Like all other DCU and MU relationships, Harley/Ivy is just doomed to status quo status now. They'll always have an on-again, off-again thing going, but to an extent, Ivy will always pine for Harley, who will always intermittently return to her "Mister J."
Maybe if we get a Harley solo film with Robbie, she'll end up with Ivy in that. But it's only going to be in certain stories from now on that Harley finally ditches Joker for Ivy for good, not in the comics canon where nothing every changes.
So there's your step forward: LGBT relationships can now be like boring straight relationships in comics. I do think it's good, in a way, even 20 years of no-change later. It does say something,
>>79819701 >sluts around with Mason >sluts around with Hal >will try to slut around with Joker again >HURR I LOVE YA RED This is why. Harley is an obnoxious, overrated, loud mouthed spokesdog. Overly sexualized and a tired character at this point.
Why doesn't Batman, a world class forensic psychologist, arrange for folks like Harley, Ivy, Nygma, and Dent to if not get the help they need, at least be put in situations where their collective psychoses can be put to good use?
How many times does Arkham have to not work for him to take shit into his own hands?
>>79820247 See that's what makes her less than she was. Part of her character is her obsession and need for Joker. She's also not a hero. She's a lovable villain who gets under your guard. Less evil when Joker is around and worse when he is. Now she's the latter all the time, on her own.
It was part of her uniqueness and depth. Part of the reason she even became a hit in the first place. Something that is extremely hard to do with new characters. Now they're changing her to fit a more mainstream generality. I don't have a problem with mainstream generality but not all characters need to be that. They don't all need to be perfect independent characters. To me what they're doing is making her less of what she is.
I just played Arkham Knight AR challenge with HQ. .Jjust in that short amount of time I got more Harley than in the entirety of her own book.
You know what wasn't really there in anything but reference? Joker. So, you can easily have an HQ book without the Joker in it showing up all the time and still preserve the character. They don't need to ruin their dynamic and change HQ. She's not going to be sitting on her butt twiddling her thumbs doing nothing while Joker is in the loony bin or out just doing his own thing on his own.
To me she's worse off. I had to stop buying her book and HQ was one of my favorite characters.
Sadly it's what happens to many characters that become popular. They get changed and forget the things that made them in the first place. It's part of what happened to Wolverine.
>>79820407 >Part of her character is her obsession and need for Joker. That's literally the biggest PROBLEM with her character.
Definitive traits are double edged swords, they either drive characters and provide something to build around or consume characters and flatten them, and Harley with the Joker around is as flat as seltzer water that got left out overnight. Literally the only places she has grown is away from the Joker.
I appreciate the fact that status quo is god, but when you maintain a very clearly unstable situation for 20 god damn years, there's a problem. I mean she's basically been trapped in a decent origin story for 2 fucking decades.
The relationship between Harley and Poison Ivy in Harley's books of late are terrible.
You've Harley slutting it up and hunting for guys all the fucking time, sometimes even in front of Poison Ivy, while Poison Ivy just stays there like a lost love puppy being ignored. Harley only pay Poison Ivy any attention when she needs help with something or when she's lonely and starts teasing.
Poison Ivy's treated as the friendzoned beta friend who's constantly there just waiting for her chance while Harley pursues men in her face, which is fucking bizarre because Poison Ivy used to be one of the biggest femme fatale while Harley was the lovely sidekick.
I'm not even a fan of the characters or the pairing, and even i find all of this very strange and off-putting, given how the characters used to be.
The problem with Harley's current direction, away from the Joker, is either pining for Deadshot in Suicide Squad or pining for this Mason guy in her own books.
They laid off the Deadshot thing in Suicide Squad, because frankly, what was up with that? It doesn't suit Deadshot one bit. But in her own books this Mason guy has nothing that makes him stand-out. Like, he's a criminal trying to turn a new leaf and a hunky, that's all?
So if it's either her pining for the Joker or pining for this lame OC, i'd rather be the Joker. At least with the Joker you get some gas for stories.
I just find messed up that the seductress femme fatale of the bunch became the loser friend/cucked lover.
Paul Dini gave them a nice dynamic: Harley was Pink and Poison Ivy was The Brain. Harley would start the ball rolling and bother Ivy with her antics, while Ivy would play the cool friend who's constantly getting irritated. It was fun seeing Harley drive Ivy up the walls. It worked because Ivy was still the cool femme fatale was Harley was the goofy troublemaker.
But in Harley's new comics the dynamic is fucked. Harley's the cool, the goofy, the seductress, the whole she-bang, while Ivy, when she appears, is just to play the nerdy-type or rebound chick.
Ivy deserves better, i think. I hope her mini makes her more independent.
Honestly the issue I have is that obsession doesn't fade like love does. They treat her as this normal girl who was corrupted by the joker and wasn't responsible for her actions, rather than an obsessive follower/disciple fascinated by jokers madness. I would love a book about her obsessive love becoming obsessive hate- Harley trying to usurp joker as the Clown Prince of Crime, perhaps becoming the Harley - Queen of Crime instead.
