What the hell happened to comics in the 90s? All the women turned into strippers and all the men into super-pumped muscle freaks.
Watchaman happend and it "killed Superheores".
So now every series needed to be "real", which by those the writer's standards meant filled with violance, guns and sexy chicks.
I kind of miss it.
'90s wasn't really "real", though. It was very cartoonish. I'd say it's more edge and darkness that they were trying to enulate from Watchmen. And in general, it was a reaction to the "safe, boring" comics of previous years.
Just like the grounded, "realistic" trend that followed was a reaction to '90s cartoonishness. Or how the most recent "light and fun" trend emerged as a reaction to that.
I know right? It was the best of times for 14 year olds.
Not all of it went that way though.
We got some books like pic related which were some of the best Superhero comics to come out.
I don't know what you're on about.
There's a book about the downfall of Marvel that explains this.
The gist is that the execs of Marvel saw the speculator market take off and decided Marvel needed to be "changed" to maximize sales to speculators. Shooter was fired so that there'd be no one in their way and the company immediately turned toward XTREME style shit, which was what the execs thought the speculators wanted for some reason.
Then the biggest Marvel artists all left the company and founded Image which was based on the Marvel execs' XTREME way of doing things which caused the speculator market to get even bigger and made the XTREME style the defacto standard of the industry.
Had nothing to do with Watchmen.
Watchmen didn't really become definitively influential until the late 90s and 2000s when the "high concept superhero comic" became the gold standard of the industry.
The Dark Knight Returns was MUCH more influential in its day.
Everybody was over-muscled and stripperific.
More like Shazam by way of Hulk, really.
He just played the Superman role in his universe.
I unironically love the character, though.
Fun fact, he was also a host for the Phoenix Force once, and briefly became Spider-Man.
He's all sorts of fun.
Marvel bought out Malibu and they did a few cross overs before cancelling the line.
She had a brief mini-series, showed up in Prime a few times, then the line was cancelled.
None of the Malibu crew have been used since. Real shame, they could've been a cool addition to Marvel's multiverse, but I think creator's rights have something to do with it. None of the original creators are employed so none of their characters can be used, as far as I know.
Oh, i see, thanks for the info. That's quite unfortunate, none of the characters from Malibu Comics will ever see the light of day again.
The youth of me back then was quite enamored by Mantra. Also my first introduction to Terry Dodson.
Dude was a male sorcerer whose soul got stuck in the body of a woman.
They eventually became two separate people again and became a couple with...interesting results.
I'd say the comics from around the early 2000s to the advent of the Social Justice era in the last few years were far edgier than any 90s stuff. The '90s shit is so cartoonish that you can't really take it seriously whereas the 2000s was all the same shit except instead of being cartoonish they covered it in dark colors and made it more "real".
The current age is more embarassing than anything the '90s ever put out. Nothing from the last few years is going to ever be remembered except negatively.
You're making that book out to be more pro-Shooter than it is (i.e. not at all). I more or less like the book but Howe definitely has an agenda as a MUH CREATORS RIGHTS fag and anyone seen as being a potential enemy (Shooter) gets pilloried while ones who are (especially Gerber) are deified.
There was nothing wrong with the 90s designs
90's reminds me of X-force and stuff like the old The Mask comic, where there was still violence and guns and knives and blood but it was all colored brightly and so over the top it was still "cartoony". Hell, remember Adam X's costume? It was a mix of x-treme and RADICALNESS.
I think the 2000's is where stuff like the X-men movies started taking hold in comics, so everyone dressed in tacticool "serious" costumes. Radical was eradicated and from what I remember it was more boring than edgy. I can't really remember much about the 2000's because it didn't really have much of a theme that stood out. I guess it was more of a response to the 90's in that it tried to be as "serious" as possible by cutting out the wackiness.
2010's was/is definitely the "progressive" age of comics. Good or bad, that's clearly what it's going to be remembered for. The decade where white and male was replaced with various shades of brown and female.
Elven. She's 13 year old girl who can create a pseudo-organic super body around herself and because she's a fantasy nut she turns herself into an elf warrior goddess.
