getting new power tools to do this deal. New floor incoming.
>never designed for that application
That is a picture of a Milwaukee-branded accessory. I'd assume they designed it to work fairly well with their recip saws. It's not like he's just gluing a paint scraper to a sawblade here...
Me thinks your tile guy didn't mortar the tiles correctly.
Wasn't a big deal til you picked up a landwhale at the bar, then after crushing you to the point of being unconscious she did what she came to do, raid your fridge. After finding your 3 mayonnaise jars(original, lite, and olive oil) and eating all of then with her hand(she had to break the top off cause the mouth was too small) she stumbled across your chocolate chips. She spilled a couple that fell under the dishwasher and being in a mayo fueled delirium she dove after them, cracking your tiles in the progress. Afraid she woke you up and assuming you'd call the cops she waddled out the back door to the nearest all night dinner that sold cheeseburgers. It's alright man, happens more often than you think. I'm an insurance claim investigator and I check out about 17 of these a year.
She also blocked the toilet leading me to ask /diy/ for help.