Red Hood/Arsenal #9 Preview

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>>79728450
Fernandez is such a great artist

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>>79728499
I still hate that helmet though

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>>79728528
Eat your heat out Cassandra

>>79728557
Christ, Lobdell's self-inserting hard here. No wonder Red Hood fans are whiny whenever he's not written like a special snowflake

Art took a nosedive from mediocre to terrible. Dialogue feels like it's ripped by a direct-to-VHS 90s movie

Never understood why people on CBR and ComicVine jerk off to this book so much

>>79729202
This art is way better than the other guy's

>>79729975
It looks like it's from a 90s X-Men comic. Looks like someone scanned this, actually. The coloring is so washed out. The action looks really static, too. Like the characters are just posing. There's no sense of depth or motion. The needless caption boxes don't help, either.

>>79730316
Granted, it is just a book designed to milk a few bucks based purely on its title. DC's not going to put actual talent on it. But that's the problem with DC right now. Too many Red Hood/Arsenals that are written off an assembly line. Not enough books that are readable, much less worth reading.

Rebirth isn't going to do anything unless DC gets some talent on their wide lineup of books, instead of throwing their hatchet men on their pet characters. Or at least take a chance on some new writers. For every Ben Percy and Jeff King, there's also a Tom King or a Steve Orlando. When you give something to a Scott Lobdell, you end up with Lobdell-quality work.

>>79728557
>rip off a scene written for a mute character
>add narration boxes for the readers who are too stupid to understand the scene

classic Lobdell

>>79728557

Wow. No wonder Jason-fans were spazzing over him jobbing to Cassandra. Lobdell has literally made him "the best" Robin.

>>79734106
>>79732291
The problem is that Lobdell made him some sort of magical messiah in Outlaws and no other writer acknowledges it because it was retarded.

>>79734222
Pretty sure Tynion acknowledged it pretty hard when it wrote on the title

>>79734106
>>79734222

It's okay, Jason has rightly gotten his ass kicked everywhere else

>beaten up by Damian, and had his helmet stolen
>"Under the Red Hood" story is changed to where Dick takes him down and chases him out of Gotham, he then spends most of RHATO bitter that he'll never be as good as Dick
>Barbara gets possessed and beats the shit out of him even though he tries to shoot her
>during Night of the Owls, he's the only Batfamily member to lose against a Talon, he gets saved by Roy, and the Talon basically begs Jason to kill him
>needs to be saved by Batman every three issues in Eternal
>think he gets captured by a bunch of children in Eternal, as well
>gets gloriously curbstomped by Damian in Robin War
>pulls a gun on Cassandra and then proceeds to get pummeled, he kinda manages to scratch her, but Dick puts him in his place, and it's revealed that Cass was only trying to protect him, he essentially jobs to Cass, Dick, and a wooden table in the same scene
>gets one-shotted by Bane without Venom
>gets beaten up by St Dumas, I think

>>79734587
>Tynion
>no other writer acknowledges it because it was retarded

ok so there's one writer who is on lobdell's level of retardation

>>79734915
>"Under the Red Hood" story is changed to where Dick takes him down and chases him out of Gotham

What?

>>79729160
>self-inserting hard here

...what? I know /co/ loves hating Lobdell and Jason but come on

>>79732291
>rip off a scene written for a mute character

Cassandra reads body language, she did not invent nor own any exclusive rights to finding weak spots on enemies and exploiting them. And the use of narration boxes here is entirely okay.

>>79734915
Some of his defeats are equally retarded considering the gear he's acquired yet doesn't use or simply doesn't do shit at the writer's whim, Damian slamming his superstrong helmet into dirt for example and apparently not bothering to shoot any of the Talons or anything during Robin War I think.
Should just keep Jason out of Gotham if they don't like him, not entirely sure why he gets dragged into Bat-family stuff so much.

>>79735356
Jobbing is jobbing, anon. And he's part of the batfamily, he needs to be included in crossovers.

>>79735356
He's the robin that died but came back so he has no choice, he's special.

>>79735356
>, not entirely sure why he gets dragged into Bat-family stuff so much.

It's be established why, to have him Job, cause god knows you cant have dick do or Barbra do it and no one gives a shit about Tim.

