Like, do people think the voice actors are the reason the thing moves fluidly/not so fluidly? What exactly are you asking for, credit wise? They don't pioneer anything, develop new technologies or help develop nations. Credit for what, exactly? Making some bitchin' silly faces look fantastic in motion? They already get that.
>and respect Respect is VERY subjective, and in this case unearned. You can understand that someone can do something way better than you could, but still think it's an otherwise unnecessary and unimpressive field.
I mean, even CGI artists can create life-sized and to the minutia detailed replications of bodies and allow neurosurgeons to test out new theories without endangering real live people, but that doesn't mean that the animator for Minions deserves respect. You can admit something is done better than you could do without thinking it worthwhile.
I fucking wish I got paid to do nothing but draw all day. I gotta do my ged classes even though I already finished high school in my home country. low end temp jobs that'll take under qualified people like me are horrible, warehouse and factory work is backbreaking. I can only hope it'll get easier once I have a degree and can get a part time job to go to college, and hopefully study something that wont leave me jobless like fine arts.
I just want to go to an animation school, man, I just wanted to make cartoons for a living. I'm making independant cartoons and comics and god, what I'd fucking give to get a full time job doing that, even if it was for kids.
I get wanting to not be replaced by koreans but fuck, there are so many thankless hard jobs out there that make the world turn as it is, at least be self aware enough to realize the irrelevancy of your niche in the moderately bigger picture.
>>79727774 >nichijou and adventure time came out in the same year >a show about literally fucking nothing has more animation in it than a boy and his dog going on adventures
I know a lot of people tote the flapmouth thing, but honestly, modern cartoons are pretty much worse. Seriously, watch any cn cartoon with muted audio, they almost always do nothing but flap mouths and occasionally change poses. At least anime makes up for it by being illustrative, cartoons are too minimalist in design to have an excuse.
>>79728034 yes. Yes it does. Seriously, do it, you'd be surprised. I think some anime actually ends up being MORE animated than cartoons. Seriously, go watch a modern adventure time episode muted and nichijou muted.
You'll be fucking flabberghasted at how without the voices AT is kind of dreadful to look at.
I haven't watched AT in a while, so maybe you're right with that. But I do watch at least a little of most modern cartoons, and it's better than what I see in anime. Anime is prettier, but there's no way the average is anime is more fluid than the average western cartoon.
>>79729505 >he thinks Steven Universe is better than that Not much different from this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNNYSGe_3d4
>>79729743 I have and it's not that different from Canadian trash like Jimmy Two-Shoes.
>>79727774 > even shitty low budget western cartoons are more fluid than anime. That's a nice joke mate. Even the anime that influenced SU has better animation than it and it was produced for dirt cheap https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urbSkBeECjg The west simply can't draw worth a crap since the Golden Age stopped.
>>79730001 >I have and it's not that different from Canadian trash like Jimmy Two-Shoes. This is one of the wrongest things I've ever heard. The show has more individual drawings per episode than pretty much any other we've had in years.
Animation degree here, animating is really fun but its fucking hard finding a job that pays well. I only do traditional 2D stuff, but everyone only likes flash/tween bullshit now. I use Toon Boom but Flash seems to still be the fucking norm in the industry.
Yeah I went to college for animation, I did it because I needed to learn the discipline, its hard to get shit started on your own when you have no experience.
>>79731562 It is the most stressful fucking shit if you are not one of the A listers in your class, and depending on your professors they may or may not be nice enough to hook you with up a connection post graduation or play favorites with you.
My senior film was pretty successful and well liked but the faculty was awful and didn't really help anyone, and if they did they kept it secretive. At the day of our show I found out last minute there was a cash prize for best film presented, and it was only found out when the winner was chosen. It was some low ball shit and made the whole thing feel like a contest after that.
My advice; don't let her go to college unless she feels she can really handle it, and if she can, tell her to find internships and obsess over finding a job before graduation.
Youre going to be waist high in debt, so once you get the degree you need to fucking go all out or deal with working shitty day jobs until the debt is paid off.
>>79728203 Nichijou is pretty much the best quality of animation Japan has to offer, you can't put it up with adventure time. I think his point was that if you take the best the US has to offer, it's shits on anime
>>79731917 >Nichijou is pretty much the best quality of animation Japan has to offer, you can't put it up with adventure time. 1. No it's not the best japan has to offer 2. They're both tv cartoons so it's fair game
>Iron Giant >best US has to offer Get some god damn taste and don't post a CG rig next time
>>79732080 Care to share you work? I've always liked animation but live in the middle of nowhere on the east coast, and it seems like an occupation that doesn't even exist here. All I envision being work around here is manual labor or minimum wage restaurant jobs. This coming from someone currently doing a manual labor job who wants one where I sit on my ass and get paid well enough.
