>comics everyone loves but you
It's like Planetary except worse and half of its praise comes from the fact that it's written like a DC comic with some actual respect for character history
Batman by Snyder/Capullo. It's not awful, but I cannot wrap my head around all the fucking praise it's getting, as if it wasn't a 6/10 book that followed the best Batman run in twenty years (Gmozz, obviously). I'm sure there are curmudgeonly contrarians lurking on /co/ who will back me up, but most everybody thinks Snyder's the greatest Batman writer to ever walk the earth and it rustles the fuck outta my jimmies.
It's been consistently great, and super accessible, for 5 years running, how can you NOT love him? Snyder writes a well rounded Morrison inspired Batman instead of the shitty rude brood dude we've been getting for decades, the Court of Owls was a wonderful addition to the mythos, Zero Year was colorful and fun.
The writing was insipid and I just didn't get the appeal of wanting to read a comic about a superhero on his off days. Not to mention how what's her face started slowly taking over the title in typical Marvel fashion.
>I just didn't get the appeal of wanting to read a comic about a superhero on his off days
Seeing what heroes do on their down time is one of my fucking favorite things in these types of settings. I do think Fraction's Hawkeye is a little overhyped though.
I'll give you that it's accessible, which is a big strength of the book that obviously doesn't matter to a longtime nerd like me. But that's true.
>for 5 years running
This is also a strength. I love me some consistent creative teams with long-ass runs.
>Court of Owls was a wonderful addition to the mythos
Eh, it bored the fuck out of me. It's the most hackneyed "secret society that's been manipulating shit FOR CENTURIES!!1!!" plot ever. It's cool if other people dig it, but I thought it was lame.
>Zero Year was colorful and fun
Zero Year had some great ideas (feral Gotham, Riddler as dictator, Dirtbike Batman), but slipped up with me in big ways. The Riddler has been long in need of a proper revitalization, and I wanted this to be it, but it wasn't. It was the same old played-out shtick. They couldn't even be bothered to update the costume! Also, the "game of wits" between Batman and Riddler (or between Batman and any other villain) are so stupid. Morrison (full disclosure: as I'm sure you've guessed, I'm a huge Morrison apologist/fanboy) made ridiculous riddles and codes seem actually connected in elaborate logic puzzles. Snyder just has characters shout obscure Wikipedia factoids at each other, as if making the exact same ridiculous jump in logic as the other guy is the same as being ten steps ahead of everyone.
Oh hell yes. Best part of the book by far are those tasty, tasty colors. Coloring on the book is top notch, has been from the start. I'm 100% in agreement on how dope the coloring job from FCO has been.
Also, I know you didn't bring it up, but Snyder can't write the Joker for shit. Morrison writes the Joker better than anyone. DC editorial deserves a tiny bit of the blame, though, because they neutered Snyder's clumsy sexual innuendo in the Joker's dialogue to protect the kiddies (of course, who was it that introduced the psychosexual drama to the Batman/Joker relationship? Oh yeah...).
Same goes for Y The Last Man and pretty much every other book this guy has done.
I also HATE his Slashfick Joker, and absolutely love Morrison's run, even going on Absolutes and whatnot.
Court of Owls had a supernatural/horror bend to it that I really liked, also harkening back to a more well rounded Morrison inspired Batman with some Golden Age flavour, and solidified the idea that Gotham City is corrupt to the core, absolving Batman of all the "he's just another loon and part of the problem" schitck I'm really tired of, while it's true that secret societies are kinda played out, I think it was better as a long running addition by an order of magnitude than the Black Glove or the Religion of Crime.
Zero Year was flat out fucking amazing, Riddler reboots always flounder, given by all the times he went psycho or got a stupid mohawk haircut, Zero Year had a RIDDLER ass Riddler done right and interesting, it's the best he's been since being a PI.
Overall I love how Snyder writes a meaty, history heavy Batman while still keeping it accessible to all my casual friends, which as much as I love Morrison, is undeniably super important to such a flagship title (not to mention the early proper Batman title run pales in comparsion to B&R or Batman Inc).