Said by who? Amanda Conner? Because that's fucking bullshit.
Harley spends more time in her comic crushing about Mason, talking about Mason, pursuing Mason and saving Mason, than she does for anything Poison Ivy related. Ivy's just there to play Donatello most of the times.
But the problem isn't the fact that Poison Ivy isn't fucking tons of guys in Harley's own books. It's a matter of role.
Poison Ivy's THE femme fatale, goddamn it. She seduces and controls people. She's the alpha female. So to have Ivy as a sad love puppy is really fucking weird.
Take OP's page. You've Harley talking about busting into Arkham to save this Mason guy from the Joker, because she loves this Mason dude, while Poison Ivy's just there with her sad eyes worried about Harley's safety. Harley even jokes about Ivy's feelings and tells her to stay put and wait for her (and her lover the Mason mate).
>>79823649 >>79823662 I believe Harley is crazy, which she is. And that you don't realize that she actually tries to protect her own and her city like a hero, despite occassional lapses in sanity. That's more than she ever did in Btas.
It's a shame because this is one of my favorite pairings in comics but writers at DC are fucking it up right now.
The entire appeal of the couple in the first place is that they're both damaged women who found each other. Harley has serious co-dependency issues while Ivy has serious trust issues and also tends to be domineering with both men and women. That means that their relationship isn't perfect and their issues aren't going to be resolved just because they found each other.
I think we all agree that Ivy should be the dominant one in this relationship. Harley has never been the kind of person to exercise personal freedom and she easily falls back into old habits. She needs to be co-dependent on Ivy in the way she was with the Joker because that's how Harley approaches relationships. Instead she's oddly independent in a way her character probably shouldn't be.
Also why doesn't Ivy seduce men anymore? That should probably still be a thing. Is it because Harley is the more popular character that they throw her around with different guys to tease shippers? It'd be interesting to see Harley actually get jealous of Ivy being with different guys and see Ivy make it up to her.
Also you know Harley's totally the one who suggested Ivy do kinky stuff to her with her plants the first time.
>>79824084 Because they are fucking retards. What's your problem? The more sexy lezzes, the better. The book has a shitload of anti SJW jokes and they still love it. The writers are quite nice in person and don't give a fuck about the Tumblr idiots. I don't care for lesbian stuff but I enjoy the sex scenes in this. Shit is hot. As long as SJWs don't mess with it I'll keep buying it.
Harley in Ivy were BFFs in the original cartoon series. In the comic adaptation, joke hints were dropped. After that, fanart carried the pairing until the new comics decided to toss the fandom a bone. They are not some true OTP pairing with a love that will last for eternity. They are fuck buddies. Plain and simple.
>>79824739 They're not as interesting when they're friends with benefits though. Sure it's hot but I feel like it should be written as more than fap fodder. Then again big two comics are notoriously shitty at romances so I probably shouldn't expect so much.
>>79824739 Did you know that Dini has Harley & Ivy as endgame right?. That if it was up to him Harley will drop Joker in favor of Ivy because they have much history together. Don't believe me? . Listen to this
>>79827335 She had a normal childhood but her first crush was a kid who killed a girl who was bullying Harley. So right off the bat you knew she was unstable.
She became a doctor and chose to work at Arkham Asylum because she was always fascinated by broken minds. She colored her hair red and black in an attempt to fit in with the other nuts. She then fell in love with Joker. Later on, he dumped her in a vat of chemicals that bleached her skin white. The rest is already known.
>>79827510 Wow. That's... really bad actually. For one it completely undermines what the Joker did to her if she was always crazy. It just means he found another psycho chick who thinks like him. Not to mention all of that other shit reeks of tryhard edgelord fanfiction.
>>79819910 Sex and love ain't exactly the same thing. Love is the emotion where you have someone that you feel you cannot do without. Sex is when you shove genitalia together until you achieve orgasm. That's why it's possible to have sex with people you don't like. Or even with people you hate. Or like... a pillow.
>>79820407 I think the best characterization was earlier Harley Quinn comics. Where she was finally getting away from the Joker. One thing I've noticed is the idea that, when she works alone, she's better at what the Joker does and it drives Joker crazy. So when they're working together, Joker's actually holding her back. But without Joker, Harley doesn't have a lot of focus and just kinda does whatever silly idea pops into her head. While it helps for her to have someone who can reel her in, she seems to thrive most when she's alone.
>>79819188 I don't see the problem here. I think the writers are trying to get across that neither of them are interested in being anything more than fuckbuddies. Them being in a monogamous relationship wouldn't make sense for either of their characters, considering that Harley is a nymphomaniac and Ivy is a seductive maneater.
>>79829092 >For one it completely undermines what the Joker did to her if she was always crazy. It doesn't undermine anything. He was still the trigger for her life of crime and was still the alpha in the relationship. Despite being separated and despite the abuse, Harley still loves him. That hasn't changed.
The only difference is that she remains crazy as a solo character because she chooses to do so.
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