CAROL CORPS BTFO!!!
Even Marvel knows who the OG Captain Marvel is!
>Can you sue DC so that they have to change the reprints to say Shazam instead of Captain Marvel? Carol Danvers is Captain Marvel, the world's most powerful woman, and DC are ruining it. Screw DC and their rip-off and lousy movies.
>Sorry, no. There is only one original Captain Marvel, and that is Billy Batson.
Is Carol actually the strongest woman in the marvel universe?
>Brevoort actually said something smart for once
He's probably just trying to piss "the carol corps" off so they buy more comics in their quest of making her THE Captain Marvel.
There's only one Miss Fantastic and that's Lyja
>we're not trying to make a Marvel Wonder Woman, we'd rather have a character who would actually sell. Carol is doing just fine in that regard.
>we'd rather have a character who would actually sell
>Wonder Woman already has a massive pop culture presence
>Wonder Woman beat Carol to the big screen
>Wonder Woman's book still sells more than Carol's
>Wonder Woman has like 4-5 books going on now
he just sounds salty to me
>Captain Marvel (Original) 1967
>Ms. Marvel/Carol Danvers (now known as Captain Marvel) 1977
>DC Comics (originally published and owned by Fawcett Comics)
>Captain Marvel/Billy Batson 1939
How exactly would Disney or anybody sue DC for the rights of the name "Captain Marvel"? Even DC trying to rename him "Shazam" havent work very well because fans like the original
>"Lol look at our talking raccoon, where is Wonder Woman?" for two whole years
>Now it's "W-wonder woman won't sell, o-ok?"
2019. Long way off.
The second Wonder Woman movie might be out before Carol gets her first solo.
>>"Lol look at our talking raccoon, where is Wonder Woman?" for two whole years
>>Now it's "W-wonder woman won't sell, o-ok?"
>The second Wonder Woman movie might be out before Carol gets her first solo.
El Oh El
the Captain Marvel name is weird
DC actually lost the rights to title his comics Captain Marvel when they socked the character away after acquiring Fawcett Comics, so Marvel moved in and created their own Captain Marvel, trademarking the name. That's why DC's Captain Marvel comics are titled some variation of Shazam!, and why at New 52 they decided to make the book name and character name match, since they straight up can't title a book Captain Marvel
>we'd rather have a character who would actually sell
Good luck with that, seeing how Disney refuses to make superhero toys for girls, while WB is seriously marketing the shit out of Wondie and their other female characters.
>DC actually lost the rights to title his comics Captain Marvel when they socked the character away after acquiring Fawcett Comics
Kinda true. DC/National sued the ever loving fuck outta Fawcett and CC Beck, claiming that Captain Marvel was an infringement on Superman. DC/National wins and Fawcett is forced to stop published Captain Marvel. A few years later they buy Fawcett out and then bury EVERYTHING. By then the rights to the name lapsed and Marvel swooped in.
Basically, DC fucked themselves in the ass.
>Disney/Marvel where are the ladies
>Forgot about ladies, we have a talking raccoon!
>DC where are the ladies
>ok, here's Superhero Girls and a Wonder Woman movie, enjoy
>WHY ARE YOU SO SEXIST/RACIST/BEHIND THE TIMES DC? I'm going to watch Black Widow's 30 minutes of screen time instead!
Rogue's powers aren't an exact copy of her victim's, because she has no prior experience using them.
Also, I'm pretty sure the powers Rogue stole from Ms.Marvel aren't the same powers that Ms.Marvel has in the present.
Useless trivia: Rogue is called Titania in Mexico
Carol's an energy absorber. Her power levels will fluctuate upwards wildly depending on how much she has spooling around inside her. So some days she might be more powerful than Thor, mostly I'd guess not though. Like pretty much every other super-strength character though her power level flux mostly due to authorial fiat - in other words it depends on what the writer needs her to be able to do for the story.