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He should use these blades more, or those spirit swords.

>>79735699
Guns and knives.

The issue was fan-fucking-tastic. Everyone got to show off their skills, a new part of Roy's past was revealed and JD finally has started to earn that redemption. The best part? She finally ditched Joker's face!!!!

>>79735699
Those blades dont really work with that suit and Lobdell has ditched the swords since Tynion did his bullshit with them

>>79735699
I agree, i like the All caste stuff, it gives him some thing to do. If Dick can be a spy no reason Jason can't be a monk.

>>79735278

>And the use of narration boxes here is entirely okay.

No, it isn't.

>>79735737

>The issue was fan-fucking-tastic.

Is this for real? Please thell me i'm being baited.

>>79728450
>>79735699
Why do artists insist drawing expressions on a fucking helmet?

>>79735737
You better not be lying about the mask ditching.

>>79728499

Is he falling? If he's falling while shooting how the fuck does he have time to say all that shit? Shouldn't he say something short and prepare himself for the fall?

>>79728528

Who's the narration box meant to? It seems that he's narrating this later to someone, but he's breaking the narration during mid-action to account for the woman's speed. Is he reporting back to someone through a com-link? This doesn't make any sense.
Wait, wasn't he falling? I didn't he fall, then? Or was he just jumping back a bit? Nothing makes sense.
Here it goes again. The bitch is going super-fast to dodge his bullets and attack him close-range but she still has time to mumble a bunch of words.

>>79728557

This is the only page where i don't immediately see any problem.

>>79735928

Wait, i see it now.

>>79728557

The old woman:

>Makes no never mind to me.

What the fuck does that mean? This is pure gibberish.

>>79735969
I assume it should be makes no difference. How it got past editors... well maybe they don't care anyways.

Can we start a petition to sack lodbell and tynion for being a trash writers?

>>79736136
Nah. They should go to books of characters I hate.
Like John Stewart.

>>79736009
It's an old way of saying the "it makes no difference to me" My grandpa used to say it like that

>>79736153

Wouldn't be better if they were just fired?

>>79735847
Same reason any mask has expressions.

>>79736240

>Makes no never mind to me.

Is an old saying, huh? Really?

>>79736261
yeah.

>>79736268

I just Googled. It's an old South Carolina colloquialism. Nevermind = difference.

Why would an old Asian lady speak like that, though?

>>79736246
Nah. Some fanbases deserve to suffer.

>>79735847
Why not?

>>79736310
Even among other languages there are odd accents and such, I guess that's their way of showing it? Or it just slipped by as a mistake, not exactly an important line though so not sure I care too much.

>>79736356
Basically this

>>79738950
For storytime.

>>79735737
>earn redemption
Redemption for what?

>>79738989

For being a lunatic bat-villain, dummy.

>>79735737
>Joker's daughter
Ugh.

>>79739034
But she hasn't really done anything. She has been a very ineffectual lunatic bat-villain.

>>79728499
>>79728528
>>79728557
Aside from that mouth on Red Hood's helmet that 99% of artists like to draw, this art is really damn good. Shame it's being wasted on this turd of a comic.

>>79735802
It's Tzitzimine

>>79735356
Nope, sorry Jasonfag. Damian beat Jason's ass because Jason sucks. Good writers override Lobdell's fan fiction. Batfamily rankings go Cass > Dick > Damian > Barbara > Jason > Tim > Harper > Steph

>>79735278
No, it's not. It acts like the reader is too stupid to understand what's going on in the art.

Actually, given how Lobdell fans are, it's probably a fair assessment

>>79735738
It needs to be written as not shit for it to work. Dick's spy stuff is an ongoing narrative that's slowly being fleshed out, and leading towards a conclusion. Jason's All-Caste stuff has about as much merit as Mortal Kombat character's background blurb. It's only there so Jasonfags can whine on forums about "Jason's the most specialest fighter ever!"

>>79736314
Jasonfags deserve Lobdell then

Though part of me would love to see the John Stewart fanbase rally around Lobdell

>>79728499
I hate when artist draw the helmet like that. It looks ugly and makes absolutely no sense.

