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Why are most female led books like this?
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You are currently reading a thread in /co/ - Comics & Cartoons

Thread replies: 272
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Why are most female led books like this?
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>>79688189
This is exactly why I can't stand current Batgirl and Black Canary. They act like incompetent idiots half their age.
Starfire too. Instead of being "fish out of water" she constantly seems to be mentally handicapped.
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>>79688189
Because they want new female readers, and most girls can't to relate to anyone who isn't just like them.
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>>79688189
>>79688274

Also Spider-Woman and Hellcat for Marvel.

Thor is borderline, but Jane sure as fuck isn't acting like she is a grown woman who's been married and has a kid (SOMEWHERE).

Kamala gets a pass because she's an ACTUAL TEENAGER.

ANAD Wasp by Waid is 90% likely to be this considering his current run of quirky quip titles for Marvel.
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>>79688189
>Why are most female led books like this?
Because most of the people that complain about female led books ARE quirky college kids that ignore the long history of characters and whine about vapid and unimportant things.
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>>79688189
better take important well established heroes and turn them into women.
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>>79688322
>Kamala gets a pass because she's an ACTUAL TEENAGER.
It's freaking amazing that so many people seem to ignore that fact too, what with the whole "Why don't you like Squirrel Girl!? You like Kamala!"
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Narcissistic self insertion. It's frustrating because there are so many heroic archetypes from mythology for women that they could build great characters from, but they refuse to do this. They can't look past the contemporary notion of what they perceive as the average modern womans daily life. It's irritating.

This is a much wider problem that has permeated throughout the entire industry outside of the whole petty boys vs girls stuff. Comics are so immersed in subversion of themes that they have completely lost the foundation of what made them work in the first place. They need some classically minded mother fuckers to come in to the writing scene to restore this foundation
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>>79688189
>we don't mean "Take important and well established heroes and turn them into something they're not and have never been for the sake of trying to attract a specific audience"

Welcome to fucking comics for the last four years or so.

Please feel free to go over next to the Lobo and Wally West fans and join in the mourning, they'll understand.
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>>79688336
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>>79688189
Hack writing and lack of ideas.

>>79688312
>most girls can't to relate to anyone who isn't just like them
It's sad that some people actually think this.
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Because cat lady spinsters aren't as valuable a market?

Unless maybe they started ripping off Twilight but in comic form... starring older versions of the heroines... spinsters seem to buy that shit like hotcakes...hmmm...
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>>79688440
What are you on about?
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>reducing their importance in the superhero community
>importance in the superhero community

anyone else find this funny? I mean I get what she means but come on...
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>>79688189
But, "Muh jumping on point"
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>>79688419
The problem is catering to fans at all. Fans should be ignored. They know nothing. Writers should write for themselves
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>>79688189
I'm just glad this hasn't effected Monica. She's written as a proper, mature adult in Ultimates and Mighty Avengers.
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>>79688482

So much this.
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>>79688189
I have stopped reading marvel, does the new wolverine suffer the same fate ?
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Because you decided to listen to idiots that think things like demanding competence are a part of "toxic masculinity".
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>>79688466
Well, compare to when obscure male characters are reinvented, they're usually pushed to the forefront of the superhero community by giving them conflicts worthy enough to raise their profiles. Female characters, it ends up being the opposite.
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>>79688377
>This is a much wider problem that has permeated throughout the entire industry outside of the whole petty boys vs girls stuff. Comics are so immersed in subversion of themes that they have completely lost the foundation of what made them work in the first place. They need some classically minded mother fuckers to come in to the writing scene to restore this foundation

Largely this is because comics has had a huge influx of "new" talent that come from either independent publishing (where they have no foundation for writing classic superhero stuff) or from webcomics (where they have no foundation for writing).

Look at Bendis, for example. His flagship project was Powers for Image which was a subverting of superhero tropes, and Alias for Marvel MAX which was a subversion of superhero tropes. The closest he's come to writing a "straight" superhero book in his career was Daredevil, which was at the start of his time at Marvel and in the style of Frank Miller. Since then he's degenerated further and further into his own shitty tropes.

Marvel is filled with these artists and writers who think the classic superhero form is stupid, antiquated or worse, and a few who understand and love the form and are trying to bring it back. Unfortunately the indie-style shit tends to get the most press (Fraction's Hawkeye being a premiere case in point) because somehow people still think it's shocking that the Big Two would publish an indie-style snoozefest even though they have done it for the last 15 years or so.
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>>79688542
It's fucking stupid that Marvel and DC publish so many superhero comics though. Like if Penguin and Random House exclusively published Western novels.
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I don't understand why almost every single comic with a female lead now feels exactly the same. There's nothing challenging about them, there's no bite at all, it's all bland, inoffensive, quirky comedy that caters to the Internet crowd.
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>>79688503
Toxic masculinity is just having a really edgy and generic protagonist, isn't it?

You can have a competent female character that isn't edgy.
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>>79688608
DC has tried multitudes of times to do more genre defining books but no one buys them. People want capes and they will continue reading it.
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>>79688542
While you're right, it's worth bringing attention to the fact that there are still a fair number of more traditional superhero comic writers at Marvel. Ewing comes to mind as a "new talent" that embraces the roots of the genre unironically. They've also got Conway, Robinson, Waid, and sporadic others that I'm drawing a blank on right now.
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>>79688616
>inoffensive
that is the word anon, now that comics are for casual the publishers dont want people to offend about x-23 past as a hooker
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>>79688618

Toxic masculinity is having a man that acts like a man.
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>>79688496

I wouldn't say so. Tom Taylor is pretty much straight up an action beats writer. He's not a super good one, but so far Laura's title has mostly been the same kind of thing you'd expect of a Logan book.
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>>79688482
This nigga knows what's up.
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>>79688677
>publishers dont want people to offend about x-23 past as a hooker
But All-new Wolverine directly referenced her time as a hooker, so I'm not sure what your point is. That people who don't read comics are the ones most likely to complain about people not reading comics?
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>>79688482

Also when this happens you actually need talented writers and weed out the ones who only know how to pander.
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>>79688668

Yes, I didn't mean to infer that it was everyone working at Marvel, just that in the books being discussed in this thread, these artist/writers tend to be of that type.

Waid I feel has fully embraced the current low-hanging fruit and is writing some totally forgettable fluff which might as well be written by someone they ripped from a webcomic.