Note: the only people who think she's ever been hanging around below She-Hulk levels are the turbonerds who start referring to the stats posted in RPGs and so on. Those things only get put in to appease the 'power ranking!' autists and are less canon than even anything Bendis thinks up.
As another anon said, Rogue hasn't even had copid Ms Marvel powers for a decade. She's had Sunfire's for a while since, then got reset to her pure power-absorption, and now has Wonder-Man's. I think.
Always happens when they try to lift a character though - in order to get the wider audience they have to normalise it in some way - remove negative traits (like that hint of sadism in Carol), and bump up their heroism.
It is pretty much how we arrived at nogunz Batman and nokill Supes from their original incarnations.
Pretty sure Jen is stronger although who knows who the strongest in the Universe really is.
I thought about Gamora since she took down Jen and Rogue with Ms Marvel type of strength (althoigh she used Jen's strength against Rogue) but I guess she is just the best fighter or was since Bendis really nerfed her and made her useless
I loved the sound effect they used for her power.
Not to mention Batwoman, Renee Montoya (yeah, DC was passing the mantle to women and minorities AT THE SAME TIME) before it was cool, etc.
This "DC is racist/sexist/homophobic" shit confuses the fuck out of me. DC and Marvel have both gone out of their way for a long time to be includive. The only difference is, Marvel is just cynical about it nowadays (with the probably-just-got-lucky exception of Kamala) and DC is still trying.
He gets salty if you compare Marvel to DC and say DC is better, like when he was asked about why he didn’t use Tales to Astonish or Tales of Suspense as alt titles for hero comics or anthologies and he said that those titles had no recognizable brand and that fans wouldn't buy them and that it would alienate new fans.
Then another anon said something along the lines of " You're right, they are not as popular or recognizable as Detective Comics, Action Comics, and Brave and the Bold" and he got salty about that even saying that thise titles don't do good.
It's because DC can't market for shit, and they are stuck with a bad rep with people always parroting the new52 is bad meme. Marvel on the other hand goes all out with their marketing. OPs pic is a perfect example of they're marketing working.
>But Wonder Woman outsells Carol, even with shit writers. It took Carol 40 years to get to 100 issues, no one likes her and no one ever will.
That is all true, and what Brevoort said is also true. Wondy is one of the worst characters in sales if you take into account she's one of DC's trinity.
The EMH Kree storyline starting with Mar-Vell's and Carol's introduction episode would make a good plot for a Carol movie just change a few things here and there and focus it on her.
They don't grandstand nearly as much as Marvel, which is part of why I like them and also part of why they're getting shit on. I mean, Marvel does the full-court press whenever they do anything vaguely progressive, and people eat it up.
>DC is fucking terrible at public relations for some reason.
Blame Stan the Man, ever since he took over in Marvel it has been this way. DC could never figure out how to fight Stan's antics, and the perception has lasted ever since.
I mean, either they're doing it for shits and giggles, or they're doing it because they think it's right
either way they're certainly not crowing about it at every turn like Marvel
I remember being flabbergasted when the new 52 launched and there were several female heroes getting their own solos, along with the birds of prey, and other team books. Marvel had ZERO books starring women, but were still loved by sjws. DC just can't catch a break.
>It's because DC can't market for shit
>DC is fucking terrible at public relations for some reason.
Because no matter what they do, they will be attacked by Disney-owned media.
>Because no matter what they do, they will be attacked by Disney-owned media.
Disney hasn't always been owned by Marvel, are you a new reader? Marvel has been good at the PR game for decades. DC for some fucked up reason cannot win when it comes to that game.
>Because no matter what they do, they will be attacked by Disney-owned media.
Nope! This is historically one of DC's huge flaws >>79842588
Disney has nothing to with it, it's an internal DC issue which they have never been able to figure out.
