People who do animation for a living deserve more credit and respect.

>>79721240
This is true.
But it'll never happen.

Not if they animate shit like Adventure Time and Steven Universe.
Then they deserve a switch kick in their non-binary otherkin genitals.

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>>79721316

>if you make a cartoon i don't like then you don't deserve any respect

>>79721240
No kidding, animation is a fucking chore, I'm currently studying it a learning how to do it and it is both fun and causes headaches.

The only animators who don't deserve respect are the ones who do stuff like Johnny Test

>>79721407
and I'm not calling Johnny Test a bad show, (but it is atrocious, I'm not gonna lie) I'm calling it's animation awful

But anon Koreans don't have feelings.

>>79721665

WoY is actually animated by Canadians who also don't have feelings

>>79721828
I thought it was animated in Ireland now?

>>79721316
>you make a cartoon that people who have a different political opinion than I do are big fans of, then you don't deserve respect

>>79721240
Oh yeah, where we be without cartoons?
These people really do the important jobs!

>>79721240
Loved this joke, especially considering the animation table piece he pulled out.

I didn't see a gag like that since the'90s

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mfw this joke is overdone and old now

We get it. The irony is people ANIMATED hater saying this and that its a hard job.

>>79721240
this desu

>>79722584
You could say the same thing about film in general

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If we got even a little bit more of either the studios would just start outsourcing again. Do you know how fucking little animators get paid everywhere else?

>>79721828
>>79721876
The storyboards are detailed enough that saying the animation was done in the States is just as valid.

>>79727347

anime is stiff as fuck. workers that get paid like shit produce shit

>>79727458
But when you can have 5 times as many people and it's acceptable to produce at half the framerate as America you can get away with it.

>>79721240
...Credit for what?

Like, do people think the voice actors are the reason the thing moves fluidly/not so fluidly? What exactly are you asking for, credit wise? They don't pioneer anything, develop new technologies or help develop nations. Credit for what, exactly? Making some bitchin' silly faces look fantastic in motion? They already get that.

>and respect
Respect is VERY subjective, and in this case unearned. You can understand that someone can do something way better than you could, but still think it's an otherwise unnecessary and unimpressive field.

I mean, even CGI artists can create life-sized and to the minutia detailed replications of bodies and allow neurosurgeons to test out new theories without endangering real live people, but that doesn't mean that the animator for Minions deserves respect. You can admit something is done better than you could do without thinking it worthwhile.

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I fucking wish I got paid to do nothing but draw all day.
I gotta do my ged classes even though I already finished high school in my home country. low end temp jobs that'll take under qualified people like me are horrible, warehouse and factory work is backbreaking. I can only hope it'll get easier once I have a degree and can get a part time job to go to college, and hopefully study something that wont leave me jobless like fine arts.

I just want to go to an animation school, man, I just wanted to make cartoons for a living. I'm making independant cartoons and comics and god, what I'd fucking give to get a full time job doing that, even if it was for kids.

I get wanting to not be replaced by koreans but fuck, there are so many thankless hard jobs out there that make the world turn as it is, at least be self aware enough to realize the irrelevancy of your niche in the moderately bigger picture.

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>>79727458
>stiff as fuck
>probably likes Steven Universe

>>79721240

maybe when they stop tweening fags

>>79727730

>anime isn't stiff

weeb detected. even shitty low budget western cartoons are more fluid than anime.

>>79727774
>nichijou and adventure time came out in the same year
>a show about literally fucking nothing has more animation in it than a boy and his dog going on adventures

I know a lot of people tote the flapmouth thing, but honestly, modern cartoons are pretty much worse. Seriously, watch any cn cartoon with muted audio, they almost always do nothing but flap mouths and occasionally change poses. At least anime makes up for it by being illustrative, cartoons are too minimalist in design to have an excuse.

>>79727919

>watch any cn cartoon with muted audio, they almost always do nothing but flap mouths and occasionally change poses.

Not to the extent that anime does it.

good joke

>>79728034
yes.
Yes it does.
Seriously, do it, you'd be surprised. I think some anime actually ends up being MORE animated than cartoons. Seriously, go watch a modern adventure time episode muted and nichijou muted.

You'll be fucking flabberghasted at how without the voices AT is kind of dreadful to look at.

>>79728203

I haven't watched AT in a while, so maybe you're right with that. But I do watch at least a little of most modern cartoons, and it's better than what I see in anime. Anime is prettier, but there's no way the average is anime is more fluid than the average western cartoon.