I've borrowed my trades and had NOT MUH BATS Nolanfans loving colorful Zero Year, horror inspired Court of Owls, Justice League member Batgod on Endgame...
And let's not kid ourselves and pretend EVERY Batman writer is Morrison caliber, most guys are content to make a SUPER EDGY YOU WON'T MISS THIS ONE retooling of a C-lister villain, get in a crossover and a lame joker story.
Dude just makes my eyes roll. Hell, I have the feeling I only enjoyed We3 because of Quitely.
I'm really not a fan of anything BKV has done, Y is especially overrated to me. My one exception is Saga just because I love the art and think some of the ideas are pretty cool. Not a popular opinion on /co/
Well don't you want Morrison's more holistic Batman to be solidified as THE Batman? Before Morrison guys were "harkening back to literally the run immediately previous" too, only it was a simpler and less interesting take, which has already been t thoroughly explored for 20+ years.
Ms Marvel. I actually quite like Kamala and think her whole thing is cool but I absolutely cannot stand the feminism wank that Wilson inserts with the subtlety of a brick to the face. The part where the brother had the talk with Bruno was great and made me really like the guy. His speech when he is affected by the mist stuff and clobbers evil crush made me drop the series until Wilson leaves which I expect to be no time soon
that speech when he gets powers was great, you're meant to see him as an asshole
there were even some very handy illustrations to clue you in to this
Practically everything past the Stan Lee run, aside from a couple 6 issue arcs, and some of Ultimate.
He's important as a launchpad for hyper-humanized superhero characters but his shtick gets really old really fast.
He's the Beatles of comic book IPs, because of the hype it seems amazing and one-of-a-kind when you're young and inexperienced enough, then the more well versed you become in the medium the more you realize it's insultingly average.
Anything by Alan Moore that isn't Watchmen.
I didn't care for Captain Britain or Swamp Thing. V for Vendetta would have been good if you could actually differentiate the politicians and their wives (it's the artist's as opposed to Moore's fault but still makes the book way less enjoyable).
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is trash as is From Hell.
The Killing Joke is one of the most overrated Batman stories (the only good part is the interaction between Batman and Joker at the end).
Also, why do all of Alan Moore's stories need rape? He's as bad as the writers of the Game of Thrones TV series.
This thread is everything wrong with /co/.
You guys are 20% fans and 80% haters, and it's even worse because you seek validation so desperately, circlejerk with those who share the same opinions and attack those who don't.
You are all faggots, have a nice day.
You're a fucking idiot. This thread is literally
>comics everyone loves but you
and people are posting like the one or two comics that get a lot of talk that they didn't enjoy. Anons in this thread could have literally 99.9% the exact same taste as you and you came into the thread devoted to discussing that last 0.1% and you're sperging at everyone.
I'm a big Moore fanboy, but Tom Strong sucked. Some of the backups (not written by Moore) were cool, but the main ABC stories were lame attempts to recapture golden-age magic through pure harnessed nostalgia. Weak.
Fashion Beast was also pretty stupid, but it was drawn from a movie script he did in the 80s so I'll give it a pass
thisthisthisthis but switch out We3 for
Wasn't even a fucking Animal Man comic. It was 4th Wall Man. The same protagonist from EVERY fucking Morrison comic. Literally every other Animal Man writer was better (except Milligan).
what do you think about the recolor? It sucks IMO
>tfw no rainbow babies
That.... that's completely superficial resemblance! Planetary was deconstructing pulp shit, Iron Fist meanwhile did a pulpy throwback martial arts book with mysticism on the side.
>I didn't care for Captain Britain or Swamp Thing.