Also Tom King is a seriously hardcore writer with a solid backing in superhero and non-superhero comics. It's ironic perhaps that the writer of Grayson, which /co/ loves to get its panties in a twist over, is producing some of the best superhero writing Marvel has right now in Vision.
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>>79688715
well that was my theory it seems i am wrong and i should try reading ANAD wolverine
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>>79688542
It's ironic, but because of people like Bendis, subversive deconstructionist takes on superheroes have actually become the status quo to the point where they aren't even subverting anything anymore. It's just this mired post modern mess of self referential meta irony. They can only joke about how creative and out there the expansive Marvel universe is, or used to be, while totally lacking the creative minds that made these stories work in the first place. They'll just make some stupid joke about how wacky and crazy the alien they're fighting is without actually being the weird ass mother fucker in real life who creates those kinds of ideas genuinely. It's just commentary, it isn't the same creative drive that created things like Starlins cosmic Marvel.

It's reached the point where if someone were to write a genuine superhero story built upon classic archetypes with no sense of irony or subversion, it would actually in a weird way be totally subversive to the current status quo
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>Male hero

Loses an arm saving the world from a dude who is trying to poison the city

>Female hero

Tries to catch a lost kitten for a little girl while on their way to return some anime dvd or some shit.
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>>79688755
Vision is hardly superhero writing.
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>>79688755
>Grayson, which /co/ loves to get its panties in a twist over,

Eh? Most of /co/ loves Grayson.
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>>79688608
There were, like, 3 fucking war books when the nu52 launched, and a western, and a bunch of other stuff, they sold like rancid shit.

This is like complaining there's too many YA novels about kids overthrowing an oppressive regime or falling in love,
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>>79688482
>Writers should write for themselves

This the writer writing for herself and JUST herself.
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>>79688779

I think the last time Marvel had a sub-line which wasn't built on this was the DnA era cosmic Marvel. Which of course petered out and vanished and then its corpse got reanimated into Bendis GOTG and OOGA CHAKKA
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>>79688779
>They'll just make some stupid joke about how wacky and crazy the alien they're fighting is without actually being the weird ass mother fucker in real life who creates those kinds of ideas genuinely

I fucking hate this shit. Like in the new Guardians stuff, they described Knowhere as being at the edge of the universe, with a little * saying "It's true! Isn't that just cuhrazy!?" If anything its one of the tamer things in the Marvel Universe.
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>>79688868
dont let your personal politics transfer to your work ? I know this kind of things are enforcer in workplaces in my country but i dont know how it is in usa
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>>79688189
Who is "we"? Because last I checked, those books seem to be selling.
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Because marketing aimed at women is always terribly done and usually doesn't work unless it's something they want already.
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>>79688312
>and most girls can't to relate to anyone who isn't just like them.
I can't relate to space aliens or people with dead parents, yet I enjoy their stories.
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>>79688419

>It's sad that some people actually think this
>the truth is "sad"

Not sure if you've noticed, but it's almost universally the kind of fiction with modern semi-attractive young women in leading roles who are overpowered as shit and can do no wrong that are selling like hotcakes with female markets as of late. Women eat that shit up like there's no tomorrow, as it's to them what shit like Conan is to men, a chance to step into the shoes of someone much more interesting and powerful than you are.

Problem is, all but a rare few female/feminist male writers are clueless about how to balance strengths and flaws in their characters, which leads to entire Justice Leagues' worth of Mary Sues being pumped out like on an assembly line. Almost every single one of these female leads is one, several or all (usually all) of the following:

>gifted power for no good reason except luck, if that, even if it thoroughly-shits on all established canon
>"nerdy" in the modern sense of having odd hobbies that are endearing rather than ostracizing
>a blatant political mouthpiece for the writer(s) at some point, preaching their/their bosses' progressive views ("Women can do anything men can, and often better!"/"Not all Muslims are terrorists!"/"Look at those internet losers talking about video games that we said are dead but keep going on about anyways!") at the bored and increasingly-annoyed reader
>prone to frequently fucking up in ways that are inconsequential/end up helping
>endless gawking about men that'd make the comic fail the Bechdel test 1,000 times over

The blame for this flood of dreck falls on multiple parties. Between women who've never even written a barebones "roses are red" poem, much less likable complex dynamic characters, men who are too thirsty/spineless/both to shoot down shitty ideas and results from women, and diversity quotas both enforced in-company and in modern culture by daft suits, everyone is contributing to the market saturation of utter trash.
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>>79688618
>Toxic masculinity is just having a really edgy and generic protagonist, isn't it?
No, it's the whole, "I can't cry, BECAUSE I'M A MAN".

I'm not saying there's something necessarily wrong with the notion of not crying, but at least do it for an actual reason, like having to keep a brave face for the people you're protecting, or some shit like that. Not just "I'M A MAN HURR". Actual men don't think like that.
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>>79688868

Well, you're right that she's writing for herself, but maybe not in the way you think. This page was clearly just to try and drum up outrage (and interest) for a title that's circling the drain of cancellation.

She probably is a pretty huge twat regardless though.
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>>79688991
>as it's to them what shit like Conan is to men, a chance to step into the shoes of someone much more interesting and powerful than you are.

At least Conan is capable of bleeding every now and then.
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Didn't Storm recently have a solo that sold like shit?
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>>79689037
Yeah but that's because, somehow, a book about resolving agricultural conflicts wasn't very exciting.
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>>79689019

It backfired and just became a meme of how terrible marvel writers are becoming.
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>>79688189
Because women act like children. It's just being realistic.
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Buffy is responsible for a lot of this. A lot of the current female writers and fans grew up with Buffy and are replicating le ebin quirky Joss Whedon quip show except without even the vague notions of threats that the Buffyverse stuff had. As fucking lame and quippy as those shows were, at least they sometimes tried to present a serious threat in a story. Sometimes.
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>>79689064
Hey i liked it that and isnt helping poor black people what liberals and feminist like
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>>79688801
No, only a niche of very horny and very lonely basement dwellers.
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>>79689171
Correct, most of /co/
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While there are anons here who apparently know writers, and maybe even good ones, any good comic i could read. Something a bit grim, not a happy comic.