The one good thing is that Marvel's seeing diminishing returns. Controversy and constant renumberings are starting to just drive people off, and all their grandstanding about how progressive they are is starting to ring hollow, possibly due to their employees shooting their mouths off over twitter without thinking too hard.
Both of them do it for one thing: money. Get this into your head, both companies are as cynical as it gets, and they just want your money. Their methods vary, their goal doesn't.
If you haven't figured it out and think one of them is the good one and the other the evil one, you must be underage b&
Oh no, they can do plenty wrong, they just have better PR than DC, largely due to Stan Lee being a great showman. The difference is when Marvel does wrong, everyone forgives them.
>continuously gets her book relaunched to try to bring in new readers
>constantly has to have other characters come in to try to prop up sales
>maybe one run where it wasn't ongoing clusterfuck
>still beats Captain Marvel in sales
That's how you know Marvel keep fucking up with Captain Marvel
Not to mention if you showed Captain Carol and Wonder Woman to a bunch of little girls I bet mpst of them would pick Wonder Woman over Carol, Diana has that magical girl look.
Also aside from Kamala, Wasp, and She-Hulk Marvel doesn’t have a lot of female characters that would be attractive for little girls without going through a major make over.
Also the current female characters in the MCU movies are mostly damsels or agents. Widow? Yeah all that tortured red on muh ledger and black catsuit wouldn't appeal to them and most little girls like Thor and Hulk. I guess Sif has potential but Marvel really fucked up by featuring Jane more than her.
>Marvel's #1 relaunches and events only providing one-issue boosts at best
>DC moving more into the bookstore trades market
>Image just sort of tootling along like it always has
>Tom King getting more exposure
>DC moving into bookstore trades market
I still don't know why this didn't happen sooner. Surely they should've figured out ages ago that floppies aren't desirable to the mass market.
Disney has the little/preteen girl and womanchild demo on lock.
They bought marvel and lucasarts so they could get the boy demographic. Anyone upset they're not catering to girls is blindly missing the point.
I'm sorry to tell you this anon, but... Lucasarts is... Lucasarts is dead. Lucasfilm went with a walk with him and then, when he thought no one was watching, he ripped Lucasarts' head off. It was horrible. Like a chicken.
well they finally did it and it's great because now I can apply my B&N membership to my crippling addiction to buying new trades
and that 3-for-2 yearly Christmas sale has gotten me like 6 omnis
It did happen sooner.
They started doing more OGNs with Earth One and random ones like Black Canary/Zatanna and NTT: Games. This was about 2010-2011? The latter ones probably didn't sell as well so they stopped doing that, but did more with their Earth One books as a result.
Marvel started the same officially in 2013.
I'm the person who made the list and included "arguably Azz" and I'm a Perezfag. Perez did the best run of WW hat there's ever ben.
It wouldn't affect you at all except that good comics would sell longer, unless you watch the View and don't want it ruined with comic books or something.
I actually kind of liked the "I love everyone" line, but that's about all I can give it.
>good comics would sell longer
Yeah, like Marvel...
> Perezfags getting triggered
they are though
if you look at drops between #1 to #2, they fall about to where they were before the relaunch, and then just continue their downward trend
they're seriously just propped up by Star Wars at this point, and that well will dry up eventually
>There is only one original Captain Marvel, and that is Billy Batson.
Should point out that when Brevoort says this he's referring to the original Fawcett Comics version.
>Fawcett 1939-1953 - 14 years
>Marvel 1967-2015 - 48 years
>DC acquired rights 1972 - 5 years too late
It's Marvel's now by dint of most usage and time. It's never been DC's. #justiceforfawcett
>if you look at drops between #1 to #2, they fall about to where they were before the relaunch, and then just continue their downward trend
Oh but then they flood the Market, and they relaunch.
>they're seriously just propped up by Star Wars at this point, and that well will dry up eventually
By the way I'm a DC fag, and I want them to get their head out of their ass and BTFO Marvel, but 'waiting for Marvel to fuck up' is not a great strategy.