I don't like Saga, or the works of Brian K. Vaughn. Before you say no one likes it, every other website on the internet does so shut up. It has the same problems as Kirkman books. Shit gets threaded so much and the soap operatics feel cheap and forced and this shit is gonna run for 200 issues probably and its already stale
Most everything by Ed Brubaker. Look I love Gotham Central, his Catwoman run. and Sleeper was great, but his noir books are, to quote a user above, "insultingly average". Once you've studied the noir genre, you realize Brubaker isn't so much good at noir as he is at using the tropes exceedingly well. none of his works are good enough to be called a classic within the genre nor do they break the rules and reinvent anything
>why do all of Alan Moore's stories need rape
I just read through his Supreme and there's a British invasion writer who writes not-superman and constantly mocks older comic conventions and inserts edgy shit into the comic he writes, including rape. While I disagree about Moore's quality of output it's pretty hypocritical for him to attack people who write edgy capes when he literally wrote the book on it.
It's not the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it's pretty entertaining more often than not. I can see it being popular, just not one of the greatest runs of all time, which it is not. People who say that are just people who have not read enough of Batman.
My main issue with Fraction's Hawkeye is that it portrays Clint as a complete Z-list loser. Now, I don't mind the idea of capes doing mundane shit and over-exaggerating the absurdity a la Venture Bros, but Fraction just took Clint's inability to do anything right so far it became almost a parody of itself and made it ridiculous even to consider Clint as competent enough that his day job is in the Avengers. And the overall story was completely boring, uplifted by Aja's art.
Moore at least had some sort of purpose to including edge
His imitators saw how successful Watchmen was and thought it was because of the edge instead of the actual quality of the comic
Court of Owls was okay. Bruce's reaction was interesting, but the super secret society has been done and it's implausible that it's been going on under Bruce's nose this entire time.
>Also, why do all of Alan Moore's stories need rape? He's as bad as the writers of the Game of Thrones TV series.
The worst is his Lovecraftian stories.
"The books describe these horrors as incomprehensible monsters who's very existence can drive you mad, how can I possibly make that work in a comic? I've got it, rape"
I still don't know why people cried over this. I've come to accept that I'm too much of pleb to "get" Grant Morrison's brand of genius.
Boo hoo, cute animals made to do evil human stuff, animal death, so deep, so sad.
Well, Nemo: Heart of Ice did the "drive you mad" thing really well, so there's that. Neonomicon was a monster rape porn comic without the balls to be an actual monster rape porn comic, though. I haven't read Providence but I'm expecting it's more of the same
the best noir comics stuff I've read probably has to be from Will Eisner. No one does it quite like he does. Sandman Mystery Theatre by Matt Wagner and Guy Davis is pretty good too. Anything drawn by Francesco Francavilla is worth it solely for the artwork (I found his black beetle to have an average story but gorgeous art)
I'm not even saying Swamp Thing is bad, I just didn't care for it.
The book is way too rapey.
That's cause Alan Moore is incredibly jealous of Morrison because Morrison doesn't need to add rape to his stories.
>but Tom Strong sucked.
Mugga, I will fight you!
No it fucking isn't. Immortal Iron Fist played it straight, while Planetary was very much deconstructing fiction in general, pulps was just one of the things it concentrated on because pulps gave birth to comics and superheroes and those concepts were inherent part of the bigger story.
We3 has the least to "get" of any Morrison work. Really it's Quietly's book more than Morrison's. The story is bare bones but that's all it needs to be. It's a showcase for crazy awesome art and fights. Probably his "plebbest" work but it's still incredibly well crafted and a lot of people cry at cute animals dying in general.
This one isn't really all that complicated. Most of the "genius" comes from how the comic is designed and put together; it isn't a particularly deep or nuanced narrative.
And people reacting more emotionally to animal deaths has been a thing since forever.
I don't think Lemire's Green Arrow is all that great.
1.) it's light on actual characterization for Ollie. Ollie basically reads like a Hawkeye clone here, and never exhibits any of the traits that made him compelling in the first place
2.) It's purely an ideas book. It's like a Geoff Johns comic without the proper execution Johns has. The reinventions of Count Vertigo and Richard Dragon? The Outsiders? Giving Ollie a rogues gallery in form of the Longbow Hunters? All fantastic ideas with mediocre execution that leave no lasting impression. The rogues gallery doesn't feel organized like it should, Vertigo and Dragon have the barest of characters, and the Outsiders are barely interconnected in the way that mad the rainbow corps so impressionable
3. The lack of internal continuity throughout the runs (not really a lemire problem, but a whole new 52 GA problem. No one uses the same characters save for Emiko or Fyff. None of it feels like the same book)
just fucking stick johns on this shit and let him work his magic
Fine. He's done rape "well" more than once.
