>>79686785 I just love the fact that absolutely NO ONE of those who immediately went to complain on twitter said a single word about the quality of Nicieza's writing (which, let's face it, could easily be replaced by a janitor's)
It was all "he so nice what a nice guy, the nicest guy in the biz" and all that shit - I fucking loathe that mindset. So many aggresively mediocre to downright shit "creators" got in the business by being "nice guys", fucking hell.
>>79687010 This pretty much The comics world has a historic love of shafting artists when it comes to giving them due credit for their work. Kind of like how everyone still believes Spider-Man was good because of Stan Lee and Neil Gaiman created Angela
>Kirby is prickly, though, about sharing creator credit on _____ with Stan Lee, who wrote the script for the character's first appearance, based on Mr. Kirby's story. As plotter, penciler and inker of __________ at the time of _____'s inception, Mr. Kirby said he did "all the heavy lifting."
>>79687300 Except Stan Lee didn't even scrip the issues, he'd just say "get me an issue where they fight in the ocean". Liefeld is just a shitty artists that drew some shitty scripts. Neither of these two clowns should get credit.
>>79686988 The quality of his writing is immaterial. This is Bob Kane shit on Liefeld's part - he is straight up claiming full creative rights. If he ever feels that he's not getting enough money from whatever adaptations, he'll sue the shit out of Nicieza just because he can.
>>79686785 Definitely. He's saying he straight up doesn't accept that the writers he was assigned were anything but gophers and the books they produced together sold and characters they created endured long after they left because of him.
>>79687622 >This is Bob Kane shit on Liefeld's part - he is straight up claiming full creative rights. If he ever feels that he's not getting enough money from whatever adaptations, he'll sue the shit out of Nicieza just because he can. Your claims have zero basis in reality because Liefeld fought specifically to get BOTH their names into the movie's credits
>>79687300 Neil Gaiman did create Angela. That was settled by the courts. What was at issue was whether he'd been working for hire and his creations would belong to MacFarlane - which was also not the case, as Image wasn't set up for that and the contracts they used to hand out (but presumably don't any more) said that Gaiman owned his own creations.
>>79687316 >Lisa R. Kirby, Neal L. Kirby, Susan M. Kirby, Barbara J. Kirby goes in all fields
>>79687607 The other guy's right, Stan produced plot outlines ahead of the artists starting work. Even the artists admit this. He then went back over the finished work and - even if it deviated from what he'd asked for - wrote the words in instead of sending it back and telling them they wouldn't get paid unless they turned in what he'd ordered, which was what would have happened anywhere else.
>>79687620 Plotting is thinking up broad lines of where things go on this turn and where they go on that turn. By that definition, Lee can very loosely be called a co-plotter as it was him who asked "this issue to take place at the stadium". But - that's also what 99% of modern editors do and they don't get co-plotter credit, so.
Scripting is actually fleshing out every scene, not just the dialogue, but the action and the way it all connects in little things.
Writing dialogue is just that, dialogue. Lee is not that good of a dialogue writer either.
stealing credit from the writers and comparing them to gophers or janitors. fraud (specifically fraud on the court) embezzlement not paying his talent failure to pay for properties he licensed. straddles the line between original character do not steal and blatant copyright infringement.
>>79687652 Except if you read his own words, he's clearly saying Nicieza had little to do with the creation of Deadpool, and there's no way he would ever be listened to one way or the other about credits - Nicieza either met the criteria or he didn't, and that would all be determined by what the contracts said, not what some guy who happens to have signed one of them said.
So what Liefeld is saying is actually at odds with reality because he's claiming that "Nicieza had nothing much to do with creating Deadpool, and I had to fight to get him a credit". He's painting himself as the senior partner, and like most of his paintings it's an unrealistic scribble with a gradient background.
>>79687667 You think Bob Kane started out shitting on Bill Finger? He starts with the "Nicieza did nothing" stories now and in a couple of years when the next adaptation comes he'll be saying "I did it all, people have always said I did" and he'll point to what you're supposed to remember him saying this time as evidence.