Jesus, why can't they make him competent without the Magical Girl Warrior Ninja shit? They managed that in the Arkham comics, but somehow fail to do that in his main series.

>>79740865
Arkham comics were written by Peter Tomasi, a very competent writer

Red Hood comics are written by Scott Lobdell, an incompetent writer

Competent writers are usually much better at writing than incompetent writers

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>>79740865
Nah, in the Arkham series Jason is a whiny asshole who can't really back up his bragging. Plus, he's Joker's little bitch.

Anyways, STORYTIME!

>>79728557

>>79739117
She's murdered and disfigured plenty of people with little remorse. She's got shit to redeem.

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>>79740996

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>>79741022

>>79740573
That's comic readers in general, broheim

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>>79740616
Doesn't even have to be the 'most specialist fighter ever' he's simply a wasted character, tried to be Batman without the no-killing limitation but seems more like comic relief for no particular reason, his partnership with Roy has basically made him Deadpool but with less killing I think.
As for spy stuff, doesn't Dick kill all sorts of people as one, or at least brutally tortures and shoots them and shit, and Jason is criticized instead? There's some strange see nothing hear nothing say nothing going on with how that shit plays out.

Random thought while I'm at it though I'm unsure if it's particularly accurate, Dick is supposed to be 5'10, Jason 6' yet Dick is drawn taller I think whenever they're together, even with his helmet on like this. And apparently 50 lbs heavier, which I would imagine is not because of much fat, though perhaps one could say it's his gear.

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>>79741031

>>79740994
>a very competent writer
Ha ha ha ha ha

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>>79741047
This sequence is great

>>79740616
>It's only there so Jasonfags can whine on forums about "Jason's the most specialest fighter ever!"

And here I thought it was for Jason haters to have something to bitch about

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>>79741070

>>79741086
It can be two things, Lobdell satisfies everyone by making them equally unhappy.

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>>79741087
Jason and Roy standing together is my favorite panel of the issue

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>>79741117

>>79740996
I liked the Arkham series and Arkham Knight Genesis is a better Jason origina story than the Nu52 one by far.
But most of all I really liked that they made Jason a military tactician. It would've been great if they went that way in the main continuity, it would be a better way to distinguish him from the other Robins, instead of "the angry one", "the smart one", "the nice one" they're using now. Jason should be the military tactician, Dick - the spy, and Tim - the detective.

>>79741117
A gun-arrow? Looks like it's a tiny crossbow.

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>>79741135

>>79741152
Yeah, shame that in the game Jason is proven again AND again to be an incredibly shitty commander.

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>>79741174
Best moment of the issue

>>79736337
Because it looks creepy and weird.

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>>79741191

>>79741087
Lobdell is a hack.

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>>79741210
Amazing twist

>>79739138
I don't get the hate for the mouth. It looks ridiculously goofy and I love it, just like Roy's trucker hat.

>>79741232
>the biggest mistake of my life
he says that about everything

>>79741046
>As for spy stuff, doesn't Dick kill all sorts of people as one, or at least brutally tortures and shoots them and shit, and Jason is criticized instead?

Not really, or at least not in his own book. Other writers in the Superman editorial who don't know what's going on in Grayson have him shooting off his gun a lot more, but in Grayson, he specifically avoids using his gun to kill humans

The butthurt is strong here.

Whether we like it or not, Lobdell is Jason's main writer and if he writes him as the 'most specialist fighter ever' then he is. And bat writers are the one who are incompetent for not doing their research and keeping up with his fighting style.

>>79741290
Nice try, Scott.

>>79741290
Why should other wroter be burdened to back-up lobdell shitty writing?

>>79741232
The "twist" seems pulled out of nowhere though.
Like they suddenly ran out of ideas to end the issue.

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>>79741046
The males of the Bat-family tend to be portrayed as Russian dolls with age meaning your bigger.

I'm hoping with the reboot coming and him having been a big part in Knight and probably being in the movies that they finally do something worthwhile . (I hope, after nearly 5 years of a book that's mediocre at best I'm used to disappointment.)

>>79741232
oh look another shitty retcon to roy's backstory

I'm betting that Lobdell didn't even think of this "twist" until he actually got to the last page, given the lack of hints or indication in previous scenes.