But League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is way too rapey in general. The fact that one of the many rapes worked well in that book is the same as saying a stopped watch is right twice a day.
I also read All Star Superman several times, and I still can't understand how so many consider it one of the best Superman comics ever made.
I really wish I could understand what I'm missing with this one. I don't think it's innovative and I couldn't find it fun or entertaining.
I wish someone would explain what makes this the prime rib of Superman comics.
To me, the fish rape in Neonomicon is one of the best usages of the comic medium with the way it gives you a chilling and creepy sense what rape is like from the victim's pov. The fact that the girl had bad eyesight and couldn't see shit at first just intensified it immensely.
also personal gripe should have kept robert queen alive. a hero with a dad who is alive would have been an interesting fucking dynamic. we could have even gotten an archer family.
robert, GA, roy, emiko, and shado
>But League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is way too rapey in general.
Repressed sexuality and misogyny was a big thing in Victorian England. Thematically it makes sense for there to be rape.
How much Superman have you read and from which eras? ASS is beloved in part because it manages to synthesize basically his entire history into a giant, one might almost call it defining, last story of Superman. It's inspirational, gorgeously illustrated, fun, insightful to the characters and core themes, and delivers to many all the beats they would want from a Superman story.
It's really just a perfect representation of "realized hero" Superman. It's got a nice little idea of "Superman by way of Zarathustra," but again, not particularly dense.
I think a lot of people in this thread aren't realizing that /co/'s exaggeration works both ways. The books they hate are obviously not as bad as the people bitching about them say they are, but the good works aren't always intellectual esoterica either.
Will Eisner's stuff on the Spirit
Sandman Mystery Theatre by Matt Wagner and Guy Davis its 70 issues + a 5 issue mini following the golden age sandman wesley dodds. Even has a weird proto-jsa
I like anything illustrated by Francesco Francavilla, if solely for the art. mostly buy stories featuring his stuff to look at the art
I'll be honest, not much. The majority of Supes stuff I've read is 90s onward, outside Superdickery covers.
That being said, the biggest fans in my experience have been people who don't normally read Superman, who thought of him as a boring boy scout. "I always hated Superman because he's a boring do-gooder with no personality, but I love All-Star!" is how I've often seen it described. I never thought he was boring, so I assumed I'd be even more open to it.
Punisher MAX in general was overrated, but Born was especially bad.
I saw it more as the Lovecraftian monsters being completely beyond human morality, hence why the rape from the monster's perspective isn't malicious, it just wants to breed and the woman kind of starts to see that as the story nears the end of it.
That's so dumb. For one thing it is supposed to be a Deep One which are highly intelligent and human like. Two, most Deep Ones back in the 20s were already hybrids which means that Deep One was probably a human at some point. Alan just wanted to write a rape.
> A Serious House on Serious Earth
I feel that its impact on Batman comics is undeniable and essential to the great stuff we see today. I also agree that it's not a good comic on its own. I can't exactly put my finger on why Batman's character in the story was so irritating, but I kept thinking "fanfic Batman" while reading it.
>I can't exactly put my finger on why Batman's character in the story was so irritating, but I kept thinking "fanfic Batman" while reading it.
It really wasn't much of an actual narrative so much as it was a jumbling of assorted ideas, written with the sole purpose to show that superheroes can be deep and "adult." Not that I disagree with the claim, but it's hardly a good example of Morrison's craft.
>Batman blatantly spelling out his internal struggle in the second panel
>Repressed sexuality and misogyny was a big thing in...
It has been a big thing throughout human history, including modern history. Does that mean every story which is marginally historical should have lots of rape?