As good as Transmetropolitan or Preacher, i enjoyed those two quite a bit altough i found preacher to be a bit slow at times.
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>>79688482
If writers were writing for themselves comics would be dead except for stuff by morrison bendis slott and johns.
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>>79688991
>>gifted power for no good reason except luck, if that, even if it thoroughly-shits on all established canon
>>"nerdy" in the modern sense of having odd hobbies that are endearing rather than ostracizing
>>a blatant political mouthpiece for the writer(s) at some point, preaching their/their bosses' progressive views ("Jocks are jerks!!"/"Nerds can be powerful too!"/"Look at these stupid people who only complain when you're trying to help them!!") at the bored and increasingly-annoyed reader
>>prone to frequently fucking up in ways that are inconsequential/end up helping
>>endless gawking about women that'd make the comic fail the reverse Bechdel test 1,000 times over

...Oh shit, they're all just Spider Man.
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>>79689148
Liberals, yes. Feminists, no.
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>>79688189

OP, you implied females are capable of being flawed in any way. Be prepared for this thread to be deleted and you to be banned. Just warning you.
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>>79688274
>>79688322
What I got from Black Canary is that she's violent and paranoid who shuts out the people close to her. Batgirl, in-universe, has something like 2 years of superheroics under her belt with a huge gap in the middle. Also people hated the prior direction they went with the character. Spider-Woman isn't quirky college student either, she's early 00s modern girl problems sitcom.
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Lets just be honest with ourselves here. Seeing a woman as a major lead in comics isn't a typical fan's wants nor is it something you see in real life, therefore its less relatable. There are very few stories of heroes that are women in terms of crime fighting and war. Its just a fact of life because men and women are physically different. And the women that men can relate to most (and most other women) are illogical and irrational walking time bombs. Fuck, I think I just invented a new female lead...Time Bomb, you never know when she'll go off.
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>>79688189
BEcause they're both shooting for the demo that likes that kind of shit and they scooping up amateur talent whose wheel house is that kind of shit.
>>79688482
Sometimes writers are fans, plus it's a business. I mean that's sort of the reason why a lot of genres and niches come about.
Not to mention there's a good amount of shitty books that completely miss the point of what fans liked in the first place if not outright ignored it.
I NEVER WANTED A HERCULES BOOK WHERE HE WAS DEPOWERED LIVING IN BROOKLYN WITHOUT CHO, THAT'S NOT WHY I FELL IN LOVE WITH HIM!
But I digress, the trick isn't not to pander, it's to pander well.
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>>79688365
isn't SG like 18, tops?
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>>79689230

I don't think you've read spider-man.
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>>79689116
Buffy even had the joke villains show themselves to be dangerous in the right circumstances. Warren got shit on as a villain then turned around and gunned Buffy down.
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>>79689275

Well how about you go fuck yourself? I really enjoyed Nico Minoru
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>>79688608
at the star of new 52 you had

Demon knights/amethyst for fantasy

Men of War for war comics

Frankenstein, Voodoo, I,VAMPIRE for supernatural shit

And All-star Western for you western shit.

And they've all been cancelled for lack of reading.
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>>79689286
Pleb, Hercules is one of the best ANAD books we got so far.
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>>79689036
So are they, every month.
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>>79689292
>January 2016
>115 Unbeatable Squirrel Girl 4 19,923
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>>79689265
That's really what the issue is. You can tell these people have mostly consumed sitcoms and other shitty tv shows and that's what they want to emulate. It's the whole fucking Bendis Seinfeld with superheroes garbage. They seriously need to stop hiring people who even care about nerd or Internet culture at all
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>>79689292
She's a sophomore in College, and moved to NYC after turning 18 at the beginning of the Heroic Age. By the time she enrolled at ESU, she had already been in NYC for 6-12 months. She should be ~20 at this point. 19 at an absolute minimum.
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>>79688419
Great pic
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>>79689324
He's probably referring to the Herc book that came right after Chaos War.
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>>79689148
>isnt helping poor black people what liberals and feminist like
Well sure but you could at least not be boring about it.

I don't know, I liked the ideas, I honestly did, up to and including the bits where Storm needed to resolve the yakuza bullshit in Wolverine's place, but something about it was just lacking presentation-wise. It didn't have a punch, it felt like a series of short stories where all of them was like, "Here's a small problem, here's Storm resolving it non-violently". Maybe it was repetitive? I feel a little unfair judging it so long after I've actually read it but the impression it left was, "Interesting ideas but doesn't have any tension at all".
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>>79689292
She's supposed to be in her 20's, but I think the new run has de-aged her. Still college age, though.
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>>79689322
How many of these were good though? Demon Knights and All-Star Western get recced a lot, but what about the others? I need some good, modern war comics in my life
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>>79689342
>not reading the reply chain because you just had to be the first person to get an epic post in
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>>79688466
Babs was pretty important as Oracle. She's nowhere near that level now.
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>>79688189

Because if you have a female lead that is actually competent and good at what she does, then Feminists and SJWs complain that said character is just a "man with tits" trope and isn't acting enough like a quirky newbie college kid.
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>>79689324
I was referring more to Herc, not a fan of Hercules either but that wasn't literally by the same writers and I'm mostly just disinterested in that rather than disappointed.
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>>79689383
I'm sorry senpai I misinterpreted the post.
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>>79689381
Sword of Sorcery was enjoyable. The War books were anthologies, and as such, didn't get chances to breathe properly.
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>>79689375
I felt the same way in the Calisto issue, i mean you could say Calisto is more a storm rogue than a x-men rogue, but they way they resolved the problem with the missing kid, i will say it was too fast, but since Calisto lost her power she doesnt prefer so much of a challange
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>>79689297
I think you've only ever read modern Spider-Man.
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There have been Mature Woman Solo books published off and on for decades. They don't sell.
>>79689064
Did you only actually read the first issue, because the series was Storm's Greatest Hits, retreading all those Claremont plots.
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>>79689414
No you just didn't bother to read because you're a lazy idiot.
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>>79688419
>it's sad that people think X
>implying it isn't true

Okay, Reddit.
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>>79688419
>most girls can't to relate to anyone who isn't just like them
>It's sad that some people actually think this
If what he said weren't true, why would female-led titles be necessary at all? The women could just relate to the male heroes.
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>>79689462
Not him but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, stop please.

>>79689466
>They don't sell.

Neither do these though.
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>>79688419
Why can't Marvel and DC catch up to japan in writing females?
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>>79689036
Conan is also greedy, blood thirsty, vnegeful and larcenous, who only does the right thing if he absolutely has to.
He's a magnificent bastard,
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>>79689513
Because they dont use anime style
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>>79689505
>If what he said weren't true, why would female-led titles be necessary at all? The women could just relate to the male heroes.

Because of political reasons, not narrative ones.
The people who make these demands barely read fiction, if at all, hence why the titles talked about in this thread sell like shit.
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>>79689510
Ms. Marvel and Stewart/Tarr Batgirl are hits, though the audience doesn't seem to have much inclination or budget for much of anything else.
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>>79689400
What if she's a complex and nuanced character capable and complicit in both good and evil, and stands truly individuated from the perceived collective of "women" as a general concept and doesn't attempt to represent the average female reader just because they're both girls? That's what I'd like to see. More female characters that aren't made to be pithy role models or representitives of the perceived female collective.