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>>79727730

>>79721240
Tweening and storyboarding is not hard work. Western animators literally have some of the easiest jobs in the country.

>>79729703
Have you actually watched Wander Over Yonder, anon?

>>79729743
He don't even watch cartoons. Man, that's scary.

>>79729845
who are you motherfucker?

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>>79729505
>he thinks Steven Universe is better than that
Not much different from this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNNYSGe_3d4

>>79729743
I have and it's not that different from Canadian trash like Jimmy Two-Shoes.

>>79727774
> even shitty low budget western cartoons are more fluid than anime.
That's a nice joke mate. Even the anime that influenced SU has better animation than it and it was produced for dirt cheap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urbSkBeECjg
The west simply can't draw worth a crap since the Golden Age stopped.

>>79730001
>I have and it's not that different from Canadian trash like Jimmy Two-Shoes.
This is one of the wrongest things I've ever heard. The show has more individual drawings per episode than pretty much any other we've had in years.

>>79730001
you're really desperate at being the le epic trollzman. no one's taking you seriously

>>79722584
Art is very important anon! Remember what happened the last time an artist got pissed of? Here's a tip: 6 million lives were lost

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https://youtu.be/rKP6h45tJOc

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>>79730213
is that Sam Riegal? I saw that nigga wearing a WOY shirt on Critical Role

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>>79730001
Jeez, you really want me to go all out with these.

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>>79721240
>WOY had a episode where the cast makes a cartoon
was it as good as this the one dedede made?

>>79730480
It's one of the best episodes in the show.

>>79730556
are you referring to WOY or KRBAY?

>>79731088
Wander Over Yonder.

>>79721828
WoY was animated by Canucks in S1, and Irish boozehounds in S2.

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Animation degree here, animating is really fun but its fucking hard finding a job that pays well. I only do traditional 2D stuff, but everyone only likes flash/tween bullshit now. I use Toon Boom but Flash seems to still be the fucking norm in the industry.

Yeah I went to college for animation, I did it because I needed to learn the discipline, its hard to get shit started on your own when you have no experience.

>>79731483

My girlfriend wants to be an animator. Kinda nervous about her getting a job after college...

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>>79731562
It is the most stressful fucking shit if you are not one of the A listers in your class, and depending on your professors they may or may not be nice enough to hook you with up a connection post graduation or play favorites with you.

My senior film was pretty successful and well liked but the faculty was awful and didn't really help anyone, and if they did they kept it secretive. At the day of our show I found out last minute there was a cash prize for best film presented, and it was only found out when the winner was chosen. It was some low ball shit and made the whole thing feel like a contest after that.

My advice; don't let her go to college unless she feels she can really handle it, and if she can, tell her to find internships and obsess over finding a job before graduation.

Youre going to be waist high in debt, so once you get the degree you need to fucking go all out or deal with working shitty day jobs until the debt is paid off.

>>79731861
What I'm doing right now is putting my loan paymenys on hold for awhile, and making shit constantly hoping someone will bite.

Anyway, I wish your gf the best of luck in whatever she decides.

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>>79728203
Nichijou is pretty much the best quality of animation Japan has to offer, you can't put it up with adventure time. I think his point was that if you take the best the US has to offer, it's shits on anime

>>79730094
>The show has more individual drawings per episode than pretty much any other we've had in years.
Poses that tween into other poses, yes

>>79730117
I see you have nothing to say.

>>79730362
Still looks better than SU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra4UWtNMUKk

>>79721240
Yes and the actual animators and artists do, not the fucking money men who plaster their names all over everything.

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>>79731917
>the west shitting on the east
Thats fucking horse shit and you know it man, youre just playing favorites.

>Nichijou
>the best

its a fucking pretty well animated show but there are BETTER examples

>>79731483
where do you live, currently studying animation

>>79732060
East Coast, near a major city.

>>79731917
>Nichijou is pretty much the best quality of animation Japan has to offer, you can't put it up with adventure time.
1. No it's not the best japan has to offer
2. They're both tv cartoons so it's fair game

>Iron Giant
>best US has to offer
Get some god damn taste and don't post a CG rig next time

>>79721375
>>79722379
You SJW tryhards are catching on quick for once in your lives. Good for you.

>>79732080
Care to share you work? I've always liked animation but live in the middle of nowhere on the east coast, and it seems like an occupation that doesn't even exist here. All I envision being work around here is manual labor or minimum wage restaurant jobs. This coming from someone currently doing a manual labor job who wants one where I sit on my ass and get paid well enough.

>>79731975
the outsources in short then...