I don't think DC does it because it's the right thing to do but they have been doing the whole diversity shit since the 80's and way long before Marvel started to cash in on it. They had the first female superhero team that wasn't a "lol fuck men wen r better" strawman with Birds of Prey and had tons of female led comic titles and titles lead by non white characters when Marvel had like one or two, and they were also having gay characters kiss and hug when Marvel was still too scare to show Billy and Teddy hold hands.
Fuck when they showed the first pictures of the JLU cartoon a lot of nerds got triggered because it had WW, Hawkgirl, and John Stewart and that was enough for that version of the Justice League to earn the nickname of Minorileague.
And I don't even think the Timm and the others were trying to be PC or do the right thing when they chose that team.
even #1 sales are dropping at this point
and you can bet your sweet ass that after 2 or 3 years of constant Star Wars
that will probably just amount to rehashes of the OT, people are going to lose interest
I think he needs to be like Captain Shazam or something. Shazam feels too empty. Like how Freddy called himself King Shazam.
Marvel's had the X-Men since the 60s and they have been the byword for acceptance, inclusion and diversity since then. Northstar's been gay since his creation in 1979 and was married in the comics at the same time DC was messing around with Batwoman to make her appear less gay. Take off the DC blinkers, buddy.
Marvel had the first black superhero and the first black superhero solo title, and then DC copied them with >worst GL.
Marvel probably copied a shit ton things off them. Both of them publish whatever they think will sale.
I'll never care about Carol until she and Wanda are pals again.
You want me to tell you why SJWs like Marvel? It's because it's "relatable". SJWs don't want to read a "power fantasy". That's why they don't like DC, DC at its core is about super heroes and how their personal life occasionally interferes with super heroing. Marvel is about people's social lives and about having super powers and super heroing interferes with their social lives. DC is for escapism, Marvel is for being relatable.
>DC is for escapism, Marvel is for being relatable.
I hope you're just explaining their false reasoning, and that you don't sincerely believe this yourself.
Marvel's method of making characters relatable is to make them all unlikable little shits. That's the only difference.
How is a woman with cosmic powers on a superhero team that fights to save the universe relateable? This meme that Marvel characters are relateable needs to stop. The Marvel universe is just as much escapism as DC, Marvel characters are just unlikeable assholes.
Hey guys I have a confession.
BOTH DC AND MARVEL!
the biggest marvel female is Storm
X-Men were the biggest comic book for 2 decades and a half, and she was the the leader, along with Cyclops.
when Marvel had to pick a vagina to fight against Wonder Woman in Marvel vs DC they picked Storm.
That was bullshit, because Storm won (she shouldnt beat Wonder Woman, although I think that was decided by fan vote) and also I think Wonder Woman should have fought Thor, not Storm.
The problem Marvel has is almost all their popular female characters are mutants.
The Carol thing is difficult because it is hard to make a household name out of a c list character, although they succeeded with Guardians of the Galaxy.
Although I am sure making Carol will be much harder. Guardians could be sold to people as a Star Wars substitute.
Sorry, but no. There is only one Captain Marvel, and that is
Thor's a god, with a complete backstory that mirrors the Norse legends. When Marvel does Superman analogues they tend to fuck around with them for teh giggles: Sentry went mad, and Hyperion is alternately good/evil depending on the writers' mood.
I am pretty sure Wonder Woman could take being hit by thunder like a champ. And Storm has the strength of a normal woman.
I know Storm is super powerful, and could destroy a medium size country with a massive hurricane, but I dont think hundreds of km fast winds would be a problem for Wonder Woman.
For wonder woman Marvel should have picked a mythical person with super human strength, like Hercules or Thor, not their most popular female.
well it's different because, unless it's been retconned, being the phoenix IS her power.
think of how magnetism existed before magneto, but manipulating magnetism is still his own power. Or how light existed before but monica rambeau is sitll made of living light and it is her own power and the maximum amount of light she can use depends on her own power.