So many of these writers are still stuck on the starting line, seemingly only capable of expressing "see, girls can do stuff too!" but I'm so far past that. I expect to see individual women emerge that differentiate themselves from the rest with a unique style and depth of stpry telling that goes beyond just being a woman or appealing to women as a generalized whole. I want to see women writers that write from their own self interest who's writing finds it's own audience of individuals instead of pandering to a preestablsihed crowd. That's what is needed honestly.
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Which one is the greatest female lead comic in your opinion /co/ ?
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>>79689513
I really don't know, their society as I am led to believe has really regressive attitudes concerning gender, and yet all my favorite female characters come from them.
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>>79689583
>That's what is needed honestly.

Too bad none of that shit sells.
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>>79688189

My guess is marketing told The Big 2 that the female demographic consists mostly of twenty something college freshmen. And since marketing also told them that there were no comic reading women before 2000 they had to make these established characters "relatable".
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>>79689583
the closest thing to the example you said that i can think is Titania from illuminati comics, she is/was a villain who worry about her husband and is happy with him, she struggle because as an ex-villain nobody want to hire her.
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>>79689540
Batgirl is a big name, meaning it has a following no matter what. Even Simone's run was selling, despite being shit.

Ms. Marvel makes it work because she's a teenager, which is the main difference between the shit titles and the ones that sell a lot (in comics and in general): Hunger Games, Buffy and so on have (or started as) teenagers acting like teenagers, Captain Marvel, Spider Woman etc. have adult women acting like teenagers.
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>>79688189
Because women who just got into reading/ writing comics because of the new "lol I'm such a geek XD" trend have terrible taste.
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>>79689513

And you even posted the best girl. Good to know fellow anons with good taste are still around.
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>>79689018
Explain to me out that outlook is supposed to mesh with how the supposedly enlightened revel in "drinking male tears"?
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>>79689625
"Progressive" attitudes means giving everyone a voice and sometimes even the power to change things, meaning more often than not stupid shit by stupid people is going to shape the society.

Manga readers' wishes don't shape their manga titles, unless the author really wants to.
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>>79689625
>has really regressive attitudes concerning gender

not exactly. When it comes it anime it's sexiness sells but women are pretty independent in the workforce there. They are behind on lgbt issues though
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>>79689588
Love & Rockets
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>>79689462

Early Peter was an asshole who thought he was better than everyone and his fuck ups were far from inconsequential or helpful.
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>>79689692
They are all best girls anon.
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>>79689400
I've never heard that complain when it comes to a competent female character.
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>>79689654
>Batgirl is a big name, meaning it has a following no matter what. Even Simone's run was selling, despite being shit.
The creative team change revitalized sales of the book, which was a pretty big deal for DC.

When something's actually proven to work, businesses try to copy it to see if it'll work elsewhere.
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>>79689018
>"I can't cry, BECAUSE I'M A MAN".

That doesn't happen, except maybe in third world countries.

It's just a made-up thing made by feminists so they can pretend to care about males too.
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>>79689400

No if she's competent she's called a mary sue.
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>>79689513
>implying any japanese female characters have a female fanbase
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>>79689222

Good.
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>>79689731
>The creative team change revitalized sales of the book, which was a pretty big deal for DC.

It doesn't change the fact that it sells even with a shit team, meaning sale don't translate to quality in this case.
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>>79689583
>More female characters that aren't made to be pithy role models or representitives of the perceived female collective.

Bit of an aside, and it feeds into the Galbush/token argument, but I've noticed lately how much female readers project onto/lay claim to the actions of females characters. Like, when a male character does something badass, discussion is usually "This character is awesome". But when a female character does something badass, the discussion almost always "Women are awesome".
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>>79689625
>their society as I am led to believe has really regressive attitudes concerning gender

You shouldn't focus too much on what tumblr tells you.
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>>79688820
>There were like 3 war books in nu52
To be fair, Men of War didn't sell poorly because it was a war book. It sold poorly because it was a shitty book that couldn't form a coherent plot and wasted it's fucking concept jumping all over the place.

I'm still kind of mad about that one.
>>
>>79689739
>third world countries
Here in latinoamerica we still have the macho culture, you can see it from the radio, tv show and other things.

And even down here we dont have problem with feminist because we actually worry about how skillful the person is and not their skin/race
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>>79689649
It's why I've always loved evil Queen style villains like how Hela was originally portrayed. It's said to see how so many female writers aren't living up to the opportunity they are given to create unique and definitive women characters in fiction.
>>
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>>79689588
Velvet
>>
>>79689510
>Not him

Sure.

So, in his early issues, Peter was not
>gifted power for no good reason except luck,
Nor was he
>"nerdy" in the modern sense of having odd hobbies that are endearing rather than ostracizing
Nor did he ever
>a blatant political mouthpiece for the writer(s) at some point, preaching their/their bosses' progressive views
and he of course he was never
>endless gawking about women

You're seriously going to pretend those never happened in Spider-Man's early run. You are seriously, no joke, going to pretend none of that applied to Spider-Man when he started out.

The closest one that doesn't fit is fucking up in ways that end up helping, and even then, there was this massive gap between his origin and issue 90 before a fuckup really had some consequences.

I dare you to say Spider-Man didn't get political too.
>>
>>79689807
Again, because the fandom has seen the intrusion of people who aren't there for the narrative, but for political reason. And politics are all about representation and group-thinking.
>>
>>79689230
I know you think that was some kind of clever rejoinder but there's a reason you don't make an entire team of Spider-mans. Once everyone is that guy, no one is; it's just a big group of assholes.
>>
>>79689825
>Here in latinoamerica we still have the macho culture, you can see it from the radio, tv show and other things.

It's what I said, third world countries.

>And even down here we dont have problem with feminist because we actually worry about how skillful the person is and not their skin/race

Brazil isn't of the same opinion.
>>
Some of my favorite female characters are from ASOIAF (show's awful though) and that's probably because all of them have flaws and are pretty different from eachother.

Fuck, I'd love to get more unapologetic turbo villain cunts like Cersei in comics/movies too. Fuck the show for making her more sympathetic, I loved the fact that she was so fucked up in the books. I guess showing her ordering the killing of babies and openly hating other women would trigger SJWs who watch the show.
>>
>>79689789
Well yeah, we're not talking about quality here, we're talking about sales. Turning Babs into a stereotypical Millennial sold more than Gail Simone writing her as if she were still a late 30s Gen Xer, and honestly that was a better decision given her current age.
>>
>>79689739
This is an actual thing in american society.

We see this practiced all the time, with things like how men are expected to suck it up and work through illness or injury when a woman would be encouraged to stay home and recover. Men are expected to be touch and take things that reasonably nobody should be expected to.