>>79721375
The hell is wrong with her in this one

>>79732087
I just like iron giant, I didn't mean that it had the best animation, although they did kind of invent ways to stop the cg from clashing with the 2d

>>79732152
I would but I don't wanna get called out for whoring for attention, sorry man.

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>>79731483
You could have just torrented the Animator's Survival Guide videos

Animation schools don't teach anything worth while, this is who they're hiring nowadays to review portfolios

>>79732188
You could just consider it showing proof as to your original post because right now you have no credibility to it

>>79732188
Doesn't have to be anything from your actual professional work. Maybe a small loop you worked on the side?

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>>79731917
>>79732029
>>79732087
>arguing about cartoons for children
never change, /co/mblr

>>79732206
I have the book, but even when I did I couldn't force myself to get started on anything. Plus I didn't have the software or tools for animating at the time. Before I just drew a lot and did a little spriting/pixel art, I animated some small things but I didn't start making films until I was forced to for my thesis projects.

I only went to two animation schools, I learned more from my associates degree classes than my bachelors, ironically.

>>79732242
Thats fine, I don't really need to prove anything to anyone on 4chan.

>>79727631
They want to be paid more. If they wanted that, they should do something people value more.

>>79732306
Most "adult" animation looks like crap

>>79732206
What the hell is this shit

>>79721240
Most adults have gone past liking children's cartoons, faggot. No one talks about the newest SU episode around the water cooler

>>79732435
most "adult" animation is aimed at teenagers, not adults

>>79732459
No, but we talk about who's stronger between Goku and Superman.

>>79732306
I see you've forgotten where you are, my silly newfriend.

>>79721240
Nah

Hard to believe this shit won an Annie

>>79732154
make sense

>>79732540
>butthurt SU fag

>>79732455
That my friend is the comic of one of character animation professors of CalArts

>>79730213
>All these steps
Jesus fuck

>>79730362
vidyagaemcorpses.webm

>>79730480
It was fucking terrific.

>>79721240

rooms packed full of Koreans would applaud you, but they are too busy.

They get plenty of credit from the fans, and respect in the industry from peers.

What they need is better pay and longer release schedules so they don't have to resort to noodle-arm bullshit styles and tweening everything.

>>79731958
>Still looks better than SU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra4UWtNMUKk [Embed]

sorry but you have just scored an own goal,
That scene is more or less directly lifted from an anime, Utena

here's a lik to the comparison because i can't find the pic
http://believeinsteven.tumblr.com/post/82253297136/queenlionsnake-everyone-else-is-like-sanic

So you can't really say that SU is animated worse than anime using that clip.

>>79727458
>anime is stiff as fuck. workers that get paid like shit produce shit
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/10753/
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/17289/
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/14715/
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/8714/
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/16157/
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/17747/

>>79727774
>even shitty low budget western cartoons are more fluid than anime
This is possible. However, what does it matter if something is "fluid"? You can make stick figures walking left and right on a flat plane look "fluid," but that doesn't mean it's good animation.

>>79737254
>That scene is more or less directly lifted from an anime, Utena
If I'm not mistaken (I've not seen Utena), this is the original scene:
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/10045/

Doesn't look QUITE the same...

>>79721316
The Koreans who animate SU probably have no idea of what's going on

>>79737886
> let me post the half a dozen examples of good Japanese animation
> it's 10 seconds of the same flashy shit vs. 30 minutes of still shots of people opening and closing their mouths

>>79738064
>30 minutes of still shots of people opening and closing their mouths
This is a myth.

And I also posted those to refute the idea that anime animators produce poor work because they aren't paid well enough.

>>79738107
But they do. Producing 10 seconds of good animation doesn't make a 20 minute episode good.

>>79738202
Yes it does though.

>>79738202
TV anime production has limited time, money and personnel. It is simply impossible to maintain animation like https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/8714/ all the time, even for a top-tier studio like Kyoto Animation. It's not that they can't do it, it's that there is no time. Six episodes of animation already hits the upper limit of running time for animated movies (120 minutes), which usually aren't even that long. And yet there is less production time than in a movie, and you still have 6 - 18 episodes left to go.

This idea that there's a few seconds or minutes of great animation surrounded by still images and mouth flaps is, again, a myth. Maybe you can find episodes where production was really messed up and something like that ended up happening, but there's nothing normal about that.

And when all is said and done, anime still looks radically better than American shows. It's possible that American shows have more frames of animation, but that doesn't mean they're good frames of animation or that simply having animation means anything.

