Rob Liefield, asshole or not?

Not an asshole, but /co/ will say different on account of their hivemind hateboner for the guy.

>>79686785
Fabian Nicieza confirmed all is okay between him and Rob, though.

It's a pretty cunty thing to say but Nicieza is cool with it for whatever reason

Rob is a shit artist these days but he's a based creator and a based 'comics celebrity'. No Rob, no Image. I love Image comics.

I thought Marvel was working with him only because he was meeting the deadlines. He wasn't.

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>>79686785
I just love the fact that absolutely NO ONE of those who immediately went to complain on twitter said a single word about the quality of Nicieza's writing (which, let's face it, could easily be replaced by a janitor's)

It was all "he so nice what a nice guy, the nicest guy in the biz" and all that shit - I fucking loathe that mindset. So many aggresively mediocre to downright shit "creators" got in the business by being "nice guys", fucking hell.

He's got a really hostile way of putting it, but he's right that he did more than half the work of creating Deadpool.
He's totally deserving of criticism for his choice of words, if nothing else.

>>79686785
He is an asshole and a very stupid person but /co/ will gladly defend him and memepost that "he's a nice guy".

>>79686851
Because Rob apparently fought for him to recieve credit/payment for the movie

>>79686988
Nicieza isn't that bad. He's not great either, he's just part of that legion of mediocre and forgettable capeshit writers.

>>79687010
This pretty much
The comics world has a historic love of shafting artists when it comes to giving them due credit for their work. Kind of like how everyone still believes Spider-Man was good because of Stan Lee and Neil Gaiman created Angela

>Kirby is prickly, though, about sharing creator credit on _____ with Stan Lee, who wrote the script for the character's first appearance, based on Mr. Kirby's story. As plotter, penciler and inker of __________ at the time of _____'s inception, Mr. Kirby said he did "all the heavy lifting."

>>79686988
According to Erik Larson to do well in the business you need to be 2 out of 3

Fast
Good
Nice

I think too many get by on fast and nice

>>79687300
Except Stan Lee didn't even scrip the issues, he'd just say "get me an issue where they fight in the ocean". Liefeld is just a shitty artists that drew some shitty scripts. Neither of these two clowns should get credit.

>>79687381
Stan Lee was the scripter. "Scripting" is writing the dialogue in the word bubbles.

>>79687300
The only exception being Bob Kane, who shafted Bill Finger big time thanks to underhanded tactics at DC.

>>79687484
No, scripting means scripting the scenes.

>>79687607
No, that's plotting.

>>79686988
The quality of his writing is immaterial. This is Bob Kane shit on Liefeld's part - he is straight up claiming full creative rights. If he ever feels that he's not getting enough money from whatever adaptations, he'll sue the shit out of Nicieza just because he can.

>>79686785
Definitely. He's saying he straight up doesn't accept that the writers he was assigned were anything but gophers and the books they produced together sold and characters they created endured long after they left because of him.

Big words from a man who can't draw.

>>79687622
>This is Bob Kane shit on Liefeld's part - he is straight up claiming full creative rights. If he ever feels that he's not getting enough money from whatever adaptations, he'll sue the shit out of Nicieza just because he can.
Your claims have zero basis in reality because Liefeld fought specifically to get BOTH their names into the movie's credits

>>79687622
Agreed, Liefeld is definitely going to sue Nicieza. Also, Liefeld will kick orphans and murder anyone he doesn't like. I feel it in my gut so it must be true.

>>79687300
Neil Gaiman did create Angela. That was settled by the courts. What was at issue was whether he'd been working for hire and his creations would belong to MacFarlane - which was also not the case, as Image wasn't set up for that and the contracts they used to hand out (but presumably don't any more) said that Gaiman owned his own creations.

>>79687316
>Lisa R. Kirby, Neal L. Kirby, Susan M. Kirby, Barbara J. Kirby goes in all fields

>>79687607
The other guy's right, Stan produced plot outlines ahead of the artists starting work. Even the artists admit this. He then went back over the finished work and - even if it deviated from what he'd asked for - wrote the words in instead of sending it back and telling them they wouldn't get paid unless they turned in what he'd ordered, which was what would have happened anywhere else.

>>79687607
Not in comics. Plotting comes first in the Marvel Method after the issue is completed in pencils then it's scripted

>>79687620
Plotting is thinking up broad lines of where things go on this turn and where they go on that turn. By that definition, Lee can very loosely be called a co-plotter as it was him who asked "this issue to take place at the stadium". But - that's also what 99% of modern editors do and they don't get co-plotter credit, so.