Man up, etc.
>>
>>79689727
Not that anon but actually I have heard then when I tried to argue I'd sooner have Cassandra Cain back in the role than CamStew Batgirl.
>>
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>>79689760
They do. Though I mainly see it from other countries besides japan.
>>
>>79689807
It's because of collectivism as an ideology. No woman can be great on her own as an individual. Any greatness she achieves through her nature must be shared amongst the collective. She must be made to represent all women and serve as a model of what they all are capable of. In the end, it ironically just erodes the identity of individual women as a person in and of themselves and makes them blank slates for lesser women to project themselves onto.
>>
Legbeards have gotten a hundred times more annoying than neckbeards in the past few years. Sick of the lot of these greasy fuckers
>>
>>79689707
>They are behind on lgbt issues though
Yet their gay characters are actually well done.
>>
>>79689847
>Sure.
You're a retard.

>You're seriously going to pretend those never happened in Spider-Man's early run

Yes. Peter's attitude and hobbies got him ostracized and he fucked up in more ways than breaking his gf's neck (especially at work and school).
Even as a political mouthpiece he was less intrusive and recurring as today's characters.

Now please, stop shitposting and go away.
>>
>>79689904
>like how men are expected to suck it up and work through illness or injury
>Haven't taken a day off from work in 2 years

I just never feel bad enough to warrant staying home.
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>>79689882
which is weird, sure they have a lot of white people but places like Argentina or Uruguay dont have notorious problem with feminist so race isnt a explanation.

It doesnt work that the current president is a leftist.
>>
>>79689954
This, for sure.

Homosexual characters in anime and manga are handled much better in western media.

More like actual people, where their sexual preference isn't their entire identity and a selling point.
>>
>>79688779
>It's reached the point where if someone were to write a genuine superhero story built upon classic archetypes with no sense of irony or subversion, it would actually in a weird way be totally subversive to the current status quo
>>
>>79689275
>Fuck, I think I just invented a new female lead...Time Bomb, you never know when she'll go off.
TICK TICK BOOM!
>>
>>79689583
>What if she's a complex and nuanced character capable and complicit in both good and evil, and stands truly individuated from the perceived collective of "women" as a general concept and doesn't attempt to represent the average female reader just because they're both girls?
Then she'll get pigeonholed into an easy to define category (or better said, trope) because complexity is scary and difficult to tackle and in depth character analysis and research takes time away from being mad and fighting for "justice".
>>
>>79689904
Yes but that mentality is caused by feminism itself nowadays.
>>
>>79689968
Good for you? I don't know what you want me to say.
>>
>>79689902
>Well yeah, we're not talking about quality here, we're talking about sales

Then we go back to what I said earlier: the title would sell regardless of anything, it can't be hold as an example in this discussion.
>>
>>79690007
That mentality has persisted for generations for the same reasons. It has nothing to do with feminism, that's just been a part of our culture for a looooooong time.
>>
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>>79690023
I was just commenting
>>
>>79689954
>Yet their gay characters are actually well done.
not really no. Queer characters in japan are portrayed as sexual deviants a lot and dress weird.
>>
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>>79689707
>They are behind on lgbt issues though
Which I found weird considering that gay men have their own manga mags their.
>>
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>>79689588
[Unsolicited comments about neets]
>>
>>79689890
It's why I've immersed myself in Greek mythology. There are so many powerful and unique female figures throughout the mythological canon because the Greeks viewed women as capable of being powerful and dangerous individuals capable of both sin and virtue.
>>
>>79690072
Not him, but I don't think you are very familiar with a lot of anime and manga then.
>>
>>79690072
Seems pretty accurate.
>>
>>79690044
I didn't say feminism created it, I said it helps to perpetuate it, despite feminists claiming the contrary.
>>
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>>79689988

Like people? More like motherfucking heroes
>>
>>79690036
Sure it does. Popular title gets even more popular when main character becomes a generation stereotype, ergo let's give these traits to as many young women as we can so they too can potentially get a sales boost.
>>
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>>79689697
One's a sociological concept, the other is an internet meme.

They don't have to mesh because they don't actually exist in the same fucking sphere of each other.
>>
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>>79690049
Whatever floats your boat, mang
>>
fuck, this >>79690095
was meant to>>79690049
>>
>>79690072
See this is funny to me because Japanese media acknowledged that bara was a thing way before the west did.
>>
>>79690096
Been meaning to do the same. Got Bulfinch's Mythology on my reading list.
>>
>>79690135
>>79690136
nice
>>
>>79689739
>That doesn't happen, except maybe in third world countries.
That's not a good thing.
>>
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>>79690135
>>79690136
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOT
>>
>>79690072
Nobody wants to read about plain, average people anon
>>
>>79690116
You are scapegoating its existence today on modern feminism, which is retarded. Its been a known issue that results from cultural influences since before modern psycho feminism had anything close to the platform it has now.

I don't like feminist crazies either, but lets not use them as a boogeyman.
>>
>>79690072

So you are basically saying they portray them correctly? Ive accidentally been to a gay club, and i dunno man. They are pretty sexually deviant and flamboyant.

Thank god i was there with a friend who was more attractive than i was apparently and i managed to sneak out a virgin.
>>
>>79690135
>One's a sociological concept, the other is an internet meme.
I don''t think they're as separate as you claim given that, just as an example, the praise that FemThor got in articles wasn't that the book was good, but that it was going to piss off nerds.
Or hell, there's some late night talk show starting on TBS, and rather than going on about how it's going to be entertaining all the adds are set into overdrive about how Samantha Bee is going to tear down the boys club and ruffle feathers and take on comic book nerds.

Polarization has turned the sociological concept INTO a meme.
>>
>>79690136
>>79690135
>Literally one post apart on the whole board
>Same image
You can't get any more in sync than this.
>>
>Japanese media is ahead on LGBT issues

Yeah but that's what you get when you have an industry where authors can put their stuff out more easily. It'd be like equating our webcomics to American society. In the end, those things are made by the artists of that community and artists tend to lean a particular way on social issues that's not shared by everyone else.
>>
>>79690135
>One's a sociological concept, the other is an internet meme.

It's also a political movement, the members or which created and fuel the internet meme.
Now go back to tumblr.
>>
>>79690135
>>79690136
>>
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>>79690213
>>
>>79690201
>I don''t think they're as separate as you claim given that, just as an example, the praise that FemThor got in articles wasn't that the book was good, but that it was going to piss off nerds.
I'm not seeing the connection at all.

"Toxic masculinity" is a sociological concept.

Whatever you're talking about is some internet topic made for clickbait.

I have no idea why you keep equating the two.
>>
>>79690176
>You are scapegoating its existence today on modern feminism, which is retarded.

No, I didn't say it wouldn't exists without feminism. Nevertheless, feminism ensures its existence.