It's weak spin, but that's what it is. He has absolutely no reason not to credit his writer, since his publisher at the time didn't think Rob was capable of writing a title and felt the need to babysit him.
>>79687769 He was fine for Thor and improved immensely on the FF in the last half. I find all his Spideman way too text heavy though. His real genius was promotion, though. Read old FF letters pages; it's hard not to like the guy, he's a charming bastard.
>>79687838 >"Nicieza had nothing much to do with creating Deadpool, and I had to fight to get him a credit" You should work on your reading comprehension friend. I have better se of my time than to explain to you what the fucking text said and generally "defending" fucking Liefeld.
Neither of their names were included at the end. Liefeld noticed that and asked the director to do something about it. He didn't ask for his name alone, he asked for both their names, no fuss. Before get into more dumb shit, that happened way before this interview. Stupid monkey cunt.
Don't even think abot replying to me before you get all this information into you thick ass faggot skull and process it fucking properly, you enormous leak of an ass milk. Jesus.
>>79688989 I agree to a point, but he actually congratulatd Gaimen on the court win and was pretty classy about the loss. I think it was more a difference of opinion on the importance of the artist vs the importance of the writer. He had public debates with PAD. Over that shit, even.,
>>79687705 >Neil Gaiman did create Angela. Aside from designing her visual appearance and figuring out where she fits in the Spawn universe and her relationship with him and pretty much everything else that makes her a character
Nicieza didnt create him he filled in the fucking word balloons. Liefeld designed the character and plotted the story but desu it is joe casey who made deadpool a big enough character to get a movie, just like miller for batman.
>>79692253 It comes off as though he was diminishing Nicieza completely, even though I get why he said it the way he did it.
Nicieza is very thankful to Rob, though; there was a Wizard interview back in the 90's where he was asked about his huge house, if it was "the house that X-Men built". Nicieza said it's really "the house that Rob Liefeld built."
>>79692382 I think this wasn't new for Liefeld, in the 90's there was an ongoing debate between him and PAD over who created Cable. Liefeld felt that he was creator of Cable and that if anyone should be credited as co-creator it should be Bob Harras because he was the one who gave the directive to make a leader for the New Mutants.
PAD took offense at this because he felt Liefeld was diminishing Louise Simonson's role. He was also taking offense to Todd McFarlane's claim that he was the sole creator of Venom at the time, too. And it got into a huge debate which also ended up leading to PAD taking a shot at Liefeld by bringing up the swipes/homages that Liefeld did (few people know this, but the reason PAD brought the swipes up wasn't because he had an issue with swiping, he had an issue with Liefeld demanding credit for himself but not others. It wasn't like he was out to expose Greg Land or other swipers or something, he was trying to use it against Liefeld.) Liefeld I think feels that he did do the bulk of the work on creating Cable and by extension Deadpool, though.
>>79692493 >I think a big point is that Liefeld Deadpool is not the Deadpool that became a hit
No, it was a hit back when it was out, the same way Liefeld was popular back in the early 90's. Remember that the Image guys used to sell really well.
Now, Joe Kelly, Ed McGuinness and others gave the character his fan longevity, though. I think if not for them then Deadpool would've been a temporary hit then sidelined during the rest of the 90's only to be brought back in the 00's to be killed off.
>>79686785 Yes, Rob Liefield is a piece of shit hack and wants to CASH IN on the Deadpool's pending success and explosion in exposure even more than faggot Waypool and Hot-Topic have done. He still can't draw feet and that article's bullshit justification of his horrible anatomy is just as retarded "hurdur people don't have imaginations"
>>79692561 Wait, correction on this, PAD did have an issue with swiping, in which an artist takes from a bunch of sources and it doesn't look consistent. So yes, in that way he would have an issue with Greg Land.
What he didn't have a problem with was artists copying poses because it was commonplace (though he does point out if a writer did something similar, it'd be plagarism).
But he mainly brought it up to take a shot at Liefeld waiting to claim most if not all the credit for Cable.
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the shown content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows their content, archived. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.
If a post contains personal/copyrighted/illegal content, then use the post's [Report] link! If a post is not removed within 24h contact me at firstname.lastname@example.org with the post's information.