She's also fairly troubled and convinces herself that she really is from a fantasy world in order to cope with her abusive home life and Daddy issues.
I think Ellis' Authority was what started the trend of "decompressed", "wide-screen" action style comics, wasn't it?
Ultimates was pretty much Millar doing The Authority with Marvel characters, right?
Oh yeah this makes sense. Yeah this is totally 00's stuff. I've been reading the Authority for a while and it's still pretty good, but man that style of comic gets boring after a while.
Sure, but Ultimates finalized the "action movie pitch" aspect to it which is pretty big in oughties stuff. Authority was still to a large degree crazy fantastical stuff. You had people with pure godlike powers, weird-ass cosmic backstories, huge-scale stuff that harkened more back to Kirby than to the Punisher. Ultimates took the Avengers and reduced them down to what you'd expect to see in a movie. Generic alien threat, generic supervillains, tone down all the characters in style and power, that kind of thing. I personally believe that is more indicative of the 00s trend in cape comics.
You know what really tells me that most 90s costumes sucked?
Videogames will often give characters tons of alternate outfits. It's extremely rare for a character to get his 90s outfit as one of them (except for certain X-Men)
I find your observations insightful and agree with them.
Now, more 90s fan service!
By that notion, whenever there's a media spinoff or toy, the "classic" costume for a character tends to be the most demanded. Like, look at Marvel Legends. The current costumes whenever they get made tend to pegwarm like fuck, but they make classic red Daredevil? Suddenly gone EVERYWHERE
True enough, but there's the odd exception.
I think Rogue is the only character who leather over spandex ever looked good on.
I know that dumbass, but enough were replaced for that to be what this decade is going to be remembered for. Much like how not all of the 90's was grim and pouches but that's all everyone likes to talk about.
>2010's was/is definitely the "progressive" age of comics. Good or bad, that's clearly what it's going to be remembered for. The decade where white and male was replaced with various shades of brown and female.
And comics were replaced by movies, TV, empty shelves and dust.
Yeah, nah. The 90s was massively dominated by a single artsyle and tone. If you think the existence of Ms. Marvel and Falcon Cap are anywhere near that in terms of defining an era, you're off your meds. Black and female heroes are not a new thing.
The stories weren't bad at all, but the costumes...
Yeah, when it was shown that Ironman had a ground crew in Ultimates, and the shit with Bruce and Pym being fuck ups and Cap being Cap; real world politcs being jammed inI don't know it just seemed like capes with everything that make capes comics worth reading stripped out of it and a bunch of movie wank put in to replace it.
>You're making that book out to be more pro-Shooter than it is (i.e. not at all)
I dunno, the book seemed pretty sympathetic to Shooter's pov. He was brought in to get everyone to fall in line, and that's what he did.
This is just wrong. Watchmen was MASSIVELY influential. It completely changed comics, along with TDKR.
For example, in interviews many of the Image guys directly say that it was the appearance of both Watchmen and TDKR that got them back into comics. Joe Quesada has said the same thing.
Watchmen was a huge influence on the generation coming up into comics in the late 1980s. The problem was they generally weren't good enough to match Moore's insight and nuance, so they just emulated the violence and "darkness".
Oh, I completely agree. There was a much bigger trend towards XTREME EDGE in the 90s than there is any kind of "SJW" trend now. As much as /pol/ types get their panties twisted about Thor/Ms. Marvel/The Falcon/Batgirl/whoever, it's really only a handful of characters with little impact on the industry overall.
A huge chunk of creators were definitely imitating the Liefeld/Image style in the early 90s.
Sono chino sadame.... JOJO!!!!
Now with 60% less posing
Is Artemis the quintessential 90s female character design?
>mfw I hate Peter Parker nowadays and prefer Miguel as the true Spiderman
Holy shit guys I've been on a 90's kick recently.
witchblade and fathom being some favorites. I also read all of the top cow tomb raider comics, they had varying quality. Any recommendations?
>comics in the 90s? All the women turned into strippers and all the men into super-pumped muscle freaks.