But Victorian England is especially well remembered for that. Not every historical story needs to include rape, but if it fits the story then there should be no problems including rape, especially if you use it to examine cultural shifts in its attitude towards rape, etc.
Typical Bendis padding and dialogue, godawful villain characterizations, plot points that either go absolutely nowhere or appear out of nowhere with no foreshadowing whatsoever because it's apparent Bendis cannot into long-term planning.
I like cape comics with the more human side to the characters, but I couldn't stomach this.
It was too boring and something about the writing is so damn smug, it pisses me off.
Yet you still had shit like treating women for "hysteria." And completely misogynistic attitude towards women and sexuality, where the police in one documented case immediately dismissed a rape allegation made by a maid simply after they discovered that earlier she had, iirc by request, sung a dirty song for a group of people at a party, and was thus a loose women who could not be forced to coitus against her will.
It's paranormal pulpy shit, but it's pulpy shit done incredibly well.
- Character development is very rewarding and well done
- Monster variety is absolutely massive, grounded in real-world folklore and ranges from minor shit like Wendigos to full-blown Lovecraftian monstrosities
- Plotting and continuity is extremely tight despite there being like twenty different spin-offs and fifty shades of weird shit taking place. Almost every single existing plot element/aspect can be meaningfully connected to any other plot element.
-BPRD provides a pretty unique comic book perspective where the world basically ends twice over and for all the minor victories, it becomes clear they're not winning in the grand scheme of things.
I'll admit too much of Hellboy's stuff leans on Hellboy going OH CRAP, getting his shit kicked in and then dishing out the punches until he wins, but the rest of Mignolauniverse as a whole just feels like a supernatural shared-Marvel/DC universe that doesn't get riddled with stupid crossovers and plotholes or get completely derailed a year in by retard writers.
the art on Fell is really good but like Warren Ellis and detective fiction just doesn't work imo. I read his novels, crooked little vein and gun machine, and both try way too hard to be shocking and different and that extends to Fell as well.
I like it but it's overrated. Towards the ending the art gets shitty and it's a poor conclusion for the arc. And then there's stuff set up for the future and the creative team abandons ship.
Man, one of the biggest comic book sites here on Brazil, Omelete(it's for normies, and it's not actually focused on comic books) made an entire video about how Snyder's run was the BEST COMIC BOOK EVER, and i just wanted to fucking vomit
Snyder can write, and Capullo's art is truly amazing, but fuck if it's not the most mediocre thing ever
Providence is actually pretty good in terms of keeping it close to the source material. The only real rape that's happened so far is when
the protagonist's mind is switched into the Asenath Waite-analogue's body
It's good, but not really consistent. I like the high points, but Snyder does something stupid in the end or somewhere else to spoil the arc. Also it's quite monotonous. I like it due to Capullo and FCO's art.
Yeah, Snyder in general CANNOT stick the landing with his arcs, in almost everything he does. Look at Rotworld.
American Vampire, thankfully, seems to be the one exception, but even that's gone a bit squiffy recently. Thank god for Albuquerque art.
I like Grant Morrison but I don't really get his Batman run. Granted, I've only read Batman RIP and Batman and Robin so maybe I'm not seeing his grand story. Or maybe it's too high concept for me
I think basically every other arc has been good. His Joker is trash, but Zero Year and Superheavy are quite fun. It's the art and coloring that really makes me keep coming back.
His writing just makes me roll my eyes every fucking time. Narration box after narration box, filled with stupid historical trivia and explanations into what Gotham means as a city and how it inspires the citizens and blah blah fucking blah.
I read this the other day and I don't get the hype. The first half is just an asshole being obtuse and acting clever without doing or saying anything actually interesting. The second half gets better but still isn't good.
Dok Sleepless is my jam.
>some actual respect for character history
So....you don't like that?
Saga is so tame. Crossed is a comic for edgelords. Neonomicon is a comic for edgelords. Faust is a comic for edgelords.
Saga is a comic for bloggers who think a little sex and some swearing is TOO CRAZY.