Jean was born with the power to use and be the phoenix.
Carol's book was an early beneficiary of "social media" promotion. Everything about it was calculated to appeal to that segment of the fanbase - even the costume was designed for the purposes of cosplay (parents don't like their kids cosplaying in bathing suits). DeConnick pushed it on Tumblr relentlessly and cleverly, and editor Steve Wacker was good at getting media coverage.
Carol herself was not a very interesting character in this incarnation but it hardly matters. The point of the book and the promotion was that she was a Strong Woman who Punches Dinosaurs and doesn't wear bathing suits. The *idea* of Carol is what has a fan base, but then that's true of better characters too (people like the idea of Wonder Woman better than most of her comics).
>tfw Carol's book is good now, she finally has her personality back, and soon the KSDCorps will fuck off
Yeah, Butters and Fazekas show the upside of getting Hollywood screenwriters to write comics, at least when compared to "real" comics writers like KSD. But because they're busy doing other things they don't have time to promote their work as relentlessly as KSD did, so they'll get less press coverage.
This is 1000% accurate. Im cool with Carol being the figurehead that shes become to female readers. What I'm not cool with is people putting her on a pedestal as *the* female hero, and that everything prior to her is just ass and tits in a skimpy costume.
In the early 90's they were trying to sell Firestar as the most powerful. Since apparently she has fire powers like Human Torch and Sunfire only she has no upper limit to them.
Then Rachel Summers
Typically a mutant.
Problem is half the major female characters in Marvel were mutants or X-related in some way. Dropping the mutants means no Jean Gray, Storm, Rogue, Psylocke, Jubilee, or Kitty.
They are going to have to go back and start promoting Wasp, Monica, Sue Storm, Sersi, Tigra, and Mockingbird again.
>SJWs don't want to read a "power fantasy".
Spider-Man, the Incredible Hulk, She-Hulk and Captain America are as power fantasy as they can get.
They're not alien gods, crazy millionaires bent on revenge or mythical amazons. They're the embodiment of "i wish i was a hero to fuck up my bullies".
>Marvel's had the X-Men since the 60s and they have been the byword for acceptance, inclusion and diversity since then
It's easy to just have a team that's an allegory for acceptance and inclusion when 90+% of the characters are white heterosexual Americans.
Carol is such a clusterfuck of a character but now that she carries the Captain Marvel name she should fight cosmic and interdimensional threats which I guess is what she is kind of doing right now.
Too bad Marvel is dragging her to the Civil War II BS, worst is that they are dragging Thanos and the GotG into it.
X-Men didn't become what they are until Claremont, actually read the old comics by Stan and they discrimination angle thing is no worst than Spider-Man getting shit from the general population.
Funny because before the SJW Marvel pandering shit started most female comic readers read DC, mainly because of Birds of Prey and the Bat Family, especially the Robins, bitches love the Robins.
Hell you can even say the whole SJW movement started with DC because shit like Girl-wonder.org and DC Superheroines kickass mainly focused on criticizing and analyzing DC comics.
I also distinctly recall someone asking the girl-wonder owner in a forum why she didn’t talk shit about Marvel and her saying "Because I don't give a fuck about Marvel"
And lets be real, Marvel Comics' popularity is mainly because of the success of the MCU.
I love how we're going to get Carol as a jack-booted fascist in BOTH Civil Wars. Even Tony is on the right side this time, but not Carol. It's like Marvel doesn't actually care about her at all, and the whole Captain Marvel push is every bit as cynical as we've made it out to be.
Jason is quite popular among the tumblr crowd, they're the ones who invented the Feminist Jason Todd as their headcanon and then started demanding DC comply with it.
Nobody cares about Tim anymore.
That makes it even worse. Millar isn't writing this time, is he?