>>79721375
>Make a cartoon
More like ask the koreans to make a cartoon for them. Have you seen the schlock they send overseas? The animation studio has to do most of the work for them, all they get from hacks like Sugar and Penn is stick figures of the characters with the dialog written below. Anything good that comes out of their animation is a complete accident.

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>>79721289
Yes it will.
>>79721316
Show like Tiny Toons, Batman & Animaniacs have world regard animators.
>>79721665
Yes, they do.
>>79730001
Conan was more then the $69,000 that most anime cost at the time.
>>79731352
Produced, the only thing Disney produced in the States was GF & 7D.
>>79731917
No, this is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-ji8Oo5q3o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccC6LcqwS5Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR4bKHlhmjk

Also, theres this.

>>79738435
>No, this is.
Something isn't the best quality just because it was made for a Western production.

Why does that image stress "fun" so much? It doesn't have anything to do with animation quality.

If Americans want to bring back animation to America they would do well to investigate anime production and animation, and consider whether voice actors should be paid hundreds of thousands of dollars per episode.

>>79738541
It is for Japan.

Yes it does, stiff animation is bad.

Simpsons already does that, it's the animation budget that needs to be larger.

>>79738365
So what? Everything has a budget and limited time. If the Japanese think it's good to put all the budget and slave work in 10 seconds of animation I still have to watch the rest of the episode; mouth flapping and lazy static shots are everywhere, even in bigger anime productions. Nobody IRL talks like that, and I don't give a shit if for 10 seconds they're exploding mountains in full details afterwards.

Your average Western show has better direction, expression and actual animation (as in giving LIFE to things) than most anime you can name.

> Inb4 reply with a webm of Paprika or another of the select 5 Japanese movies that do it right.

>>79738714
>It is for Japan.
Why would it be?

>Yes it does, stiff animation is bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVr0tmlnRyI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvx7p6-lABw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR1cMPnMcaY
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x28l37_you-re-under-arrest-op_fun

>Simpsons already does that, it's the animation budget that needs to be larger.
I bet the budget is much larger than it is in anime. Episodes spend 9 months in production. There are 12 episode anime shows produced from start to finish in that time (not including pre-production time).

Production limitations are one of the pillars of anime and what made it the way it is, and in general Japanese entertainment has much smaller budgets than American entertaninment (America also has twice the population). The Wind Rises cost $30 million to make, whereas Frozen was $150 million.

>>79738800
>So what? Everything has a budget and limited time
Anime has smaller budgets and less time, and still looks better.

>mouth flapping and lazy static shots are everywhere, even in bigger anime productions
Westerners have this fetishistic obsession with mouths for some reason, like they get erections if they see well-articulated mouth movement and moving jaws. It's really bizarre. Or maybe it's just a convinient yet arbitrary and misguided way of attempting to assert superiority over anime?

Static shots are used even in high end anime movies, but it's not necessarily because of production limitations. It's part of the style of anime. Anime uses a cinematic style, not a cartoon style like American animation does.

Here is a scene from a live action movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0VJa3HmsJQ

Notice the lack of actor movement, a prolonged absence of the actor, and the use of panning shots. This sort of thing is considered fine in live action, yet for some reason animation isn't allowed to do it?

>Your average Western show has better direction, expression and actual animation (as in giving LIFE to things) than most anime you can name.
Western shows have very primitive production values and direction compared to anime. They are not rooted in the idea of cinematism, and the sole thing anyone cares about is how "smoothly" the characters move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG7Rg_WiXYI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DflP5mBsivA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVf7fiQG1NM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixF6PXdIBmo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRHJntLYMh0

And as I just said:
>It's possible that American shows have more frames of animation, but that doesn't mean they're good frames of animation or that simply having animation means anything.

>Inb4 reply with a webm of Paprika or another of the select 5 Japanese movies that do it right.
Didn't I already explain how different TV and movie anime are?

>>79738714
>japan has stiff animation meme
It's not the 1980s anymore.

>>79739055
>The Wind Rises.
It should be noted that only $5 million was spent on the actual movie it self when the remaining $25 million was just marketing.

It's why Hosoda/Chizu can match Ghibli's quality with a fraction of the cost.

Frozen was almost nothing but world wide marketing when The Wind Rises just had to bother with Japan.

>Yes it does, stiff animation is bad.
I was talking about later seasons of The Simpsons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_L01l5eDag

>>79732103
Something tells me you've never animated anything in your life

>>79732540
Go fuck yourself and then go watch The Cartoon

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>>79730213
>A year and 3 months of straight work

jesus

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>>79739213