>>79732206 I have the book, but even when I did I couldn't force myself to get started on anything. Plus I didn't have the software or tools for animating at the time. Before I just drew a lot and did a little spriting/pixel art, I animated some small things but I didn't start making films until I was forced to for my thesis projects.
I only went to two animation schools, I learned more from my associates degree classes than my bachelors, ironically.
>>79727458 >anime is stiff as fuck. workers that get paid like shit produce shit https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/10753/ https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/17289/ https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/14715/ https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/8714/ https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/16157/ https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/17747/
>>79727774 >even shitty low budget western cartoons are more fluid than anime This is possible. However, what does it matter if something is "fluid"? You can make stick figures walking left and right on a flat plane look "fluid," but that doesn't mean it's good animation.
>>79738202 TV anime production has limited time, money and personnel. It is simply impossible to maintain animation like https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/8714/ all the time, even for a top-tier studio like Kyoto Animation. It's not that they can't do it, it's that there is no time. Six episodes of animation already hits the upper limit of running time for animated movies (120 minutes), which usually aren't even that long. And yet there is less production time than in a movie, and you still have 6 - 18 episodes left to go.
This idea that there's a few seconds or minutes of great animation surrounded by still images and mouth flaps is, again, a myth. Maybe you can find episodes where production was really messed up and something like that ended up happening, but there's nothing normal about that.
And when all is said and done, anime still looks radically better than American shows. It's possible that American shows have more frames of animation, but that doesn't mean they're good frames of animation or that simply having animation means anything.
>>79721375 >Make a cartoon More like ask the koreans to make a cartoon for them. Have you seen the schlock they send overseas? The animation studio has to do most of the work for them, all they get from hacks like Sugar and Penn is stick figures of the characters with the dialog written below. Anything good that comes out of their animation is a complete accident.
>>79721289 Yes it will. >>79721316 Show like Tiny Toons, Batman & Animaniacs have world regard animators. >>79721665 Yes, they do. >>79730001 Conan was more then the $69,000 that most anime cost at the time. >>79731352 Produced, the only thing Disney produced in the States was GF & 7D. >>79731917 No, this is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-ji8Oo5q3o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccC6LcqwS5Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR4bKHlhmjk
>>79738435 >No, this is. Something isn't the best quality just because it was made for a Western production.
Why does that image stress "fun" so much? It doesn't have anything to do with animation quality.
If Americans want to bring back animation to America they would do well to investigate anime production and animation, and consider whether voice actors should be paid hundreds of thousands of dollars per episode.
>>79738365 So what? Everything has a budget and limited time. If the Japanese think it's good to put all the budget and slave work in 10 seconds of animation I still have to watch the rest of the episode; mouth flapping and lazy static shots are everywhere, even in bigger anime productions. Nobody IRL talks like that, and I don't give a shit if for 10 seconds they're exploding mountains in full details afterwards.
Your average Western show has better direction, expression and actual animation (as in giving LIFE to things) than most anime you can name.
> Inb4 reply with a webm of Paprika or another of the select 5 Japanese movies that do it right.
>Yes it does, stiff animation is bad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVr0tmlnRyI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvx7p6-lABw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR1cMPnMcaY http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x28l37_you-re-under-arrest-op_fun
>Simpsons already does that, it's the animation budget that needs to be larger. I bet the budget is much larger than it is in anime. Episodes spend 9 months in production. There are 12 episode anime shows produced from start to finish in that time (not including pre-production time).
Production limitations are one of the pillars of anime and what made it the way it is, and in general Japanese entertainment has much smaller budgets than American entertaninment (America also has twice the population). The Wind Rises cost $30 million to make, whereas Frozen was $150 million.
>>79738800 >So what? Everything has a budget and limited time Anime has smaller budgets and less time, and still looks better.
>mouth flapping and lazy static shots are everywhere, even in bigger anime productions Westerners have this fetishistic obsession with mouths for some reason, like they get erections if they see well-articulated mouth movement and moving jaws. It's really bizarre. Or maybe it's just a convinient yet arbitrary and misguided way of attempting to assert superiority over anime?
Static shots are used even in high end anime movies, but it's not necessarily because of production limitations. It's part of the style of anime. Anime uses a cinematic style, not a cartoon style like American animation does.
Here is a scene from a live action movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0VJa3HmsJQ
Notice the lack of actor movement, a prolonged absence of the actor, and the use of panning shots. This sort of thing is considered fine in live action, yet for some reason animation isn't allowed to do it?
>Your average Western show has better direction, expression and actual animation (as in giving LIFE to things) than most anime you can name. Western shows have very primitive production values and direction compared to anime. They are not rooted in the idea of cinematism, and the sole thing anyone cares about is how "smoothly" the characters move.
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