Scripting is actually fleshing out every scene, not just the dialogue, but the action and the way it all connects in little things.

Writing dialogue is just that, dialogue. Lee is not that good of a dialogue writer either.

stealing credit from the writers and comparing them to gophers or janitors.
fraud (specifically fraud on the court)
embezzlement
not paying his talent
failure to pay for properties he licensed.
straddles the line between original character do not steal and blatant copyright infringement.

how does he keep getting work?

>>79687652
Except if you read his own words, he's clearly saying Nicieza had little to do with the creation of Deadpool, and there's no way he would ever be listened to one way or the other about credits - Nicieza either met the criteria or he didn't, and that would all be determined by what the contracts said, not what some guy who happens to have signed one of them said.

So what Liefeld is saying is actually at odds with reality because he's claiming that "Nicieza had nothing much to do with creating Deadpool, and I had to fight to get him a credit". He's painting himself as the senior partner, and like most of his paintings it's an unrealistic scribble with a gradient background.

>>79687667
You think Bob Kane started out shitting on Bill Finger? He starts with the "Nicieza did nothing" stories now and in a couple of years when the next adaptation comes he'll be saying "I did it all, people have always said I did" and he'll point to what you're supposed to remember him saying this time as evidence.

It's weak spin, but that's what it is. He has absolutely no reason not to credit his writer, since his publisher at the time didn't think Rob was capable of writing a title and felt the need to babysit him.

>>79687769
He was fine for Thor and improved immensely on the FF in the last half. I find all his Spideman way too text heavy though.
His real genius was promotion, though. Read old FF letters pages; it's hard not to like the guy, he's a charming bastard.

>>79686899
>these days
HAHAH

>>79687810
Don't forget dangerous driving.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ9hjJabvaI

It's a shame he hasn't killed himself doing stupid things yet.

>>79686851
Fab blamed the agenda-pushing journalist and said no one ever tried to contact him.

>>79687871
damn he's almost as bad as pat lee...

>>79687838
>"Nicieza had nothing much to do with creating Deadpool, and I had to fight to get him a credit"
You should work on your reading comprehension friend. I have better se of my time than to explain to you what the fucking text said and generally "defending" fucking Liefeld.

Neither of their names were included at the end. Liefeld noticed that and asked the director to do something about it. He didn't ask for his name alone, he asked for both their names, no fuss. Before get into more dumb shit, that happened way before this interview. Stupid monkey cunt.

Don't even think abot replying to me before you get all this information into you thick ass faggot skull and process it fucking properly, you enormous leak of an ass milk. Jesus.

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Funny how he is pissy about who created a character which was a ripoff of Wolfman and Perez's Deathstroke and only really became his own character when Joe Kelly and Joe Mad took over.

>>79688098
>Joe Mad
It was McGuinness.

>>79687300
The courts believe Gaiman created Angela.

McFarlane was for creator rights until it came time to pay someone else.

>>79688989
I agree to a point, but he actually congratulatd Gaimen on the court win and was pretty classy about the loss.
I think it was more a difference of opinion on the importance of the artist vs the importance of the writer. He had public debates with PAD. Over that shit, even.,

>>79687705
>Neil Gaiman did create Angela.
Aside from designing her visual appearance and figuring out where she fits in the Spawn universe and her relationship with him and pretty much everything else that makes her a character

>>79688396
True. Well. Joe Mad was on the mini and McGuinness was the ongoing, right?

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>>79687622
>This is Bob Kane shit on Liefeld's part
Naw. Those two are nothing alike.
Just look at Rob back from the set of the Deadpool movie.

>>79687909
He also strikes me as a relatively chill guy who just does what he does and doesn't try and worry about politics and other shit.

>>79686988
Nicienza has some nice work on him, like C&D, he's just no autheur.

>>79689271
>I think it was more a difference of opinion on the importance of the artist vs the importance of the writer. He had public debates with PAD. Over that shit, even.,

I think it was Erik Larsen who had that argument with PAD, though McFarlane probably had similar arguments with PAD too.

Where is he being an asshole exactly? That looks like he is just telling exactly what happened.

Nicieza didnt create him he filled in the fucking word balloons. Liefeld designed the character and plotted the story but desu it is joe casey who made deadpool a big enough character to get a movie, just like miller for batman.

>>79692274
Wrong Joe anon

>>79692253
It comes off as though he was diminishing Nicieza completely, even though I get why he said it the way he did it.

Nicieza is very thankful to Rob, though; there was a Wizard interview back in the 90's where he was asked about his huge house, if it was "the house that X-Men built". Nicieza said it's really "the house that Rob Liefeld built."