I really hate hyperbole like this.
It is the equivalent to saying all guys in the 1980s wore Micahel Jackson Thriller jackets and listened to Flock of Seagulls.
The odd thing at Marvel was that the EDGY EXTREMISM went hand in hand with a very old-fashioned approach.
So the editor in chief, Tom DeFalco, was writing Fantastic Four and Thor, and they were both blatant pastiches of Lee and Kirby (especially Thor, because artist Ron Frenz is a Kirby swipe artist), but they would occasionally work in EXTREME '90s elements like Stripper Sue.
I guess the era kind of came to an end when the X-Books abandoned the Jim Lee style and went for a more cartoony, manga-influenced style around 1994-5.
>not wanting to be EXTREME
I agree to an extent. I do find a lot of shit today boring and uninteresting, and the 90's certainly had it's own flair and characters. 90's seems to have had more "larger-than-life' characters and nowadays it seems to be that everyone needs a human element to keep them grounded.
Everything didn't have to be real, it had to be *EXTREME!!!!*
Tat means everyone was huge, had guns even though they had powers and did not need guns, lots of ammo pouches, everyone had chin stubble, and typically a cyber arm or leg, and had to wear some kind of armor or metal even if they were already invulnerable. Also brown leather trenchcoats were worm over the tights.
Everyone was required to be a super gritty action movie hero with armor, ammo pouches and guns despite their powers. The women had to be the over the top R rated flick action chicks in tights.
Just FYI, Azbats was supposed to be a parody of 90s XTREME EDGE. It was supposed to be a "You kids think you want an XTREME BATMAN? Well here's the most ridiculously XTREME BATMAN possible, see how shit this is?"
90s was the true golden age of comic books. No other era of comics delivered pure, unadulterated fun. Nowadays comics are all diluted by liberal agenda, and pre-90s comics were too tame to keep you awake.
>Unless you're reading something like Punisher, which makes you a faggot to begin with.
Why are you batfaggots so obnoxious? you can't go one moment without putting down either punisher, or superman, or anyone.
The one thing that I did like about the 90s comics that I have read is that the characters didn't have a quality of sexlessness. Sure, plenty of them were a bit oversexed or absurdly muscular, but at least when a guy and a girl got together and they were supposed to be more than friends, I could believe that in their interactions. Relationships weren't as sanitized. "Nobody masturbates in DC"
was a rule that's existed for years, but now that everybody just makes sexy poses in lieu of actual fucking, it's become way more visible than it was before.
I loved when they gave Spidey a metal arm for like 3 pages, it was obvious parody but it was funny.
Not as funny as Spider-Phoenix though,
Ah yes, these are the comics /co/ has been screaming for ever since Marvel launched it's "SJW" era.
Look back children, this is what we are fighting for, what we must have back, these are what "the good old days" were!
HUGE guns, HUGE man-muscles, HUGE boobs, HUGE hair, AND F*%#ING MULLETS!
That's all we ever needed for a comic to be good in the '90s.
I read that comic, he got his ass kicked like a red-headed stepchild, broke his arm and that was a "cyber" cast he was wearing to be able to fight with a broken arm as it healed super-science fast.
Yeah but then it gets blown off the very next fight he has. Besides there's no explanation for the xtreme monocle, or the Rambo/Ryu headband,
I must have read Revenge of the Sinister 6 like 50 times as a kid. I was a sucker for 90s Xtreme shit, I probably still am a bit.
When I think of 90's I can just picture that generic story you'd see EVERYWHERE.
Starts with big roided up guy sitting naked on his bed with hot naked chick asleep. Sometimes the chick talks to him in a "What's wrong, baby?" kind of way.
Then you have the guy being dropped by helicopter into a hot zone of faceless "terrorists" in a jungle or something.
Guy goes into the base and effortlessly kills everyone. Then speech bubble from off panel, our hero shouts "YOU-!", and we see some character the protag presumably knows (usually a lady for some reason), and end of issue, gotta get the next one to find out who the fuck this character is!