Are you really going to pretend that feminists aren't the first to mock men who cry, feel sad and anything in between?
>>
>>79690212
>It's also a political movemen
"Toxic masculinity" is a political movement? Are you retarded?
>>
>>79690239
>"Toxic masculinity" is a sociological concept.
How is that concept expressed. In part, through the internet meme.
>>
>>79688189
Many female led books are like this BECAUSE there were not many like it before (especially in the eyes of the public).

DC and Marvel, DC and just "comics" in particular, had a problem with being "for guys" and being "grimdark". By making it lighter and giving them female solos, DC and Marvel are screaming "hey we have comics for female readers too!"

It's just a new trend.

You had one or two books, let's say in this case Ms Marvel and Batgirl, that proved very popular with casuals. Then you had copycats like Spider Woman getting a new costume and trying to be as successful and failing.
For some characters it works or is understandable. Kamala is a teenage girl, Batgirl is trying to make her be like what casuals think Batgirl is (a la BTAS, The Batman, etc), and Starfire is making her more like the cartoon Starfire. For others like Spider Woman it simply doesn't work. If they did it to Catwoman or Batwoman, it simply wouldn't work.

Within the next 2-3 years most of the cute will gradually lessen due to backlash and they'll try to branch out into other tones.
>>
>>79690099
>Not him, but I don't think you are very familiar with a lot of anime and manga then
I am. I don't think you are at all.
>>
>>79690264
I meant it's an idea that's part of a political movement.
The idea of "toxic masculinity" doesn't exist outside of feminism and related socialist movements.
>>
>>79690261

You are trying to put its existence today squarely on feminism.

>Yes but that mentality is caused by feminism itself nowadays.

>That doesn't happen, except maybe in third world countries.

>It's just a made-up thing made by feminists so they can pretend to care about males too.

>Are you really going to pretend that feminists aren't the first to mock men who cry, feel sad and anything in between?


It's usually other men who look down on men displaying socially determined signs of weakness.
>>
>>79690277
>If they did it to Catwoman or Batwoman, it simply wouldn't work.
They did it to Thor.
>>
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>>79690272
Why does that matter to you?
The word "feminism" starts with the letter "F". Is suddenly the letter "F" terrible? That's what you sound like. Some group abusing or miscommunicating with a concept doesn't invalidate the concept.
>>
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>>79689697
You see, feminists just pretend that never happens.
>>
>>79690282
>No u!

Okay, which homosexual characters from japanese media are you talking about?
>>
>>79690306
>For SOME characters it works or is understandable
And Thor isn't one of them.
>>
>>79690297
>I meant it's an idea that's part of a political movement.
That would only matter if the idea existed from within the movement and serves ONLY to push the movement, which it doesn't, it's a valid sociological observation made outside the scope of some push for rights.
>>
>>79690305
>It's usually other men who look down on men displaying socially determined signs of weakness.
Not even the guy you're arguing with but it's everybody. Women are just as complicit and eager to do it. Heck during that thing which must not be named, it wasn't us that got raided, it was wizardchan, the site of sadsacks with a suicide helpline in the banner.
>>
>>79690309
It does when the concept's original meaning is lost forever. That is why gay doesn't mean 'happy' anymore.
>>
>>79688779
>It's reached the point where if someone were to write a genuine superhero story built upon classic archetypes with no sense of irony or subversion, it would actually in a weird way be totally subversive to the current status quo
Comics industry:Hypercrisis
>>
>>79690154
The play Medea by Euripides is one of my favorite of all the Greek Tragedies I've read. She's such a complex character with a sweeping character arc that ends with her arising as one of the most definitive villains in Greek mythological canon. She's the archetype for the wicked witch figure we've seen throughout literature, but she still stand above all that came after her as the most interesting
>>
>>79690305
>You are trying to put its existence today squarely on feminism.

Feminism is its major perpetrator.

>It's usually other men who look down on men displaying socially determined signs of weakness.

Bullshit.
>>
>>79690343
Ergo, societal issue, not just, as he claims, a made up thing by feminists that doesn't even happen.
>>
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LEL
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>>79690344
>It does when the concept's original meaning is lost forever.
Good thing it's not? Since this whole conversation started WITH the concept's original meaning?

You're inventing problems to complain about.
>>
>>79690337
>which it doesn't,
It does. Nobody outside of your circlejerk takes that idea seriously.
Again, go back to tumblr.
>>
>>79690166
>1. Please god don't let her date a fat, spineless pussy like me.
>>
>>79690309
You're making it too tempting to invoke Godwin's law with that one, so I'll just say that the chief proponents of a concept determine its definitions and enactments, and thus, its value.
>>
>>79690365
Right, so when your boss or coworkers give you shit for wanting to stay home while sick or not "manning up" and pushing through intolerable bullshit it's because some shadow feminist has burrowed in to their brains and is controlling him like a meat puppet.

Got it.
>>
>>79688336
Source or strawman tbqh famalam.
>>
>>79690369
>a made up thing by feminists that doesn't even happen.

I may have exagerated but it's still a problem feminists perpetuates and at the same time claim to fight against to show how "equal" they are.
>>
>>79690369
And I'm not going to care which factory made the rope if I'm being lynched. In this analogy the social concept is the rope and the lynch mob is the people using it.
>>
>>79690423
>Right, so when your boss or coworkers give you shit for wanting to stay home while sick or not "manning up" and pushing through intolerable bullshit it's because some shadow feminist has burrowed in to their brains and is controlling him like a meat puppet.

Have you any fact to prove this is a common behavior nowadays in first-world countries?
>>
>>79690423
What if his boss and coworkers are almost all women?
>>
>>79688322
>Kamala gets a pass because she's an ACTUAL TEENAGER.

and not just a teenager, a rational smart teenager with problems and flaws.
>>
>>79688189
>Trying to please feminists

Joss Whedon learned the hard way
>>
>>79690423
Where the fuck do you work?
>>
>>79690324
Nico and tsukiyama from TG
That Leeron from TTGL
Kuroko from Raildex.

Are there exceptions? Of course such as characters done by Ikuhara. But the ones I listed are much more popular than ones done correctly in japanese media.
>>
>>79690491
Not him, but being a woman doesn't mean you are also a batshit feminist.

That's an extreme stretch.
>>
>>79688991
I don't disagree with your point.

Only that you used Conan as an example.
>>
>>79690524
She's a feminist, she doesnt' work.
>>
>>79688189
I hope that person has never complained about guys grilling women for being a "fake geek girl" or whatever and telling women to get out of the hobby.

