How does /co/ feel about Kieron Gillen? I've recently moved on from knowing him from X-Men (AVX Consequences was the last good X-Book) to creator owned stuff like Phonogram.
His Young Avengers was hot garbage. Darth Vader is alright but the evil Threepio and R2 got real old real fast.
never read his independent stuff
seems like a superhipster.
still, the last good X-team writer in ages.
that's pretty good too.
Definitely is a super hipster. But as someone who's really into music something in Phonogram (and a little bit but less-so in Wicked and Divine) has resonated hard with me lately.
All the Phonogram volumes are limited series, but it just seems like he really knows how to tell a story well.
What's Journey into Mystery about though?
I fucking love him
I mean, some of the times he panders to himself hard are annoying, but overall he's great.
>entry level white bitch music
>only decent thing Kieron has ever written.
I have to disagree with you there.
Three was great.
Uber is great.
Vader is fantastic.
UXM is the best X-Men run in recent years
Phonogram is good
WicDiv is good as well
it has its ups and downs, but it's been solid overall
Yeah, you're wrong. I'll give you UXM, but that's just a sad testament to the main X books, WicDiv too if you're just flipping pages with your brain off, but it's really just on the bad side of bland and mediocre, something you want to avoid at all costs in creator owned work.
God dammit this thread makes me wish Marvel treated all the AvX stuff relating to Scott differently. Could it have killed them to try and have a grey area to all of it? I didn't hate the Bendis stuff as much as some people but boy did he drive Scott into the ground as the bad guy. Last I saw he got killed in Secret Wars and I don't know what's up with him since because I haven't been reading any X-books.
Re-read my post. You're wrong, those books are all shit, Kieron is a shit writer. Read more comics by other writers, and realize how bad he is. Just make sure to focus real hard on the words, and interpret them correctly.
Apparently killing him once wasn't good enough and they killed him again while he attacked the inhumans for releasing terrigen mists (apparently toxic to mutants.)
So basically, they took a complex story, reduced it to a black and white mindless fight
and THEN had that scott killed just to be killed again in an even MORE black and white mindless fight
Fuck you ya cunt, it's 4am.
And Gillen is not a shit writer. And I do read a lot, not just comics. A shit writer is someone like Bendis who has clearly stopped giving a shit, or Tieri, who can't write dialogue or plot a story to save his life.
Gillen can clearly craft a story with characters that aren't one dimensional and morally black and white. He can plot an overarching story that weaves together well. He knows how to use beats and the craft of comics to his advantage.
You're the bloody ignorant one here.
All around the world random people start succumbing to a highly infectious and seemingly supernatural virus that turns them into violent inhibition-less psychotics who exist only to commit the worst atrocities that they can think up, not caring about anything else, even their own survival.
It's essentially an edgier version of 28 Days Later or The Crazies (the original).
Gillen's arc ("Homo Tortor" - Badlands #75-80) had two plots, one set in the present, and another set in prehistory. There was a weird twist ending that leaves you questioning how much (if any) was real.
Phonogram is autobiographical.
The clubs and music are the clubs and music that he experienced at the time the books are set. You think he's trying to earn cool points mentioning Kenickie?
Most of you just type words, now.
I started reading Ware, Burns, and Clowes because I loved comic strips, before capes, and before coming here.
But yeah, my luck missing any threads. I just think the whole image/dark horse vs. Marvel or DC vs. independent, dare I say Literary stuff like theirs is a cool conversation to have, like there's something unique to each.
Tieri is my definition of offensively mediocre
Garbage tier (that continue to get work or did until recently) writers are: Jurgens, Bunn (when not on villains and hes only decent on them), Vendetti, Daniel, Finches and of course Rob the slob Liefeld
Then there's punished tier which has Waid and Milligan
I dunno the only stabled big two writers I'd even consider good right now are King and Orlando and that's because they haven't fucked up yet
>Is any of his recent stuff decent?
He's in the punished tier for a reason anon. He fell off harder than any other writer I've ever seen. Wrote some absolutely miserable Hellblazer, shat up the title so bad he killed it, fell off so that by the New 52 he was writing low level team books and absolutely shitting the bed on them. He had great opportunities with Stormwatch and JL Dark at new 52 but he is shit now anon, no two ways about it. At least his mainstream stuff is shit.