I can very distinctly remember a Deadpool comic and several Youngblood arcs that followed this pattern. Does this seem really familiar to anyone else or am I misremembering?
Action movie beats. The writers and artists were heavily inspired by the big action flicks of the 80s and 90s, and that setup is pretty much the start of any given pastiche of those movies. People talk a lot about Watchmen and Dark Knight, but the true inspirations for most Extreme 90s comics were Terminator, Commando and Rambo.
Solo would have fit even better in the 00s. His gimmick is to ruthlessly hunt and exterminate terrorist. Terrorism was more of a joke in the 90s, it was something you saw in an action movie. Much too ridiculous to think it could ever be a real threat to western countries.
Who is the big orange Abomination-looking thing?
"Now that we're not adhering to comics alliance censorship bullshit, lets throw out anything vaguely interesting we were doing because fetishy stuff might offend our audience" -Marvel
They were jettisoning the Malibu characters anyway, they gave no shits. Marvel bought out Malibu purely for the digital coloring studio, which was miles over Marvel's own. The comics they let run for a little over a year following the buyout with a load of shitty Marvel Universe crossovers thrown in, but most of the original Malibu writers left when the merger happened and the replacements were bottom of the barrel Marvel 90s shit. So it didn't matter to them. They probably thought more people might like Mantra if she was another generic blonde teenage female hero without any complicated backstory of having had a dick.
Not true. The whole point of Azrael was that he was a Batman willing to ride the line or kill, and ultimately he's the villain of the story that needs to be defeated by Dick and Tim.
From what I've gathered from my copies of Chaos Rules and Damnation Game(Extinction Express KS is ongoing right now if you're curious) a mix of both, now that Brian has full creative control and ownership of the character again we're seeing some pretty cool shit the way he wants to do it.
Character designs are at times more covered but still quite sexy, all tight leather and hips, new addition to the cast of villains, Hellwitch, feels like a callback to the heady days of Chaos! so it should tickle your fancy, it did mine at least.
70 year old guy reporting in.
I was using this website here with my grandson and I saw these posts and thought it might be worth offering some insight from the perspective of a comic book store owner at the time Watchmen was first published.
I can say from experience that The Dark Knight Returns outsold Watchmen by a pretty penny. In the years that followed comics began to gravitate toward the violent antihero ways, something that Watchmen was not. Maybe they're a bit more conceptually oriented nowadays, I wouldn't know, but that Image style that soon overwhelmed the industry and dominated in sales was 100% derived from The Dark Knight Returns.
So irrelevant of Watchmen's long-term influence, it was The Dark Knight Returns that spawned that whole mess of badly drawn bloodbaths during the whole "speculation" craze.
In the 90s, people thought "realistic" MEANT "edgy and gritty and dark", because they fundamentally misunderstood what was supposed to be realistic about the "realistic superheroes" in Watchmen.
I think that 90s are the way they are, because they had a massive influx of adolescent buy who were getting into comics, and it reflected what they wanted to read. it's similar nowadays, however, while the 90s had decent sales, currently, the target audience is not really purchasing the comics.
I didn't buy variants, but I got stung by Valaint which started, if not strong, at least with promise, andthen fizzled to shit. I have a lomgbox of that shit. If it doesn't have BWS, it is, for the most part shit.
I enjoyed the period, over all, though. But I was down to one monthly comic by the end of the nineties: Savage Dragon.
The Punisher has been around since the 70s, yet he still gets spoken of as if he appeared in the 90s when in fact he went too extreme and shit like the other comics during that time, and crashed really hard. He essentially vanished during that period.
He doesn't get proper credit, The Punisher has always been a rather conservative comic even if it is about a gunslinging vigilante with a skull on his chest. A lot his earlier to mid to late 90s runs were never edgy unless you've never seen an action movie before.
Weren't those ongoings that began in the 80s?
Oh my yes. I really hate some comic geeks' abuse of that word, and that abuse was at it's peak in the 90s. Man, use a ghaddam dictionary! Sin City isn't any more "realistic" that Tiny Titans, it's just goofy and over the top in a different way.