It would be maximum hypocrisy to do that and then complain about books that clearly aren't for you. Things like that, Starfire and Batgirl especially, are meant for more casual fans who won't know much more than how they are on the cartoons or don't want tons of continuity confusing them.
>>
>>79690435
SJWs are by and large middle-class suburban white people with too much money and time in their hands. The truly oppressed minorities out there obviously wouldn't have the time to spend their whole days getting angry on twitter, getting angry on tumblr, or writing down clickbait articles on the mary sue/kotaku/cracked about why video games don't pander to them enough.
>>
>>79689513
In surprise that in recent years, shonen manga girls are becoming more useful and character-driven. And in a country that is just slowly coming out of its strict gender roles.
>>
>>79690306
Not really? I mean, the new direction isn't good, but Whor isn't quirky or teenagery or whatever, and the adventures still have some weight to them.
>>
>>79690571
>And in a country that is just slowly coming out of its strict gender roles.
>I know all about Japan thanks to tumblr.
>>
>"I want more female led comic books"
>"I want more women to like comic books"
>"But I don't want comic books that a written in a way that women generally find appealing"

????????????
>>
>>79690390
>Nobody outside of your circlejerk takes that idea seriously.
I'm not taking that from someone who ends every other post in the most circlejerking way possible. "Buhh go back to some other website because you disagree with me, tumblr, reddit, deviantart buhhhhh" grow a spine.

>>79690398
>so I'll just say that the chief proponents of a concept determine its definitions and enactments
So why are you ignoring sociological professors? Is it because you personally never listen to them and instead focus your internet attention to teenage internet girls on the internet?

That's your problem.
>>
>>79690499
>rational
>follows Mohammed as the prophet of God
>>
>>79690569
I counted 8. Maybe 9 if one guy is just REALLY light skinned.
>>
>>79689625
They're not yet at the level of Western pandering to their fans. They acknowledge and respond to their supporters through extra content on the characters instead of a quirky new superheroine who is JUST LIKE YOU, GURLS.

When you're not constantly wringing your hands in worry of what the feminist icons might say of your work, you can experiment more with the roles, and even if some girls can often fall back on "feminine support" tropes, you flesh out the character within that role and make her valuable in her own way, instead of trying to twist her into a stronk indupundent womyn. Trying to appease all criticism on gender issues leads you to having the same boring female leads, whereas not caring about gender issues gives you more flexibility on where you're willing to take a character.

I guess this post can sound a bit like "muh SJWs are to blame", but I really do think comics are a lot more influenced by these topics in the media than shonen ever is (moreso when you consider all the competition in the market, can't go appealing to niches when you're trying to claw your way to the top).
>>
>>79690524
Not him, but I see this sort of stuff a lot at our electrical engineering company.

Male employees are expected to work through everything short of lawsuit inducing injury, and if they refuse often wind up being reprimanded as a no show.

Female employees get the flu and disappear for 9 days without question.

It was like that even when I worked retail years ago. Female employees who called in sick got way more of a pass than male employees.

I remember one time when we had this insane overnight project where the employees would have to work in rotation outside in almost zero degree weather the supervisor made an asmatic male employee take 5x as many shifts as a female engineer on the team, literally to the point where he had some asthma fuck up and had to be rushed off the job site, and called the guy a pussy the next day.
>>
>>79690626
>So why are you ignoring sociological professors?
You're the one claiming I am. I'm not. The supposed "teenage internet girls on the internet" have to get their initial indoctrination from somewhere, and college is the breeding ground for a lot of these things.
>>
>>79690626
>because you disagree with me

No, because you spout bullshit as fact thinking everyone else is just as insane and will believe even a word of what you say.
It's no use, you're only wasting your time, nobody is that crazy here.
>>
>>79690613
They want what we had, but with girls I think?
>>
>>79689588
Ms.marvel with Kamala probably
>>
>>79689588
Empowered.
>>
>>79690534
How about sailor neptune and uranus, Utena and Anthy, Bulat from akame ga kill, jesus there are entire genres of manga focused on LGBT stuff that handles it exceptionally well.
>>
>>79690669
That sounds like work-related abuse. I guess it cannot be reported for fear of retaliation?
>>
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>>79688322
>>79688365
>Kamala gets a past because I want to fuck her
Fixed

she's just as bad
>>
>>79690746

But I thought she wanted more women to read comic books?
>>
>>79690630

Anon, all sand-kike religions are equally shit.
>>
>>79690928
Most people don't have the luxury of risking their job to fight stuff like that, and who do you bring it up to?

>HR, HR! They told me I couldn't stay home cause I was sick!
>Yeah, and? Did you have a doctor's note saying you were unable to work?
>No, but Julie was allowed to-
>This is childish etc etc a nonissue etc etc investigated ourselves and found us guilty of no wrongdoing etc.

Then it gets back to you by the company seeing you as a troublemaker.

Asthma guy did quit after that shit, as he should of, cause that was extreme bullshit.
>>
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>>79689904
>working at target a year ago
>Step-dad I'm very close to is killed by a semitruck making an illegal turn onto a road that leads to a highway
>killed instantly
>find out from a local cop who was tasked with delivering the news
>had to call my mother and tell her
>that was on Thursday, on Sunday I had work again, too stubborn to call out without trying first, that day was customer service
>unfortunately it was mid January, so in between "people", if you could call people so absorbed in pettiness they'll raise their voice over a penny difference: people, I was left with my thoughts at the counter
>not a good time, especially having to pretend their "problems" were remotely close to actual problems
>next day cashiering, even more unpleasant, because now hundreds of people are asking how I'm doing, some finishing the question with how good their day is
>then the bad day, Wednesday
>up till 45 minutes before clock out, it was ok, but then a guy comes over.
>asks how I'm doing, sheepishly say I'm ok
>he asks if I'm sure, he can tell I'm not
>admit I'm not ok, he asks if it's trouble at home
>hit with an emotional train, destroyed the emotional barriers I put up
>"y-yeah you could say that" as I fight back tears
>this guy not only stopped pushing, he comforted me saying it'd get better over time.
>that got me pretty square in the heart, again
>after work I talked to the HR woman, she says I'm off the schedule, for two weeks of unpaid bereavement
>that was Wednesday, skip to Sunday, day five of the time off
>target called asking why I'm not there for my shift
>explain the situation sternly, trying not to yell or hang up
>"oh, ok...can you come in for your shift tomorrow?"
>about to say no when:
>"because we're really understaffed this week and it'd be great if you could help"
I fell for it, I was too weak in the head.
It was an exaggeration, only one 45 min span of time was no one else able to help ring.
I got nothing out of that. It was expected.
I hate them.
>>
>>79689707
>They are behind on lgbt issues though
Japan has the exact right idea about lgbtasdwqwoasbinh issues: "Fuck off faggots"
>>
>>79691126
Based moonies
>>
>>79691057
>Did you have a doctor's note saying you were unable to work?
>>No

But, asthma guy should've had one. That's like Day One shit right there.
>>
>>79689588
Mystique was pretty good.
>>
>>79691072
Here's one of my favorites

>Dad gets shoulder reconstruction done following a workplace injury
>A few hours after surgery a nurse comes in and wakes him up and puts the phone to his head
>It's his boss, demanding he get up and get in a conference call with some clients regarding a project
>Tells him he needs to be in the office tomorrow now that this "shoulder bullshit" is done.
>Dad's just drooling on morphine

I don't know if you've ever seen someone with a rotator cuff surgery done, but they are fucked for like 4 days afterwards and on morphine drip.