I feel like I need to always remind people just how badly Iron Man was fucked up by Civil War. Readers and fans HATED Tony in the aftermath of Civil War. Half the reason we even had Dark Reign and Siege was so people would forgive Tony. If it weren't for Robert Downey Jr., Civil War might have marked Iron Man's permanent demotion to C-List status.
And now they want to stick Carol in his role... oof.
Tim had his own solo series for over 15 years. He was big for a long time.
Is Spider-Man going to switch sides midway through this one, too?
She'd have to go lightform to do it, and as Carol is an energy absorber... well... It's often not a matter of pure power levels but the individual powersets providing a rock-paper-scissors side to it too.
If there's a Mary Sue type on the Ultimates who's about to get her ego curbstomped it's MAC. Brashear and T'Challa will have a plan to deal with her should she try to 'shut them down' when they start meddling in interdimensional affairs.
Imagine being the Phoenix
Just chilling around the galaxy frying some niggas
And then this cunt on some backwater shit planet discovers her powers and you have to fly all the way to fucking Earth of all places to sit inside her body
DC had a webcartoon dedicated to female Batman characters and Matty had tried hard for years to get more DC Barbie's on shelves but the inner divisions of Mattel are as bad as the ones at WB. Barbie's team wouldn't even do a She-Ra Barbie for SDCC one year for Matty because they didn't really care about the brand even though Matty said it was a highly requested item that would probably sell well.
Incredible Hulk is just as unbelievable as Superman bro. Wolverine is an immortal superweapon who grows his entire body back from a cell at least once. Iron Man is the same fucking thing as Batman minus the pathos.
The real difference between Marvel and DC is that outside Spider-Man Marvel is just about superheroes hanging out with superheroes, while DC is about superheroes and the normal people in their lives.
I noticed the other day that Marvel has a tendency to give their supporting casts powers to make them relevant where as DC lets writers just create new supporting casts to keep things fresh.
Jane Foster, Pepper Pots, Flash Thompson, Rick Jones, Amadeus Cho. That's just the tip of the iceberg. Not to say DC wouldn't or doesn't do it just that I've noticed it with Marvel given how few supporting casts that aren't other heroes there really are.
>The real difference between Marvel and DC is that outside Spider-Man Marvel is just about superheroes hanging out with superheroes, while DC is about superheroes and the normal people in their lives.
Ms Marvel also did the superhero hanging with normal people stuff, and honestly was much better for it.
Which I supppose is another notch for that whole "Kamala is basically a Spider-Man for a new generation" thing.
Kamala is just Blue Beetle but with a real fanbase and we all know it. There are differences but the books are the same in tone and focus. Not knocking her but its just how it is.
It doesn't matter if you have more female characters or a more diverse staff. You can do everything right you possible can do.
If you get snippy with one obnoxious cosplayer, and that's it for your company forever.
Monica would destroy Carol in an all-out fight anon. Carol isn't immune to energy attacks and radiation. Monica probably is due for a shutdown at some point in Ultimates though given they made a point of defining a weakness for her.
Captain Marvel(Carol Danvers) would curbstomp Monica. All Carol would have to do is absorb Monica's energy and go binary. Monica would be toast. Oh, and talk shit about Carol's shit not selling. How much has Monica's solo series sold? Can anybody remind me? I forgot.
That's what I figured - she'd just absorb Monica when in her lightform and shoot her out into a reactor or something. It was actually a party trick they did in KSD's run to destroy the really big robot - a 'lightspeed special'.
This is a pretty neat idea and I'm expecting Ewing to re-use it at some point in Ultimates.
Monica is immune to physical attacks in lightform, which Ultimates confirms she is in pretty much all the time now.
Monica has a literally limitless source of energy which she can alter to any frequency on the electromagnetic spectrum. All she would have to do is overload Carol or change to a form of energy that it is hurtful or dangerous for Carol to absorb. Monica is also incomparably faster than Carol so this fight is immediately off to a loser.