>>79692274
>A HUR IT WAS THIS GUY NOT THAT GUY

Says the dipshit who doesn't know Joe Kelly.

>>79692293
>>79692325
Its midnight here don't bully

>>79692305
It only comes off like that because how how fucked peoples perception and priority given to the different roles in comics creation is.

>>79692096
Nah it was Todd Macfarlane. They made a big deal about it and everything back when it happened.

http://www.peterdavid.net/2010/09/02/after-the-great-debate/

Liefeld mentioned that the article was a hit piece and lo and behold

>>79692382

I think a big point is that Liefeld Deadpool is not the Deadpool that became a hit

>>79686988
But Cable and Deadpool was fucking great.

>>79692493
Liefelds deadpool was a decent hit in its own right but really the deadpool who is popular today owes 90% of his success to kelly and way

>>79692382
I think this wasn't new for Liefeld, in the 90's there was an ongoing debate between him and PAD over who created Cable. Liefeld felt that he was creator of Cable and that if anyone should be credited as co-creator it should be Bob Harras because he was the one who gave the directive to make a leader for the New Mutants.

PAD took offense at this because he felt Liefeld was diminishing Louise Simonson's role. He was also taking offense to Todd McFarlane's claim that he was the sole creator of Venom at the time, too. And it got into a huge debate which also ended up leading to PAD taking a shot at Liefeld by bringing up the swipes/homages that Liefeld did (few people know this, but the reason PAD brought the swipes up wasn't because he had an issue with swiping, he had an issue with Liefeld demanding credit for himself but not others. It wasn't like he was out to expose Greg Land or other swipers or something, he was trying to use it against Liefeld.) Liefeld I think feels that he did do the bulk of the work on creating Cable and by extension Deadpool, though.

>>79692560
This isn't true either.

Deadpool actually probably owes his popularity to Marvel vs. Capcom 3

>>79692561
I never liked Peter David's writing and that bit of text only hurt my opinion of him as a person.

>>79692493
>I think a big point is that Liefeld Deadpool is not the Deadpool that became a hit

No, it was a hit back when it was out, the same way Liefeld was popular back in the early 90's. Remember that the Image guys used to sell really well.

Now, Joe Kelly, Ed McGuinness and others gave the character his fan longevity, though. I think if not for them then Deadpool would've been a temporary hit then sidelined during the rest of the 90's only to be brought back in the 00's to be killed off.

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>>79686785
Yes, Rob Liefield is a piece of shit hack and wants to CASH IN on the Deadpool's pending success and explosion in exposure even more than faggot Waypool and Hot-Topic have done. He still can't draw feet and that article's bullshit justification of his horrible anatomy is just as retarded "hurdur people don't have imaginations"

Rob had jackshit to do with DP, while Nicienza wrote his magnum opus on C&D until Duggan came along.

>>79692615
That is the thing people often forget

Liefeld and McFarlane and Lee Marvel comics were orders of magnitude more popular than anything anyone has ever done with the properties they worked on moving forward.

>>79692599
>I never liked Peter David's writing
I think you may be the namefag with the worst taste in the entire board.

>>79692727
>>79692727

He's right about PAD tho, that dude gets overrated as fuck for some reason

>>79692727
Having bad taste in the eyes of /co/ is probably a good thing in the long run.

>>79687622
>he is straight up claiming full creative rights

He's not doing that at all though.

>>79692561
Wait, correction on this, PAD did have an issue with swiping, in which an artist takes from a bunch of sources and it doesn't look consistent. So yes, in that way he would have an issue with Greg Land.

What he didn't have a problem with was artists copying poses because it was commonplace (though he does point out if a writer did something similar, it'd be plagarism).

But he mainly brought it up to take a shot at Liefeld waiting to claim most if not all the credit for Cable.

>>79692777
hasn't read Supergirl, Young Justice and Aquaman

>>79693692
Or Hulk or Captain Marvel or Spectacular/Friendly Neighbor Spider-Man or Wolverine or

>>79692727
I read his Hulk, that was enough- too much for me.
His issues in the DC One Milkion Omni are aside from Balent's stuff, the lowpoint of what is otherwise an unusually good event.

>>79693692
>>79694012
I have no affiliation for characters in and of themselves so trying to sell me on his work through the characters won't actually work.

Him being a writer makes it more difficult, sure I have checked out random issues in storytimes but nothing has really caught.

I would compare him to Dan Jurgens they exist.

>swipe
Man, I remember when busting swipe was all the rage. And then I guess it became clear that nearly everyone fucking does it.
Simple nerdrage used to kind if fun to watch.

>>79694349
Nah, PAD has more distinctive style than Jurgens.