Naw, fuck it, get your ass to work, ya pussy.
>>
>>79691161
He did, they were aware of his condition and he told them he'd be fine if they worked it in shifts like they were supposed to.

Welcome to workplace double standards. Men are supposed to do hard stuff without complaining, ever, women are supposed to be coddled, but given equal credit when the job is done.
>>
>>79691072
And I didn't just come in that one day. Oh no, I never went back on the time off, as if the fucking shits would've let me without threatening legal action. If that store burned down empty, I'd rush over instantly to dance on the ashes. Oh yeah...
Before I was about to quit in May a new person started doing scheduling and managing all that, some woman from corporate.
She starts enforcing a shit ton of rules to the letter, including the retarded ones that are infeasible for a store as busy as ours, such as my FAVORITE little gems
>instead of being lenient with the people who drive in from over 45-60 minutes away, they'll be held to the same standard as the guy who lives within walking distance
A lot worse in context, people were getting write ups for being 5 minutes off, despite coming during commute hours from 30-40 miles away. Myself included.
>cart attendants must check bathrooms ever 60 minutes on the 1/2 hour mark of each hour, no matter what
On a weekend day, it can take 20-30 minutes to do one two-bathroom check, and carts pile up outside, while the ones inside dissappear. I got shit for it the first time, but reminded them "I was only following the new rules". I could tell that struck a chord in a good way, but it didn't change shit.
Fucking cunt still doing this shit as of this last fall. Store ain't getting better, the employees are somehow more broken down than ever. May god have mercy on their souls.
>>
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>>79691425
All this talk of shitty jobs makes me really sad for when I might have to get a new one. I love the place I'm working at.
>>
>>79691226

Wow you guys work at shitty places.

If something happens at our company, if you have the doctors papers, you can take leave. Ofc if we know there is nothing wrong with you or that even if you asked for leave, and something springs up we will call you and ask you if you can hop in and help out, but its not a big deal if you cant.

>work from 7-16
>normal day, slow day in our burnish field because winter
>most people on vacation leave
>oh shit .gov sponsored job springs up
>notified suddenly, no preparation time
>severely understaffed
>work needs to be done over weekend even deep into the night breaking severall laws (we get an ok for it)
>drum up workers who took leave
>some cant show, some do show up
>noone fucking complains and we get the job done

I dunno why so many people are pussies at work. If you don't do your job, someone else will have too. And if you take sudden leave someone will have to do double work. Im not saying you literally have to walk out of surgery into work, but fuck at least give a proper stern explanation and stand your ground.
>>
>>79690166

That poor kid is going to be pregnant before she's 16.
>>
>>79689625
>their society as I am led to believe has really regressive attitudes concerning gender
Why do you think this makes their characters worse? If your entire country thinks all women are worthless whores you can say what you like about them and nobody will get angry if you make them the butt of fun. It's pedestalizing women as some sort of holy creature that kills female characters in narratives.
>>
>thread in auto sage

Nice, janitors.
>>
>>79691599
Having managed employees, if you say you have the flu or something contagious I don't need any more explanation.

I'd much rather have people cover for one today than three tomorrow.
>>
>thread's on auto sage
>>
>>79691687
>>79691710
you're noticing this now?
>>
>>79691674
>It's pedestalizing women as some sort of holy creature that kills female characters in narratives.

Reminds me of when people talk about Dave Sim's supposed hatred of women, while the female characters in Cerebus were fully fleshed out and well rounded.
>>
>yfw Chuck Dixon, a right-wing heterosexual male, is still the best Batgirl and Black Canary writer
>>
>>79691740
I suspected it, but seeing page 8 kinda confirms it.
>>
>>79691759
Oops, forgot to mention he's white too.
>>
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>>79691759
>mfw Dixon BoP run had more homosexual undertone than Simone run
>>
>>79691531
I know the feel. Only apply at same or higher venues. It's a safer bet for a job you won't hate. Worked for me.
>>79691425
Forgot to add this
>a few months before the accident my stepdad was shopping around for granite for some clients (he's a...god damn it, was a contractor)
>the place had illegally poor straps on the granite, one snaps free and lands on, and shatters, his right ankle.
>the degenerate well-off shit-fucks he was working for get all pissy a few weeks later that he hasn't finished the job, despite him stubbornly going and trying to continue with help, WITH A SHATTERED ANKLE
>threaten some kind of something, but he easily pointed out how involving a court would be a loss for them
>he died just as a few interested clients were contacting him in the weeks prior
I hope the prissy little shits suffer a similar injury to one of their major joints, and wallow in the cruel ironies of life. It's what they deserve, at least.
These three posts really got my blood flowing, I'll have to stop. G'Night
>>
>>79691700

Pretty much. But damn this new year was pretty eventfull at our place for having more than 50% of people on leave. Broken arm, surgery in hand, and a guy fucked up his back.

Shit happens, but people arent machines.
>>
>>79690827
>How about sailor neptune and uranus, Utena and Anthy
>Of course such as characters done by Ikuhara

I mentioned him for this reason
>>
>>79691815
Yeah, isn't it great? The guy doesn't like homosexuality, but he doesn't try to push his agenda like other rightwing writers do; and if he's told to give the book some homo undertone, he will do so. THis is what a real professional is like, anon.
>>
>>79691889
Meanwhile, in the current industry if a writer has an opposing political opinion to you, you continuously lose your shit and try to get him blacklisted then throw a hissy fit when you get ignored
>>
>>79691882
http://www.anime-planet.com/characters/tags/gay?page=1

Here's an archive of gay characters.
Just male gay characters even.

The majority by far don't fit your argument of how they are typically portrayed.
>>
>>79691889
Wasn't Dixo a conservative who told his artists to not give homosexual undertones to the book but somehow it came out worst?. I remember reading something like that
>>
>>79692018
He's a conservative, yes.
>not give homosexual undertones to an all-girls team book
A bit naive, also.
>>
>>79690166
>daughter inherited her dad's face pretty straight-up
I don't think you need to make any rules, buddy.
>>
Man, I miss comic books.
>>
>>79692194
You should check out Rachel Rising.
>>
>>79692264
Terry Moore is a feminist.
>>
Well it fun while it lasted.
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