>>79741284
Shows what you know, in detective comics he was torturing a guy CIA style for information.

>>79741338
Pretty much. It means that Roy's previous interactions with the group makes no fucking sense

>>79741338
That's exactly what happened

>>79741338
No, it makes sense for anyone who has bothered to follow the series since the beginning. RHATO started with Roy being imprisoned in Kandhaq after one of his merc's operations went south. Since we don't know a lot of Roy's past, the Iron Rule fits perfectly in the gaps.

Meanwhile, in Eternal, Jason jobs out to a bunch of teenage girls, and somehow it's still much better than what we got here

>>79741338
It's true. If Lobdell had intended to incorporate this early on, he would have narrated endlessly about it

>>79741378
shhhhh, let people vent out their monthly "Scott Lobdell molested my brain with his writing" anger. It lessens the bitching quota enormously.

>>79741391
Are you not familiar with the term jobbing?

>>79741290
christ, lobdellfags are bad at taking criticism. sorry not every fellates lobdell like you do, and are willing to call out his screwups. you're almost as bad as tumblr with batgirl

>>79741401
"waaaaahhh people are criticizing my favorite writer for shitty writing!"

>>79741391
But he was just fighting with them until a wild Harper appeared and the scene changed

>>79741323
Because he is Jason's main writer? And if they have to write Jason, then they have to be "burdened to back-up lobdell shitty writing".

>>79741378
I see your point, but they could do better the delivery of how they brought back "Iron Rule" to start another conflict in the story.

And i think it's safe to assume that 90% of people who read the last issue thought that they were just mutated green glowing thugs.

>>79741290
Why would a good writer follow a shitty storyline? If anything, they're morally obligated to make it better

>>79741438
If a writer wants to write a good story, they should not be forced to creatively hamstring themselves for someone's fanfiction. Comics should be stories, not Jason Todd hugboxes

>>79741438
He didn't create the character, fuckface.

>>79741364
>in detective comics
>at least not in his own book
learn comprehension

>>79741391
Interesting. You seem to have read a different version than I did because I didn't see Jason being "jobbing out".

>>79741350
Still seems stupid. Another random point Starfire is fucking 6'4 and she's drawn shorter or just as tall as the fucking manlet.

>>79741469
But he has been the main writer for his solo adventures in two ongoing series, defining his character in the new 52 continuity for the past four years, give or take.

>>79741443
>last issue thought that they were just mutated green glowing thugs

That is why the twist is effective, because it adds a new layer to the Iron Rule as group and sheds some light on Roy's past.

Of course, the issue at hand now is how much of a follow up can Lobdell give to the storyline in just three issues more before Rebirth happens.

>>79741501
Lobdell's hack writing should be quarantined.

>>79741350
they should make him gay or something to win points with the SJW crowd.

>>79741282
He IS in a Lobdell book. That's a pretty big life mistake in itself

>>79741501
He also ruined Tim. Doesn't mean other writers can't try to revive the character.

>>79741480
Detective comics is edited by the same people as Grayson, idiot.

>>79741539
Tim has been ruined since Identity Crisis.

>>79741521
>Jason Todd is an angry teenage black man struggling with his sexuality who just wants his adoptive father to love him.

There is a weirdly high chance of this happening.

>>79741617
And Joker killed him because of homophobia/racism.

>>79741572
Red Robin series wasn't that bad, outside of Timfags going "OMG RA'S CALLED HIM DETECTIVE"

>>79742075
And he got away with it because he's white.

>>79741617
How about no.

>>79742128
still better than what lobdell's doing with jason

lol people on CBR are butthurt that we're bashing this criticizing this

>>79742163
Nah

>>79741521
>a Robin
>being gay

Winick wanted to make Jason bisexual but editorial/DC axed it.