1 AM central time b.
Didn't want to sound demeaning talking about superheroes like that, I started this thread cuz I was reading AVX again. I love em. Just had the thought about Clowes a while back and thought I'd ask while I was here. I'll make a thread another time, hope to see you there pal.
He wrote a run on Stormwatch that was really not good except I think he was trolling Midnighter/Apollo fans as hard as possible with it, which made it kind of interestingly weird, if not good comics.
Aww, that's sad to hear
Here's to hoping he'll redeem himself sometime soon
As someone who likes Phonogram and WicDiv (although less and less as it continues to progress), I really feel like reading his blog has soured me to it quite a bit. He really is a preening tryhard fop who can't stop posturing as a sensitive intellectual artist with his finger on the world's pulse for even a moment. When you become familiar with the tone of his personality and its overbearing aspects you can't stop seeing it bleed through the cracks of his work, particularly the independent stuff.
I like his shit a lot
For a while i thought Remender and Hickman would save the MU but it was Gillen who kept me interested. Yeah he is a megahipster but at this point he is one of the few good writers left with marvel.
See I've only read a bit of his gaming criticism but I feel like the general tone and feeling of that spilled over into Phonogram, just with music instead of gaming. Does it come down to your personal interest of video games over music or is one very different than the other?
I haven't read Phonogram so I couldn't say, but I definitely am more interested in video games than music, I can tell you that much
Honestly the premises of his creator-owned stuff like Phonogram / Wicked & the Divine etc just don't really interest me
Ahh man so I've heard, I know I really need to check it out. But from the little bit I've seen, even when he's not being his bald headed hipster self indulgent persona, the guy knows how to craft a story. And that seems to have held true through his marvel work and his creator owned stuff.
Very fair. WicDiv is catered to the very specific fanbase of where pop music and comics overlap and Phonogram is really tough to just start into. If you're up for a challenge and interested in some new music, The Singles Club is still a fun read even past it's obscure references.
I guess im too used to seeing people shit on that series.
I'm assuming you mean AvX - I wasn't too bothered either way on it, but it has some cool moments and Cyclops' characterisation afterwards is great (when not written by Bendis, obviously)
You know I do get that impression from his tweets and some posts that I've seen of his from years ago but he seemed all right in person.
His output varies to me. Phonogram and Uber and Journey into Mystery I liked. I don't think I'd read his Iron Man or Young Avengers again though.
Friendly reminder that Gillen lost a bet to some marvel editor and as punishment had to either have sex with a 9/10 women or write Generation Hope and chose the later.
And even while being lumped with the worst Mary Sue in comic book history as penance, managed to make her half decent.
Gillen a hero.
If you imagine it as a big 24 episode season
And you put all the good tie ins in with the main series
Then it's okay
Like episode 1 is the four issues before the first fight (avx 1, watx, na, uxm) and contains no action except hope being trained
And episode 5 could be the whole secret avengers arc, but without any of the horrible Bendis followup
And episode 12 is that tie in exclusive fight between the younger x-men and Bendis's avengers
And then maybe episode 14 is the Phoenix 5 fighting sinister
The pacing would probably be shit though, I'd have to think about it
Gillen's and Hickman's parts take it up from shit to almost good, so there's that
Love Kieron Gillen. Loved Young Avengers, loved Journey Into Mystery, loving WicDiv. Adored Siege too.
Don't get Phonogram, but I'm getting there. Great work ethic and creates some great characters.
That's fair. I feel that way about Fear Itself, reading it as an Iron Man story with his tie-ins embedded. Gillen's tie-ins are almost always better than the actual event.
>Journey Into Mystery
Only when it came to the prehistory story. There are about three possible outcomes, discounting the obviously fabricated bits (i.e. how much it starts dovetailing the main story).
None of it was real, the professor was simply quack whose obsession remained even after he became Crossed.
The Blood Men may have existed, but the rest didn't.
It was all real, and the professor was one of those special Crossed, like Patient Zero, who had visions of the past, transcribing everything he saw as best he could (the "monster Gods" manifesting was probably just the volcano erupting and the Blood Men's mutilated slaves and animals running amok, for example.