>>79741022
Only Scott Lobdell would base his story on a plot point from Nocenti's Catwoman

>>79743024
this is true, only a veteran like Lobdell remembers when using continuity mattered

>>79743205
>only continuity that matters is shitty continuity

>>79743205
too bad he can't keep up with the continuity of stories actually worth reading

>>79743546
Yeah, it's fantastic that he keeps ignoring most of the stuff the Batman office does with Jason

Tzitzimine is literally standing up for Nocenti

Amazing

>>79744967
Who cares

>>79743305
anon, all continuity is shitty by design. All Lobdell is doing is take what came before and tells a better story with it. Joker's daughter's "origin" brought up as a way to start her redemption arc is entirely sou d and valid storytelling choice. Just because you dislike the original story referenced here does not make this one bad.

>>79745267
well, it's the bad writing here that makes this issue bad, though

>>79745258
Anon, he pulled the Tzitzimine card. It's game over, abandon thread.

>>79745285
Nah, the writing is solid all around. The only weak link of this issue is the coloring.

>>79745289
You're right, how silly of me to not obsess over what some random cbr user thinks.

>>79745430
The dialogue is really flat, and tries to hard to be "funny" when the moment doesn't call for it. And Lobdell's habit of having to explain his own jokes gets old. Other times, the dialogue just fulfills the same purpose as the thought boxes: bland exposition that doesn't add to the tone of the story, or the characters' personalities. Most of the narration boxes are actually unnecessary, and the panels would flow much better without them, as all they do is tell the audiences things that they should already know.

>>79745519
Maybe I'm just that old but I like Lobdell's narration

>>79744846
Why should he? Jason belong to superman office right now, not batman office.

>>79745636
Even the superman office is more or less ignoring what happens in RHATO. See: Starfire

>>79745519
Thing is, the narration boxes are there to flesh out the personality of the character in turn not to tell the events of the scene.

>>79745684
Not a valid comparison since Starfire is Palmiotti and Conner and they pretty much have carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they want.

>>79745828
>Thing is, the narration boxes are there to flesh out the personality of the character in turn not to tell the events of the scene.
When done correctly, yes. But the narration boxes here add very little to the characters' personalities. They're just there as a writer's crutch.

I like those new villains they have cool designs

>>79745875
Not really, there is a noticeable change in the way both Jason and Roy express themselves about JD here to the way they did it two issues ago.

>>79741378

It doesn't. In RHatO Jason narrates that Roy went to help liberate Kandhaq alone and that after he had done it the people turned against him.

Can i ask a question? To whom the characters are narrating the events?

They aren't telling what's happening to someone later, because sometimes they'll stop the narration to account for things that are happening around them.
They aren't talking with someone through a com-link, because i didn't see any response.
They aren't thinking to themselves, because they''re clearly trying to explain what's happening to someone.

To whom are they narrating the events of the issue?

>>79747767
the readers of the book

>>79747840

Really? But that's... well, that's stupid.

>>79747897
yeah, that's the same conclusion most readers of the book came to

>>79747767
They're simply reacting to the story as it develops.

>>79748105

How? They're narrating and explaining things to someone in real time. I want to know who that is. Is it Batman?

>>79748192
They have to explain things to themselves to understand what's happening because.... reasons

>>79748231

So Jason and Arsenal are like my dumb sister who needs to have things explained to her twice and take a good while to digest it?

>>79748306
pretty much

>>79748306
don't talk bad about your sister like that, be nice

>>79748370

She's nice and all, but she's fucking dumb. It's ok, she knows.

>>79741521
But that's what Tim is for.
>>79747897
Actual books have used narrators addressing the reader, sometimes directly, for centuries.

>>79747897
Thats how Comic book narrations have always been

Oh right /co/ Doesn't read comics

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>>79735737
Oh hey Tzitzimine

>>79748558
>>79749505

Unh, no? The characters are either thinking to themselves, talking to someone at later point in time, writing a letter at later point on time, and so on. There's always an excuse for comic narration box.

>>79749795
Not no go read an older comic book, its always to the readers even if its disguised as "Thinking to themselves

>>79749907

No, the thought balloons, while pretty expository, where always the characters owns thoughts processing what happened around them. Sometimes you would have a narrator, but that would be a faceless voice and not the characters breaking the fourth-wall.

>>79749732
Just how many sites does he shill on?

>>79750019
reddit, here, CBR, comicvine, probably tumblr, probably Batman News, etc

>>79749795
(You)